We need to take a stronger stance for sexual assault victims, gaming era.

[unknownspectator]

Update: I did not realize that people hate reading so TDR: I want to ban discussion of ubisoft forward event to show solidarity with sexual assault victims.


update 2: Microsoft needs to discussed here as well

Amid employee uproar, Microsoft is investigating sexual harassment claims overlooked by HR

“This thread has pulled the scab off a festering wound...A wide audience is now listening,” one Microsoft employee wrote in the emails reviewed by Quartz.

qz.com

Even if it interferes with our hobby. We failed with the THQNordic/ 8chan debacle and we're failing here as well. If we are to be a true progressive forum then we need a firm stance against places that support or foster a toxic environment. We should not be signal boosting or giving good PR to such environments ERA. I am, of course, talking about the allegations against Ubisoft's leadership stating that they have sexually assaulted and threaten to rape their employees. You can read them here:

[Liberation] Sexual harassment at Ubisoft: "We knew". (>100 cases from harassment to rape, half were known to HR, toxicity tolerated with results)

This seriously deserves another thread given it's newly reported and flying under the radar. Investigation piece by France newspaper, the Liberation - goes deeper into the deeply toxic culture at Ubisoft and how HR and leadership protects them, so long as they deliver the results...

www.resetera.com

and here:

Ubisoft leadership accused of violence and rape threats [up: 2 July: front page article in Libération, one of the biggest French newspapers]

By the founder of The Cookout: WTF... Edit: about Andie

www.resetera.com

I argue in this situation that we should not allow threads to talk about the Ubisoft forward event and instead reflect with how these victims were hurt by those in power. With allegations coming out against Ubisoft, we need to show the victims that we have their backs and we stand with them. I realize that you won't ban discussions of their games, I disagree with this stance, but we can at least do this. If we can't even come together to do this one thing then what good are we? If we refuse to do this then we are all talk, we'll be hypocrites. So, let's do this Era, let's stand with the victims and boycott Ubisoft Forward.

 

[Zodiark]

Ok

 

[RedPanda]

we can do both. we can support the victims, we can hold the abusers responsible and we can also support the thousands who have worked on these games and who knew nothing about the situation/put their heart and soul in their craft. justice is not punishing the whole company, but those who are responsible. i think its extremely unfair to fully boycat the whole event, i know people who work at Ubisoft and found out about what happened just like we did, out of the blue.

 

[unknownspectator]

we can do both. we can support the victims, we can hold the abusers responsible and we can also support the thousands who have worked on these games and who knew nothing about the situation/put their heart and soul in their craft. justice is not punishing the whole company, but those who are responsible. i think its extremely unfair to fully boycat the whole event, i know people who work at Ubisoft and found out about what happened just like we did, out of the blue.

Click to shrink...

you know what's also unfair? being sexually assaulted and threaten with rape while HR ignores those complaints. Nah, I ain't buying that bullshit.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I agree. I think banning discussion of a video game event on a video game forum isn't the right path. People are going to talk about Ubisoft. Besides, it's not like Ubisoft is the only company being called out on this. Discussion of half the industry would be banned on this forum if we did this.

I definitely think there is a way to take a stance and support victims without banning anyone from talking about the video games (which, as well, were not exclusively made by abusers).

 

[RedPanda]

you know what's also unfair? being sexually assaulted and threaten with rape while HR ignores those complaints. Nah, I ain't buying that bullshit.

Click to shrink...

and is agree with you. that is unfair, and every single person responsible should be punished, but there are also a lot of people who have done nothing wrong and have nothing to do with what has happened, do you want to punish those too?

 

[Waluigilicious]

Feels a bit weird being referred to collectively like that

 

[unknownspectator]

and is agree with you. that is unfair, and every single person responsible should be punished, but there are also a lot of people who have done nothing wrong and have nothing to do with what has happened, do you want to punish those too?

Click to shrink...

If they give a darn about their co-workers who were hurt by this, I think they would agree with my position.

 

[Forsaken82]

If they give a darn about their co-workers who were hurt by this, I think they would agree with my position.

Click to shrink...

Ahh the good ol' "If they were smart they can find another job somewhere else and wouldn't have to think twice about it" argument.

 

[RedPanda]

Ahh the good ol' "If they were smart they can find another job somewhere else and wouldn't have to think twice about it" argument.

Click to shrink...

yeah, this was what I tried to talk about. a lot of people at Ubisoft had to relocate from different countries. 2 friends of mine work in at Ubisoft Annecy and they left the Netherlands to go and live and work there, they cant simply just quite, they don't even speak french they didn't even know about what happened until this whole thing got out and second, these two people did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[Psrock1]

I'm a little confused to what you want era to do? You to banned the company? the games?

 

[unknownspectator]

Ahh the good ol' "If they were smart they can find another job somewhere else and wouldn't have to think twice about it" argument.

Click to shrink...

I didn't say that dullstone. If you bother to read the motherfucking thread, I only asked that we ban discussion of ubisoft forward and if the co-workers of the victims cared about them then they would understand the boycott of said event.

 

[HelloItsPulse]

Their stream is still going to have 100k+ viewers, and millions upon millions of views on the trailers afterward. I understand the sentiment, but I also think you're putting too much weight into how much power a boycott on this forum actually has.

It's completely okay for you to personally not want to support them, but I hope you're not going to side eye anyone that does. Ubisoft seems to be taking action on the people responsible for the terrible acts committed, there's not much else to be done honestly, except hope that they get better for the future.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

I don't think that's the right way to go, we should be allowed to discuss the unsettling amounts of sexual assault at Ubisoft as well as what their thousands of talented developers have worked on for the last few years. Boycotting should be a personal decision, and banning discussion of Ubisoft games by using a blanketed assessment of their conduct on a gaming form no less seems like an extreme measure to take.

 

[unknownspectator]

I don't think that's the right way to go, we should be allowed to discuss the unsettling amounts of sexual assault at Ubisoft as well as what their thousands of talented developers have worked on for the last few years. Boycotting should be a personal decision, and banning discussion of Ubisoft games by using a blanketed assessment of their conduct on a gaming form no less seems like an extreme measure to take.

Click to shrink...

I just want to ban discussion of ONE event. This is to show the assault victims in ubisoft and perhaps in other areas that ERA supports them. I'm not asking era to ban discussion of the games for good though I would certainly like to, it's for this one event.

 

[Rodrigues solitaire]

That month long pinned Uyghur thread should tell you how much the majority of ERA cares about human dignity.

 

[unknownspectator]

That month long pinned Uyghur thread should tell you how much the majority of ERA cares about human dignity.

Click to shrink...

just look at this thread, jesus.

 

[rsfour]

Ubisoft can fuck right off.

 

[7thFloor]

I don't think that's the right way to go, we should be allowed to discuss the unsettling amounts of sexual assault at Ubisoft as well as what their thousands of talented developers have worked on for the last few years. Boycotting should be a personal decision, and banning discussion of Ubisoft games by using a blanketed assessment of their conduct on a gaming form no less seems like an extreme measure to take.

Click to shrink...

I agree, I don't see how this approach is productive, we all know the discussion around this is going to continue, rightfully so, wherever there's a ubisoft thread. Even if you're "only here to discuss games" you will still have to see regular mentions of these sorts of things and question whether this is a company you want to support and that's how I think it should be, with moderation stepping in when users oppose or whine at that sort of discussion rather than engaging in it.
That's how I feel about banning them on the whole anyway, this one event, sure why not.

 

[fadedbones]

I support this, even if the possibility is farfetched.

At least a mod post detailing the situation with links to previous threads would be good. We should hold them accountable and provide visibility.

 

[pargonta]

I'm confident I can internalize the HR issues at the company and still consume their advertising such as the Forward event without betraying my morals or escaping my duty to speak out against things. I support whatever anyone feels they want to do though

 

[Deleted member 8166]

That month long pinned Uyghur thread should tell you how much the majority of ERA cares about human dignity.

Click to shrink...

Also the Harry Potter Game vote Thread...Gaming side just does not care

 

[Deleted member 8593]

It's not gonna happen. We don't need to outright ban any mention of Ubisoft but also don't have to give them free marketing by allowing decadent OTs. Apparently that is one step too far for some.

 

[m_dorian]

Prepare to be disappointed OP. When it comes to real life issues versus "muh gaemz" many people of this community are making the best possible excuses to justify their urge. It needs to happen at their own house to make them care.

This is when ERA is at their lowest point.

And the funny thing is that, these issues aside, this place is an oasis in a very toxic environment.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

I totally understand where you're coming from, OP. But if a video game forum bans discussion about every company with toxic culture and harassment, we might as well shut the whole thing down since the vast majority of companies will be banned.

 

[Deleted member 15395]

I get the sentiment but it seems a bit counterproductive to ban videogame discussion on a videogame forum. Might as well close the place down until further notice.

 

[TaySan]

I'm personally all for it. We don't need to give this event a platform here and i thinks it's more important we show solidarity towards victims of abuse.

It's not like you are banning the games from being discussed.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I won't be buying any of their games until they start changing. Fuck paying money for a company that supports sexual violence.

 

[spam musubi]

You know what, I'm down for this. The big companies can survive without free PR here Let's also go forward and apply the same to other major companies too.

Amid employee uproar, Microsoft is investigating sexual harassment claims overlooked by HR

“This thread has pulled the scab off a festering wound...A wide audience is now listening,” one Microsoft employee wrote in the emails reviewed by Quartz.

qz.com

This story has been brought up so many times on era, but no one has called for action towards it.

Another said that she had been called a "bitch" at work more than once, and found it was pervasive in the company. "We did a roundtables with the women when I was in Xbox core [team] & every woman, except for 1, had been called a bitch at work," the Microsoft employee wrote.


Another Microsoft employee alleged she was asked to sit on someone's lap while she was working as a "Microsoft Partner," a senior level person in the organization.

"As a Microsoft Partner, was asked to sit on someone's lap twice in one meeting in front of HR and other executives," she wrote. "I can assure you that nothing was done. I alone objected and cited Microsoft policy. The person said that he did not have to listen and repeated the request a second time. No one said anything."


Microsoft has faced scrutiny for sexual harassment in the recent past. A class action lawsuit filed in March 2018 alleged 238 cases of sexual harassment or discrimination between 2010 and 2016 were not taken seriously enough.

unknownspectator perhaps you can add this to the OP

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Most people on gaming side Era don't give a shit about stuff like this as long as they enjoy their video games. I agree OP, I think it's disgusting we give companies like that a platform.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

I just want to ban discussion of ONE event. This is to show the assault victims in ubisoft and perhaps in other areas that ERA supports them. I'm not asking era to ban discussion of the games for good though I would certainly like to, it's for this one event.

Click to shrink...

It's a good sentiment that I support, I won't be tuning into the event personally. But even if discussion is banned for that event specifically, I'm sure each individual game announced will receive its own thread with links to Ubi's YouTube channel when a lot of that discussion can be directed to a single thread.

I think a better approach to take would be to pin a message from the Resetera staff addressing sexual harassment at Ubisoft and asking all members to keep that misconduct in mind while considering supporting the publisher through the purchase of their games, and maybe a link to the current thread can be provided in the OP of the megathread for the event.

While we should always hold those accountable for their actions, I think it is also equally important to keep in mind why we are a gaming forum in the first place, which is to celebrate and discuss the hard work by the many developers throughout the industry who create the games we love, and I don't think Ubisoft devs on here for example would appreciate being coupled with the rampant misconduct within the company that they did not take part in.

 

[Ricky]

So we ban discussion about the Ubi Forward event but talking about their games is cool?'m legit confused.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

I won't be buying any of their games until they start changing. Fuck paying money for a company that supports sexual violence.

Click to shrink...

Yup. Same. I'm done buying Ubisoft games.

 

[z1ggy]

I´m legit suprised that this Ubisoft shit isnt getting more attention, even on Era.

 

[halfjoey]

What would it take to get MS, Sony, and Nintendo to freeze digital sales of Ubisoft games for a period of time?

 

[oni-link]

The industry clearly has issues all the over the place, with abuse, with misconduct, with crunch, with predatory practices, and what has happened at Ubisoft has been appalling but I don't think forcing Era to ban discussion of any video games company is going to do anything but annoy people and send them elsewhere online to discuss it

It's possible to both watch the presentation tomorrow and discuss how they have failed and need to improve

I'm 100% behind anyone who wants to skip the presentation, or boycott Ubisoft games for these reasons, I'm 100% behind that, and the same goes for people who will be skipping THQ Nordic games, or the new Harry Potter game, or anything for that matter. If you want to refuse to buy something or watch something because it conflicts with your morals, then more power to you

I just don't think asking or demanding the site follows suit is overall going to be a productive move. Firstly, it won't make any difference, as we're a drop in the ocean, 50k members and maybe only a few thousand that are active posters, so no one in the wider gaming world will notice or even care, and secondly, it turns the debate (like this thread) away from the issues of abuse, and towards how the site/users on the site should act, and I personally just don't see how taking oxygen away from the issues and putting in into the Era community/mods is productive. Finally, it means there is one less safe space online for people who actually want to discuss these games/presentations

If Era shuts down any conversation, then users are forced to go elsewhere and discuss these games where there is less robust moderation, which sucks

 

[Aerial51]

I've read an Article earlier (forgot by whom and where sadly) about how those Allegations coming out and people speaking about their bad Experiences has to transform into a Movement because if it only stays a Moment there is no Chance of real Change happening. Your suggestion of not talking about Ubisoft Forward really wouldn't help and imo would be extremly counterproductive. If we don't talk about Ubisoft at all, people will forget much sooner. I think what could be done is A) in the Ubisoft Forward Thread linking to all those other Threads about Sexual Harassment etc. and B) Create a Thread that should be pinned on the first page collecting every single Allegation and help to make this into a Movement. Basically you have to make more People aware that this is happening when you shut down everything Ubisoft this will also be forgotten much sooner.

 

[unknownspectator]

So we ban discussion about the Ubi Forward event but talking about their games is cool?'m legit confused.

Click to shrink...

not my call sadly.

also, spam musubi consider it done

 

[KoolAid]

What would it take to get MS, Sony, and Nintendo to freeze sales of Ubisoft games for a week?

Click to shrink...

Not even the CEO murdering a person in broad light would get them to do that

 

[Crayon]

Your tldr up there actually doesnt make it super clear that "Ubisoft Forward" is an upcoming event. I dont know that while im reading "ban discussion of ubisoft forward..." You could touch that up to make it more clear.

 

[Ambient]

I´m legit suprised that this Ubisoft shit isnt getting more attention, even on Era.

Click to shrink...

It seems sexual harassment, assault and toxic work environment don't matter if the company in question is producing games people are hyped about...

I actually got a little sick seeing people continue to hype up their presentation tomorrow and post in leak threads while this stuff is being uncovered. Disgusting.

 

[Lord Fanny]

It feels too much like a half measure to me. I don't really understand what not having a thread about the event will really signal if you still want to discuss games that will almost certainly be part of that event? Like you're still going to have individual threads about games that'll be announced under this logic, at least the way I understand what you're saying. Wouldn't it make more sense to just push for banning discussion for the company as a whole?

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

I find that the "we need to support all the employees by continuing to buy the games" is really just a "too big to fail" argument. Realistically, those employees are getting a pittance of your money, and the problem folks get to shrug off their complacency.

it sucks hard but eventually you do have to put your money where your mouth is. Besides, if shareholders see rampant mismanagement as the problem, it will fall on management, not employees... theoretically

if I am a shareholder and I see "management is rampant with Harassment, but everyone still buys the games" then my conclusion is that it's a PR issue, not a transformation issue.
I want to note, I don't support Ubisoft at all, I've never thought their games were incredible or worth my time and money, but I think you have to be willing to Take drastic measures to punish this rampant disease,

 

[unknownspectator]

It feels too much like a half measure to me. I don't really understand what not having a thread about the event will really signal if you still want to discuss games that will almost certainly be part of that event? Like you're still going to have individual threads about games that'll be announced under this logic, at least the way I understand what you're saying. Wouldn't it make more sense to just push for banning discussion for the company as a whole?

Click to shrink...

tried to push for that but the admins wouldn't allow it.

 

[beezer]

Come on, banning the discussion of Ubisoft stream on Era won't hurt any person at this game company, no need to fear for honest people working there. But it can show your stance and be an encouragement for victims. It is enough to be done. But OT for event is done already and views are mounting there, so

 

[Lord Fanny]

tried to push for that but the admins wouldn't allow it.

Click to shrink...

Ah, I see. Well, in that case I would have no issue with the event not being covered under these circumstances.

 

[Kemono]

It seems sexual harassment, assault and toxic work environment don't matter if the company in question is producing games people are hyped about...

I actually got a little sick seeing people continue to hype up their presentation tomorrow and post in leak threads while this stuff is being uncovered. Disgusting.

Click to shrink...

Most people simply don't care about anyone outside their own circle. Their on problems day to day are often too much for them already.

Problems in their entertainment is as abstract as people jumping to their deaths to not have to make another iPad. People read and understand the problem but at the end of the day it's just another nugget of shit on the big steaming pile the wade through every single day.

 

[Absolute]

It seems sexual harassment, assault and toxic work environment don't matter if the company in question is producing games people are hyped about...

I actually got a little sick seeing people continue to hype up their presentation tomorrow and post in leak threads while this stuff is being uncovered. Disgusting.

Click to shrink...

Plenty of mod posts to be found in those threads too. I'm probably gonna have to log off for the rest of the day.

 

[ReginaldXIV]

Why not take a more active stance and call them out in the thread before the show, during the show, and after the show? Passively banning discussion will allow people detach and forget far more quickly, and imo isn't a stronger stance as a community at all.

 

[Deleted member 13188]

The industry clearly has issues all the over the place, with abuse, with misconduct, with crunch, with predatory practices, and what has happened at Ubisoft has been appalling but I don't think forcing Era to ban discussion of any video games company is going to do anything but annoy people and send them elsewhere online to discuss it

It's possible to both watch the presentation tomorrow and discuss how they have failed and need to improve

I'm 100% behind anyone who wants to skip the presentation, or boycott Ubisoft games for these reasons, I'm 100% behind that, and the same goes for people who will be skipping THQ Nordic games, or the new Harry Potter game, or anything for that matter. If you want to refuse to buy something or watch something because it conflicts with your morals, then more power to you

I just don't think asking or demanding the site follows suit is overall going to be a productive move. Firstly, it won't make any difference, as we're a drop in the ocean, 50k members and maybe only a few thousand that are active posters, so no one in the wider gaming world will notice or even care, and secondly, it turns the debate (like this thread) away from the issues of abuse, and towards how the site/users on the site should act, and I personally just don't see how taking oxygen away from the issues and putting into into the Era community/mods is productive. Finally, it means there is one less safe space online for people who actually want to discuss these games/presentations

If Era shuts down any conversation, then users are forced to go elsewhere and discuss these games where there is less robust moderation, which sucks

Click to shrink...

This is where I'm at too. Even if I skip Cyberpunk for example I still wouldn't want discussion on the game stopped here. I'm not comfortable with outright bans on anything tbh.