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Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Can is the important word here.

What is harassment is when a colleague wanted to pull my apron at work to see how "big" I was.

Not what is happening in the OP.
Really? Then if I ever see you on the street I'll give you a smooch on the cheek and it'll be perfectly fine. /s

You don't get to gatekeep what is and isn't sexual harassment.

And just like men don't have the right to go up to a stranger woman and kiss them on the cheek, women don't have the same freedom. And people like you who downplay men's bodily integrity is an important reason why male victims of assault and harassment have trouble coming forward.

There is definitely some dishonesty in trying to use this example as a way to fight the fight that men can be sexually harrassed. Honestly it's really bugging me because as I said before, it's making a mockery of real problem scenarios.

If you want to deter people away to think people have lost their minds let's not even bother caring about when people describe stuff as harassment, then then I guess there's some success here...

You don't get to gatekeep what is and isn't sexual harassment.
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,095
Can we at least pick our battles and point out instances where this clearly wasn't ok? Like the guy who went up and groped a South American journalist on camera. That was gross. There is a different power dynamic between men and women where men can be very imposing and have a history of being aggressive and threatening. Also a social dynamic of being a man is being the one who initiates and leads intimate actions but with consent from the woman. Breaking this rule even during jokes on camera in public is seen as taboo by most and rightfully so. It is blatant blindness to try and equalize the genders in this case and say they are the same. Actually look at reality, the social dynamics of the genders, and tell me the actions of women vs men on average in these cases warrants playing these intellectual games of "what if it was reversed!" The rules about these are harsher on men for a reason. Most men won't have the same kind of emotional reaction to this where it bothers them though depending on the situation. This stuff isn't one rule fits all. I'm not excusing instances where men felt harassed by women but am trying to make the point that you can't think of these things like it's some sort of black and white has to be equal situation. Know the terrain! There are contradictions in this domain when the roles are reversed. That's just a fact of reality. Not everyone will feel the same about this particular instance. People will feel different about different situations. Does anyone think these women actually went up with the intent to harass him? I'm all for respecting people's boundaries but am also comfortable with these contradictions where depending on the situation there are guys who wont be bothered at all by this. All evidence regarding this seems to point in this direction.
is this a copypasta
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
why do you think im hand waving it? yeah dont do it its unprofessional, but that guy should be able to take action against them if he feels he has been wronged.
why have you two taken what i feel is a reasonable position. strawmanned the fuck outta it then taken tensions from 1 to 100? calm the fuck down. I'm not disagreeing that these actions can be interpreted as harassment. im saying its up to the individual whether he wants to go down that route or not. Yes people shouldn't do it, but people will do things that make others feel uncomfortable, its unavoidable. As a society we jsut have to make sure that people can take a route to serve justice if they have been wronged.

I understand that it's to him if wants to take it further or take action agaisnt them, that's not in dispute. What we have issue with is the argument you made that if the reporter doesn't feel it's harrasment then it's not harrasment. That's hand waving aside not only social conditioning and the pressure on him to "enjoy" all female touching, but also ignores that what they did was bad in the first place regardless of his reaction.

Like I could very easily shove any random woman off that tried to kiss me but that doesn't make it okay for a them to try.


I can't believe how silly this response is. It's it harrasment for a parent to hug their child at an airport who is too tired to want it after a long journey?

... ?
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
User warned: For disingenuous arguments and dismissive other forms of sexual harassment
EDIT: my original was too hot a take. I still find this thread to be a disingenuous attempt to troll feminists but my post made it seem like I was belittling the existence of male victims of sexual harassment. For that I am sorry.

To be clear on my position, men can be victims and sexual harassment is terrible.
The girls should have allowed the guy time to consent, but I don't think any significant harm was caused by the specific incident in the video. It is very different to the videos that some people have posted of a dude physically overpowering a woman to kiss her and grab her breasts when she is in clear discomfort. I have complete contempt for people trying to treat them as equivalent.

I reacted badly to the OP because it seems like people are using the situation to show the "hypocrisy" and "double standards" of "feminists" for failing to treat this as serious. As if this mild example of inappropriate behaviour is equivalent to the actual sexual harassment that many people (men and women) face in their daily lives.

This specific incident is not serious and we don't need to treat all non-consensual behaviour as if it were equivalent to pass some sort of anti harassment purity test.

There are not always clear lines to define when behaviour goes from merely inappropriate contact to sexual harassment or assault. Things that can be merely inappropriate in isolation can become more serious if they are repeated. For me this is like the actor that touched their co-star's knee on a chat show. They shouldn't do that and I hope he doesn't do it again, but let's not make it out to be a serious sexual offence or put him in the same category as Weinstein.

There are so many examples of sexual harassment (of men) that go unpunished, that I suspect raising this particular example is disingenuous.

My later posts attempt to clarify that repeated minor incidents (like cheek kisses) can go beyond inappropriate behaviour and become sexual harassment, but again that doesn't seem to be what's occuring in this video and it is very unlikely that this reporter is a victim of regular workplace sexual harassment (while I suspect many female sports journalists are repeatedly touched inappropriately on a regular basis, such that it becomes serious sexual harassment).
 
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D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
Really? Then if I ever see you on the street I'll give you a smooch on the cheek and it'll be perfectly fine. /s

You don't get to gatekeep what is and isn't sexual harassment.

And just like men don't have the right to go up to a stranger woman and kiss them on the cheek, women don't have the same freedom. And people like you who downplay men's bodily integrity is an important reason why male victims of assault and harassment have trouble coming forward.

I mean in Europe maybe, I can think of many times I've seen exactly this and it's culturally appropriate.

Case in point of you're in the market a man (let me presume) just gets finished selling your wife some item and as he says goodbye he hugs her and kisses her on the cheek is that going to be harassment?

If so be weary about visiting certain places in the world.

It is entirely between the parties involve to decide if it's harassment or not and perhaps out decision to understand if they are able to. That's all it is.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.
You think men don't get harassed? Piss off.

What's this bullshit? "Reverse harassment does not exist"?

Big news, pal: Men have bodily integrity, men don't inherently want attention and unsolicited kisses from women, and violating that integrity is no less wrong than doing the same to a woman
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.

I think moss are doing well to let a debate play out because reality is there's differences of opinion/cultural understanding but I concur. Even for male sexual harrasment... Good job guys and making the serious topic seem so pointless.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Funyarinpa you completely misread my post if you think I was downplaying actual male victims of sexual harassment and assault.

Power dynamics as in strength ? He didnt look like a strong guy and was older . It is possible for 2 women to overpower an elderly man or avg strength one

No power dynamics as in an older man hitting on younger woman is not the same as a younger woman hitting on an older man.

Older men are almost universally unopposed to such gestures, whereas younger women it's the opposite, because of myriad reasons.
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
it's only considered harassment if the person objects to the particular behavior...the guy didn't object so it's fine
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
The reporter not caring doesn't mean it was ok. The two women kissing him couldn't know whether he was ok with it beforehand and did it anyway. If the roles were reveresed this thread would have a different tune to it.
it's only considered harassment if the person objects to the particular behavior...the guy didn't object so it's fine
But you can't know wether the person you perform that action on considers it harassment or not beforehand. The action without asking the other person for their consent stays the same. You don't just take a gamble and kiss random people on the street because of that.
You'd be in custody real fast.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
I mean in Europe maybe, I can think of many times I've seen exactly this and it's culturally appropriate.

Case in point of you're in the market a man (let me presume) just gets finished selling your wife some item and as he says goodbye he hugs her and kisses her on the cheek is that going to be harassment?

If so be weary about visiting certain places in the world.

It is entirely between the parties involve to decide if it's harassment or not and perhaps out decision to understand if they are able to. That's all it is.
Again, different situation. If there's a trade going on, that means some level of communication has been established, and then cultural customs can influence what is and isn't appropriate. It's not the same as a stranger walking up to the reporter and kissing them.

Funyarinpa you completely misread my post if you think I was downplaying actual male victims of sexual harassment and assault.

You're just supporting messages perpetuated by toxic masculinity. Women can make men feel unsafe too and going "This isn't as bad as a woman getting harassed" just downplays that fact and implies that all guys want advances from women on some level.

You're also implying that a man would inherently have power over a women even when getting harassed and that's just wrong.

E: And if by "actual male victims" you're saying that you wouldn't consider something like this harassment, I don't really have anything else to tell you. I hope you're more empathetic towards the actual men in your life.
 
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Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.

That's not what the argument is about.

There are people in this thread (the very first post in fact) arguing that it's okay for women to randomly kiss or sexually harrass men doing their jobs because of the power dynamic. That's very much actually not okay and a lot of men would and do have a problem with that.

Whether or not women have it worse when it comes to harrasment is utterly irreleveant when it comes to the case in hand. No one denies that, what are talking about?
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
I said the same thing about the kiss at the end of Last Jedi, you don't fucking grab and kiss someone without their consent like that and maybe if popular media stopped showing it as something romantic or whatever and we had better education on this stuff people would be more clued in. Here though (and of course because it's in real life) it's worse because it's just a stranger, you have no idea of if they have a history of being abuse victims or trauma or anything before doing that. This doesn't just go for men, it goes for everyone
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030
The reporter not caring doesn't mean it was ok. The two women kissing him couldn't know whether he was ok with it beforehand and did it anyway. If the roles were reveresed this thread would have a different tune to it.
How can you say he didn't care? Because he laughed?

Are you his friend, did he personally tell you?

The women assaulted by Harvey Weinstein also "didn't care" at the time. It was normal, it was expected, they could have said no (and end their careers).

You don't go and kiss a stranger on the street. End of story.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
How can you say he didn't care? Because he laughed?

Are you his friend, did he personally tell you?

The women assaulted by Harvey Weinstein also "didn't care" at the time. It was normal, it was expected, they could have said no (and end their careers).

You don't go and kiss a stranger on the street. End of story.
Did you actually read what I wrote? We are on the same page. Did you not even read the first sentence completely?
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
Again, different situation. If there's a trade going on, that means some level of communication has been established, and then cultural customs can influence what is and isn't appropriate. It's not the same as a stranger walking up to the reporter and kissing them.



You're just supporting messages perpetuated by toxic masculinity. Women can make men feel unsafe too and going "This isn't as bad as a woman getting harassed" just downplays that fact and implies that all guys want advances from women on some level.

We can debate the naunces of whether or not what happened in the OP is harrasment or not (which is what I'm trying to do), but if the position is concretely, harrassment is harrassment this is as bad as rape... Then that is what bugs me.

Imagine we are debating simply, should those women have done it, instead of figuring out if we can call it harrassment?

Probably not, it's incredibly cheeky. A bit of attention seeking and I do wonder if this guy happy about it, doesn't care at all or his peers tease him. I can get that much...

But to call a kiss on the cheek in europe "sexual harrassment" anywhere near similar as tit grabbing dude is... Out there to me.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
If the dude was ok with it, lets not waste time and resources chasing women and trying to put them in prison or ruining their lives. There's weird MRA vibe in here from people wanting these women to face consequences.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Yes it is. It's exactly the same thing.

Completely disagree.

Women, especially younger women , have been harassed and oppressed since the dawn of time. Men are classic slimeballs, and women need to always be on guard for gross behaviour that men know they can get away with, becUse they don't respect women.

Young women pecking a 40 soe thing male reporter on the cheek is absolutely not the same thing.
 

Deepthought_

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,992
Funyarinpa you completely misread my post if you think I was downplaying actual male victims of sexual harassment and assault.



No power dynamics as in an older man hitting on younger woman is not the same as a younger woman hitting on an older man.

Older men are almost universally unopposed to such gestures, whereas younger women it's the opposite, because of myriad reasons.

Are you saying younger women are looked at as weak and susceptible to older men . I think older men if in positions of authority might wrongly try and coerce younger women or think they can get away with being creeps.

However just trying to get to know or talk to a younger women in regular settings like a bar , club outside of positions of authority I think its all equal
 

Smilin Commander

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 5, 2018
70
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.


Use the report function if you feel so inclined to
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.
In this context saying "boys are vitcims too" is not trying to derail or excuse some behaviour. Nobody is ignoring th suffering of women in here, this thread just isn't about the suffering of women. Nobody said it's a symbol of systemic oppression.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
If the dude was ok with it, lets not waste time and resources chasing women and trying to put them in prison or ruining their lives. There's weird MRA vibe in here from people wanting these women to face consequences.

I'm tempted to believe it's peoplw deliberately trolling to show how rediculous some people can be as progressives. It happens in other topics, why not here?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,888
The problem people have is the word "harassment".

Let's look at the situation itself.

It doesn't matter if the reporter wasn't harrassed. The people who invaded his space had no idea if he would find this inappropriate or invasive, so they shouldn't have done it.

I know people who have PTSD from child hood abuse and find contact with strangers actually painful, and others who have had none find close contact uncomfortable to the point it's distressing, you should never assume a person will be okay with uninvited contact.

If a guy catcalls a girl it's a form of harassment, my partner was approached by a guy who told he he wanted to "lick her pussy". This is sexual harrasment.

Picture a guy walking up to a girl and kissing her on the cheek without her asking. It's no different.

It doesn't matter if it's culture, it doesn't matter if most people are ok with it, we need to be mindful of those who would find it painful, distressing, and harmful.

Consent, with ALL things.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,648
If the dude was ok with it, lets not waste time and resources chasing women and trying to put them in prison or ruining their lives. There's weird MRA vibe in here from people wanting these women to face consequences.
This, and those women have probably been exposed to a lot of sexism in their lives where the perpetrators will never get any sort of justice so people should be calling for an end to sexism, if people are just calling for these women to be punished they are missing the picture. If you punished these women there would still be a HUGE imbalance on the male side s far as sexism so it's kinda like get your house in order before criticizing someone else's.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Yea, I've definitely noticed a slight double standard with this sort of thing. As an example, if you watch enough TV interviews and regularly watch stuff like Graham Norton's show, female actresses have many a time randomly and forcibly kissed, touched, caressed or manhandled the male guests sitting next to them, and I can only imagine that if it was roles reversed, a much bigger issue might have been made of it.

Now obviously the male guests in question didn't react in any negative way or anything like that, but it is of course a fine line. I'm not sure how in that instance said female guests could have known these other male (and at times even female) guests (who are usually not even co-stars) wouldn't have minded, but I almost feel like there's a social and cultural difference in perception that dictates men automatically don't or wouldn't mind, or that it's simply not as egregious either way.

In reality, there probably is some truth to that, in the sense that more men probably are much less likely to mind that sort of thing, but some still do and will, so there needs to be a bit of a cultural re-assessment on this perception, to account for that.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,106
Would you say the same thing if it were a Woman? honest question

Yes.

That said, it is "funny" that we (this forum) are asking this only when it happens to a guy, and ignore it when it happens to a woman. Men continue to only care about other men, and not give a shit about women, evidently.

Please.
The only reason why this happens is because when it's men people tend to have different opinions, when it's women the consensus would be unanimous.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Completely disagree.

Women, especially younger women , have been harassed and oppressed since the dawn of time. Men are classic slimeballs, and women need to always be on guard for gross behaviour that men know they can get away with, becUse they don't respect women.

Young women pecking a 40 soe thing male reporter on the cheek is absolutely not the same thing.
They didn't respect his privacy. Like at all. If he was not ok with it, which they couldn't know before they kissed him, it would be harassment. They didn't care. If a man didn't care in this situation it would rightfully be interpreted as malicious, why not here?
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
You're just supporting messages perpetuated by toxic masculinity. Women can make men feel unsafe too and going "This isn't as bad as a woman getting harassed" just downplays that fact and implies that all guys want advances from women on some level.

You're also implying that a man would inherently have power over a women even when getting harassed and that's just wrong.

E: And if by "actual male victims" you're saying that you wouldn't consider something like this harassment, I don't really have anything else to tell you. I hope you're more empathetic towards the actual men in your life.
I don't think we will agree, and the way you read my posts is pretty disconcerting.

I already had female collegues feel me up, I know it it means to be harassed and i would never downplay real victims of harassment.

Seeing this video and launching a mens rights crusade is ridiculous.
 
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mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
three strawman posts in a row
Keep on pushing that narrative you naive fool.

Men are definitly more proactive to get pissy about harassment if the victim is a woman as opposed to a man.

It is harder to tell how women react to this on the net but considering that IRL they also treat it differently I'm confident in saying your social skills are lacking.

You need to step up and learn how to read a crowd.
 

Nerdyone

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,723
If I get an unexpected kiss and I like it, it's not harrasment. If I don't like it then it is. It's a pretty easy definition.
 

bruhh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
269
Is it ok if a woman gets kissed by 2 short weak guys? That way she doesn't have to be scared about the power difference.
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
We can debate the naunces of whether or not what happened in the OP is harrasment or not (which is what I'm trying to do), but if the position is concretely, harrassment is harrassment this is as bad as rape... Then that is what bugs me.

Imagine we are debating simply, should those women have done it, instead of figuring out if we can call it harrassment?

Probably not, it's incredibly cheeky. A bit of attention seeking and I do wonder if this guy happy about it, doesn't care at all or his peers tease him. I can get that much...

But to call a kiss on the cheek in europe "sexual harrassment" anywhere near similar as tit grabbing dude is... Out there to me.
I'm not trying to equate harassment to rape.

I'm also not saying that groping/upskirting/the like is equal to what's happening here.

But here, in this very thread, we have people going "if he enjoyed it that's what matters" or "eh it's just a kiss lol".

(Sexual) harassment is violating someone's personal space or demeaning them in a (sexual) way.

Especially for men, partly due to how many men behave and partly due to how society excepts men to be very sexual, there's a general, institutional, societal, cultural, sexist assumption and expectation that men should/would enjoy sexual advances on them by women.

Men have sexual agency too. Men can not want to be touched physically or kissed by a stranger, too. And if institutional sexism is what it takes for people to not handwave this away even in relatively minor occasions, men are expected to always be willing for sexual contact.

Doubting that this is harassment in some capacity is what is really out there to me. It's deliberately violating someone's personal space.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
If I get an unexpected kiss and I like it, it's not harrasment. If I don't like it then it is. It's a pretty easy definition.
But the one doing the kissing doesn't know whether they will be harassing you by doing it or not and they do it anyway. The lack of any consideration of consent is what's the problem here.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
Canada
You think men don't get harassed? Piss off.

What's this bullshit? "Reverse harassment does not exist"?

Big news, pal: Men have bodily integrity, men don't inherently want attention and unsolicited kisses from women, and violating that integrity is no less wrong than doing the same to a woman

Let's not pretend men and women are equal yet. If we "gave you" calling this complete and total sexual harassment (jail-worthy even, let's say, like someone already mentioned >___>;; ), I wonder how much further women could take the #metoo movement; because I'm sure a good fucking majority of women on the PLANET could throw men under the bus then; I can practically guarantee this shit happens to girls faaaaar worse and faaaar more often.

it doesn't make it right. But I'm really not sure what sorta mileage this gets besides being a great story for debate and a good learning lesson for people to do better.

Astro above got it right. Consent on all things. ....Shame we ain't there yet, for everyone...
 

Nerdyone

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,723
Have you never leaned in to kiss someone you're on a date with? Did they have to go BEEP BOOP KISSING IS NOW ALLOWED AT THIS STAGE OF THE DATE

I know plenty of girls that think asking permission to kiss on the first date is a total mood killer.

You can't just say ALL INTERACTIONS MUST HAVE VERBAL CONSENT as a blanket statement and think that solves anything.
Totally agree. Context is key
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Women, especially younger women , have been harassed and oppressed since the dawn of time. Men are classic slimeballs, and women need to always be on guard for gross behaviour that men know they can get away with, becUse they don't respect women.

Young women pecking a 40 soe thing male reporter on the cheek is absolutely not the same thing.
So a man's privacy being violated suddenly doesn't matter because he has to be a classic slimeball who doesn't respect women. Gotcha.

Guess what? I bet those women thought they could get away with it too because society also instills in us that men are always willing to have sexual contact so violating the privacy of a "40 soe thing male reporter" isn't the same thing.

I don't deny that the scale women face it is a problem of its own but the way people in this thread are going "he's not oppressed so it doesn't matter" is frankly very disturbing.

I'd be against this if it was two men and a female reporter too. Not just because it perpetuates sexism against women, but also because someone presumptuously violated their privacy.

 

passepied joe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.
Yikes
 

Deleted member 8861

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,564
Let's not pretend men and women are equal yet. If we "gave you" calling this complete and total sexual harassment (jail-worthy even, let's say, like someone already mentioned >___>;; ), I wonder how much further women could take the #metoo movement; because I'm sure a good fucking majority of women on the PLANET could throw men under the bus then; I can practically guarantee this shit happens to girls faaaaar worse and faaaar more often.

it doesn't make it right. But I'm really not sure what sorta mileage this gets besides being a great story for debate and a good learning lesson for people to do better.

Astro above got it right. Consent on all things. ....Shame we ain't there yet, for everyone...
I'd be behind #MeToo in indicting as many harassers (by which I mean especially the men) as there are. I don't deny women are harassed far more often. But men who are harassed are also ignored by society, in a different way.

I understand sexual harassment as having degrees, if that is wrong, I'll simply call it harassment. I never claimed it required jail, because I can recognize that there's a difference between this and groping (and worse). And I'm all for calling out all men who do shit like this, in case people thought I only felt this was about men or something.

E: And as for mileage, stressing that acts like this is wrong spreads the fact that men aren't all creatures who are always open to women's advances by default. This in turn emphasizes that men can be weak and sensitive too, and that helps dismantle toxic masculinity.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,888
I'm surprised there hasn't been mass bannings in this thread due to all the guys trying to say "but boys are victims too". This is some "white lives matter too" shit that ignores the suffering that many women face daily so they can boast, "well technically, this is harassment too so why aren't you getting upset!" This is literally one guy getting kissed lightly on the cheek by a couple of drunk girls after a world cup game. It's not symbolic of a widespread culture of systematic oppression.

What next, are we gonna hate women for using gendered hate speech when they call a guy a dick? I mean, if guys can't call women cunts then dick should be just as bad too, right?

Or maybe we should learn to use some fucking context.

The actual context you need to understand is that, regarldesss of gender, a person may find uninvited contact distressing or harmful.

It's not hard.
 

LogicAirForce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
936
... Or take my word for it when I say it wasn't harrasment? This is my point, seeing harrasment where there isn't a way to fight it out of society.



I can't believe how silly this response is. It's it harrasment for a parent to hug their child at an airport who is too tired to want it after a long journey?
Ok so you aren't actually arguing in good faith. Yes a parent hugging an irritable and tired child is totally the same thing as two grown women kissing a a guy without his consent. Or two little girls forcibly kissing a little boy clearly struggling against them. Absolute genius you are.
 

Deepthought_

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,992
If this isn't considered harassment then I don't see how men and women will ever be treated as equals

Women still do receive far more harassment but depending on the context and situation it will always be one sided
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
So a man's privacy being violated suddenly doesn't matter because he has to be a classic slimeball who doesn't respect women. Gotcha.

Trying to argue it's exactly the same thing should sound ridiculous to anyone who has lived in society and talked to any men. Trying to say it's toxic masculinity to downplay a kiss on the cheek in this case is also ridiculous, because look at the guys reaction.