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Terry Gilliam says "I tell the world now I’m a black lesbian" as he rants about diversity
- Thread starter Khanimus
- Start date
Gilliam doesn't feel threatened, he's just taking personal umbrage because his perception is that, by the BBC focusing and emphasising diversity, there is implied criticism of the old way of commissioning and by association the Pythons and Gilliam himself. But he doesn't need to feel that way. No one is criticising him (until now) and Britain is different place today, of course it is right that we open the doors to people from all walks of life - that doesn't mean that white people are excluded. Even if the Pythons came together today they wouldn't be criticised. They may have a harder time getting commissioned but I doubt that they would have been passed up ultimately.
Cleese's tweet is hilarious though. Still got it.
Cleese's tweet is hilarious though. Still got it.
Except that any and all data about diverse teams shows the exact opposite: they make better and more creative solutions, they have higher profits, and they engender empathy across demographics.
They still do, all the fucking time.
The media is dominated by white men.
The fact is that every time people even mention diversity in the media, you get people like Gilliam and you deriding it.
You are so fragile you can't even accept that others deserve to be in the industry also, and to celebrate that fact.
The irony is not lost on anyone other than those who seeing industries actually entering the 21st Century as a bad thing.
His point is badly made. But is there any case where an objectively less talented person has been given a role just to balance diversity numbers? I would think most people would take issue with that.
Yep, he could have responded better but the BBC statement that they basically wouldn't put Monty Python on the air now because they weren't diverse enough was a dumb ass statement as well.
Piling on random_polymath is kinda unnecessary. Of course you can have a group of 6 white men make a show, but today it would probably face some criticism for not being diverse enough. And, as that BBC guy said, they would not greenlight it today. Which is stupid, because if they are good, why would you not greenlight them? There should be a place for everyone, 6 white men, 6 black women, 6 of anyone, if they are good I don't care and I don't think anyone should for that matter.
Of course there is, you're naive if you don't think that some studios work like this. Withoug screaming of course. Not that I care, if they are quality choices, I'll watch it.
Of course there is, you're naive if you don't think that some studios work like this. Withoug screaming of course. Not that I care, if they are quality choices, I'll watch it.
This is a common compliant against diversity but these phantom less qualified minorities never appear.
Nah fuck him, he tripled down on his bigotry and blamed everyone else
IF they have chemistry. If the members of a team can't stand or properly communicate with each other, they probably won't do a good work either way. Wether they are diverse or not.
Yeah, it's very possible that a diverse team performs better than a non-diverse team. But chemistry is key. If they don't have that, they won't go far. That was my point.
Take Top Gear for instance. The first iteration of the cast post Clakson/Hammond/May was bad because they lacked chemistry despite the diversity. The second iteration with just LeBlanc, Harris and Reid now works fairly good because they have a chemistry.
But that is not what he said
He said if you assembled a talented group today you probably won't end up with just 6 upperclass white guys due to how the world has changed.
Less talented people get the job all the time based on their race or gender. Look at POTUS.
Lol holy shit
This thread is a shitshow
The first two sentences of this post, my god
i thought that movie was good because of hunter s thompson, depp, & del toro
I love it when people without any self awareness have usernames with shit like "polymath" in it
Interestingly enough, this actually appears to be the case. Countries with more gender equality have fewer women in STEM fields.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science...nder-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/
Is it bad to have non-white people and women? No, definitely not, but if a comedy group forms that just happens to be all white men, and they are as fantastically funny as Monty Python, why on earth would you say "nah, cannot be on BBC"? Allowing diversity and helping minorities establish themselves is a good thing. Outright enforcing it and ignoring all content made by a group of white men is beyond stupid though and Gilliam rightfully calls this bs out. However, his tone is obviously not the nicest, but I put that down to him being mad about something that is very dear to him.
"It's good that the industry is 99% white instead of 100%. But no more diversity please we've had enough thank you."
Nah. Gilliam is a very talented, but generally unfocused director.
For example, look at the Top Gear lineup. Original cast - three middle aged white men, Hammond, Clarkson and May.
New Top Gear: Two ethnic minorities and a woman alongside Chris Evans/Matt Le Blanc (two middle aged white men).
Who is to say how they were chosen? They were all in theory the very best people the BBC wanted for the role. Was that mix of diversity specifically aimed for? Who is to say who is more or less talented anyway? It's literally impossible to know the decision making process and hard to make such judgements anyway which is why so much of these kind of discussions end up more about people's individual preconceived notions and prejudices instead.
Also a good point.... eurgh Trump eurgh
no minorities need to be OVER qualified compared to a white person... it's fine for people to hire average white people but scream bloody murder about an average minority being hired as "unqualified"
It's insane that we're, like what, 3 pages into this thread and people are still pulling this out of their ass. This is not happening, i'm sure it will make you feel better if you believe this is true but it's a staight up falsehood. Please stop lying Yoshi.
What am I lying about? There is the exact quote in the op "If you're going to assemble a team now, it's not going to be six Oxbridge white blokes. It's going to be a diverse range of people who reflect the modern world," clearly stating the the Flying Circus would not fly today. If you look at additional information about the claim, you find e.g. the following quote:
"BBC Comedy now asks "What's the diversity story?"
Challenged on whether his policy meant there would be no new Pythons or Fry and Laurie-type talent coming through, Mr Allen said that he was part of "an industry-wide impetus" for people to be "telling stories that haven't been told", as with This Country and Young Offenders, which had strong roots in the Cotswolds and Northern Ireland respectively."
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...new-shows-2018-2019-shane-allen-a8406331.html
So this clearly is not a misrepresentation of what was said there. So, again, what is the lie (and if anything, I can assure you, if I did say something wrong, it definitely was not intentional)?
I get his point, but it's a shit point. He compared 'forced diversity' boy bands to Python, the inference being that they were a group with integrity. Classic boomer rockist attitude. It also minimizes the concept of multicultural friend groups, as if a diverse cast could only ever be constructed.
What he should have said was nothing.
What he should have said was nothing.
The two shows they cite are blue collar white casts(and they sound interesting). No forced black lesbians.
Okay, three things.
Saying, "We want more stuff from more diverse sources" is not invalidating white men or taking away their opportunities. The context for the person saying this is that there is already tons of comedy coming from that oxbridge background and that isn't really fair. That's the whole reason why that discussion is happening.
I didn't say they weren't talking about it. I'm saying it's not happening because it's not happening. Give me evidence of something like this actually happening. Because from my position, sketch comedy is almost entirely still white people. So why people are throwing tantrums over a quote I do not know.
The casts for This Country & Young Offenders are almost entirely white. They're also not sketch comedies either so I don't know why you're bringing them up.
I did not say it was happening though, how would I know? I have no inside view in how BBC does its dicisions, but the aggressive comment by Gilliam was an answer not to a pratice but to a public statement on it. Whether the BBC follows this procedure or not is another thing.
I understood this quote as follows: We will not commission commedy programs unless they have a diversity story to tell. It may have white people, also white hetereosexual cis-men, as main protagonists, but it needs to tell a diversity story. Maybe I misunderstand the quote, but if I do I think a more nuanced choice of words would have been in place, because as it stands, I'd see little to no room for something like Flying Cirucs in the stated policy. Of course, if diversity can be met also by "new comedic ideas", then I see no reason to complain, but given the context, it's hard to see it as that.
Shameful to hear, but at least its just Gilliam, though. He was always the most expendable Python. Cleese is still a magnificent gent.
But alas, for Gilliam though, it looks like the American in him got the better of him.
Next thing you'll tell me is that tinny words are fine.
But alas, for Gilliam though, it looks like the American in him got the better of him.
Next thing you'll tell me is that tinny words are fine.
Drives me crazy when people pull out the "I didn't own slaves!" argument. Well, no shit. It doesn't take any white guilt to recognize how that legacy still has massive negative consequences for slaves' decendants, and how poor treatment over skin color is still a thing for many other minorities too. It's about recognizimg reality and doing the right thing.
And speaking of reality, sketch comedy shows with diverse casts in mind have lead to multiple people having far more success than most of the Monty Python crew. Jamie Fox, Damon Waynes, Jim Carey, and Key and Peele for example. Even J Lo came from In Living Color's intermission dance group.
And speaking of reality, sketch comedy shows with diverse casts in mind have lead to multiple people having far more success than most of the Monty Python crew. Jamie Fox, Damon Waynes, Jim Carey, and Key and Peele for example. Even J Lo came from In Living Color's intermission dance group.
Not to add to the dog pile, but I legitimately didn't know who Gilliam was until I googled him just now, and I honestly don't remember him at all from any MP stuff. Like, I'm seeing screenshots of him in stuff and I just don't recognize him.
All the other guys? Absolutely. Even in their old age they're easy to pick out but this guy seems like he was just an extra or something? He was the 'horse' in Holy Grail right?
Edit: for clarity, I'm 33, and I've seen all of their movies, and a handful of episodes of their show, so maybe he played a bigger role in the show. *shrug*
It must suck for the other surviving members to have this clown tarnish the groups reputation. What a shitty man.
All the other guys? Absolutely. Even in their old age they're easy to pick out but this guy seems like he was just an extra or something? He was the 'horse' in Holy Grail right?
Edit: for clarity, I'm 33, and I've seen all of their movies, and a handful of episodes of their show, so maybe he played a bigger role in the show. *shrug*
It must suck for the other surviving members to have this clown tarnish the groups reputation. What a shitty man.
I dunno. Gilliam's flighty directorial style fits with the source material, and Depp and Del Toro played off each other quite well.
Sadly i'm not too suprised someone of his generation acted like that, I've seen it so much from older generations, I was hoping this behaviour would die out with these dinosaurs but now we have a new generation of Alt-Right, and Homophobic, Transphobic, Sexist etc knobs.
Going in and deciding "my sketch comedy show will only have six white guys" beforehand would be deliberately racist, sexist, and probably hurt the quality of your show too, unless you just happened to be a really talented group of prior firends. Your sketches would be rather limited in what you could do creatively compared to the competition, and you'd be potentially closing yourself off from some of the best comedians in the world.
People that rail that they decided to be a black lesbian hear what they want to hear. They could have produced a flow chart with powerpoint and get the same response from them.
He did the art and didn't appear all that often as an actor.
Wish it did but sadly it didn't and the answers are pretty blatant. Young/middle-aged white adults who feel frustrated that the system is against them look up to dinosaurs who hold disgusting views, constantly belch about "The good ol' days" and preach about how the country has gone to the shitter. Rather than re-adjsut their lives and strive to be better, they'll nod to these dinosaurs and make it their mission to continue with their backward way of life to ensure that they can get their own way again "just like the old times".
I don't know whether a choice of words that would have left room for work like Flying Circus (by an exclusively white male well-educated group) would have changed Gilliams reaction; it would have changed my valuation of his response, though. Taken verbatim, I find what the BBC guy said pretty upsetting and I can understand a harsh reaction, though the tone of Gilliam is still objectionable.
He's most well known for creating the cartoons and being King Arthur's horse sound and luggage carrier.
I think he also directed or co-directed some. So yeah, he was largely behind the scenes.
Edit: as for his comments, I'm super tired of the "I'm x now" statements. I think I find that more offensive than the rest of his misguided statement.
I mean if you want to take the BBC guy's statement as something it isn't, that is on you. But to twist it into some attack on white dudes not just wrong, it's nonsensical.
