I just Watched The Last Jedi, why was it controversial??

Jobbs · Jul 6, 2018

Vern said:
Asian girl with bad haircut I think is the main thrust of their argument.

shnurgleton said:
They wanted Luke Skywalker to be not sad and just be a badass and not die and also they don't like women being heroes or appearing while not white and also they wanted Rey to be related to Luke Skywalker because reasons

Garou said:
Many people imagined a different outcome for their hero after 30 years I guess, but no single work will ever be able to live up to the old extended canon and the mountains of fan fiction in people's heads.

This is unfair. I didn't like the movie and I thought it was a fucking mess -- It was so bad it made me stop caring about SW after being a life long fan -- And it has nothing to do with asians or women or haircuts or Luke not being badass enough. The problems were literally everything else but those things. The movie is a *fucking* mess where much of what happens and much of what people do makes no logical sense. Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

You're free to disagree and like the movie, but it's so frustrating being painted as a manbaby outraged about SJWs just because I didn't.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2018

Jobbs said:
This is unfair. I didn't like the movie and I thought it was a fucking mess -- It was so bad it made me stop caring about SW after being a life long fan -- And it has nothing to do with asians or women or haircuts or Luke not being badass enough. The problems were literally everything else but those things. The movie is a *fucking* mess where much of what happens and much of what people do makes no logical sense. Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

You're free to disagree and like the movie, but it's so frustrating being painted as a manbaby outraged about SJWs just because I didn't.

"The things I wanted to happen didn't happen" is not evidence that "they had no plan." The film is consistent with TFA:

Resistance is packing up trying to get away from their base on D'Qar. Direct continuation from TFA where, if you don't recall, Starkiller base was charging up to fire on the Resistance base. FO knew where they were. FO forces were not concentrated at Starkiller base, and it's destruction did not destroy the FO ability to swiftly enter into the galaxy conquering mode.

Finn wakes up from coma, shouting REY, first thing he asks anyone he recognizes, 'Where's Rey?' Direct continuation of his attitude and mission from TFA. If you don't recall, he told Han he specifically came to Starkiller to get Rey.

Luke and Rey on Ach-To, don't know how you can miss the direct continuation there.

Snoke and Kylo. end of TFA, Snoke orders Hux to bring Kylo to him so he can complete his training. Direct continuation, where Snoke berates Kylo for his failure to take out Rey. I personally assume that this convo could itself be an aspect of his training, though it isn't necessarily that, could just be what it appears to be, a dressing down for failure. Training to come later.

TFA:A new generation of heroes thrust into the world of SW. Meeting legendary heroes as well as rising heroes.
TLJ:The old generation of heroes passes the baton to the new generation of heroes.

Rendering... · Jul 6, 2018

They ruined Luke Skywalker by making him an actual character instead of a walking archetype who uses his super duper Force zipzaps to go all Thanos on the First Order.

Also, too many women. But like in a story-oriented way because I only want what's best for the series. Not a sexist way.

Why did they not consult my personal wishlist?

True Prophecy · Jul 6, 2018

Jobbs said:
This is unfair. I didn't like the movie and I thought it was a fucking mess -- It was so bad it made me stop caring about SW after being a life long fan -- And it has nothing to do with asians or women or haircuts or Luke not being badass enough. The problems were literally everything else but those things. The movie is a *fucking* mess where much of what happens and much of what people do makes no logical sense. Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

You're free to disagree and like the movie, but it's so frustrating being painted as a manbaby outraged about SJWs just because I didn't.

Well the sad truth is for every person that doesn't like it legitimately there are many of those out there literally attacking actors and calling for women and minorities to be removed.

In regards to your opinion I would love you to break down how it makes no logical sense?

Also couldn't this thread have been in one of the many other topics about this? Lots of retread ground. But hey I'm no mod.

TheSkullPrince · Jul 6, 2018

I liked it for the most part, I consider it the 5th best SW movie, but

WHY DID THEY DO THAT TO MY BOYS LUKE AND AKBAR?

TO KILL THE PAST

I KNOW BUT IT WASN'T WELL-EXECUTED

Had no problem with Luke dying, I understand that that had to happen and the way it did as to not overshadow the new characters and all but...

ROTJ is my favorite SW movie, that ending was perfect and to see that it really didn't matter, is kinda heart-breaking.

I understand that's how shit goes in the real world: Evil is vanquished only for it to rise up again, but Luke going AWOL on everyone, felt kind of out of character.

Luke going missing for so many years was a great mystery TFA set up, but I felt like there was no pay-off to that in TLJ.

Specific Power Ranger · Jul 6, 2018

I don't get it either OP. A lot of these problems stems from being written into a corner by the The Force Awakens. What were they really going to do with Luke ? Why wouldn't he come back to help if it wasn't because he couldn't sense that anything was going on ? They had to cut him off from the force. And he was already set up to have left a long ass time ago in the force awakens, and we even saw him standing on top of that cliff. There's just not a lot of options that would make any kind of sense other than the one we got.

EDIT: I Will say I think they should have kept like around for 9 though. Would have really liked to get more of him. But I guess he could still play a role as a force ghost..

BossAttack · Jul 6, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Your entire argument is that Luke should've been there...

And, this is where I stop trying to argue with you as once again you are arguing in bad faith.

because Kylo believes he survived the blast when the scene so clearly telegraphs multiple times that he's not thinking absolutely not thinking critically in any way shape or form and downright refuses to: You're saying we should take this dude's opinion at face value during that scene, and that's an incredibly stupid argument to make

In literally both of the films where these events happen Luke is warned about how powerful the darkside of the force is. In both films he experiences that first hand:

but even with first hand experience with the power of the darkside he never gets turned. Meant to show force users in their prime, but the latter creates plot holes and is never mentioned again. No it's not in anyway shape or form. I don't think you really get SW if you're genuinely making that statement especially since you seem to miss the point of it in the older films and why so many criticize the prequels....AGAIN.

Lucas also thought it was a good idea to create Jar Jar Binks, the old EU was mostly comprised of incredibly terrible plot lines and fan wank. No idea why you're trying to prop it up.

I will just laugh at the combination of these last two points. First, you started with the ludicrous notion that every use of Force Power is tied to some great thematic point. But, when realizing this cannot possibly match up with the sheer amount of Force Use shown, especially in the prequels, you try to prop back up this point by shoving it under "it was meant to show force users in their prime." A completely broad and nebulous "theme" that could support literally any use of Force in the prequels, yet for some reason doesn't apply to the Sequels showing another Force User in their old, seasoned age. Lastly, when faced with the undeniable fact that the creator of Star Wars supported such grand use of Force Powers, you choose to insult him by bringing up Jar-Jar Binks out of nowhere in order to nullify his thoughts on the franchise (many thoughts which are still canon). You know, despite the fact that he created and over saw the entire series for over 30 years. But, what the fuck does George Lucas know?

I can't debate when all you do is engage in bad-faith arguments and ignore entire paragraphs of points.

Brian McDoogle said:
Fair enough. I went back and read all of your posts in this thread and you don't explicitly mention it as a mark of quality, but I assumed you came into this thread to discuss that plot point as a remark on the quality of the film since the thread was about the quality and controversy surround it. That's on me.

No problem.

Illusion · Jul 6, 2018

1. A spacebattle with a ship locked in a really stupid position.
2. People are able to leave said ship like it's nothing.
3. They have to go to some casino planet to find a hacker who they didn't really need.
4. Rose was fun but her character didn't serve the story in a satisfying way other then "here's a great character to pander to a audience".
5. Luke died too early for fans to have our fill.
6. Princess space magic powers that isn't the force since the force doesn't work like that.
7. All the mystery of the last film was shit on.

But hey, I enjoyed the movie. But like the Transformer movies, I will shit on obvious bad writing.

[mod edit: do not remove moderated content from posts after the fact]

Super Corpse Soldier · Jul 6, 2018

Vern said:
Asian girl with bad haircut I think is the main thrust of their argument.

Classy.

cdyhybrid · Jul 6, 2018

People want Force God Luke but are willing to overlook the fact that Force God Luke would never allow the First Order to grow and gain power to reach the point they're at.

If the dude can stop literal armies with the Force then the First Order has no shot. The dude would shit on Snoke himself if he were that powerful.

Civilstrife · Jul 6, 2018

Jobbs said:
This is unfair. I didn't like the movie and I thought it was a fucking mess -- It was so bad it made me stop caring about SW after being a life long fan -- And it has nothing to do with asians or women or haircuts or Luke not being badass enough. The problems were literally everything else but those things. The movie is a *fucking* mess where much of what happens and much of what people do makes no logical sense. Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

You're free to disagree and like the movie, but it's so frustrating being painted as a manbaby outraged about SJWs just because I didn't.

You know, it's strange. You seem reasonable, and like you have a good idea about what you like in the cinema and what you don't.

And yet, I can't believe we're talking about the same film. I get if people don't think it's a masterpiece. I get it being not someone's cup of tea. But a "fucking mess?", "no logical sense?" How can I and so many others (and I hate to pull this card, but the majority of film critics) not see the supposedly glaring flaws of this film?

I am not accusing you personally of any biases, and I have zero evidence that you're an "anti-SJW" type. But the strength of your (and many others') negative response to the film makes me think there's something more than regular film critique at play here. Clearly you think the movie was bad, but I'm really interested in the shape this particular "badness" takes for you and why it elicits such a strong response.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2018

BossAttack said:
And, this is where I stop trying to argue with you as once again you are arguing in bad faith.

If you're not arguing that Luke should've been there then what are you arguing? That it's possible for him to survive that situation because Kylo believes it?

BossAttack said:
I will just laugh at the combination of these last two points. First, you started with the ludicrous notion that every use of Force Power is tied to some great thematic point.

In the OTs it always had a point, these films right down to production decisions are influenced first and foremost by decisions made with the OT as they're a commentary and examination of those films. So we're back, once again, to the use of the force having a point instead of just existing for the sake of looking cool. Luke isn't in his prime, he says as much, he's literally projecting an idealized version of himself. He knows he's not capable of the things he did, but people will believe legends, as the ridiculous legends of Luke Skywalker started not even a year after he redeemed Vader, with stories of him slicing down starkillers with his lightsaber. He's playing into the legend by showing everyone something that's not actually possible for him to do. And it worked, because Kylo Ren is an idiot.

BADMAN · Jul 6, 2018

It was controversial because star wars fans couldn't handle Luke not being some sort of god among men. Also incels hate women such as Laura Dern, Daisy Ridley, and Kelly Marie Tran.

It was actually bad because the pacing and the plot structure revolving around a poorly explained chase sequence between the rebel ship and the new order.

i hate cheaters · Jul 6, 2018

Jobbs said:
Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

exactly this

i think normal people can just recognize it as a movie with poor plot development without it being too controversial

there seems to be more controversy about random star wars lore and force power stuff that only super obsessed star wars fans understand. i give that stuff a pass because it presumably serves the role of a dumb kids' movie doing dumb kids' movie things, but i have higher standards for the actual storyline

part of the problem is the rest of the movie industry also sucks at making storylines, so i guess nobody at disney/lucasfilm/wherever thinks it's a priority

Yung Kyubii · Jul 6, 2018

So i watched one hour of the legendary fan edit and the movie is decent, I don't hate it! What the hell?

Doesn't change that many of us wanted greatness from the series, and not mediocre movies.

They are mediocre at the end of the day, and if you think they are above average you will always get a suspicion look from me. Either you are too invested in the fandom (Cheebo, ZeoVGM crowd) or are fine with lower expectations.

cdyhybrid · Jul 6, 2018

Jobbs said:
This is unfair. I didn't like the movie and I thought it was a fucking mess -- It was so bad it made me stop caring about SW after being a life long fan -- And it has nothing to do with asians or women or haircuts or Luke not being badass enough. The problems were literally everything else but those things. The movie is a *fucking* mess where much of what happens and much of what people do makes no logical sense. Shockingly they had no plan at the outset and let directors make each episode up as they went along and it shoowwwsss. It's hard to take it seriously when there's no one overseeing the overall storyline who is taking it seriously.

You're free to disagree and like the movie, but it's so frustrating being painted as a manbaby outraged about SJWs just because I didn't.

I would urge you to read this article: http://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/

It explains in pretty clear detail why the plot actually makes a lot of sense and is deliberately laid out to tell a specific story.

Phendrift · Jul 6, 2018

The controversy surrounding this movie boggled my mind. It's such a big divide. Everyone irl that I know LOVED it, yet it's so controversial online. I don't get it, thought it was awesome.

Deleted member 15428 · Jul 6, 2018

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/www.vox...1844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

Deleted member 7051 · Jul 6, 2018

Civilstrife said:
I am not accusing you personally of any biases, and I have zero evidence that you're an "anti-SJW" type. But the strength of your (and many others') negative response to the film makes me think there's something more than regular film critique at play here. Clearly you think the movie was bad, but I'm really interested in the shape this particular "badness" takes for you and why it elicits such a strong response.

You just answered your own question. Look at the very first replies in this thread, too. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to be labelled sexist, racist, anti-SJW or whatever the fuck else people come up with for not liking a movie?

You say the movie elicits such a strong response from people that dislike the movie but I'd say it's the people who violently defend the movie that are worse. These are people who are so desperate to belittle and dismiss any criticism of the movie that they will gladly make it personal if you voice any.

I'd like to think that my criticisms of the movie, of this new trilogy, are relatively well enunciated and reasoned. Yet for disliking the movie I am now apparently a pariah, cast out and dismissed with accusations of sexism, racism and childish need for the movies to pander to my headcanon.

It's insulting. And it never stops.

Blind fanboyism like that fucking sucks. It's not even limited to Star Wars either. I distinctly remember Star Trek fans who also believed you had to like everything they liked and dislike everything they dislike or you're not a Star Trek fan.

The only difference is Star Wars is cool now so, like comic book movies, loads of people who didn't even like this stuff fifteen years ago because it was too nerdy are showing up in droves to loudly question why anyone would dislike the new movies.

adrem007 · Jul 6, 2018

Well I don't like it because it's bad and I hate it because the online defense force is pathetic and insecure

Shigs · Jul 6, 2018

Soapbox Killer Returns said:
Because it sucked to a great number of people including myself!

So does the prequel trilogy. So why does THIS one get so much hate focus?! There's hating a movie, then there's obsessing over it.

SK4TE · Jul 6, 2018

HTupolev said:
Playing an empty fort strategy with a projection allows him to delay the First Order's onslaught and save his friends and the rebellion, and gives him a parting word with Kylo.

If he was really there he could of killed Kylo.

Lunar Wolf · Jul 6, 2018

Brian McDoogle said:
I heard no groans in my theater in that moment. The problem with "cheesy" and "cringe" is that it is entirely personal, for whatever valid or nefarious reasons, much like what we find funny or erotic.

And, again, you're kind of applying logic and rules to a film series that never had things truly be consistent. Why is the super fast Jedi running not in the OT, or why do they only use it sometimes in the PT? Why was Anakin too old to be trained, but Luke, much older, too old as well, yet both seemed to do ok in the end? Why did midiclorians never get mentioned in the OT? I don't know what you mean by "The Force isn't the Mangyeko Sharingan" but The Force has always existed to be what it is and to do whatever the film needs it to do. The way people are suddenly trying to apply logic and rules to it to discredit Rey's use of it, or Leia's, is telling at times (not specifically accusing you of this, but just as a general statement; I want to make it clear I'm not accusing you of being sexist or anything).

I mean, Han using the lightsaber in Empire led to arguments long long back in the day before the Extended Universe took off, because people assumed only a Jedi could turn them on, when all it was in the movie was a way for Han to cut open the TaunTauns.

Edit: Or, how did Luke know we could pull the lightsaber in A New Hope? Do we see him witnessing anyone using this technique, or how would he have known about it after Obi-Wan died? (I legit don't remember, so I'm asking genuinely).

That's all easy to explain. The Force was pretty vague in the OT and the OT established concepts.

The PT fleshed them out and had a pretty good excuse for the addition of things namely the fact that the Jedi here are all extremely experienced.

The issue with Rey and Leia is that they're like OT Luke not PT Jedi yet they're throwing out all these superpowers randomly without any training. It's no longer hard work to use the Force. It's just a power that can be turned on in an emotional moment.

And like there's a vast difference between a self-taught Force user for 3 years using a simple Force Pull and a beginner using the Force to unfreeze themselves, survive space and accelerate toward a ship like a rocket. Or one using a Mind Trick, levitating a landslide of rocks and being on par with the grandson of Darth Vader (who has been training 10 years) all within a week.

I mean people had huge problems with Kid Anakin using the Force to "accidentally" blow shit up too, ya know.

kinoki · Jul 6, 2018

SK4TE said:
If he was really there he could of killed Kylo.

He could HAVE (could've) killed him. But to what end, justified Kylo's actions? And undone what he did when he chose not to kill Vader? Luke has never been a killer of Sith. He isn't about to start now.

mavericktopgun · Jul 6, 2018

signal said:

This was the worst. Omg.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2018

SK4TE said:
f he was really there he could of killed Kylo.

He would've been killed before he got the chance.

Deleted member 23158 · Jul 6, 2018

konka said:
I mean I guess based on the reaction from some people here I was expecting some abomination of Star Wars and instead I got a Star Wars movie that was strong on character development, especially with adding a new cast of rebels.

I am just baffled that the movie I just watched is what some people apparently take so much issue with. Can somebody explain...

The force awakens was a meh movie as well, but at least it gave hope for the sequel. The last jedi just confirmed what we expected the characters new and old are just uninteresting. It had 1 good fight scene, for the rest it was just meh. I don't care what happens next. Star Wars is honestly a series where even the spin-off games (KOTOR) have more interesting and fun writing than the majority of mainline movies.

Visanideth · Jul 6, 2018

I think most of the controversy is due to a lot of fans being a bit too serious or desperate about their fandom not seeing their fantasies realized mixed with that fact that there's also people who walked into the movie with an open mind who found it mediocre.

Basically it pissed off the manbabies and disappointed a lot of "normal" fans.

I just feel it's a really, really, really pretty movie with some terrific performances and a few very good bits that's also horribly written and terribly dumb.

Benzychenz · Jul 6, 2018

People don't like it because of what it is, but more what it isn't.

Basically it didn't have enough fan service.

Deleted member 7051 · Jul 6, 2018

Shigs said:
So does the prequel trilogy. So why does THIS one get so much hate focus?! There's hating a movie, then there's obsessing over it.

Who is really more obsessed with this movie? The people that don't like it or the people that jump down your throat and accuse you of being a terrible human being for not liking it?

Besides, it may have escaped your notice but the prequel trilogy came out like fifteen years ago now and people still feel the need to remind everyone how much they hate it for ruining their childhood.

Zeno · Jul 6, 2018

2San said:
The force awakens was a meh movie as well, but at least it gave hope for the sequel. The last jedi just confirmed what we expected the characters new and old are just uninteresting. It had 1 good fight scene, for the rest it was just meh. I don't care what happens next. Star Wars is honestly a series where even the spin-off games (KOTOR) have more interesting and fun writing than the majority of mainline movies.

This is kinda where I've always been at. I actually enjoy more stories in the extended universe away from the main cast more than the actual main series. I suppose it could be said I see Star Wars as a series where I enjoy the setting and potential for stories more than I like necessarily the main movies.

honest_ry · Jul 6, 2018

Because nerds think they are owed something.

InkyVulture · Jul 6, 2018

I had the same reaction , and I was also always waiting for a controversial moment. So at one point I thought Rey going down the hole would transport her to a paralell universe or something and focus only on that for the rest of the movie.

hurlex · Jul 6, 2018

I get why people might not like it, but I don't get the extreme hate by some.

Civilstrife · Jul 6, 2018

Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
Blind fanboyism like that fucking sucks. It's not even limited to Star Wars either. I distinctly remember Star Trek fans who also believed you had to like everything they liked and dislike everything they dislike or you're not a Star Trek fan.

The only difference is Star Wars is cool now so, like comic book movies, loads of people who didn't even like this stuff fifteen years ago because it was too nerdy are showing up in droves to loudly question why anyone would dislike the new movies.

But are the critics fanboys too? Critics can get it wrong. But you would think that if this movie's flaws were really so glaring, it wouldn't have received such a large number of glowing reviews, without those flaws being pointed out, discussed and dissected.

I even understand the argument that critics might be "out of touch". Not hip to the expectations attached to the franchise, or too caught up in the dogmas of their industry. But one thing they're traditionally pretty good at is recognizing deep flaws in storytelling, cinematography, casting, acting, pacing, plotting, all the elements of putting together a film. These people love movies. They study movies. And they tear some movies apart.

This isn't a simple appeal to authority. I have yet to read a critique of the film that not only explains why the film supposedly fails so horribly, but also why so many people who should be able to spot that, don't.

As for people painting all dissenters with the "anti-SJW" brush, I certainly don't see it that way, but you have to admit there is a TON of that material out there. Every other YouTube video about why the movie supposedly fails contains this kind of content. It is everywhere. If that doesn't apply to you, that's great. But it's out there and has indellibly changed the conversation.

Soapbox Killer · Jul 6, 2018

Shigs said:
So does the prequel trilogy. So why does THIS one get so much hate focus?! There's hating a movie, then there's obsessing over it.

'Obsessing" are the crazy ones and we don't make eye contact with them.. Furthermore the prequels don't suck and even if they did it would be for different reasons.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2018

Civilstrife said:
As for people painting all dissenters with the "anti-SJW" brush, I certainly don't see it that way, but you have to admit there is a TON of that material out there. Every other YouTube video about why the movie supposedly fails contains this kind of content. It is everywhere. If that doesn't apply to you, that's great. But it's out there and has indellibly changed the conversation.

Like you literally can't search a clip of TLJ without your recommendations and sidebar being bombarded with videos about how it's the biggest crime in cinema history.

Soapbox Killer Returns said:
Furthermore the prequels don't suck

Yes they do. The entire crux of Anakin's motivation is his romance with Padme, which is one of the worst romances in mainstream cinema, they never discuss anything like actual people, they never have a relatable conversation, they have zero chemistry. So the entire motivation of our protagonist is based on a relationship with zero chemistry.

I've never seen someone successfully defend this romance, at best, only the premise. Which again, is hella shaky because for some reason the PT starts when Anakin is eight years old.

Deleted member 23158 · Jul 6, 2018

Zeno said:
This is kinda where I've always been at. I actually enjoy more stories in the extended universe away from the main cast more than the actual main series. I suppose it could be said I see Star Wars as a series where I enjoy the setting and potential for stories more than I like necessarily the main movies.

Yeah the extended universe is great, at times dumb, but still good fun.

Tuck · Jul 6, 2018

Big ship chases little ship.

Big ship can't catch up to little ship for some reason.

Characters on little ship go run some errands on a planet light years away and come back, but big ship still has not caught up to little ship.

The whole sequence was stupid.

Oh also the entire movie shits on the characters from the original trilogy.

Muad'dib · Jul 6, 2018

Shigs said:
So does the prequel trilogy. So why does THIS one get so much hate focus?! There's hating a movie, then there's obsessing over it.

Prequels might suck as movies but they were more or less consistent with the lore Lucas laid out, yeah he retconned the force from pure mysticism down to biology but TLJ had way worse inconsistency with the lore.

That being said, I still kind of enjoyed the movie, could've been something way better tho.

Reyes · Jul 6, 2018

Soapbox Killer Returns said:
'Obsessing" are the crazy ones and we don't make eye contact with them.. Furthermore the prequels don't suck and even if they did it would be for different reasons.

Deleted member 35011 · Jul 6, 2018

I just sort of got turned off from the series. The movie is good at what it's trying to do, but what it tried to do wasn't really something that appealed to me much and I was never a huge fan of Star Wars to start so I kind of just shrugged and went "Eh, cool" and moved on. Plus my favorite characters from the first movie (Finn and Poe) didn't really get much to do that interested me this movie which didn't help either. I don't hate the movie but I didn't really like it, had more fun with Episode 7 and I preferred Rogue One to both. Still better than Solo though.

BossAttack · Jul 6, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
If you're not arguing that Luke should've been there then what are you arguing? That it's possible for him to survive that situation because Kylo believes it?

Reading tends to help.

Visanideth · Jul 6, 2018

BossAttack said:
Reading tends to help.

You're literally fighting windmills here, I fear.

Bengraven · Jul 6, 2018

I'm confused as well. It's my third favorite.

Cass_Se · Jul 6, 2018

House_Of_Lightning said:
Moon Worm was like, five minutes. It didn't set up a story arch to only turn around and walk it back later.

Ewoks were the beginning of the end of the franchise being any good

To be fair, canto bight is like 10 minutes long and sets up motivation for Finn to start caring about the cause, rather than his own survival/Rey. I thought it was the weakest part of the film, by far, but the hate is really overblown.

tiddles · Jul 6, 2018

Green Slime King said:
Just a lot of assholes. Movies not perfect but people are toxic. Though Fin should not have been shafted to a garbage sub plot. Like what the fuck?

On reflection, Finn should have asleep for the entire movie, and then they could have woken him up at the end so he can actually do something consequential in IX...

"Guys, wait, what did I miss? Luke Skywalker was here??"

Deleted member 2809 · Jul 6, 2018

If you say TLJ made you stop caring about star wars but the prequels didn't, you probably never liked star wars in the first place

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2018

BossAttack said:
Reading tends to help.

You;re arguing that Luke would've survived despite the film literally telegraphing that he wouldn't have stood a chance. The SW films are grounded, the characters aren't Gendy cartoons, they're incredibly fragile and that's what makes them relatable even when they're using space magic. Force "stop all damage in the surrounding area" isn't a thing that exists in SW in the same way that even the most powerful force sensitives don't see the future.

IfSleepoversCouldTalk · Jul 6, 2018

star wars fans are dumb

I just Watched The Last Jedi, why was it controversial??

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User requested account closure