I just Watched The Last Jedi, why was it controversial??

Deleted member 25606 · Jul 5, 2018

I just finished it I am still on Netflix and decided to check era and saw this thread. I don't care what anyone says I quite enjoyed it and might even after another viewing and time to percolate rate it third overall, but I am not ready to permantly say that until stress testing it. And it's the only Star Wars movie that the for kids/merch tie in worked on me. I love the Porg. I was the marketable age for the original trilogy and never cared for any of the Ewok or Jawa, and as an adult I truly dislike Jar-Jar Binks.

I understand some of the more legit criticisms but still disagree. Like yeah it's a valid opinion to dislike Finns plot, but I like Finn enough to deal, I almost want a Finn movie because he deserves better, but I'll take it.

And I know why people feel that way about luke but he is broken. The only real comparison for me is Yoda, but he didn't break he hid. And hung on as long as he could to either restore the Jedi when it was safe or pass it on to the next Shepard which was Luke. He did the best job he could, but Luke didn't have enough time to train, fought Vader and Palpatine. Then tried to restore the Jedi with his paltry knowledge and screwed up his nephew. The man is broken, I get it even if it isn't the heroic return.

I could go on but I think I addressed the most important criticisms that are not straight nitpicking, from the comedic stuff to Finn and Luke. Beyond that I think it's just crushed dreams of fanboys combined with the toxic alt-right and adjacent thought which probably also met into a decent portion of the circles in a Venn Diagram.

I can see not liking it as much as me or even putting it low tier, in opinion and taste to each his own. But acting like it is a bad movie or destroys Star Wars is just ridiculous.

MoonlitBow · Jul 5, 2018

It was a good movie, just with enough little flaws or errors that it resulted as a ruined experience for some. It also had themes that weren't well received that encouraged conflicts to be resolved in ways that aren't typical for Star Wars, notably Luke saving the resistance in a manner that is completely passive and without even a single lightsaber clash.

Burrman · Jul 5, 2018

Ya I was so scared going to see it because some of the controversy but walked out loving it and confused.

Deleted member 13798 · Jul 5, 2018

Kor of Memory said:
This is such a nit picky thing. So it deserves a nit picky response.

In the flashbacks Luke and Kylo's lightsabers touch. They also have a duel at the end.

It's a reference to RedLetterMedia's review of the film, but in the review they didn't seem to think that was a bad thing.

MistaTwo · Jul 5, 2018

Hassel said:
Ren and Rey had the only two lightsabers. and at no point did they duel or have the two lightsabers strike each other.
The Praetorian Guard did not use any lightsabers, they used Vibroblades and an bilari electro-chain whip.

Wrong. Those were not vibroblades. They were normal bladed polearms and such with lightsaber style energy beams as attachments.

bottledfox · Jul 5, 2018

I've got a few complaints about the subplots, but I really liked it overall.

1. I felt the drama between Holdo and Poe was forced.
2. The conclusion to the Finn/Rose arc was lackluster and it dragged down an otherwise good third act.
3. The Canto Bight scenes have a particular tone to them that conflicts with the rest of the movie.

5taquitos · Jul 5, 2018

Luke chumped Kylo 10x harder than Obi Wan chumped Vader.

The movie ruled (minus Canto).

tmarg · Jul 5, 2018

Most of the anger seems to stem from the fact that only men are supposed to do space magic.

I will say I found it a bit odd that ramming someone at warp speed would be so effective, and yet no one had ever tried it in any of the previous movies.

Hassel · Jul 5, 2018

Kor of Memory said:
This is such a nit picky thing. So it deserves a nit picky response.

In the flashbacks Luke and Kylo's lightsabers touch. They also have a duel at the end.

I stand corrected you are right about luke and kylo in the flashback.
I will not give you the duel at the end, Luke was not there. =D
I did like the luke projection scene and idea however.

Absoludacrous · Jul 5, 2018

Matthew77 said:
I just finished it I am still on Netflix and decided to check era and saw this thread. I don't care what anyone says I quite enjoyed it and might even after another viewing and time to percolate rate it third overall, but I am not ready to permantly say that until stress testing it. And it's the only Star Wars movie that the for kids/merch tie in worked on me. I love the Porg. I was the marketable age for the original trilogy and never cared for any of the Ewok or Jawa, and as an adult I truly dislike Jar-Jar Binks.

I understand some of the more legit criticisms but still disagree. Like yeah it's a valid opinion to dislike Finns plot, but I like Finn enough to deal, I almost want a Finn movie because he deserves better, but I'll take it.

And I know why people feel that way about luke but he is broken. The only real comparison for me is Yoda, but he didn't break he hid. And hung on as long as he could to either restore the Jedi when it was safe or pass it on to the next Shepard which was Luke. He did the best job he could, but Luke didn't have enough time to train, fought Vader and Palpatine. Then tried to restore the Jedi with his paltry knowledge and screwed up his nephew. The man is broken, I get it even if it isn't the heroic return.

I could go on but I think I addressed the most important criticisms that are not straight nitpicking, from the comedic stuff to Finn and Luke. Beyond that I think it's just crushed dreams of fanboys combined with the toxic alt-right and adjacent thought which probably also met into a decent portion of the circles in a Venn Diagram.

I can see not liking it as much as me or even putting it low tier, in opinion and taste to each his own. But acting like it is a bad movie or destroys Star Wars is just ridiculous.

I feel like the this sentiment will probably start to be more common as it reaches more people through Netflix, since those people that it's reaching are less likely to be in the "Not My Star Wars!" camp.

Zed · Jul 5, 2018

The characterization and fate of Luke Skywalker and the pointless casino planet plotline.

There are tons of other things too, but those seem like nitpicks compared to the 2 things I mentioned.

Chaos2Frozen · Jul 5, 2018

Fury451 said:
For the usual band of sexist/racist idiots, sure. Not even worth giving them attention.

It's kinda hard to ignore them when they're making fan edits of the movie, writing up "declaration of independence" style letters for all to see on social media, and fucking death threatening actresses.

StuBurns · Jul 5, 2018

Why does it matter if it's lightsabers or not? It's pretty magic weapons and people being murdered. Anything beyond that and it's seriously reaching.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

jman2050 said:
The movie they wanted in their head wasn't the movie they got onscreen.

^

This coupled with insane hyperbole when it comes to anything that could be viewed as a flaw and a hella healthy dose of aggressive stupidity and the apparent inability to understand metaphors and themes.

Ascenion · Jul 5, 2018

It's an uneven film that feels disconnected from its predecessor. If anything the same person should've at least written an overarching plot from point A to point B. If anything episode IX is going to make TLJ a considerably worse film in context than it already is. If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be Disney for not planning this stuff out.

Reyes · Jul 5, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
^

This coupled with insane hyperbole when it comes to anything that could be viewed as a flaw.

That and the rampent sexism in the Star Wars fanbase.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

Reyes said:
That and the rampent sexism in the Star Wars fanbase.

We have an entire generation of people who grew up with the Anakin and Padme romance...

Gundam · Jul 5, 2018

MistaTwo said:
Wrong. Those were not vibroblades. They were normal bladed polearms and such with lightsaber style energy beams as attachments.

Star Wars TLJ Visual Dictionary calls these things "Vibro-Voulges".

cdyhybrid · Jul 5, 2018

It didn't match up with their fan fiction

SpookyLettuce · Jul 5, 2018

PogChamp said:
IDK about the moon slinging and star destroying, but Luke in the OT still has faith in his father to the very end. I don't really understand why he gave up on Kylo so easily. And even in their final moment he doesn't say anything to apologize for how he acted or try to redeem Kylo. I just don't get it, he seems completely different from young Luke. I'd love to see an alternative perspective on Luke's character though, I'm not super hardcore into SW so I may have missed something.

But he does apologize:

I wouldn't say he's given up on Kylo's redemption, he even reassures Leia that "no one's ever really gone". He just knows HE can't save Ben, especially considering the role he played in Ben's fall.

Zed · Jul 5, 2018

Ascenion said:
It's an uneven film that feels disconnected from its predecessor. If anything the same person should've at least written an overarching plot from point A to point B. If anything episode IX is going to make TLJ a considerably worse film in context than it already is. If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be Disney for not planning this stuff out.

Yeah, it was pretty stupid for Disney not to have some key guidelines for the overall plot of the trilogy. Making up a story as it goes along rarely works.

Reyes · Jul 5, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
We have an entire generation of people who grew up with the Anakin and Padme romance...

Now I'm sad :(

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

Zed said:
Yeah, it was pretty stupid for Disney not to have some key guidelines for the overall plot of the trilogy. Making up a story as it goes along rarely works.

Literally talking about a franchise that was made up as it went along. Lucas didn't have an outline, ANH is a standalone film.

Lakershead22 · Jul 5, 2018

I honestly didn't have a problem with the film. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Deleted member 22490 · Jul 5, 2018

Things I didn't like about it:

Holdo not telling her people about the plan. Everyone is afraid that they are going to be wiped out and she is seemingly only concerned with running until they are out of fuel. Her not communicating was just contrived.
I like Luke being an old curmudgeon. What I didn't like is that he was ready to kill his nephew over a bad vision. I feel that the thought wouldn't have occurred to Luke at all. People counter this by saying that people change over 30 years, but this isn't life, it's a story. Also, I want to see that change happen a lot slower than in a narrated flashback. I want to see him struggle over how to deal with Kylo not only with himself, but with others as well. But, I do like curmudgeon, disillusioned, suicidal Luke.
Canto Bight. It felt like they shunted off two of the minority characters off into this zany, wacky adventure involving child slavery and animal abuse. Although it has something to do with the plot, it felt separate. Probably has something to do with the difference in tone when we shift between a drunk alien shoving coins into BB and the desperation of the rebels fleeing the FO.
There isn't a song that I truly like in it. None of the music from the ST is as memorable as the Binary Sunset or the Asteroid Belt (my absolute favorite). Even the PT had a couple of great pieces such as Across the Stars and Duel of the Fates. Some might chalk this up to nostalgia, but I'm open to new music, especially music that goes along with a great scene. I bought the Mad Max Fury Road soundtrack as soon as I got out of the theater just because of the music that was playing during the sandstorm. A great song with amazing visuals goes a long way for me.

Things I liked about it:

Hyperspace ram. It was beautiful
Along that same line, the movie is beautifully shot.

jman2050 · Jul 5, 2018

Zed said:
Yeah, it was pretty stupid for Disney not to have some key guidelines for the overall plot of the trilogy. Making up a story as it goes along rarely works.

Almost all stories, even serialized ones, are made up as they go along.

That's the nature of creativity in general. What you start with is never what you end with.

Hassel · Jul 5, 2018

MistaTwo said:
Wrong. Those were not vibroblades. They were normal bladed polearms and such with lightsaber style energy beams as attachments.

Will you accept the Wookeepedia as a source?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Praetorian_Guard

The Praetorian Guards boasted an arsenal of melee weapons [7] that were high-tech versions of unpowered analogs found in primitive societies across the galaxy, such as long vibro-voulges, electro-bisentos with an electro-plasma energy filament running along the blade's edge[9]—flailing Bilari electro-chain whips, and heavy double-bladed vibro-arbir blades that could also be separated into[7] dagger-like single-bladed weapons to adjust to any battle scenario. Different Praetorian Guards would specialize in what variation they normally kept they're weapon in.[9] The precise, sweeping movements of their martial arts fighting style struck fear into the hearts of foes.[7] The eight Praetorian Guards were really four sets of pairs that wielded the same weapon. The First Guard both wielded electro-bisentos. The Third Guard utilized Bilari electro-chain whips and the Seventh Guard made use of dual vibro-arbir blades.[2]

StuBurns · Jul 5, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Literally talking about a franchise that was made up as it went along. Lucas didn't have an outline, ANH is a standalone film.

Whilst true, George didn't bail after the first film, even though he didn't director or script the others, he was consistently shepherding the projects, and they had more time between them. Johnson had to write TLJ whilst TFA was being shot.

And it's not like the originals weren't hurt by being made up as they went along too.

gutter_trash · Jul 5, 2018

it's contraversial becaues it poops on the previous movie and ends with no follow through for the final and 3rd movie of the trilogiy..

leaving you scratching your head: "what is the point of the new trilogy anyway?"

it's a bad Star Wars movie , not prequel bad but almost

J_Viper · Jul 5, 2018

ZeoVGM said:
It's a combination of two groups of fans. The first group is those who had their own predetermined head cannon. To them, anything that happened that didn't match up with what was in their heads was going to be trash.

The second group is sexists.

or there's a ton of dumb shit scenes that take away from the film's many great moments

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

jman2050 said:
Almost all stories, even serialized ones, are made up as they go along.

That's the nature of creativity in general. What you start with is never what you end with.

And when you do decide on an ending too early, that ending can be tonally dissonant with the later work you create...example:

StuBurns said:
Whilst true, George didn't bail after the first film, even though he didn't director or script the others, he was consistently shepherding the projects, and they had more time between them. Johnson had to write TLJ whilst TFA was being shot.

And it's not like the originals weren't hurt by being made up as they went along too.

J.J. didn't bail on TLJ, he was consulted before TLJ's script was finished to avoid inconsistencies.

Rad · Jul 5, 2018

To me it was the second best Star Wars movie. All my friends thought it was good as well.

TalonJH · Jul 5, 2018

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Was about to watch it again now that it's on Netflix but it's too late.

Liquidsnake · Jul 5, 2018

Helio said:
Things I didn't like about it:

Holdo not telling her people about the plan. Everyone is afraid that they are going to be wiped out and she is seemingly only concerned with running until they are out of fuel. Her not communicating was just contrived.

I like Luke being an old curmudgeon. What I didn't like is that he was ready to kill his nephew over a bad vision. I feel that the thought wouldn't have occurred to Luke at all. People counter this by saying that people change over 30 years, but this isn't life, it's a story. Also, I want to see that change happen a lot slower than in a narrated flashback. I want to see him struggle over how to deal with Kylo not only with himself, but with others as well. But, I do like curmudgeon, disillusioned, suicidal Luke.

Canto Bight. It felt like they shunted off two of the minority characters off into this zany, wacky adventure involving child slavery and animal abuse. Although it has something to do with the plot, it felt separate. Probably has something to do with the difference in tone when we shift between a drunk alien shoving coins into BB and the desperation of the rebels fleeing the FO.

There isn't a song that I truly like in it. None of the music from the ST is as memorable as the Binary Sunset or the Asteroid Belt (my absolute favorite). Even the PT had a couple of great pieces such as Across the Stars and Duel of the Fates. Some might chalk this up to nostalgia, but I'm open to new music, especially music that goes along with a great scene. I bought the Mad Max Fury Road soundtrack as soon as I got out of the theater just because of the music that was playing during the sandstorm. A great song with amazing visuals goes a long way for me.

Things I liked about it:

Hyperspace ram. It was beautiful

Along that same line, the movie is beautifully shot.

I have to agree with all your points. I'll add that the Kylo Rey stuff was really good all of it, even the Skype sessions, loved it.

Finn got done dirty as did Luke, and Poe.

Doctoglethorpe · Jul 5, 2018

Luke wasn't a flawless superhero. Leia had an invisible space umbrella. Poe was fem-domed by a lesbian. Rey is still named Mary. Finn was mouth raped. Kylo broke his helmet. Uhhhhhh Akbar died as a background extra. Casinos are dumb. Armchair directors are better then professionals. Etc.

This is sarcasm btw. I know it's hard to tell these days. I mean you can probably find a hundred YouTubers that say this exact shit and mean every word of it.

MistaTwo · Jul 5, 2018

Hassel said:
Will you accept the Wookeepedia as a source?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Praetorian_Guard

The Praetorian Guards boasted an arsenal of melee weapons [7] that were high-tech versions of unpowered analogs found in primitive societies across the galaxy, such as long vibro-voulges, electro-bisentos with an electro-plasma energy filament running along the blade's edge[9]—flailing Bilari electro-chain whips, and heavy double-bladed vibro-arbir blades that could also be separated into[7] dagger-like single-bladed weapons to adjust to any battle scenario. Different Praetorian Guards would specialize in what variation they normally kept they're weapon in.[9] The precise, sweeping movements of their martial arts fighting style struck fear into the hearts of foes.[7] The eight Praetorian Guards were really four sets of pairs that wielded the same weapon. The First Guard both wielded electro-bisentos. The Third Guard utilized Bilari electro-chain whips and the Seventh Guard made use of dual vibro-arbir blades.[2]

This is so nitpicky it is insane.

Okay, so they are using electo and vibro blades that just happen to have an electro-plasma attachment also on the blade edges, but not the same type of electro-plasma that lightsabers use.

Here is the official pic of those Vibro-arbir blades.

Are you telling me that those red energy beams coming out of the hilt are absolutely nothing like light saber blades in look, sound, and function?

crimsonECHIDNA · Jul 5, 2018

Nothing against OP, but I always have a hard time taking threads like these in good faith. "I don't have a problem with _______ so I don't understand what the controversy was about."

I dunno, it always comes off as a stealth way to preemptively dismiss people who did have a problem with whatever the work was.

xenocide · Jul 5, 2018

Rad said:
To me it was the second best Star Wars movie. All my friends thought it was good as well.

It's weird to me that there's this continual idea that it's a reviled film when everyone I know that went and saw it liked it--some people weren't big on certain aspects, but generally people liked it. It's anecdotal evidence sure, but the movie still made $1.33b, so clearly it wasn't considered garbage by a huge portion of fans.

MistaTwo said:
Are you telling me that those red energy beams coming out of the hilt are absolutely nothing like light saber blades in look, sound, and function?

I believe there are several lightsaber-esque weapons in the SW universe, but a lightsaber is signified by the use of kyber crystals, while the alternatives use different bases.

ZeoVGM · Jul 5, 2018

J_Viper said:
or there's a ton of dumb shit scenes that take away from the film's many great moments

I guess.

But mainly the two things I mentioned.

gutter_trash · Jul 5, 2018

crimsonECHIDNA said:
Nothing against OP, but I always have a hard time taking threads like these in good faith. "I don't have a problem with _______ so I don't understand what the controversy was about."

I dunno, it always comes off as a stealth way to preemptively dismiss people who did have a problem with whatever the work was.

yup, I hate the movie. I'm not a racist or a sexist. Rey is a great protagnoist.

I loved the way TFA set up the building blocks for the trilogy, I hate how TLJ just shits on everything from TFA

VeePs · Jul 5, 2018

konka said:
I mean I guess based on the reaction from some people here I was expecting some abomination of Star Wars and instead I got a Star Wars movie that was strong on character development, especially with adding a new cast of rebels.

I am just baffled that the movie I just watched is what some people apparently take so much issue with. Can somebody explain...

There's a few reasons, and I think there's two groups. One group just hates it because Rey is a female, Finn is black, and his love interest is Asian.

I'm not a huge fan because:

1.) Finn and Rey were the best parts of Episode 7. This movie they separated them, they had amazing chemistry so that kinda sucks. I could forgive it but...

2.) Finn's plot sucks. WOOOW it was boring. I could forgive this if his plot actually contributed to the story, but no, it was just a "lesson" for Poe and him. So we got a boring as fuck adventure basically for character growth for character flaws they didn't need to introduce but hey.

3.) Luke is cranky and old and is a quitter "ITS JUST LIKE REAL LIFE" this is a movie man. I don't want Episode 9 to be Rey giving up and letting Kylo win because oh hey, in real life sometimes bad guys win lets have it here. We've journeyed with her this far, I want to see her struggle and ultimately succeed. With Luke, it's been years since I saw him last. The expanded universe made him into a total badass. In here he saw his nephews mind and was about to kill him. Yes, the man who believed his father, one of the worst Sith Lords of all time believed he still had good, was about to murder his best friend and sisters son, the nephew he grew up with. Okay...

4.) Luke's lessons with Rey aren't really that good?

5.) Other people got mad because Snoke died and Rey is the child of nobodies. I don't mind the last part, I wish we had a little bit more information about Snoke before killing him off but hey, it is what it is.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

Helio said:
Holdo not telling her people about the plan. Everyone is afraid that they are going to be wiped out and she is seemingly only concerned with running until they are out of fuel. Her not communicating was just contrived.

She told people the plan, she just didn't tell Poe specifically, because he was demoted and got people killed.

I like Luke being an old curmudgeon. What I didn't like is that he was ready to kill his nephew over a bad vision. I feel that the thought wouldn't have occurred to Luke at all. People counter this by saying that people change over 30 years, but this isn't life, it's a story.

"Draw from life" is one of the most important aspects of storytelling, that concept is what makes stories relatable to an audience.

Canto Bight. It felt like they shunted off two of the minority characters off into this zany, wacky adventure involving child slavery and animal abuse. Although it has something to do with the plot, it felt separate

The plots are all intertwined with one another, every main player in the new generation is separated from the group which forces them to self reflect and rethink their course of action.

VeePs said:
I could forgive this if his plot actually contributed to the story, but no, it was just a "lesson" for Poe and him.

Finn and Poe's plan has devastating consequences for the resistance.

travisbickle · Jul 5, 2018

tmarg said:
I will say I found it a bit odd that ramming someone at warp speed would be so effective, and yet no one had ever tried it in any of the previous movies.

Because it destroys a quadrillion dollar ship which I'm sure are in pretty short supply for the rebels. Aren't the survivors just stuck on that planet at the end?

Ororo · Jul 5, 2018

It tells the same story we saw in the OT, apologists try to make excuses and put the blame on you for not liking a boring movie.

StuBurns · Jul 5, 2018

Helio said:
Things I didn't like about it:

Holdo not telling her people about the plan. Everyone is afraid that they are going to be wiped out and she is seemingly only concerned with running until they are out of fuel. Her not communicating was just contrived.

I like Luke being an old curmudgeon. What I didn't like is that he was ready to kill his nephew over a bad vision. I feel that the thought wouldn't have occurred to Luke at all. People counter this by saying that people change over 30 years, but this isn't life, it's a story. Also, I want to see that change happen a lot slower than in a narrated flashback. I want to see him struggle over how to deal with Kylo not only with himself, but with others as well. But, I do like curmudgeon, disillusioned, suicidal Luke.

Canto Bight. It felt like they shunted off two of the minority characters off into this zany, wacky adventure involving child slavery and animal abuse. Although it has something to do with the plot, it felt separate. Probably has something to do with the difference in tone when we shift between a drunk alien shoving coins into BB and the desperation of the rebels fleeing the FO.

There isn't a song that I truly like in it. None of the music from the ST is as memorable as the Binary Sunset or the Asteroid Belt (my absolute favorite). Even the PT had a couple of great pieces such as Across the Stars and Duel of the Fates. Some might chalk this up to nostalgia, but I'm open to new music, especially music that goes along with a great scene. I bought the Mad Max Fury Road soundtrack as soon as I got out of the theater just because of the music that was playing during the sandstorm. A great song with amazing visuals goes a long way for me.

Things I liked about it:

Hyperspace ram. It was beautiful

Along that same line, the movie is beautifully shot.

I feel like exactly the opposite about some of these.

Holdo is in charge. This is a military operation. She owes them no answers, she was right the whole time, and revealing it could have given a spy a chance to communicate the plan and ruin it.

Luke considering killing Ren, whilst shocking, is completely human. Luke is a still a man, he still fears for the future. The entire 'would you go back and murder Hitler' thing, what if you were there at the time and knew?

The hyperspace ram is terrible. Visually it's incredible, but the implication for the previous films is dreadful. To be fair, this came up in TFA. The whole 'we're escaping at hyperspace', 'we need to enter at hyperspace', bits. If all it takes to get beyond a shield is hyperspace, put a robot in a ship, hyperspace into the Death Star. It makes the OT seem stupid.

The movie is very nice looking, for the most part, but I think Rogue One takes it for the most beautiful SW so far.

xenocide · Jul 5, 2018

travisbickle said:
Because it destroys a quadrillion dollar ship which I'm sure are in pretty short supply for the rebels. Aren't the survivors just stuck on that planet at the end?

Also, according to SW lore books, there are safeguards in place on most ships. It also requires the targets have no shields up--which would disperse the energy and cause no real damage. There's a scene early on in the chase where Hux tells them to divert all power to engines and weapons. They had no shields to protect them.

Cabbagehead · Jul 5, 2018

Agree with you OP, people make it out to be this horrible piece of cinema. Even though i left it feeling good about the next part for the most part.

It wasn't without it's narrative and character flaws though. But the fan base was eating it self alive because of expectations built up. Which amount to fan fiction and head canon.

Liquidsnake · Jul 5, 2018

gutter_trash said:
yup, I hate the movie. I'm not a racist or a sexist. Rey is a great protagnoist.

I loved the way TFA set up the building blocks for the trilogy, I hate how TLJ just shits on everything from TFA

I'm breaks my heart.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2018

sdp said:
It tells the same story we saw in the OT, apologists try to make excuses and put the blame on you for not liking a boring movie.

My favorite part of the OT was when Luke was completelywrong about Vader followed by the part where Vader kills his master not for the sake of redemption but for the sake of ruling the galaxy. Ben coming back to hand Vader the biggest L of his life without ever harming it was super duper cool. Yoda teaching Luke about why he shouldn't be a jedi was neat. Han and Leia's plan led to the rebellions fleet being destroyed, which was a bummer.

travisbickle said:
Because it destroys a quadrillion dollar ship which I'm sure are in pretty short supply for the rebels. Aren't the survivors just stuck on that planet at the end?

By the end of the film there are so few resistance members left that they all can fit inside the falcon, they began the film with a fleet of ships.

Ascenion · Jul 5, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Literally talking about a franchise that was made up as it went along. Lucas didn't have an outline, ANH is a standalone film.

Lucas was at least involved in writing every film in some respect and Kasdan was involved in Empire and ROTJ. Rian wrote TLJ alone if I recall correctly and that's the first mistake. If anything JJ, Rian and Trevorrow should've been involved in the writing and storyboarding of each film in some respect to maintain continuity so the characters can at least continue development from one film to the next. I don't feel like Finn progressed at all in TLJ to the point he could've just stayed in the coma. That's not how a sequel should feel for a character.

I just Watched The Last Jedi, why was it controversial??

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