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Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES IN AMERICA, BUT ABOUT THE GENERAL TREND IN THE UK AND US TOWARDS LOW YOUTH TURNOUT IN ELECTIONS

So yesterday saw another instance where a heavily progressive left-wing political entity failed to gain ground against a more right-leaning one due to, in part, the failure of "young people" to "come out and vote." Since then we've seen many, many examples of people explicitly blaming young people for the outcome, and the same has happened many, many times before and will very likely happen in the future as well. So much of the discussion surrounding Bernie, Corbyn, etc and their respective failures stems from how they "appealed too much to younger people when young people just don't vote." It's almost a guaranteed pattern at this point, and I don't really feel the need to go into it any further because of that.

However, I feel that the conclusions being made are ones that are at best unhelpful and at worst utterly condescending and actively harmful. When otherwise left-wing people state that "young people don't vote" I honestly feel that they've chosen to stand in the way of progress simply because they've decided that people under a certain age are a lost cause. That's something that I feel needs to be called out and (more importantly) rectified by the powers-that-be if we're ever going to see real progress.

Below I'll go through a number of reasons for why I believe that the belief system behind "young people just don't vote," is fundamentally flawed from both a logical and contextual perspective:

1) The notion that young apathy is due to inherent laziness is, itself, an example of laziness
When a candidate or party fails to garner support for practically any other demographic the conclusion from most good people (i.e. not racists who think PoC are 'low information voters' or sexists who think women can't think for themselves) is that they saw some level of failure when it came to reaching that demographic. However when it comes to young people the situation very much seems to be reversed. I have seen many people, including on this site, who can acknowledge systemic factors when it comes to other demographics but fall completely into the line of thinking that paints young people out to be inherently lazy, apathetic and dumb.

I think it's obvious what the problem is here. There is so little discussion as to why young people don't vote because people simply believe that young people are the same as older people at best and worthless at worst. No attention is placed on the many, many things that may factor in to low young voter turnout including, but not limited to:
- The education system not focusing at all on one's duties to their nation, leaving people to learn that over time
- Apathy from a political system that does nothing to help them at best and actively fucks them over at worst (see point 2)
- Logistical problems surrounding how millions of 18-25 year olds can find the time out of their education and low-wage jobs to get out and vote
- The heavy influencing factor of adults who can project their own apathy onto their children
- And likely many more. I don't know, this ain't a University paper so don't @ me

2) For many young people today the entire political system, both left and right-wing, represents an existential threat to their very lives, and this has a heavy potential to create apathy for the options we're given
Yes, this point is dramatic, but honestly this is how a lot of us young folk are feeling this, and that directly leads to voter apathy when presented with the current political system. Unlike practically all of the generations before us we are, by default, living on borrowed time; so much of us know it even if we don't actively acknowledge it. The climate crisis will be the defining event of our lives, and that will be true no matter what kind of person you are. As such, the fact that what the system has given us in the past decade is so exceedingly god-awful when combating this fact of life has, in my eyes, led to an increase in general apathy with the entire system.

To put it into perspective: in the US it has been 8 years since a left-wing political candidate got into power. In the UK it has been even longer. In those two countries alone that represents millions of new potential voters who see a system that has done nothing to help them or their futures. For me personally I've voted 3 times since I turned 18, and those 3 times have seen Brexit, a Tory Majority, and now a Tory majority that will last at least a decade. Before that I became politically conscious at a time where a major left-wing party completely betrayed my generation by hiking up tuition fees when they said they'd never support such a thing. Sure, I could have done more, probably much more, but I'm only one person and I cannot fight systemic issues by myself. It's made it hard for me to get excited about politics any more, so I can imagine that the impact must be ten-fold for those less politically active than me.

And before you say it: Yes, I know this is in part due to young people "just not voting." However you have to consider why this is the case and, more importantly, why the political hegemony of today might not want that to not be the case, and that leads me on to:

3) Young people voting in large numbers is an existential threat to the very establishment that runs our political systems
If the current situation was swapped and young people were the dominant political group then the landscape today would be incredibly different. Trump wouldn't have won, Brexit wouldn't be happening, Corbyn would be Prime Minister and Biden wouldn't be front-runner for the Democratic nomination. There are two commonalities when it comes to young people: They have a low turnout, and they are much more progressive over all than their older counterparts. That extends to most every kind of demographic, with even the typically majority-conservative white vote turning much more liberal the younger one goes.

One has to ask then, whether people actually believe that the currently-dominant establishment that boosts capital over all would ever want young people to "just vote,"? They, like with countless other examples of both overt and covert voter suppression throughout history, see the young demographic as an existential threat to their movement. The right-wing doesn't want PoC to vote, the left-wing would love it if white Christians just decided to stay home, and the leaders of both want nothing more than for young people to "just not vote."

Now I don't expect everyone to agree with me here, but I felt that I had to get my voice out there to at least try and quell some of the rhetoric that I've been seeing on here recently. Frankly I feel that if we ever want to see true progress then we need to consider young people as a demographic that has the potential to be a massive force for change, and instead of condescendingly 'blaming' young people and writing them off as lazy good-for-nothings we need to try and harness that potential and move towards something greater.

So to round things up I'd just like to say:

OK Boomers
 
Last edited:

Barzul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
The thing is young people not voting cuts across every racial demographic. Even young people with more flexibility to vote than some really disenfranchised groups still don't turn. At this point it's my opinion that younger voters simply haven't internalized the consequences of not voting. It's one thing to hear it talked about and another thing to live and endure through it. The experience of the latter reminds you of the true cost of not voting.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,544
I think what needs to happen to improve youth turnout is lowering the voting age to 16 and making any elections that happen during the school year part of the curriculum.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
Voter registration should be automatic when you get your license and and voting days should be state holidays
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,472
The idea that young people don't have time is a bit weird to me given that I don't think I've ever had more free time in my life (Barring infancy of course) than when I was in college. Many colleges also provide on campus voting opportunities, including early voting. Now granted not every young person is in college, but a very large percent is, especially compared to actual turn out of young people in elections
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Young people are often not particularly politically aware. I had to remind everyone I know that the primary was this week, and even had to carefully explain to one of them what a primary even is because they didn't know. None of this shit is taught in schools and its relevance to our lives is never made clear unless you are already a politically engaged individual actively seeking out new information.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,244
None of these points are terribly convincing. Just more excuses for what is inexcusable at this point. Young people keep complaining that they want a candidate they can be excited to vote for. They had that candidate in Bernie Sanders.

If Black people, who are a more disenfranchised group than young people in general, could find the time and the will to come out and vote, why can't young people? You had weeks of early voting.
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
It's hard to argue with the exit polls showing that the 18-29 demographic consisted of 13% of the voters yesterday. If you suffer from apathy while Trump has been destroying democracy, then you will get what you deserve.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,022
I don't know if this is relevant but it's insane to me that you don't vote on Weekends in general, I don't live in the states but over here everything like that is on Sundays.

Also over here EVERYONE that's 18 or up has to have an ID and that's what you use to vote, there is no registration nonsense, every adult in my country just... shows their ID.
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,772
I think it's obvious what the problem is here. There is so little discussion as to why young people don't vote because people simply believe that young people are the same as older people at best and worthless at worst. No attention is placed on the many, many things that may factor in to low young voter turnout including, but not limited to:

I don't think the prevailing thought is of laziness (maybe among boomers, I guess), but more the apathy/lack of concern on what voting represents in terms of power (Supreme Court and other federal judges, pushing bills through congress, setting policy with the Presidency, etc...) - which isn't helped by the increasing polarization of the American political system, and the accompanying 'us or them' mentality that comes with it.

2) For many young people today the entire political system, both left and right-wing, represents an existential threat to their very lives, and this has a heavy potential to create apathy for the options we're given
Yes, this point is dramatic, but honestly this is how a lot of us young folk are feeling this, and that directly leads to voter apathy when presented with the current political system. Unlike practically all of the generations before us we are, by default, living on borrowed time; so much of us know it even if we don't actively acknowledge it. The climate crisis will be the defining event of our lives, and that will be true no matter what kind of person you are. As such, the fact that what the system has given us in the past decade is so exceedingly god-awful when combating this fact of life has, in my eyes, led to an increase in general apathy with the entire system.

I think the more concerning part of this statement is....if your lives/livelihood are threatened, and you DON'T vote......what does that say about our society, or what's become of the life of the average young voter?

But yes, for sure there needs to be SOME methodology of getting younger voters into the voting blocks and make their voices heard.

AoC, among others, is (hopefully) leading a new 'younger' generation of politicians (IMO one of the reasons younger people don't care about politics is that most US politicians are in their 40s, or more likely, 50+)

It's one thing to hear it talked about and another thing to live and endure through it. The experience of the latter reminds you of the true cost of not voting.

Yeah, I really do think this is a big part - 'it doesn't affect me' is a large reason for apathy...until if actually DOES affect you.

The crazy part is that young voters, collectively, would be a pretty damn large voting bloc....but rarely has a US politician managed to take advantage of this without it coming off as pandering/desperation (such as the memes Team Hillary tried in 2016, and more recently, Bloomberg)

IMO this is also a big issue with midterms - if things haven't been 'so bad', things get complacent...followed by a swing in voters from 'the other side'.

Voter registration should be automatic and mandatory and voting days should be state holidays

Dunno about the former (certain elements will SCREAM about freedom of choice), but absolutely agree with the latter.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
I'm 26. We had a candidate who promised to fucking pay student loans. And my generation still failed to turn up.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Reminder that making election day a holiday does nothing for the tens of millions of people who work part-time/hourly jobs without benefits who do not get holidays off.

It only makes it easier to vote for the demographic that was already most likely to vote -- middle-class people working salaried jobs.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
None of these points are terribly convincing. Just more excuses for what is inexcusable at this point. Young people keep complaining that they want a candidate they can be excited to vote for. They had that candidate in Bernie Sanders.

If Black people, who are a more disenfranchised group than young people in general, could find the time and the will to come out and vote, why can't young people? You had weeks of early voting.

This x1000
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
We seriously need to make the days we vote national holidays. It won't completely solve the problem but it'll be easier on a lot more people. Voting also needs to be even easier for the utmost lazy.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
Didn't young people vote in bigger numbers, but they were outnumbered by an even bigger increase in boomers?
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
You know they posted these things when I was young too.

That was hmmmm.... 15 years ago?
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,022
I was not expecting to see someone advocate for fucking voter ID requirements.

I'm just saying that it's how it works in my country, I have no idea if that's okay or not. I'm not from the USA.

We all just have the ID, it's kind of a given that every adult has one, it's also free and super painless to get or replace if lost.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,472
Reminder that making election day a holiday does nothing for the tens of millions of people who work part-time/hourly jobs without benefits who do not get holidays off.

It only makes it easier to vote for the demographic that was already most likely to vote -- middle-class people working salaried jobs.
Reminds me that I honestly don't understand why anyone with the option for early or mail in voting would choose to vote on the day of the election instead unless that was literally the only time they could get to a polling place. Honestly what should be done is putting more emphasis on an election period rather than a single election day
 

Banderdash

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,468
Australia
Reminder that making election day a holiday does nothing for the tens of millions of people who work part-time/hourly jobs without benefits who do not get holidays off.

It only makes it easier to vote for the demographic that was already most likely to vote -- middle-class people working salaried jobs.

It means that people don't all try and vote in a 2 hour window... thereby reducing wait times.



I don't get, given how there's always an issue with the computers, or voters not understanding how to vote, or fears of hacking, or interference... how are countries not on paper voting and counting.
 
Mar 3, 2019
1,831
old people will continue to dictate policy and politics as long as young people can't be bothered to vote. You don't, all the bad things the other candidate does is on you.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
Young people, by and large, have no prospects, hopes, or futures. The fact we see any of them at all vote astounds me.

It's like partaking in something that from the get go is being presented as something that can change their lives but will absolutely not.
 
OP
OP
Plum

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
People, this ain't just about the Primaries.

The thing is young people not voting cuts across every racial demographic. Even young people with more flexibility to vote than some really disenfranchised groups still don't turn. At this point it's my opinion that younger voters simply haven't internalized the consequences of not voting. It's one thing to hear it talked about and another thing to live and endure through it. The experience of the latter reminds you of the true cost of not voting.

Both of the commonalities I mentioned cut across every racial demographic. For instance Biden won so heavily primarily because older black voters came out to vote for him. That's not making any judgements on that demographic, of course, but it definitely holds true that younger black voters could have helped create a very different outcome.

As for experience, I don't really agree there. With how incredibly hard it is to avoid the world's problems nowadays I think that many young people, even if they haven't had any literal effects, have experienced the effects of 'not voting' (so to say). Like I said in my post I had to pay tens of thousands more than people born just a few years before me because, in part, I wasn't able to vote against the Tory/Lib-Dem coalition.

None of these points are terribly convincing. Just more excuses for what is inexcusable at this point. Young people keep complaining that they want a candidate they can be excited to vote for. They had that candidate in Bernie Sanders.

If Black people, who are a more disenfranchised group than young people in general, could find the time and the will to come out and vote, why can't young people? You had weeks of early voting.
It's hard to argue with the exit polls showing that the 18-29 demographic consisted of 13% of the voters yesterday. If you suffer from apathy while Trump has been destroying democracy, then you will get what you deserve.

This is the kind of rhetoric I'm calling out here, the notion that because young people didn't "fall in line" and turn out for *insert old progressive-but-with-problems-white-dude-who-likely-couldn't-get-many-of-his-policies-enacted-anyway-here* they're a complete lost cause who 'deserves' what they get. It's the "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" line of thinking with a heavy dose of 'we don't actually hold any empathy for you, we just care about using you for power.'
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
There are significant factors, primarily voter suppression. However candidate selection is not a valid reason to not vote. There were a fairly wide range of candidates to choose from.

There are some valid reasons for the low percentage of young voters, but a significant amount of the reason for the low percentage is that young people really would rather just post opinions on Twitter and then do nothing.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,154
It occurs to me that I, an ardent socialist, was a libertarian when I was 18. I didn't vote in 2008, which was the first election I could have voted in.

Not even I can tell you why.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Why do people insist that election day should be a holiday? Most cities have like two weeks of early voting. People aren't just going to vote because they have the day off......they just don't want to.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
It is hard to defend younger voters when different policies are presented that in theory address them directly.


It isn't frequent but across Kennedy, McGovern, Dean and now Sanders very different solutions to their problems were presented and they were tailored made to the problems specific to their time period.


It is very difficult to get people under the age of 30 to vote. Even 30 to 35 is still problematic.


I personally won't give up on appealing to younger voters because their issues should be addressed but I would be very cautious in assuming I understand what would compel them to vote.
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
Both of the commonalities I mentioned cut across every racial demographic. For instance Biden won so heavily primarily because older black voters came out to vote for him. That's not making any judgements on that demographic, but it definitely holds true.




This is the kind of rhetoric I'm calling out here, the notion that because young people didn't "fall in line" and turn out for *insert old progressive-but-with-problems-white-dude-who-likely-couldn't-get-many-of-his-policies-enacted-anyway-here* they're a complete lost cause who 'deserves' what they get. It's the "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" line of thinking with a heavy dose of 'we don't actually hold any empathy for you, we just care about using you for power.'

I'm sorry, are you saying that none of the candidates inspired young people enough to go vote and thus they are happy with Trump?
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
There was actually really good turnout from young people in several states.

Massachusetts and Virginia had very high youth turnout yesterday, but it was part of the larger trend of record turnout for non-youth voters as well, and as part of that result, Biden won convincingly and surprisingly in both states.

Anybody blaming yesterday's primary result on young people is wrong though. It's not that young people "didn't turn out" it's that Biden built the stronger coalition of voters on super Tuesday. He did jbetter in demographics that he wasn't supposed to do as well in. And Sanders did not do as well in demographics that he expected to do very well in.

I don't think that youth apathy is due to laziness at all though. I think there's more important things in a young persons life, day to day, than the machinations of government. It's like expecting young people to save for retirement. Of course saving for retirement when you're 18 or 20 is the time when you can make the biggest impact on future savings by putting the smallest investment down. But it's difficult for anybody to prioritize income when they're 70 versus cash in their pocket when they're 20. Sure rationally it makes the most sense to be engaged at that age with something like retirement -- the biggest return on the smallest investment -- but part of being young is having the freedom to be irrational. I don't think it's laziness, not when I was 20 and not for today's 20 year olds.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,944
Ultimately young people are naturally more nihilistic/short-sighted and while obviously education and improving access will improve their voting rate, they will never consistently vote on par with older generations. You simply can't inherently recognize the value in participating in civic life, whether it's through voting or any other activity, until after you've already experienced some of the effects of those activities for yourself, whether positive or negative, and by the time the group as a whole realizes that they don't really qualify as young any more.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The thing is young people not voting cuts across every racial demographic. Even young people with more flexibility to vote than some really disenfranchised groups still don't turn. At this point it's my opinion that younger voters simply haven't internalized the consequences of not voting. It's one thing to hear it talked about and another thing to live and endure through it. The experience of the latter reminds you of the true cost of not voting.
This is also true across generations. It's not a new thing, this has been an issue for generation after generation and the only thing that seems to fix it is them aging.
 

ghostemoji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,818
I think people have been making excuses for the younger generations for about as long as this has been a thing. Young people are loud, but they're not as motivated to vote for some reason. Lack of empathy? Haven't tangibly experienced the consequences of the policies of their country? Not sure. We should probably spend more time talking to the older voter base if we want real change.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,142
Young people, by and large, have no prospects, hopes, or futures. The fact we see any of them at all vote astounds me.

It's like partaking in something that from the get go is being presented as something that can change their lives but will absolutely not.
We did quite a number to youth. Killing their health, the planet, financial solvency. I can see the despair.

Also, youth suicide rates are rising rather quickly.
 

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,452
Tulsa, Oklahoma
In my state at least we had a month in advance to vote in mail even. It just hard for me when we have politics in the media 24/7 nowadays why the youth still can't be bothered to vote even when we had a candidate that bent over backwards for us. If we couldn't go out to vote for Bernie, who?
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Both of the commonalities I mentioned cut across every racial demographic. For instance Biden won so heavily primarily because older black voters came out to vote for him. That's not making any judgements on that demographic, but it definitely holds true.




This is the kind of rhetoric I'm calling out here, the notion that because young people didn't "fall in line" and turn out for *insert old progressive-but-with-problems-white-dude-who-likely-couldn't-get-many-of-his-policies-enacted-anyway-here* they're a complete lost cause who 'deserves' what they get. It's the "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" line of thinking with a heavy dose of 'we don't actually hold any empathy for you, we just care about using you for power.'
If you don't vote, especially because apathy, you just couldn't be fucking bothered, thrn the lack of empathy is on you.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,138
It occurs to me that I, an ardent socialist, was a libertarian when I was 18. I didn't vote in 2008, which was the first election I could have voted in.

Not even I can tell you why.
I also didn't vote in my first eligible election. I just didn't care. It wasn't on my mind. "Everything will work itself out" is the mindset of a lot of young people since that is what has happened up to that point in their lives.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Didn't young people vote in bigger numbers, but they were outnumbered by an even bigger increase in boomers?
Asterisk of relative to 2016. Asterisk of they were turning out in Presidential Election numbers in 2018 with an increased share of the vote relative to other midterms without Bernie on the ballot.

AKA, Trump drives up turnout.

I also didn't vote in my first eligible election. I just didn't care. It wasn't on my mind.

That's average. I've voted in every election since I turned 18, but I know that's not normal.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
The easiest solution is to simply make going to vote mandatory and to make election day a holiday.
 

Elfgore

Member
Mar 2, 2020
4,580
Number 2 is a good point. My friend is someone actually able to be effected by right-wing victories. So are most of his roommates, either being LGBTQ+ or non-white. He has expressed a clear position he will not vote. Simply because he believes it will do nothing, his roommates seem to echo the same mindset. The oldest is thirty.

I purposefully elected to make an effort to care and learn about what is going on this election cycle. It looks like all of that may have gone down the toilet and we either get four more years of this or four more years of nothing changing. My apathy rises every time I browse CNN. It's getting really hard for me not to just abandon ship and try to move to another country.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,968
Young people don't vote, I know because I used to be young and didn't vote that much. Same with literally 90% of everyone I know.
 

amusix

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,597
Any excuse for the youth not voting that is couched in the current state of things ("seeing Trump has disenfranchised", "no prospects", "working more now than ever", etc) is complete BS. The youth has NEVER voted, because they simply don't give a fuck. There is a mentality of invulnerability the 18-24 populace has (and has always had) that separates them from the bigger picture. The protection that parents and family gives during adolescence is still often in full effect, and, even when it isn't, the feeling of safety that comes from that lingers. Young people don't vote now for the same reasons that have always been given,and those generally point to the lack of interest in how politics affects everyday life.

Voting_Trends_by_Race_and_Age.jpg
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,515
I don't know... There are portions of our electorate that are literally harassed and intimidated and they still manage to show up. I'm not feeling that charitable for people unable to overcome apathy.
 

faceless

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
Reminds me that I honestly don't understand why anyone with the option for early or mail in voting would choose to vote on the day of the election instead unless that was literally the only time they could get to a polling place. Honestly what should be done is putting more emphasis on an election period rather than a single election day
many people, especially minorities, do not trust mail in voting.

hell, in 2018 a ton of mail in ballots were tossed in Gwinnett County, GA
 
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