Jaguar I- Pace: Auto Express Car of the year

As someone who is in the market for a new car within 1,5 years, I have my eye on this one.

I'm all for more EVs but not sure why someone would buy this over a Model S (insert remarks that it competes more with the X which I don't see to be true from a size point of view) aside from brand name and maybe seating height. When compared to the base Model S - same price, slower, less person/cargo storage capacity, WAY less efficient (you know, if you care about the environment or cost to run sort of stuff), and no infrastructure/charging network integrated into how the car works. Subjective aesthetic preferences will vary of course.

The biggest issue seems to be the lack of integrated charging where this can either be used as a premium commuter or a range-anxiety inducing road tripper which will take a lot of homework and use of external apps to get anywhere.

offtopic said:

I'm all for more EVs but not sure why someone would buy this over a Model S (insert remarks that it competes more with the X which I don't see to be true from a size point of view) aside from brand name and maybe seating height. When compared to the base Model S - same price, slower, less person/cargo storage capacity, WAY less efficient (you know, if you care about the environment or cost to run sort of stuff), and no infrastructure/charging network integrated into how the car works. Subjective aesthetic preferences will vary of course.

The biggest issue seems to be the lack of integrated charging where this can either be used as a premium commuter or a range-anxiety inducing road tripper which will take a lot of homework and use of external apps to get anywhere.

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Because it drives better and has far superior build quality and equipment according to most reviews I've read.

Rival said:

The infrastructure will come in time, the car itself is already equipped for supercharging. Also its a far better put together vehicles than the Model S, it's clearly more premium and anyone who gets behind the wheel will notice that right away, I mean we all know about Tesla interiors!

Calling it way less efficient is also a bit incorrect, it's motors are actually more efficient, it just happens to be very heavy!

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So the only thing you are arguing is "more premium aesthetics". Ok, that is totally subjective - I've been in jags and teslas and both interiors have their merits but in the end that is entirely user preference. "more premium" needs to be clarified but I personally find the ipace dash to be overly cluttered.

Calling it SIGNIFICANTLY less efficient is absolutely correct. It weighs about the same as the Model S (~4700lbs) and less than the X (which is a much bigger vehicle at 5300lbs). For the iPace you get 240 miles for 90kWh or an average of 2.66miles/kWh. For the Model S you get 259 miles for 75kWh or 3.45miles/kWh. So, the iPace has only 77% the efficiency of the Model S which is enormous if considering cost and environmental impact (your source of energy will of course effect this).

offtopic said:

So the only thing you are arguing is "more premium aesthetics". Ok, that is totally subjective - I've been in jags and teslas and both interiors have their merits but in the end that is entirely user preference. "more premium" needs to be clarified but I personally find the ipace dash to be overly cluttered.

Calling it SIGNIFICANTLY less efficient is absolutely correct. It weighs about the same as the Model S (~4700lbs) and less than the X (which is a much bigger vehicle at 5300lbs). For the iPace you get 240 miles for 90kWh or an average of 2.66miles/kWh. For the Model S you get 259 miles for 75kWh or 3.45miles/kWh. So, the iPace has only 77% the efficiency of the Model S which is enormous if considering cost and environmental impact (your source of energy will of course effect this).

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Really? Seems pretty minimalist

spootime said:

Really? Seems pretty minimalist

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That's a shitty looking interior. But it still blows the socks off of Tesla.

for £65,000 it would have to be bloody good.

Porsche said:

That's a shitty looking interior. But it still blows the socks off of Tesla.

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With a username like Porsche, you might be accustomed to the finer things. For plebs like me, the interior looks fine if unremarkable, which is what I would say for a Tesla as well.

Aren't Jaguar's lemons?

Too big and expensive for me, but I like what Jaguar is doing. Hopefully they'll also make sedans with their tech.
It's a bummer they only plan to release a small number at first though.

Rival said:

More premium should be quite clear for anyone who knows cars. A seat Leon FR and an Audi A3 are basically the same car but the audi is far more refined and premium in the way its build. The cabin be more comfortable, the ride smoother and quieter etc etc

The motors in the I-Pace produce also produces more than 100 lb ft torque more than the Model S along with more horse power, surely you're taking that into account when you speak of the efficiency.

That aside the build quality of the two are miles apart and the Jag is still cheaper.

Perhaps 30 miles of extra range is more important to you than ride quality, but I'm sure many would disagree

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Can you point to where the ride quality of the jag is objectively better than a Model S? I have significant time in the Model S (and other premium sedans) and the ride quality is incredible (usually one of the first things people note).

I don't think you are understanding what efficiency is...you are conflating with performance stats (which are problematic when converting what we know from ICE vehicles). The base Model S is in a different league than the iPace when it comes to acceleration. I also didn't mention anything about range...I'm talking about how many miles one can get per kWh (that is like miles per gallon). The iPace lags badly in this area so you have a much more inefficient (costly and environmentally damaging) vehicle.

Rival said:

Take a look at one in the flesh, they're not large at all. I think the term SUV/crossover paints it as a large car but what they really mean is that it has all terrain off road ability that you'd expect from a Range rover

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Ehm, I'm from Europe. Anything bigger than a hatchback is too big for me. XD

The length is great, I don't have qualms with its 4,7m. It's the width that kills it. Some parking lots are so small, I even panicked with my Toyota Auris. I don't understand why car producers go beyond 2m width, it makes driving so difficult.

Kernel said:

Aren't Jaguar's lemons?

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Back in the 70s and 80s under British Leyland ownership they were terrible (as were most BL products), but through the Ford era they improved a lot, and now make some seriously good cars. Everything they've launched since the original XF in 2007 has been solid and reviewed well, and even the generation of cars before that was good for customer satisfaction although not world-leading in reviews.

Rival said:

Various, if not all the reviews state that the ride quality and driving dynamics are unmatched in the EV sector.

When it comes to efficiency I'm speaking of the larger picture as opposed to just MPG, as has been shown by Tesla, a lot can change with software updates down the line and I expect it to do just that

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"Unmatched in the EV sector" - I'll need to see a few receipts from people who know what they are talking about and can back it up with numbers. The only ones I saw were subjective comparisons to the Model X which, as you have pointed out, is a much larger vehicle so you'd expect better driving dynamics from the small car. The iPace is significantly smaller than the S in both length and width but it is a taller (higher center of gravity).

Vehicle efficiency (miles per kWh) in Teslas hasn't been improved via software update to my knowledge. Performance, driving dynamics, and interface can undergo large improvements from update to update though. Last year base Model S (2017) owners woke up to a software update that improved their 0-60 acceleration from 5.1 to 4.2s (although most are getting 4.0 in practice - Tesla has to be careful not to step on the toes of the buyers of their performance models).

Again, the iPace does look like like a wonderful commuter if you don't care about the other factors. The integration of a strategically placed charging infrastructure that is also integrated into car's software isn't really close to a reality for non-Teslas at this point. Want to go from San Francisco to Houston in a Tesla without worrying about external apps, routes, charger availability, charger functionality and charge speed? One voice command to the Tesla and you are ready to go and follow the nav instructions to your destination. Other EVs...have fun with multiple apps, maps, calculators, calling ahead to figure out status of stations, figuring out charge times at each location and availability of chargers. When it comes to actually traveling places Tesla is still many years ahead.

Would be interested if it wasn't a crossover.

One of the first stories I googled links to the Volvo XC40, which is more to my style, I prefer boxier look -- also apparently a lot less cost https://carbuzz.com/news/electric-volvo-xc40-will-cost-a-lot-less-than-the-jaguar-i-pace

Dan said:

for £65,000 it would have to be bloody good.

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Only 55k pounds in America. I'm still amazed how cheap our cars are, even imports. If I bought a new Porsche, not only would it be far cheaper than in the UK but Porsche would throw in a free German vacation to pick it and drive it to the shipping container on the autobahn. Trump about to wreck that though.

Auto Express is a good mag and site. They're trustworthy.
Edmunds, Carbuyer, and Car Magazine had some good things to say about the I-Pace as well.
Interesting to see how Audi's new EV is received. As if there isn't a fair amount of choice already, in a couple of years the EV market is going to be flooded with choices depending on preference for small, SUV, sedan or sporty.

Still waiting on the links to the multiple reviews that say it is more fun to drive than the Model S. Honestly the Model S is incredibly smooth, quiet, fast and refined but not sure I'd call it "fun" (but then again I compare "fun" driving to my Miata which isn't very fair haha). The Model S is a "nicer" drive than most higher end sedans from my experience.

I will go check out the iPace software again but when I looked before it seemed to show charge status at various points along trips and put chargers on the map but not route you through them and tell you optimal charge times at each location based on availability of chargers and currently available wattage. If it does that now that is great!

iPace is a good car and more competition in the EV space is always good. That said, it still isn't a better buy than any Tesla. Here's hoping Jaguar sticks with it.

offtopic said:

I'm all for more EVs but not sure why someone would buy this over a Model S

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It's not poorly-built.

Parch said:

Auto Express is a good mag and site. They're trustworthy.
Edmunds, Carbuyer, and Car Magazine had some good things to say about the I-Pace as well.
Interesting to see how Audi's new EV is received. As if there isn't a fair amount of choice already, in a couple of years the EV market is going to be flooded with choices depending on preference for small, SUV, sedan or sporty.

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Already I dont like Audi's control panel. One thing I dislike about a lot of these cars is the lack of tactile controls. And that dual screen is tacky as fuck (Tesla ain't any better here)

My mom just got a 2018 F-Pace a few weeks ago. She loves it.

MadJakeChurchill said:

It's not poorly-built.

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Not sure where you get this false information - after 5 years in production the build quality of a new Model S is simply outstanding. I swear this is like like with the republicans did with Hillary - just repeat untruths enough and it becomes this echo chamber of falsehoods and eventual hatred based on those falsehoods.

AJx said:

iPace is a good car and more competition in the EV space is always good. That said, it still isn't a better buy than any Tesla. Here's hoping Jaguar sticks with it.

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Agree. I'm hoping buyers looking for this specific style and branding skip over the fpace and choose this instead.

offtopic said:

Not sure where you get this false information - after 5 years in production the build quality of a new Model S is simply outstanding. I swear this is like like with the republicans did with Hillary - just repeat untruths enough and it becomes this echo chamber of falsehoods and eventual hatred based on those falsehoods.

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I recently got to compare a 100D with a new Audi A6. I found the build quality of the Tesla quite disappointing.

HeartlessNobody2134 said:

Would be interested if it wasn't a crossover.

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This. There are so few crossovers that I actually like. If this were a sedan I'd like it a lot more.

SupremeWu said:

One of the first stories I googled links to the Volvo XC40, which is more to my style, I prefer boxier look -- also apparently a lot less cost https://carbuzz.com/news/electric-volvo-xc40-will-cost-a-lot-less-than-the-jaguar-i-pace

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I do like the xc40 though. However I might be a bit biased towards volvo. Though I'd like it more if it were a V40, V60 or V90, as wagons will always be superior to crossovers in my mind.

Dr.Phibes said:

I recently got to compare a 100D with a new Audi A6. I found the build quality of the Tesla quite disappointing.

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I compared it to an A7 and various new Volvos and I found the build quality to be quite similar - the interior aesthetic is quite different but aesthetic preferences aren't related to quality (although people on this board - not necessarily you - mix up those two things).

offtopic said:

Calling it SIGNIFICANTLY less efficient is absolutely correct. It weighs about the same as the Model S (~4700lbs) and less than the X (which is a much bigger vehicle at 5300lbs). For the iPace you get 240 miles for 90kWh or an average of 2.66miles/kWh. For the Model S you get 259 miles for 75kWh or 3.45miles/kWh. So, the iPace has only 77% the efficiency of the Model S which is enormous if considering cost and environmental impact (your source of energy will of course effect this).

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AFAIK We don't know the official EPA rating yet. WTLP for the iPace is 298 miles. "At least 240 miles" is Jaguars estimate.

Personally I'd absolutely choose the ipace over the S/X.

Why are they still making ugly EVs?

I've been pawing at PHEVs and EVs trying to find the right one for me. I bank over 1000kWh with National Grid every year from the solar and I wouldn't mind clawing some of it back to reduce my own personal carbon footprint. Right now I'm kind of hoping for Volvo to come through with a nice PHEV or EV in the $40-50K bracket.

offtopic said:

I'm all for more EVs but not sure why someone would buy this over a Model S (insert remarks that it competes more with the X which I don't see to be true from a size point of view) aside from brand name and maybe seating height. When compared to the base Model S - same price, slower, less person/cargo storage capacity, WAY less efficient (you know, if you care about the environment or cost to run sort of stuff), and no infrastructure/charging network integrated into how the car works. Subjective aesthetic preferences will vary of course.

The biggest issue seems to be the lack of integrated charging where this can either be used as a premium commuter or a range-anxiety inducing road tripper which will take a lot of homework and use of external apps to get anywhere.

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Tesla's abysmal build quality

I always wanted a Jag.

definitely prefer the IPace over the Tesla. Much better looking car and cheaper than the X as well.

Rival said:

False information?? I've done many teardowns of Teslas and they are poorly built, especially compared to European built cars. There's an inherent bias it seems on this board when it comes to Tesla, people either hate them for no real reason, or defend them despite issues. I mean look at this thread, one fella has stated that in no uncertain terms, the I-Pace is not as good as ANY of the Tesla models.

This is complete nonsense of course, as every actual review will say, and people with first hand experience of both will say

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Again, provide links to these tear downs you've done (or others) of a current production Model S or what you are saying isn't any more meaningful than my statement that the quality of the Model S seems comparable when I have inspected them compared to the competitors.

Or, is this like your statements about how "many reviews" say it has superior drive-ability (and what they mean by that) compared to the Model S...we need receipts or you should stop repeating it.

The comparisons I've made have been concrete:
0-60: Winner Tesla (4.2 v. 4.5) although those is very underrated on Tesla (4.0 is more typical)
Efficiency: Winner Tesla (30% more efficient/cheaper/cleaner)
Interior storage: Winner Tesla (63.5cuft v 52cuft)
Better high speed charging infrastructure: Winner Tesla (currently functional Supercharger network)

I acknowledge real issues (manufacturing rate of 3s, labor issues, cash flow issues, quality issues on brand new models like the X two years ago and the 3 this/last year and goddamit I am still waiting on better autopilot and waypoint navigation grrrrr) but will defend them in other areas when people spout nonsense or things based on a reality 4 years ago.

This is the electric car for me now. Combo of Jag quality, intelligent design, cheaper than a Tesla Model S/X, great performance, and it looks... incredible. Shame it's still ludicrously expensive, but I hope it pushes the bar forward for EVs and I can't wait to see what's next.

I had a jaguar f type for the weekend, really liked exterior design but interior was a cheap un-inspired place. Hard plastics and competing shapes galore. Handling was nice howevee.

Pretty disappointed overall.

Veliladon said:

I've been pawing at PHEVs and EVs trying to find the right one for me. I bank over 1000kWh with National Grid every year from the solar and I wouldn't mind clawing some of it back to reduce my own personal carbon footprint. Right now I'm kind of hoping for Volvo to come through with a nice PHEV or EV in the $40-50K bracket.

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Volvo are apparently going to announce the Polestar 2 later this year (to be released next year?), which I'm hoping will be something like the old S30 design wise. They will then announce a full EV version of the XC-40 sometime after that (to be releasing in ~ 2020) and is rumored that it is going to be around $45-50k.

If you want a PHEV from them, then Volvo are more about performance than pure efficiency. They have 'T8' variants of most of their cars (except the XC-40 sadly), which is a setup where the front wheels are driven by a supercharged, turbocharged 2L 4c engine with a small electric motor - and the rear is driven by a modest (~100hp?) electric motor. The combination means they usually get over 400hp/450nm and quite good mileage given their size/power. They aren't all that cheap though, around $55k for the S60/XC60.

Unknown said:

Volvo are apparently going to announce the Polestar 2 later this year (to be released next year?), which I'm hoping will be something like the old S30 design wise. They will then announce a full EV version of the XC-40 sometime after that (to be releasing in ~ 2020) and is rumored that it is going to be around $45-50k.

If you want a PHEV from them, then Volvo are more about performance than pure efficiency. They have 'T8' variants of most of their cars (except the XC-40 sadly), which is a setup where the front wheels are driven by a supercharged, turbocharged 2L 4c engine with a small electric motor - and the rear is driven by a modest (~100hp?) electric motor. The combination means they usually get over 400hp/450nm and quite good mileage given their size/power. They aren't all that cheap though, around $55k for the S60/XC60.

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Volvo's definitely on the way though. With the re-launch and small lineup, i think theyre setup for future success.

We're still holding out on ev's since i feel like the technology is still pretty young. I think we'll all be very happy with what the industry will have for us in the next 5-10 years as the technology matures and there is product from more manufacturers