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hodayathink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,055
Since there's really no way that any Republican is gonna cross the aisle and vote no, I wonder if any of the Red state Dems up for reelection (Manchin, Heitkamp, Donnelly, McCaskill primarily) are gonna cross party lines and vote yes anyway. I figure Manchin probably will, Heitkamp might, Donnelly might, and McCaskill probably doesn't.
 

Slappy White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,208
How does Trump have any idea how to interview a Supreme Court Justice Candidate? He just chose whoever promised undying loyalty right? There's no way he knew how to ask any kind of complex legal questions.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
The Democrats are unable to do anything. Y'all don't know how this works huh?
What do you think they can do here?

There is always something they can do. They have a platform and easy and immediate access to basically every media outlet on the goddamn planet.

They should be hammering the Republicans non-stop. I would take one for the team and motivate protesters to chain themselves Capital Hill.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

As soon as you sit back and complain you can't do anything, you've already lost.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
There is always something they can do. They have a platform and easy and immediate access to basically every media outlet on the goddamn planet.

They should be hammering the Republicans non-stop. I would take one for the team and motivate protesters to chain themselves Capital Hill.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

As soon as you sit back and complain you can't do anything, you've already lost.
They literally can't do anything, they don't have the votes. They could vote with protesters.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,573
is it normal for presidents to be interviewing a supreme justice candidate? I feel that things like this and Justice department picks should not be interviewed by the president, keep things separate.


The President picks the Justice. Interviewing them is traditionally a pretty basic part of that.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Kavanaugh is the oldest at 53, so there's that...

Bennett is fucking 44 and has been a judge for less than a year and is in a cult so really hope she isn't the pick.

Bennett lets the GOP flog the sexism card.

Any of them could be on the court for 40 years though. Imagine a guy working for Ken fucking Starr getting anything more than the lifetime of humiliation he deserves.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
He specifically isn't under criminal investigation
As far as we are aware, the Trump Campaign is under investigation for both the Special Counsel and the FBI.

If he was directly being investigated, it would have leaked ages ago.
I mean, yeah he is. What do you think the obstruction half of Mueller's probe is about? I think you're confused about Trump being told he wasn't a "target", which is a different thing than saying he & his conduct isn't under investigation.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Can someone explain this to me or just confirm the below?

So supreme court is 7 people. Positions are only ever changed with a retirement or death - otherwise they are for life?

With this new election, that would make 4 heavy conservatives, 2 heavy liberals, and 1 moderate. Do I have that right?

So doesn't this mean a lot of the supreme court decisions that were made from a socially liberal stance are now going to be up in the air. And doesn't that mean no matter which way the election goes this year and in 2020, all supreme court decisions will be from a socially and economically conservative stance until one of them dies?
The makeup is still 5 conservatives 4 liberals.

The one stepping down is a Reagan appointee chosen for being 100% against racial segregation to get past the democratic senate at the time. That's how there's 5 votes for things like gay marriage, abortion rights and stuff like that, even though he's still conservative overall.

The rest are conservative through and through, though the conservative Chief Justice has shown a little concern for the court's reputation when he voted to mostly uphold obamacare. But he did vote against gay marriage and was extremely upset by it, and also voted for allowing Texas to put such extreme regulations on abortion clinics that it would practically ban abortion in that state.
 

Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,119
My comment was me being a little shit more than anything. I don't care for Schumer at all and want him replaced, but there is nothing he could really do.

Still, imagine how corny that conversation must have been. That's what made me shake my head.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
They literally can't do anything, they don't have the votes. They could vote with protesters.

It's not just about actually stopping the vote. I understand that they are blocked because the fillibuster has been nuked.

However, they should at least try their damnedest to sway public opinion against this bullshit. That's what I am talking about.
Instead the majority are probably going to roll over and give up without even trying.

If they tried to do at least something, even unconventional, to delay or stop this vote then more people would have respect for them.

Instead, they are more worried about us being civil to literal nazis.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
It ultimately probably doesn't matter who gets appointed really.
They will in all likelihood be to the right of Kennedy and Roberts, who becomes the new swing vote.

So essentially when you think of precedents in the US that could be eroded or reversed, such as the recent union case or the obvious Roe v. Wade, or new precedents that could be set, you can just think "What will Roberts do?" to get your answer on the outcome.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,947
I would just like to say again: fuck Anthony Kennedy forever. He might have some good rulings under his belt, but evidently he doesn't care whether or not they get overturned. He decided to retire knowing damn well he was going to be replaced with someone ideologically further right than him.
 

moblin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,107
Москва
Regardless of who it is the Senate hearings are going to be nasty. I think Roberts was the last one that had a fairly low-key hearing.
 

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
You'll see the Democrats cave and put somebody in who's gonna overturn roe vs Wade.
Even Manchin is opposed to that: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...picking-court-nominee-who-will-overturn-roe-v
"All of that stuff is red flags for all Americans. And I think he needs to get a jurist basically looking at the law. The Roe v. Wade has been the law for 40-some years," Manchin told a West Virginia radio station on Friday when asked if he wanted a jurist who would overturn the 1973 Supreme Court case that established the right to an abortion.

The big problem right now is that Democrats don't have the seats to block a nominee without at least one Republican flipping, two if McCain is present. So...aim your anger at the people who want to fill this seat with a far-right con as soon as they can.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
It ultimately probably doesn't matter who gets appointed really.
They will in all likelihood be to the right of Kennedy and Roberts, who becomes the new swing vote.

So essentially when you think of precedents in the US that could be eroded or reversed, such as the recent union case or the obvious Roe v. Wade, or new precedents that could be set, you can just think "What will Roberts do?" to get your answer on the outcome.
Yeah. the only thing that certainly matters is age/health.

Maybe there's some importance in how they would write the opinions they're chosen to write, but I don't know how important that is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,947
Crazy idea:

During the hearings, someone asks the candidate if they will uphold Roe v. Wade. The candidate, in all likelihood, will try to dodge the question. After that happens, everyone with Republican Senators calls them and tells them to reject the candidate because they won't commit to overturning Roe v. Wade.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
I would just like to say again: fuck Anthony Kennedy forever. He might have some good rulings under his belt, but evidently he doesn't care whether or not they get overturned. He decided to retire knowing damn well he was going to be replaced with someone ideologically further right than him.
He did care. He just cared more about things like Citizens United being overturned by Democrats than things like Obergefell being overturned by Republicans.
Crazy idea:

During the hearings, someone asks the candidate if they will uphold Roe v. Wade. The candidate, in all likelihood, will try to dodge the question. After that happens, everyone with Republican Senators calls them and tells them to reject the candidate because they won't commit to overturning Roe v. Wade.
And then they say "Ginsburg Precedent" and move on, which I half blame Ruth Bader Ginsburg for starting it, and half blame republicans for taking it to such a huge extreme.

Like how one of these have only a year on the courts. Ginsburg had 13 years before her hearing, so you could still know basically everything she thought just on history. Can't know anything with just 1 year unless they answer the damn questions.
 
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Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,123
NYC
Clarence Thomas retiring in 2021 or earlier in 2019 or 2021 but the dems use the McConnel rule in the senate, is the only thing that can save us
Honestly they'd be hard pressed to find a more conservative and just downright stupid judge than Thomas. I'm willing to be Trump's replacement by default just moves the needle left if only because Thomas is just such a dumb dumb.
 

moblin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,107
Москва
Crazy idea:

During the hearings, someone asks the candidate if they will uphold Roe v. Wade. The candidate, in all likelihood, will try to dodge the question. After that happens, everyone with Republican Senators calls them and tells them to reject the candidate because they won't commit to overturning Roe v. Wade.
The question has been asked at every hearing for at least two decades now of both Republican and Democratic nominees, and of course they demur because they would then have to recuse themselves in the event the issue reached the Court.

It's a boilerplate answer to respond with some form of "I respect stare decisis" and the news organizations get to write a story based on the nothingburger answer and senators get to showboat and tell everyone that they tried and the nominee gets confirmed anyway unless you're Robert Bork.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
Trump completes interviews of Supreme Court candidates, as shortlist shrinks

John Roberts
7 hrs ago

Heh

It's not just about actually stopping the vote. I understand that they are blocked because the fillibuster has been nuked.

However, they should at least try their damnedest to sway public opinion against this bullshit. That's what I am talking about.
Instead the majority are probably going to roll over and give up without even trying.

If they tried to do at least something, even unconventional, to delay or stop this vote then more people would have respect for them.

Instead, they are more worried about us being civil to literal nazis.

Not that Democrats shouldn't do literally nothing, obviously, nor will they, but when I read posts like these I have no idea what you imagine they could or should be doing. Swaying public opinion against this? That's already there! Abortion is going to be front and center for this debate, and a majority of the public already opposes overturning Roe. Senate Republicans have made it pretty clear that they don't if what they're doing is unpopular with the public (see: ACA repeal, tax bill, guns), especially since they don't answer to the public anyway, they only answer to their states. Which means the only constituencies that actually matter here are the voters in Alaska and Maine.

As for "Dems should do something, anything, even if it's unconventional and they'd have my respect"... I mean, they DID oppose Gorsuch in a way that forced McConnell to kill the filibuster, which was a historic and unconventional move. People take that as a given when it was something that only happened because the Dems made it happen. Unfortunately, that was the last resort in the procedural bag of tricks, so there is no something left to delay or stop the vote.

I know it's probably easier to accept that there is always something that could be done and the only reason Dems aren't doing it is because they'd rather tsk tsk Maxine Waters about civility... but the actual truth is that there is nothing that Senate Dems can do other than keep their own caucus in line - which still wouldn't change anything. The power to stop Trump's next appointment lies in the hands of Collins, Murkowski and their states' voters, and no one else.
 
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MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Heh



Not that Democrats shouldn't do literally nothing, obviously, nor will they, but when I read posts like these I have no idea what you imagine they could or should be doing. Swaying public opinion against this? That's already there! Abortion is going to be front and center for this debate, and a majority of the public already opposes overturning Roe. Senate Republicans have made it pretty clear that they don't if what they're doing is unpopular with the public (see: ACA repeal, tax bill, guns), especially since they don't answer to the public anyway, they only answer to their states. Which means the only constituencies that actually matter here are the voters in Alaska and Maine.

As for "Dems should do something, anything, even if it's unconventional and they'd have my respect"... I mean, they DID oppose Gorsuch in a way that forced McConnell to kill the filibuster, which was a historic and unconventional move. People take that as a given when it was something that only happened because the Dems made it happen. Unfortunately, that was the last resort in the procedural bag of tricks, so there is no something left to delay or stop the vote.

I know it's probably easier to accept that there is always something that could be done and the only reason Dems aren't doing it is because they'd rather tsk tsk Maxine Waters about civility... but the actual truth is that there is nothing that Senate Dems can do other than keep their own caucus in line - which still wouldn't change anything. The power to stop Trump's next appointment lies in the hands of Collins, Murkowski and their states' voters, and no one else.

I am mostly just taking issue with the posters replying to me and telling me how they can't do anything.

As you say, there ARE things they can do even if they are limited.
Even if all they can do is try to reach across the aisle to sway someone like Collins, there is still an incredibly slim chance it could mean something.

There is ALWAYS something to be done, so no I am not going to just agree with the people coming here, wringing their hands and basically saying "Nope, it's over. Just give up."
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
I am mostly just taking issue with the posters replying to me and telling me how they can't do anything.

As you say, there ARE things they can do even if they are limited.
Even if all they can do is try to reach across the aisle to sway someone like Collins, there is still an incredibly slim chance it could mean something.

There is ALWAYS something to be done, so no I am not going to just agree with the people coming here, wringing their hands and basically saying "Nope, it's over. Just give up."
I mean, don't you think they're doing that though? Don't you think Schumer reaches out to Collins and Murkowski, the most obvious swing votes on matters of health care and women's rights, whenever possible already?

The thing is, most people can't do something here. People who live in Alaska and Maine can. Everyone who lives in the other 48 states, though, their senators' decisions are pretty much baked in already. Keep the pressure on, but let's be realistic here too.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
I am mostly just taking issue with the posters replying to me and telling me how they can't do anything.

As you say, there ARE things they can do even if they are limited.
Even if all they can do is try to reach across the aisle to sway someone like Collins, there is still an incredibly slim chance it could mean something.

There is ALWAYS something to be done, so no I am not going to just agree with the people coming here, wringing their hands and basically saying "Nope, it's over. Just give up."
It is over though.
Stop trusting Susan Collins to do anything.
If Susan Collins cared, she would not have confirmed Gorsuch.
She would not have voted Aye on Samuel Alito.
Susan Collins is a Republican.
Susan Collins will vote with Republicans.

If you want to prevent Trump from being able to appoint any more Justices, then that will ultimately have to be done in the coming midterms, and even then the likelihood is not high right now of taking the Senate last I checked.
 

Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,205
9 but yes. This is why McConnell is so happy. No matter what, now republican fuckery in our courts will hold the country back for the next 2 decades at a minimum. SC judges have so much power they're essentially kings, and they will use that to gut any liberal legislation that gains traction irregardless of legality.

SC judges should gut legislation. It isn't their job to push the country forward, but keep law within the confines of the constitution. To push things in a different direction it's up to Congress and the States to push Constitutional Amendments, something that was relatively common over the course of the history of this country. Congress doesn't care about that process anymore and just pushes things through and hope they can pack the courts to string it along.

Maybe the amendment system is outdated, but that's how it works and if we want new changes, you amend the constitution and the SC moves along with it.
 

MetatronM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,851
There's no "fight" to be had here. Donald Trump will select someone because he's President and that person will be approved by the Senate because 51 Senators will vote for him or her. So unless they can find a reason for those 51 not to vote in favor other than "this person is not a liberal," then there's nothing there.

If you buy the ticket, you get the ride. I can't stand the idea of appealing to some power to come save the voters (or non-voters) from themselves. This is what they thought they wanted, let them get it and see if that's still the case.
Of course, the flaw with this line of thought here is that this isn't really what the voters as a whole wanted for themselves. More people voted for the Democratic presidential candidate than the Republican one. More people voted for Democrats to serve in the House than for Republicans. More people voted for Democrats to serve in the Senate than they did for Republicans.

The game is rigged in such a way that the minority party won across the board in spite of the overall national sentiment of the voting populace, not because of it. That's just the way things are.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,623
Less than 20 constitutional amendments in the last 200 years doesn't seem all that common to me.

I think Congress would actually love to push more constitutional amendments, but it's an exceptionally hard process made even harder by how hyperpartisan and polarized the country has become.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,860
Less than 20 constitutional amendments in the last 200 years doesn't seem all that common to me.

I think Congress would actually love to push more constitutional amendments, but it's an exceptionally hard process made even harder by how hyperpartisan and polarized the country has become.
Has there been any major constitutional amendment push ever since the Equal Rights Amendment ran aground in the 70s/80s?
 

kIdMuScLe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,575
Los angeles
Honestly it seems really weird that the Supreme Court has no say on who should be the candidate or that is not the only branch not directly voted on by the people
 

moblin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,107
Москва
Honestly it seems really weird that the Supreme Court has no say on who should be the candidate or that is not the only branch not directly voted on by the people
This is by design, in an attempt to preserve the independence of the institution.

The public's influence comes through voting (indirectly) for a president who nominates a candidate, and members of the Senate (originally indirectly, now through direct vote) who can vote to seat the nominee.
 

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,725
Upstate NY
Democrats cant stop this. There is no filibuster allowed etc. GOP just needs to keep a unified vote and its done

Bingo. And as soon as it happens, every state with a GOP-controlled legislature/governorship will pass a law banning abortion and gay marriage in the state. They go to court, SCOTUS picks them up, bye bye Roe, bye bye Obergefell.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
She's the vote that will overturn Roe

They're all gonna vote to overturn Roe, the lone hope is Roberts who might try to protect the court like he did w/ Obamacare, but even then he's likely to come down in a way that whittles away at Roe which will eventually make it de facto impossible to get abortions in states that don't want abortions.

Kavanaugh can opine all he wants about precedent but it's lip service, every single judge on "The List" will overturn Roe, it's basically a requirement.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,468
They're all gonna vote to overturn Roe, the lone hope is Roberts who might try to protect the court like he did w/ Obamacare, but even then he's likely to come down in a way that whittles away at Roe which will eventually make it de facto impossible to get abortions in states that don't want abortions.

Kavanaugh can opine all he wants about precedent but it's lip service, every single judge on "The List" will overturn Roe, it's basically a requirement.

The likely scenario is Roberts voting to uphold Roe in principle but allowing the further chipping away at it, which would effectively let Mississippi, Oklahoma, etc ban it without actually banning it.
 

hodayathink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,055
The likely scenario is Roberts voting to uphold Roe in principle but allowing the further chipping away at it, which would effectively let Mississippi, Oklahoma, etc ban it without actually banning it.

This is where I'm at. Roberts, as Chief Justice, really cares about how people view the court (and specifically his time as chief justice of it) and deciding to completely overturn it would end up being the one thing above all else that people would remember it for, and I don't think he wants that. They'll chip away at the laws to the point of making it effectively unobtainable if the state wants it, but they won't completely overturn it. Same general result, but less of a mark on the court.