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laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Some on ERA are disappointed that Nintendo's output on the Switch isn't at the quantity that they wanted, and feel that Nintendo should invest in more studios and acquisitions. However, that's actually not going to do much to fix anything, not only because you're solving a problem that doesn't exist, but because we already have a good case study as to why that isn't an automatic fix to any supposed "drought" problems.

We need to look no further than Microsoft. You know, it's amazing, even after 3 years of hyping up Xbox Game Studios, buying developers, and even merging with a whole third party publisher, Microsoft still hasn't produced sufficient results from their investments. Now to be fair, Game development is a lengthy process, so we won't see the fruits of their labor pay off until well into the X|S' life. But we're a month a way from the next generation of Xbox being released, and Microsoft doesn't even have a single original game ready for launch, just ports of games already available on Xbox One, and they're not even that old. Its biggest first party launch title (Halo Infinite), just got delayed indefinitely after leaks surrounding tons of development problems. Leaving the Xbox Next gen, with just cross-gen and multiplatform titles, and NO big holiday release. Most of the games they revealed for the next generation, either barely have gameplay, aren't coming until next year or later, or both.

At least Nintendo has 2 major original titles this Holiday season. At least Sony is launching the PS5 with SOME original first party titles. Microsoft doesn't even have that. And don't you come to me and say "but Microsoft doesn't need first party games, they have all this third party support!" Well its not like the Switch is lacking in third party titles either. In fact, with the sheer amount of games released for it regularly, you'd be hard pressed to NOT find something to play on the Switch. Not to mention, nobody buys consoles strictly for third party games, a lot of the purchasing decisions are based on exclusives and first party titles too. Again, things can all change going forward, but I don't expect it to happen so soon.

The point is, "buying more studios" isn't going to result in this "50 game a year" output you guys seem to desperately want so badly. Game Development is still a lengthy process, and it will still take years for those investments to pay off. Not to mention, overseeing all those developers requires a really good leadership at the top, which Nintendo and Sony have been famous for, while Microsoft has spent years trying to figure out how to manage a team. So next time you bitch about Nintendo not having this magical output that you keep craving, just remember... At least they're not Microsoft. Any company that can put out nearly 20 games every year is still leagues beyond what Microsoft has been able to put out in the past 3 years alone.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,324
This thread seems premature considering microsoft is still integrating studios and won't feel the fruits of their acquisitions until 2022/23.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
We need to look no further than Microsoft. You know, it's amazing, even after 3 years of hyping up Xbox Game Studios, buying developers, and even merging with a whole third party publisher, Microsoft still hasn't produced sufficient results from their investments. Now to be fair, Game development is a lengthy process, so we won't see the fruits of their labor pay off until well into the X|S' life.

You kind of make your point and then undermine it imminently with this statement

They have started buying studios from what, 2018? With some only being acquired as recently as a few months ago

If in 3 years time, they still struggle to push out great first party games, you might have a point
 

Ukumio

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,415
Australia
Microsoft put out 10 games this year. Last year they out two. I'm pretty sure Microsoft no longer has a drought problem after buying studios.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
This thread seems premature considering microsoft is still integrating studios and won't feel the fruits of their acquisitions until 2022/23.
And I mentioned that, which is why I said that just "buying more studios" isn't a solution in and of itself. you still need time, and good management for it to pay off.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,324
And I mentioned that, which is why I said that just "buying more studios" isn't a solution in and of itself. you still need time, and good management for it to pay off.
So your argument is actually "buying more studios is not worth it until integration is complete"?
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,947
MS are going to do just fine, as are Sony and Nintendo.

MS are building for the long term and as you say, things can't change overnight.

There is more than enough content on Series X to keep anyone busy!
 

Mobu

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
5,932
Founding studios is one thing but i hope Nintendo doesnt buy shit, bye PC ports otherwise
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
And I mentioned that, which is why I said that just "buying more studios" isn't a solution in and of itself. you still need time, and good management for it to pay off.

But you've made your conclusion after only 1 of those 3 has had a chance to happen

They could, if given the time you've not afforded them, manage the shit out of these studios and have a stellar first party pipeline by 2022 while Nintendo struggles on
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
If in 3 years time, they still struggle to push out great first party games, you might have a point
That also proves my case. Who's to say in 3 years, Microsoft is still struggling with a consistent release lineup of games? That may be the case, that may not be. It's hard to say "buy more studios" is an answer when we don't even know if that will work for Microsoft.
 

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
They started to announce new acquisitions in June of 2018. Development takes time, you can't make this comparison when almost none of the studios have released anything that wasn't in development prior to Microsoft acquiring them, particularly when the comparison is with some of the most veteran and accomplished studios ever.

It will take easily 5 years until we can tell how good MS's strategy really is. Until then, they had some failures but also they released quite a few excellent games this year and are working on some very ambitious games. Just like Nintendo's output on Switch, it takes time.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
I would say it is too eraly to say how and if Microsoft performs in terms of thrid parties. As you said, it takes time to develop games and what games came out from these studios that Microsoft bought, since they own them? You could count them on one hand.

And to everyone saying Nintendo doesn't have enough studios/games, because there are droughts:
Nintendo is still publishing multiple games per year, every year. They only have droughts, if you don't look at Indies and only count the lacking 3rd party AAA support. Something Sony and Microsoft habe, hence why you don't really feel a drought there. And yes, I would like them to invest more in Retro or let NST do more than just Minigames but overall, they publish around 10 games a year
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,770
Now to be fair, Game development is a lengthy process
Which is exactly why this thread is premature and makes no sense. Now, if in 3 years Xbox still has a problem putting out a consistent stream of games, you might have a point.
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
What's wrong with Nintendo's output? Microsoft also clearly outlined a strategy and vision in the past couple years and we are seeing the moves to realize it happen.

But as you said things take time. Microsoft now has the leadership in place to execute their vision. But that won't happen overnight, as you also said.

I don't really get your point here.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
So your argument is actually "buying more studios is not worth it until integration is complete"?
What I'm saying is that absorbing all these developers means nothing, if management at the top isn't utilizing them to their fullest. Microsoft can buy all the studios in the world. But if they don't have good leadership in the software division, then what's the point?
 

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
That also proves my case. Who's to say in 3 years, Microsoft is still struggling with a consistent release lineup of games? That may be the case, that may not be. It's hard to say "buy more studios" is an answer when we don't even know if that will work for Microsoft.
It's not an answer because we don't even know what those studios would be. Depending on the acquisition it could be brilliant or really bad, or somewhere in between.

Also, Nintendo and Xbox or Microsoft are very different companies, different things can easily be the right answer for each.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
IMO, Microsoft & Sony have relied more on 3rd party support to sell their platforms more so than Nintendo do.
 

Munroe

Member
May 17, 2019
392
Microsoft understands they've had low output from their first party studios which is why they've been playing catch up and making all of these investments, and as if you've already mentioned, game development takes time. It's not as if they can make an acquisition and immediately get a game from it, but there are games in the pipeline, there's a couple out this year and more the next couple of years.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,110
And I mentioned that, which is why I said that just "buying more studios" isn't a solution in and of itself. you still need time, and good management for it to pay off.
Of course those new studios need time to get the ball rolling. There's no shortcut for that. You won't be able to fully judge these acquisitions before 2024 or so.

What I'm saying is that absorbing all these developers means nothing, if management at the top isn't utilizing them to their fullest. Microsoft can buy all the studios in the world. But if they don't have good leadership in the software division, then what's the point?
Again, can't judge that yet.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
This is a weirdly defensive and just like maybe 2 years premature thread.
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Who on Era is saying that Nintendo should buy more studios? Nintendo doesn't even own HAL Laboratories or Intelligent Systems.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
That also proves my case. Who's to say in 3 years, Microsoft is still struggling with a consistent release lineup of games? That may be the case, that may not be. It's hard to say "buy more studios" is an answer when we don't even know if that will work for Microsoft.

It doesn't prove your point

It's far too early to tell if Microsofts strategy will pay off, but it looks promising. Compared to what they had last gen, they will almost certainly have more first party output this generation

I'm not saying Nintendo need to buy more studios, just it's a weird take to use Microsoft as a cautionary tale when a) they've 20% into the implementation of their strategy, and b) most people think it's a good strategy
 

nofriendo

Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,038
This is one of the dumber threads I have seen here in a while.

Come back in 3 to 5 years and then lets look again but creating a thread to say that " Game development is a lengthy process" then giving out about the short term...boy that's a hot dumb take.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,324
What I'm saying is that absorbing all these developers means nothing, if management at the top isn't utilizing them to their fullest. Microsoft can buy all the studios in the world. But if they don't have good leadership in the software division, then what's the point?
Sure but your argument of poor management doesn't really seem right when they just released 2 games with >85 metacritic in the past 90 days.
 
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laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
It's far too early to tell if Microsofts strategy will pay off, but it looks promising. Compared to what they had last gen, they will almost certainly have more first party output this generation
It does look better for sure. But still, you'd think they'd have SOMETHING more substantial than Xbox One ports ready for launch.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,070
AAA games aren't made overnight. Give it a few years time, we're probably going to see a wave of Microsoft games.

tenor.gif
 

Kyussons

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,414
Still to early to talk about MS studios output, results will show in a few years.

Anyways, I think that, more than lacking in 1st party studios, what Nintendo needs is to do is to diversify the use of dormant IPs a little bit, yeah I know that Pokemon, animal crossing... all these IPs have huge mass market appeal and sell tons of units but we are missing more niche/"hardcore" games like F-Zero, Mario Strikers, Metroid...
 
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Kida

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,899
Less than 25% of the purchased studios have even released a game published by Microsoft and even fewer have developed a game beginning to end under Microsoft. This thread is incredibly premature as any kind of assessment on how Microsoft's acquisitions are going and what it means for the industry. Maybe once all 23 studios have released a MS-published game we'll be able to tell.
 

ravnelis

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jan 1, 2018
651
It's a weird take. I think it's far too early to tell. I think that they have an incredible pool of talent at their disposal currently. Bethesda acquisition alone will help them immensely in the long term. Some really, really heavy hitting IPs will be now associated with Xbox.

Since I'm a huge fan of Prey, Fallout AND Elder Scrolls, it made Xbox a must have for me. Sure, it's possible that those games will come out on PS5 as well, which is also a must have for me, but I don't want to risk it.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Hypothetical situation:

Nintendo buy Platinum in Jan 2021

Poster makes a thread in June 2021 "Platinum have made zero games for Nintendo so far, and for 2021 0 Platinum exclusives are listed for release, therefore this was a poor move by Nintendo and has not paid off at all"
 
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OP
laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Anyways, I think that more than lacking in 1st party studios what Nintendo needs is to diversify the use of dormant IPs a little bit, yeah I know that Pokemon, animal crossing... all these IPs have huge mass market appeal and sell tons of units but we are missing more niche/"hardcore" games like F-Zero, Mario Strikers, Metroid...
That's not much of an issue either. Nintendo already has new IP and surprise IP revivals like Famicom Detective Club coming to Switch.
 

Deleted member 31092

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
10,783
Nintendo needs to keep developing their relationship with external developers.

Just look at Koei Tecmo: all their own titles are now developed for Switch and they also have a lot of exclusive titles (Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Age of Calamity, Buddy Mission: BOND)
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
The way I see it, it's not about increasing first party production; but preserving support of Switch and Nintendo platforms.

We've seen several studios that made games for the Switch get swallowed up, and now theyre never going to produce content for it again. Bethesda in particular is a massive blow as they were a massive supporter of the system, and now Nintendo won't be getting future Dooms, Quakes, Elder Scrolls, Wolfensteins and everything inbetween.

If Square was bought by Sony or Microsoft, that'd be an even larger blow to them. So I think there is merit in investing in some strategic aquisitions.
 

Bugalugs214

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
1,686
Psst, they've had Ori WoTw, Wasteland 3, Minecraft dungeons, Tell me why and MS flight Sim so far this year. What exactly are you expecting? ( I fully expect you to move goalposts here)
And 50% of the studios they've bought in the last 2 years? What exactly do you expect them to have games up already?( Insert goalpost move here too)
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,375
Zenimax won't even be official for like 6 more months. In 2022 no one will say that this strategy didn't pay off. You can say it's not a short term solution, but it's clearly going to be one that works for them in the long term.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
Hypothetical situation:

Nintendo buy Platinum in Jan 2021

Poster makes a thread in June 2021 "Platinum have made zero games for Nintendo so far, and for 2021 0 Platinum exclusives are listed for release, therefore this was a poor move by Nintendo and has not paid off at all"
Lol. Don't worry you'll get the usual "Nintendo should only work with third party devs" until those third party devs leave Nintendo. Nintendo should be building more. They got like 5 full development studios.

Sony made the right move in buying Insomniac even though they've basically been making games for Sony and very close to them.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
It does look better for sure. But still, you'd think they'd have SOMETHING more substantial than Xbox One ports ready for launch.

It's not ideal, but you're looking at the launch window and concluding that because of that, a long term, multi year strategy doesn't work

When Microsoft purchased Bethesda it wasn't to get exclusives out for the launch window, it's to grow the brand and make their ecosystem more appealing over time

Halo being delayed sucks, might be due to bad management, and probably wasn't helped by COVID, but that doesn't mean their long term plans won't pan out

I don't know why you bring Nintendo into this either, just because this might work for MS, that doesn't mean it will be the best plan for Nintendo. Nintendo has always done it's own thing and generally tends to be fine
 
OP
OP
laziboi

laziboi

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2019
1,918
Your Anus
Lol. Don't worry you'll get the usual "Nintendo should only work with third party devs" until those third party devs leave Nintendo. Nintendo should be building more. They got like 5 full development studios.

They have over a dozen teams working on games from in-house and external developers, roughly the same as SIE and XGS. Nintendo is just fine.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,186
We'll talk again in 2 and in 4 years.

Also, Microsoft has released more than 10 games this year, many of them being extremely good. This is already an early fruit of their increased investment into gaming. And then the opening post already contradicts itself... Anyway.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
This feels like thinly disguised console warring, to be honest.

Especially as the OP clearly understands that Game development takes time.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
The way I see it, it's not about increasing first party production; but preserving support of Switch and Nintendo platforms.

We've seen several studios that made games for the Switch get swallowed up, and now theyre never going to produce content for it again. Bethesda in particular is a massive blow as they were a massive supporter of the system, and now Nintendo won't be getting future Dooms, Quakes, Elder Scrolls, Wolfensteins and everything inbetween.

If Square was bought by Sony or Microsoft, that'd be an even larger blow to them. So I think there is merit in investing in some strategic acquisitions.

Buying bigger 3rd party studios is being desperate. There isn't even a guarantee that they'll have the same talent of people later on.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,146
Hypothetical situation:

Nintendo buy Platinum in Jan 2021

Poster makes a thread in June 2021 "Platinum have made zero games for Nintendo so far, and for 2021 0 Platinum exclusives are listed for release, therefore this was a poor move by Nintendo and has not paid off at all"

It's insane how people expect AAA games from all the studios MS bought when ALL OF THEM were working on projects with other companies and they had to fullfil the contracts they signed. It's not even 2 years after the first acquisitions and they started with the doom and gloom.
 

Ashhong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,619
And I mentioned that, which is why I said that just "buying more studios" isn't a solution in and of itself. you still need time, and good management for it to pay off.

I don't think anybody would disagree with you. They want more Nintendo studios to be able to produce more games in the future. Obviously there is no solution to magically make more first party games to appear
 
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