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Canto Bight (Star Wars) vs Stormbreaker (Infinity War)

FloatOn

FloatOn

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,496
This is going to be a bit of a weird comparison but it occurred to me that two of the biggest movies in recent years (The Last Jedi and Avengers: Infinity War) both have side quests in them so that our heroes find a way to stop their respective threats.

In the case of TLJ, Finn and Rose go off to Canto Bight to find the code breaker. With Infinity War, Thor and Rocket go off to build the stormbreaker. Both of these missions ultimately fail.

Canto Bight has been critiqued pretty often but I feel that it ties into what Yoda says about failure being a great teacher. Finn finally stops being a coward but fails this time instead of being the hero like he was in Force Awakens.

Thor goes from getting his ass kicked in the beginning, goes through a trial to acquire the stormbreaker (he tanks a star) to almost turning the tide in Infinity War.

I think where Canto Bight fails and where the Storbreaker quest succeeds is in the character moments. Thor's quest has an interesting arc and when he made his appearance in Wakanda with Stormbreaker my audience actually cheered. There was some kind of payoff.

Canto Bight was just kind of a wet fart. It could have better handled the development of Finn and Rose but I don't know if it was the pacing or the script or the delivery of the acting but the whole thing just fell flat. I get that they were probably trying to get the film to breathe and I understand the message they were trying to send about failure but there needs to be some kind of payoff. Maybe we will get it in Episode 9?
 
Eidan

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,578
The difference in the two is that the Stormbreaker plot thread is naturally more appealing for audiences. We see a hero brought low in the beginning of the story, and after a journey, makes a triumphant return at a time when they're most needed. That wasn't really the point of the Canto Blight storyline, or Finn and Rose's arcs.
 
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VorpalNonsense

VorpalNonsense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,658
You already figured it out and I doubt many people will disagree with you. Stormbreaker quest was enjoyable to watch, remained relevant, and still had a good payoff even if it didn't succeed. Canto Bight felt more like a distraction and completely fizzled out with no satisfying payoff for the time wasted there.
 
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Hoot

Hoot

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,111
I think Canto Bight was also not well regarded because of it's length and execution (I know it was also one of my least favourite parts, even tho I generally enjoyed the movie).

While thematically it fits, and brings some interesting part of the universe to light (the fact at how rich warmongerer profit and keep the war going, while the kids and "lower classes" are exploited) that theme remains super surface level and almost painted in a cartoonish level. There is also this admittedly pretty stupid chase scene with pretty bad CG that gave me flashbacks of the prequels just because it seemed to have been put there just to put some artists to work.

The fact that they fail/get a different guy who turns out to be a traitor is fine in itself and I like that. But the point to get there is really kinda wonky and feels detached from the rest of the movie (it also doesn't help that Finn and Rose are just kinda the less well-utilised part of the cast, and this scene didn't really help that)

On the other hand, like you said, Stormbreaker just has stronger character moments, never veers off the point and gets you this cathartic moment of Thor getting his new weapon. Thematically it doesn't say much, but as a scene in a movie it's just that much more efficient and to the point

(although it's odd that after a full movie telling Thor that his hammer isn't who he is, he has a whole sidequest to get a new BETTER hammer. But man i'm not gonna lie if Stormbreaker is pretty cool)
 
Strangelove_77

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
13,392
I imagine that even people who like TLJ see that part of it as the major weak point...right?
 
J_Viper

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,740
Execution is what separates the two

Stormbreaker offers up great moments between Thor and Rocket, that are written and performed well. It also ends on that great scene with the actual forging of the Axe that was visually entertaining

Canto Bight can tie into whatever it wants, but it means nothing when it's poorly executed, filled with prequel-tier gags, annoying kids, and poor dialogue.
 
Mcfrank

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,232
Strangelove77 said:
I imagine that even people who like TLJ see that part of it as the major weak point...right?
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Love TLJ, think Canto Bight section is a miss. So yes for me.

Though I also think Rocket and Thor's interaction is the only thing that keeps the Stormbreaker side quest from really dragging. Dinklage in that scene is as bad as the CGI chase scene in TLJ. I also love IW.

Good comparison, OP. I think both sections are the weakest points of their movies.
 
TheXbox

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,567
I haven't seen Infinity War but it sounds like Thor has a cogent character arc. Finn does not. Regardless of what you think about the aesthetic or the themes of Canto Bight, the narrative itself is basically dysfunctional.
 
Aaronrules380

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,488
There's also the fact that stormbreaker still has the potential to be used against Thanos again in avengers 4
 
sphagnum

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
The only problems with Canto Bight are that DJ comes out of nowhere and it's not long enough. Really, it's not. Go watch the scenes in isolation. It's short and not fleshed out enough.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
This has to be the craziest comparison ever lmfao
Mjollnir is setup as a character that has a 5 movies arc for fucks sake lmfao, ofc making an even more epic weapon and then showcasing it will be hype
Canto Bight was world building about the asshole weapon dealers and in the end failed because heroes can't always win

Apples and oranges really
 
Osahi

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Wait, Stormbreaker has an arc and Canto Bight doesn't?

Have we seen the same movies?
 
ISWThunder

ISWThunder

Member
Oct 30, 2017
589
The Canto Bight stuff is just so poorly planned out. The action starts because they decide to park their fucking ship illegally right on the beach. Exactly what you do on a covert mission.
 
Nappuccino

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,026
Canto Blight is over much faster than people think, and honestly I like delToro's Charlie Chaplin-esque scum character.

My only real complaint is the "it was worth it" lines, they seem to diminish the importance of the resistance's continuing. Remove those lines (or spend a little more time showing how Canto Blight isn't just a place where rich assholes congregate, but /the/ place assholes congregate) and the sequence would have landed better.

But really, I've never understood the complaints about the section.
 
Heroicpiglet

Heroicpiglet

Avenger
Dec 22, 2017
2,067
Nothing beats thor with his back to an (maybe, i dont really know) explosion like in old action movies
 
Double 0

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
7,451
J_Viper said:
Execution is what separates the two

Stormbreaker offers up great moments between Thor and Rocket, that are written and performed well. It also ends on that great scene with the actual forging of the Axe that was visually entertaining

Canto Bight can tie into whatever it wants, but it means nothing when it's poorly executed, filled with prequel-tier gags, annoying kids, and poor dialogue.
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That's very reductive.

There is a bunch different between the two. Two notable differences is the thematic point of them (Thor rising out of his low point, a failed mission spurring an indirect positive result due to directly helping the people), and the fact that one was built around a triumphant return, the other was built on the idea that "high risk plans are high risk for a reason".
 
Emmz

Emmz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
404
The making of Stormbreaker also shows us an element of the larger universe that is relevant both to the history of the MCU and to its future. The odds of returning to Canto Bight or of it being somehow relevant to the SW universe again are... low.
 
Deleted member 21339

Deleted member 21339

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
TheXbox said:
I haven't seen Infinity War but it sounds like Thor has a cogent character arc. Finn does not. Regardless of what you think about the aesthetic or the themes of Canto Bight, the narrative itself is basically dysfunctional.
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No, Thor does not have a character arc. Stormbreaker sequence is a lot of fun though and ends in a great crowd pleasing moment.
 
Z-Beat

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
31,858
Stormbreaker didn't fail the same way Canto Bight did. Canto Bight was a complete and total failure that actually ended up making things worse. Stormbreaker at least allowed Thor to save some of his friends. There was a payoff to Stormbreaker. There was no payoff to Canto Bight, it felt like something that would've existed in the prequels, and in the grand scheme of things didn't matter in the slightest. Plus Canto Bight felt like it put the movie on hold to tell us about a different movie while Stormbreaker did not.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

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Oct 25, 2017
6,934
Thor finally got to show how tough he is when making the hammer. I liked the sequence for that alone.
 
Mariachi507

Mariachi507

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,314
What Canto Bight needed was Peter Dinklage hamming it up.

"HE NEEDS THE HAMMER"

"WHERE IS THE HANDLE?!?!?"
 
Gravemind IV

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,951
Well Stormbreaker was in line with a typical Hero's journey routine.
It ties into the 'main quest' well and has a good pay-off. Canto Bight on the other hand..
 
Double 0

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
7,451
To me, the Canto Bight complaints feels like people don't seem to understand that yes, plans can fail and make things worse. And yes, that can fit a narrative even in something like Star Wars.

Heroes are allowed to have subplots that derail the main conflict in a negative sense.

Negative pay off is still a pay off. Namely in a thematic sense.
 
Arta

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
The Stormbreaker mission had an extremely satisfying arc for Thor. It's the reason audiences responded the way they did at the end, after watching suffer physically and emotionally they want him to succeed at the end.



It was also designed by the writers so that people who were a little genre savvy would think he was being set up as the secret weapon, so things could be subverted with the snap.

The Canto Bight subplot was also done to setup a subversion, but poorly executed to the point where it feels like nonsensical busywork from an early draft of the script.
 
TheSkullPrince

TheSkullPrince

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,614
California
Double 0 said:
To me, the Canto Bight complaints feels like people don't seem to understand that yes, plans can fail and make things worse. And yes, that can fit a narrative even in something like Star Wars.

Heroes are allowed to have subplots that derail the main conflict in a negative sense.

Negative pay off is still a pay off. Namely in a thematic sense.
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ESB taught us that plans fail and that the heroes don't always win. They fail to save Han and Luke gets his ass kicked by Vader. Canto Bight was just poorly executed.
 
OP
OP
FloatOn

FloatOn

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,496
Double 0 said:
To me, the Canto Bight complaints feels like people don't seem to understand that yes, plans can fail and make things worse. And yes, that can fit a narrative even in something like Star Wars.

Heroes are allowed to have subplots that derail the main conflict in a negative sense.

Negative pay off is still a pay off. Namely in a thematic sense.
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Click to shrink...

yeah, I get what they were trying to say with the themes of failure. Canto Bight ties failure ties back to Luke and his failed Jedi academy and what Yoda says about failure being a teacher. But like many have said here and what I said in the OP I think it just a matter of execution.

Canto Bight didn't ruin TLJ for me. I consider the TLJ the second best star wars movie but that sequence could have been handled much better.
 
SolidChamp

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
OldSocksAndShoes said:
Canto Bight is easily the worst part of TLJ.
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Unquestionably. Everything about it feels so off that it's as if it were from another film entirely. The lighting and visual effects, especially during the animal chase sequence, gave me serious Harry Potter vibes. And I'm not saying that as some unreasonable hater of the movie. The film isn't horrible, just very uneven.

I don't think Rian Johnson's DP was the right fit for a SW film.

IW didn't have anything in it that clashed with the rest of the film, and certainly not Thor's excellent sideplot.
 
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Dragoon

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
Canto was just an awful moment and vastly different to Storm
- The worst part was that it was boring. Uninteresting characters and planet in space.
- Saves a bunch of animals that will get caught within 24 hours while failing the mission that is needed to save the entire resistance and leaving slave children as slaves "this was WORTH IT!!" One of the worst/dumbest lines in cinema history.
- I can understand failing, but they failed because of bad parking.
- felt like a complete waste of time, while Thor got a badass hammer
- managed to make an interesting character in VII (my favorite), boring
- could have all been ignored if people just had a normal conversation instead of #secrets

Canto was incredibly boring and one of the worst written things I've seen in movies in years. Storm-segment was a run of the mill, going through the motions Marvel segment that wasn't that interesting for me but it led into Thor getting the hammer. Failure is supposed to a be a lesson for Fin, but then he went and failed again and for whatever reason they weren't killed right then & there, kissed while the entire resistance were supposed to get killed by lazerz, and he managed to literally drag his new gf for miles as the entire First Order decided to watch them instead of you know.. fucking mercilessly killing them.
 
R0b1n

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
I think what made the Thor plot more engaging to watch is that you just know when the weapon is completed it's going to lead to a badass scene. You don't get that from Canto blight.
 
Jackpot

Jackpot

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,827
Canto Bight was just so incredibly contrived from the get-go.

They have to sneak off a ship to get to a planet to get to one guy in the entire galaxy so they can sneak onto a different ship and then sabotage a tracking device but in such a way so that nobody notices so the Rebel fleet can escape - all set against a big countdown clock.
 
Sblargh

Sblargh

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Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Strangelove77 said:
I imagine that even people who like TLJ see that part of it as the major weak point...right?
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I love this movie and that is a yes. I can appreciate it because I can see what they were going for, but that's such a weak compliment.
Execution completely not there; opportunity for Finn to actually have some resolution with Phasma not there. Kid payoff at the last scene is cool, but weaker because it wasn't properly stablished in the movie.
Given how wonderful the Rey/Luke/Kylo plot is and how ultimately everything weird about the Poe/Leia ended up resolving nicely ("why are they being such assholes to Poe? Oh, it is because he is immature and can't be trusted"); it feels really out of place that the Finn/Rose just... fizzles as someone pointed out.

Again, I can appreciate the ideas behind the plot. Finn goes out into the world to save everyone only to find out the world sucks, arms dealers profit from both sides, part of this profit is turned into cheap entertainment for the rich and child labor, the rogue scoundrel sometimes is genuinely a bad person, but in the end the heroic actions of the Jedi provide hope even in this most bleak. But then I watch the movie and it's just eeehhhh can I skip it?
 
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