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Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,332
They've already announced 2 Pokemon games. One is coming out this year. This one also had a huge presence at E3. This Pokemon game will probably make more money than both combined. Despite this their stock is still dropping so yeah I'm pretty comfortable in saying investors wouldn't give a shit even if both those games were announced right now.
If fucking POKEMON isn't worth giving a shit about, I guess literally every console/PC video game publisher should just fold it all up and go home? If the biggest media empire in history isn't worth a shit over a handful games in the insanely volatile mobile market, then I guess video games are fucked, huh? What are you trying to say?
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
You don't seem to understand how organization chart/leadership hierarchy work. The leadership handover isn't down overnight. It's a slow and meticulous process that involve gradual transition/wind-down of vision/direction. There is no doubt that the previous interim president had a lot of input in the launch of switch/botw/mario. This new president seem passive and uncertain, which I think is reflective in the stock price.

How is he passive and uncertain when he said clearly what he wants Nintendo do and what not (which is the same as Kimishima btw) be in different interviews and also to shareholders? He of course just assumed the presidency itself one week ago. Makes no sense.

And I doubt that Furukawa has any relation to the stock price.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe not related to stock prices, but I'm pretty bummed that most of what the new president said was around mobile, while Kimi made his last comment on the shareholder meeting about new games for the Switch. This is not a good sign for me.

Furukawa only talked about mobile one time and he also talked about the Switch. What he's saying isn't any different than what Kimishima was already saying.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,111
I mean, there's a sentiment that the nintendo e3 direct was terrible, more games could have fixed that.


-Pokémon game for 2019 it's just a yellow remake and not a new game (new games sell more)
-Fire emblem, Yoshi delayed to 2019 and misses holiday season
-New Mario party and new mecha game

And that's it from first party nintendo. Of course stock will drop if after E3 you are expecting less sales than before e3.
For one I think you're exaggerating how badly people thought of the Direct when the prominent opinion seemed to be that the E3 presentations sucked in general outside of Microsoft. Plus if you're going to discount Fire Emblem and Yoshi than would any other game announcement really help if they were also going to be 2019 releases?

You also discounted the Xenoblade 2 expansion in spite of it getting it's own segment in the Direct and based on what they've shown and the fact it's also getting it's own retail release may as well should count too.
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Does Nintendo even gain anything from all this secrecy? What does it help them really?

You don't have to show everything but actively communicating once in a while about a product people *want* to be excited about (investors and gamers alike) is not something that needs to be pushed back upon.

Their new president needs to shape up on this point. It's a dumb strategy that isn't gaining Nintendo anything and actively hurting their stock price and it's easy to fix.
I have long imagined that Nintendo cancels projects way more often than most publishers do just because they allow their developers to kind of go nuts and be especially creative with what they do. That and they seem to be paranoid that other companies will copy their ideas too, I guess.

Remember the Vitality Sensor? Project Giant Robot? These got a lot of media attention that lead to nothing.

Plus, it helps to reveal games closer to their complete state. I recall a large amount of people finding Super Mario 3D World to be looking especially weak when it was first shown off, but the last few trailers for it practically blew fans away.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
Wait, when did Serebii not get hyped about a pokemon release?
What did I miss..
Na I'm fine with it.

If Gen 8 wasn't known, then I'd be up in arms.

I just have concern the oversimplifications will carry over

Honestly, if it wasn't for the removal of wild battles and the consequences to balance and the backend system, I'd be all for it. Wild battles with GO style catch? That's fine. Just GO style capture? Hell no.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
I am not saying that they don't announce a lot of games within a year or even 6 months after their announcement. It's just that they so often break this pattern that it becomes more than a few outliers. The Mario shown in the Switch reveal trailer was the Mexico level from Odyssey and both Fire Emblem and Yoshi would have had to be released by now in order to keep that <1year promise. I find it hard to believe that they were planned to be released in that time.

The point is that they break this rule often enough for me not to really buy it.
Again, I would argue that those games releasing more than a year after announcement are the exception. Sure, we can expect Nintendo to do this in the future, but in general they do keep releases to within a year of announcement. As another poster pointed out, many of these announcements where the games were not announced within a year are due to other factors. BotW was announced early because the Wii U was bombing and they wanted to create some buzz. I already mentioned the delays. It could be argued that Bayo 3 was announced early due to the ports of 1 & 2.

But you're right, it does happen. But their general rule is not to do that. Look at any other publisher. How many other publishers have games that are announced and released within a year? I can't think of any off hand. Most publishers announce years in advance. Nintendo is the exception (although again, yes they do break that rule sometimes).
 

ABIC

Banned
Nov 19, 2017
1,170
I've lost tens of thousands in NTDOY so far.

It's weird because there have been multiple share price movements occuring without concurrent release of big news items i.e. a news report, an earnings release or PR.

Usually a 5% share price movement on a mature company with a 50b market cap occurs only on earnings release.

There is some possibility that the shareholders unloading are large institutions with privileged information about what's happening behind the scenes. And there may be bad things happening.

The overall slump in their portfolio velocity and gamers responding to that should not have enough weight to move the market cap down 40% in a few months. It's quite unsettling.

I'm holding on for a while more to see if they react and I still think the earnings report will be solid. But definitely a big disappointment to me and a lot of money burned.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,111
Na I'm fine with it.

If Gen 8 wasn't known, then I'd be up in arms.

I just have concern the oversimplifications will carry over
I know this isn't the right place to have this conversation but I don't really see what's too worrying just based on what we've seen from Let's Go.

The main things missing are Pokemon outside of the OG 151, no wild battles, and abilities. I'm not sure how they can make all of that work especially for Pokemon like Slaking who is balanced around his ability.

Besides the games have a dedicated competitive scene that they've supported for years now. I don't see how they can oversimplify things in the mainline games and I take their word on keeping Let's Go seperate.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I have long imagined that Nintendo cancels projects way more often than most publishers do just because they allow their developers to kind of go nuts and be especially creative with what they do. That and they seem to be paranoid that other companies will copy their ideas too, I guess.

Remember the Vitality Sensor? Project Giant Robot? These got a lot of media attention that lead to nothing.

Plus, it helps to reveal games closer to their complete state. I recall a large amount of people finding Super Mario 3D World to be looking especially weak when it was first shown off, but the last few trailers for it practically blew fans away.

Yes but this is really a new level of secrecy for Nintendo.

Last year they didn't show DOOM or Wolfenstein, in DOOM's case until like 2 months before release.

That is ridiculous. There's no reason to do stuff like that or to keep same year holiday titles hidden until the same fall or to keep people completely in the dark about your online service that launches now in a couple of months.

There has to be a happier medium here between acting like you're a top secret government agency and being a "normal" company that's just selling video games and throwing the public and investors a little red meat once in a while to chew on.

This is not life and death stuff, these are video games Nintendo. Stop with the insane micro-management of every detail, it's silly and serves only to frustrate and confuse gamers and investors alike.
 

weltalldx

Member
Feb 23, 2018
242
How is he passive and uncertain when he said clearly what he wants Nintendo do and what not (which is the same as Kimishima btw) be in different interviews and also to shareholders? He of course just assumed the presidency itself one week ago. Makes no sense.

And I doubt that Furukawa has any relation to the stock price.



Furukawa only talked about mobile one time and he also talked about the Switch. What he's saying isn't any different than what Kimishima was already saying.

For one, allowing this sort of thing to happen.


This would have never happened under Iwata's era. What is this suppose to be? Does Nintendo want to prop up Microsoft? Are they trying to directly compete with Sony audience? This sort of nonsensical and muddy direction is why I think investors in Japan are also concerned.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
For one, allowing this sort of thing to happen.


This would have never happened under Iwata's era. What is this suppose to be? Does Nintendo want to prop up Microsoft? Are they trying to directly compete with Sony audience? This sort of nonsensical and muddy direction is why I think investors in Japan are also concerned.


That I guess is another can of worms, honestly that commercial might warrant its own thread.

It feels like something *might* be up with Nintendo and Microsoft, they just seem very chummy these days. I guess we'll see if some Rare titles are allowed onto the N64 Classic, that might be telling.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
It seems odd that company that is used to developing games for two platforms is hitting such a dry spell. Studios like Intelligent Systems and Hal are used to developing multiple games simultaneously for two systems. The internal teams at Nintendo are used to this as well. Obviously we weren't going to get the next BotW or Odyssey this year, but is there some reason one of those Mario & Luigi ports couldn't be on Switch? Or work with Mercury Steam to have Samus Returns on Switch? What about that Luigi Mansion 3DS port? Is there some reason Intelligent Systems, Hal or one of the internal Nintendo teams couldn't have a smaller, lower fidelity game on Switch for this fall? Did they just lump people onto bigger projects with a higher fidelity hoping that indies would pick up the slack?
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
For one, allowing this sort of thing to happen.


This would have never happened under Iwata's era. What is this suppose to be? Does Nintendo want to prop up Microsoft? Are they trying to directly compete with Sony audience? This sort of nonsensical and muddy direction is why I think investors in Japan are also concerned.

You realise games were allowed crossplay during Iwata's tenure, right?
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
It seems odd that company that is used to developing games for two platforms is hitting such a dry spell. Studios like Intelligent Systems and Hal are used to developing multiple games simultaneously for two systems. The internal teams at Nintendo are used to this as well. Obviously we weren't going to get the next BotW or Odyssey this year, but is there some reason one of those Mario & Luigi ports couldn't be on Switch? Or work with Mercury Steam to have Samus Returns on Switch? What about that Luigi Mansion 3DS port? Is there some reason Intelligent Systems, Hal or one of the internal Nintendo teams couldn't have a smaller, lower fidelity game on Switch for this fall? Did they just lump people onto bigger projects with a higher fidelity hoping that indies would pick up the slack?

I'm pretty sure if HAL made a Kirby game with 3DS graphics, people would be generally displeased.

Mercury Steam is making Metroid 5 for 2020 already... Not sure if Nintendo will port many, if any, 3DS games to Switch.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
I'm pretty sure if HAL made a Kirby game with 3DS graphics, people would be generally displeased.

Mercury Steam is making Metroid 5 for 2020 already... Not sure if Nintendo will port many, if any, 3DS games to Switch.
They don't need to make one with 3DS graphics, but it doesn't need to be one like Star Allies either. There is an inbetween spot there where the Switch is seeing a lot of success.
 

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
Na I'm fine with it.

If Gen 8 wasn't known, then I'd be up in arms.

I just have concern the oversimplifications will carry over.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the removal of wild battles and the consequences to balance and the backend system, I'd be all for it. Wild battles with GO style catch? That's fine. Just GO style capture? Hell no.


Forced waggle/gyro is a slap in the face to disabled gamers and just fucking stupid in general.

That alone means it's the first "mainline" game I won't ever be playing through (looks awful anyways but that was the worst part).
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
For one, allowing this sort of thing to happen.


This would have never happened under Iwata's era. What is this suppose to be? Does Nintendo want to prop up Microsoft? Are they trying to directly compete with Sony audience? This sort of nonsensical and muddy direction is why I think investors in Japan are also concerned.


What? This is a promotion made by NOA which has a Headquarters in the same region of MS and many employees are connected and NCL clearly allowed this to be possible. Nintendo and Microsoft allow crossplay and they're promoting it in a video for Minecraft which is a third party game and for the first time in history two different platform holders are together in a PV. How is any of this nonsense? It's perfectly clear what they're trying to do.

That I guess is another can of worms, honestly that commercial might warrant its own thread.

It feels like something *might* be up with Nintendo and Microsoft, they just seem very chummy these days. I guess we'll see if some Rare titles are allowed onto the N64 Classic, that might be telling.

This had it's own thread weeks ago.
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
Getting Switch owners and would-be owners excited about what's to come for the next 6 months is extremely relevant for them though. I know there's a solid list of indies releasing, but there are so many questions regarding VC, their online strategy, and more.. their E3 showing was baffling.

Yep, it was definitely the worst of the big 3. But I've learned that with Nintendo you get a few jigsaw pieces rather than a full picture
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Yes but this is really a new level of secrecy for Nintendo.

Last year they didn't show DOOM or Wolfenstein, in DOOM's case until like 2 months before release.

That is ridiculous. There's no reason to do stuff like that or to keep same year holiday titles hidden until the same fall or to keep people completely in the dark about your online service that launches now in a couple of months.

There has to be a happier medium here between acting like you're a top secret government agency and being a "normal" company that's just selling video games and throwing the public and investors a little red meat once in a while to chew on.

This is not life and death stuff, these are video games Nintendo. Stop with the insane micro-management of every detail, it's silly and serves only to frustrate and confuse gamers and investors alike.

I'll never understand phrases like that. It's not like Nintendo is reading what you're posting with you talking as if they're here.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
It seems odd that company that is used to developing games for two platforms is hitting such a dry spell. Studios like Intelligent Systems and Hal are used to developing multiple games simultaneously for two systems. The internal teams at Nintendo are used to this as well. Obviously we weren't going to get the next BotW or Odyssey this year, but is there some reason one of those Mario & Luigi ports couldn't be on Switch? Or work with Mercury Steam to have Samus Returns on Switch? What about that Luigi Mansion 3DS port? Is there some reason Intelligent Systems, Hal or one of the internal Nintendo teams couldn't have a smaller, lower fidelity game on Switch for this fall? Did they just lump people onto bigger projects with a higher fidelity hoping that indies would pick up the slack?
I've said it and people laughed. I seriously think they're working on a successor to 3DS and actively developing games for it. It's the only thing that can explain the lack of first party games this year. Their output just doesn't add up.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
It seems odd that company that is used to developing games for two platforms is hitting such a dry spell. Studios like Intelligent Systems and Hal are used to developing multiple games simultaneously for two systems. The internal teams at Nintendo are used to this as well. Obviously we weren't going to get the next BotW or Odyssey this year, but is there some reason one of those Mario & Luigi ports couldn't be on Switch? Or work with Mercury Steam to have Samus Returns on Switch? What about that Luigi Mansion 3DS port? Is there some reason Intelligent Systems, Hal or one of the internal Nintendo teams couldn't have a smaller, lower fidelity game on Switch for this fall? Did they just lump people onto bigger projects with a higher fidelity hoping that indies would pick up the slack?

There's no such thing as dry spell on the console. Maybe it's not what you want to see or you consider it weak but there's releases in every month so far except for August and September (like last year with August and November) with this year third party games picking this space. That's not what a drought is.

About the rest, what you don't think is that unlike those smaller projects that were made for a handheld of 240p, this one would be for a HD hardware so even if it's smaller, it's not going to be the same kind of volume like before. And yeah, I'm sure that for the same exact reason AlphaDream isn't going to make the transition to the Switch be it porting or making new games. The same is true for other 3DS companies which I believe that won't be on the console.

Also, Hal and IS aren't companies from Nintendo. They're third party.
 

Fanuilos

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
So Kirby Blowout Blast and Kirby Fighters you mean?
Not just that, but why not having something like BoxBoy or Pushmo? Hell, Intelligent Systems was cranking out those Fire Emblem titles for 3DS. Why couldn't they make a lower fidelity Fire Emblem or Advance Wars for Switch this year? Why couldn't AlphaDream get their feet wet with Switch by porting Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga to Switch?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,078
And stock will jump during the holiday.
I'm pretty sure if HAL made a Kirby game with 3DS graphics, people would be generally displeased.

Mercury Steam is making Metroid 5 for 2020 already... Not sure if Nintendo will port many, if any, 3DS games to Switch.
Is this confirmed?
I've said it and people laughed. I seriously think they're working on a successor to 3DS and actively developing games for it. It's the only thing that can explain the lack of first party games this year. Their output just doesn't add up.
They just had a giant 2017.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,111
There's no such thing as dry spell on the console. Maybe it's not what you want to see or you consider it weak but there's releases in every month so far except for August and September (like last year with August and November) with this year third party games picking this space. That's not what a drought is.

About the rest, what you don't think is that unlike those smaller projects that were made for a handheld of 240p, this one would be for a HD hardware so even if it's smaller, it's not going to be the same kind. And yeah, I'm sure that for the same exact reason AlphaDream isn't going to make the transition to the Switch be it porting or making new games. The same is true for other 3DS companies which I believe that won't be on the console.

Also, Hal and IS aren't companies from Nintendo. They're third party.
September has Xenoblade 2's Torna expansion and that game is going to be a mini Xenoblade Chronicles game. Meaning it's going to be meaty as hell. Plus it does have a retail release.
 

Megalosaro

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
431
Southern California
Does Nintendo even gain anything from all this secrecy? What does it help them really?

You don't have to show everything but actively communicating once in a while about a product people *want* to be excited about (investors and gamers alike) is not something that needs to be pushed back upon.

Their new president needs to shape up on this point. It's a dumb strategy that isn't gaining Nintendo anything and actively hurting their stock price and it's easy to fix.

Eh,

I'm perfectly okay with Nintendo playing things close to the chest. I hate how some developers announce shit and then it's not out for 2-3 (or longer) years. If it's not coming out in 6-8 months, I don't give a shit about it. I have more important things to worry about
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,865
Whould it ever be possible for Nintendo to buy back all of their publicly traded shares?
And if they did how would that affect them?
That's a take private. Basically an LBO. I don't know if these are common in Japan, and I don't know who would buy them (management vehicle?) or finance it.
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
This is the first I'm hearing of sluggish Switch sales. I thought it was still on fire?

I personally feel it's my favorite console since maybe the PS2 days,and that's only a year in. The breadth and depth of games out now combined with being able to take them on the go, way better 3rd party support than usual, and a metric ton indies, is a revalation.

I hope sales pick up. It's going to be hard for Nintendo to match Zelda/Mario/Splatoon trifecta from year 1 and yes their 1st party lineup right now isn't as strong as last year but I'm content and feel like every 2 years we will be seeing more crazy years. I expect 2019 will see more games from them but even with "just" (lol) Smash, Pokemon, and Mario Party this fall, sales will be incredible. If we had gotten Animal Crossing instead of Mario Party it would have been insanity.

I'm not worried at all for Switch. I think it can and will hit PS4 numbers by the end of its cycle. I also think we will get another 3D Mario and Zelda on the Switch. Making games takes time and Nintendo doesn't cut corners. This leads to less releases but better games (looking at you Zelda omg amazingness). Rambling now so I'll stop but I think Nintendo will be just fine
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,943
CT
Suckers selling their stock before the holiday, hopefully it drops a bit more then I can buy right before lets go and smash come out.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,078
This is the first I'm hearing of sluggish Switch sales. I thought it was still on fire?

I personally feel it's my favorite console since maybe the PS2 days,and that's only a year in. The breadth and depth of games out now combined with being able to take them on the go, way better 3rd party support than usual, and a metric ton indies, is a revalation.

I hope sales pick up. It's going to be hard for Nintendo to match Zelda/Mario/Splatoon trifecta from year 1 and yes their 1st party lineup right now isn't as strong as last year but I'm content and feel like every 2 years we will be seeing more crazy years. I expect 2019 will see more games from them but even with "just" (lol) Smash, Pokemon, and Mario Party this fall, sales will be incredible. If we had gotten Animal Crossing instead of Mario Party it would have been insanity.

I'm not worried at all for Switch. I think it can and will hit PS4 numbers by the end of its cycle. I also think we will get another 3D Mario and Zelda on the Switch. Making games takes time and Nintendo doesn't cut corners. This leads to less releases but better games (looking at you Zelda omg amazingness). Rambling now so I'll stop but I think Nintendo will be just fine
Sales aren't sluggish, people are exaggerating.
 

Dr. Dre's Dr.

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
976
I've lost tens of thousands in NTDOY so far.

It's weird because there have been multiple share price movements occuring without concurrent release of big news items i.e. a news report, an earnings release or PR.

Usually a 5% share price movement on a mature company with a 50b market cap occurs only on earnings release.

There is some possibility that the shareholders unloading are large institutions with privileged information about what's happening behind the scenes. And there may be bad things happening.

The overall slump in their portfolio velocity and gamers responding to that should not have enough weight to move the market cap down 40% in a few months. It's quite unsettling.

I'm holding on for a while more to see if they react and I still think the earnings report will be solid. But definitely a big disappointment to me and a lot of money burned.
Only burnt when you sell.
 

H-I-M

Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,330
Na I'm fine with it.

If Gen 8 wasn't known, then I'd be up in arms.

I just have concern the oversimplifications will carry over

Honestly, if it wasn't for the removal of wild battles and the consequences to balance and the backend system, I'd be all for it. Wild battles with GO style catch? That's fine. Just GO style capture? Hell no.

I totally feel you.
Wild encounters are like 70% of a pokemon game, how are we supposed to go through that by being forced into a go style capture every single time?
It's going to get boring and annoying real quick.
 

Guaraná

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
brazil, unfortunately
Who sold 50k units in Japan this week and whose sales are up almost 10% yoy even having a week 1st semester when it comes to games released? Also, who has two of the biggest videogame franchises coming during the next 6 months?
 

Enrico25

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
1,225
Nintendo Switch games announced or shown over 1 year in advance:

Breath of the Wild: Announced at E3 2013, shown at E3 2014, shown again at E3 2016, again in October 2016 in the Switch preview video and once again in January 2017 at the Switch presentation event, finally released in March 2017

Super Mario Odyssey: Teased in October 2016 in the Switch preview video, shown in January at the Switch presentation event and again at E3 2017, released in October 2017.

Pokémon: First announced at E3 2017, Let's Go is coming out this year. The 2019 entires were already announced this May. This is wrong. The game announced at E3 2017 is the Pokemon Switch releasing next year. Let's GO was first announced this May.

Fire Emblem: Announced at the February 2017 Direct, ̶A̶n̶n̶o̶u̶n̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶E̶3̶ ̶2̶0̶1̶7̶, shown at E3 2018, coming out in ̶e̶a̶r̶l̶y̶ Spring 2019.

Yoshi: Shown at E3 2017, coming out in 2019.

Metroid Prime 4: Announced at E3 2017, coming out after 2018.

Bayonetta 3: Announced in December 2017, coming out ???.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Eh,

I'm perfectly okay with Nintendo playing things close to the chest. I hate how some developers announce shit and then it's not out for 2-3 (or longer) years. If it's not coming out in 6-8 months, I don't give a shit about it. I have more important things to worry about

There has to be a middle ground here between showing games 2-3 years in advance and hiding games in some cases until 2 months before release and not talking about your online setup.

If they have a game like Ridge Racer ... show it at E3 for crying out loud. You're not hurting anyone by doing that.

Do we even know 5 retail releases from third parties for this system going for 2019? It's ridiculous, how do you expect investors to stay excited about your company's future when they have no clue what is coming other than "well we have these two games, trust us we're gonna ship 20 million units".

People basically go into every Nintendo E3 now saying "don't get excited, they're not going to show anything major past what we already know". What the hell kind of attitude is that to foster? It's just a toxic mentality on their part. You don't need to be this hyper secretive it's counter productive.
 
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