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Lord Arcadio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
GG just jumped on this afterwards, let's not mix up everything.

This. There is a lot of misinformation being spread here. The situation had already exploded by the time GG got themselves involved. Regardless of their involvement, the devs were hostile toward community members for no justifiable reason. They tried to make this a sexism issue when it wasn't at all.
 

Deleted member 2913

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,126
Worker is rude to customer, gets fired for it. Didn't she also say she was glad TB was dead? Sounds like she deserved it.

Dunno what GG has to do with her being an ass.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,743
Did you even do your research on what she did? Yes, she didn't deserve the firing but if you were to take a look at the Twitter thread if it's not deleted, she bashed some thoughts of a person who was respectful while she was doing an AMA. The person simply wanted to provide some input, but she basically said you don't know what you're doing cause I have more experience than you. The commentator didn't mean in anyway to offend and his comments could not be read as such
The person wanted to explain branching dialogue to an experienced game dev - coating it in politeness doesn't change the fact the person was trying to explain her job to her, something female devs especially have to deal with all the time. I don't know about you, but I've had to deal with people with no experience trying to tell me about my field of expertise before and it is rude. Full Stop. You wouldn't go to a mechanic and tell them how to fix a car cus you like cars, you wouldn't go to a doctor and tell them how to cure people cus you read a few articles, and you wouldn't tell a chef how to cook cus you like food. So the dev was a bit rude in response, but just cus the original commentater was polite in tone, didn't mean the message was actually polite.
 

Springy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,213
Alright.

Seems like the person in question has said some questionable shit in the past as well so that could put her in "thin ice" territory. Also whether you take that into account, or think she deserves or don't deserve to be fired, she was very unprofessional here, that in itself is not in question at least.
The fact her colleague was also fired for being verbally supportive of her in this instance illustrates how she was absolutely not fired for being on thin ice, unless he was also making similar comments in the past.

This was purely about this event.
 

TheWickedSoul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,156
They shouldn't have been fired, makes Arenanet look weak.


Funny how the last threads were locked but some mods and admins were retweeting these articles.
 

Brick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
978
This. There is a lot of misinformation being spread here. The situation had already exploded by the time GG got themselves involved. Regardless of their involvement, the devs were hostile toward community members for no justifiable reason. They tried to make this a sexism issue when it wasn't at all.

I wish this was actually understood by people. Her being fired and the GG response are two separate topics that both sides want to muddy, for whatever reason.
 

1080peace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,148
Why are you taking my comment out of context? I mention in the beginning that she didn't deserve the firing and yet you are bashing me for defending it.
The 'people defending this are terrible' part was not aimed at you, but at some people in this thread. Just used your comment as a jumping off point, but I can see how it could be interpreted differently, sorry.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
what you mean a woman in an industry that is openly hostile to women gets upset when someone mansplains her job to her being rude?

why i never.
So that was manplaing? how does one ask a question or talk about something or explain a personal viewpoint. Without it being constructed into manplaining? because that term gets abused and is used as a blanket term to stop discussions.


Which was unneeded given the context.
 

Freddo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,639
Småland, Sweden
Baffling. You've got an open Twitter and you ask people to talk to you on an AMA and then act like a giant child when then they do just that. The guy who engaged a discussion with her was nothing but polite.

It doesn't matter if your male or female, she was just a dick. Acting like she's acted and then hiding behind the female card undermines years of hard work by people trying to get gender equality.

Set your Twitter to private if you don't want anyone replying or reading it. The whole fucking point of social media where you set your content to allow everyone to comment on it is that you're expecting people to comment on it.
 
Jun 6, 2018
57
User Banned (Permanent): Misogyny, prior history of severe infractions, account still in junior phase.
If the genders were reversed you'd be calling for the writers' heads. Nice to know you should be able to get away with unprovokedly attacking one of your fans out of nowhere if you have a vagina.
 

SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
He was not even mansplaining. Do you understand what the context of their twitter exchange was?

right excuse me if i don't take a gamer coming into the discussion in good faith.

she's even explicitly said that's the type of shit she gets all the time and so do other women in the industry. it's not a fucking secret that women in gaming are treated like they are lesser and don't know anything about the games or the industry they work in.

here's the mansplaining card

here's the rebuttal without a rebuttal post.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,267
South of San Francisco
The fact her colleague was also fired for being verbally supportive of her in this instance illustrates how she was absolutelynot fired for being on thin ice, unless he was also making similar comments in the past.

This was purely about this event.
This.

Regardless of her earlier comments, this was 100% about this one singular situation. This wasn't a gradual build-up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,651
If I was an asshole to one of my employer's customers regarding my job's products, even if it was on my personal account, I would get fired.

Cut the bullshit. You may have assholes jumping on the train after the fact, but they're irrelevant. She earned this.
And I don't appreciate how multiple factions are jumping in to overcomplicate and control the narrative here.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Worker is rude to customer, gets fired for it. Didn't she also say she was glad TB was dead? Sounds like she deserved it.

Dunno what GG has to do with her being an ass.
Honestly my second impression of the situation was that Arena was looking for any reason to fire her because most people would get a slap on the wrist like a public scolding for this. If she has a problem filtering her statements after a guy recently passed her filter at work could be lacking as well even if not as extreme as expressing happiness over a celebrity with an overbearing ego passing away.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
The way she reacted to that fan is frankly embarrassing. I dont know whether or not she deserved to be fired but that response of hers to the fan is pathetic.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,686
She said she was glad he couldn't hurt people anymore.

Y'all need to stop trying to make this about TB. People are allowed to still be bitter about some of the shittier things he did in the past.

Dude... are you being serious? She said she was happy he was dead without directly stating it. Like come on this isn't rocket science.
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
The fact her colleague was also fired for being verbally supportive of her in this instance illustrates how she was absolutely not fired for being on thin ice, unless he was also making similar comments in the past.

This was purely about this event.

I don't have a big problem if her firing is based purely on this incident, as in other industries I've seen people get fired for similar behaviour, but I'm still not convinced this is the case. Him I do believe is fired purely for this incident, as in being associated to it and the dev wants to get rid of said associations. I do not for a second believe the dev buckled under GG pressure as many people have already pointed out that GG wasn't in the picture when it happened.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,648
Her reply certainly didn't help things when she tried to explain her reasoning. Honestly just made he firing more justified.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
It's easy to use GG as a scapegoat for this situation but she really acted unprofessionally. From what I saw the youtuber was respectfully disagreeing and she tried to play the female dev card instead of keeping the conversation going or just going "we'll just have to agree to disagree" or whatever. When you work for a game studio, or anywhere really, you can't be a condescending jerk to your customers especially one that's not behaving poorly, that's one of the quickest ways to get fired.

I know any whiff of GG/alt right is enough to send this place into a blind rage but calm down and actually look at what happened. Those idiots got involved after she did this, as they will usually do. It feels like a bit of a reach to put the blame on them for her firing when she's the one who screwed up.
 

MicH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,497
I feel like everyone in this story acted completely ridiculous and/or unprofessional except the YouTuber. What the heck?
 

KLoWn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,890
Another thread about this?

She was an absolute asshole towards her customers and represented her company in a horrible horrible way and got fired as a result of it. What is there to discuss?
If I were to act like that at my workplace I'd be kicked out of there extremely fast.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
The person wanted to explain branching dialogue to an experienced game dev - coating it in politeness doesn't change the fact the person was trying to explain her job to her, something female devs especially have to deal with all the time. I don't know about you, but I've had to deal with people with no experience trying to tell me about my field of expertise before and it is rude. Full Stop. You wouldn't go to a mechanic and tell them how to fix a car cus you like cars, you wouldn't go to a doctor and tell them how to cure people cus you read a few articles, and you wouldn't tell a chef how to cook cus you like food. So the dev was a bit rude in response, but just cus the original commentater was polite in tone, didn't mean the message was actually polite.
I agree. You shouldn't go to people of trade skills with more experience and tell them what to do.

However, I agree with Denior's comments regarding crafting an RPG using branching. Just because Denior does not have MMORPG development experience, does not mean that his comments based off of crafting stories in RPGs by playing tabletop games such as DnD cannot offer a bit of insight. Sure, you can think of it as a coating of politeness to tell them what they're doing, but I saw a good point of discussion and a start of a debate. Not everything has to be black or white.
 

scrabble

Banned
May 8, 2018
150
This is not someone I think anti GG's should be rallying behind. The guy voicing his opinion was completely respectful. Berating him and calling him a rando because you can't take criticism is sociopathic and shouldn't be tolerated for a team working on an MMO that requires back and forth between fans and developers.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
On the flipside, if ArenaNet was indeed pressured by GG, they're both better off not working for these guys.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,328
Not very professional, no. But I have seen the likes of David Jaffe, Kamiya and Cliffy B calling people much worse, but somehow the cesspools on Reddit aren't knocking on their doors. I wonder why hm.
Might depend on who they insult and what the context was. That the guy who made the polite tweets is a big name in GW2 community sure doesn't help.
Also not like men are immune to this, see Adam Orth or Phil Fish
 
OP
OP
Don Fluffles

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,060
It's easy to use GG as a scapegoat for this situation but she really acted unprofessionally. From what I saw the youtuber was respectfully disagreeing and she tried to play the female dev card instead of keeping the conversation going or just going "we'll just have to agree to disagree" or whatever. When you work for a game studio, or anywhere really, you can't be a condescending jerk to your customers especially one that's not behaving poorly, that's one of the quickest ways to get fired.

I know any whiff of GG/alt right is enough to send this place into a blind rage but calm down and actually look at what happened. Those idiots got involved after she did this, as they will usually do. It feels like a bit of a reach to put the blame on them for her firing when she's the one who screwed up.

And yet Kingdom Come director and gater pig Vavra acted like a dick on twitter when responding to criticisms and he still has his job.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
right excuse me if i don't take a gamer coming into the discussion in good faith.

she's even explicitly said that's the type of shit she gets all the time and so do other women in the industry. it's not a fucking secret that women in gaming are treated like they are lesser and don't know anything about the games or the industry they work in.



here's the rebuttal without a rebuttal post.
So she's jaded from the jump and can't take criticism? so it's okay to be rude? when the optics look like your attacking someone and calling them names. When they didn't all. I mean do you think other devs don't get those type of questions? did you see them response that way? fan bases almost always think some thing thing could be better and at least this time it wasn't "fuck you, you suck" or "your a lazy developer".
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,743
I feel like everyone in this story acted completely ridiculous and/or unprofessional except the YouTuber. What the heck?
I mean the Youtuber brought it to reddit and encouraged a pile on, when they could have just brought it to management if they really had that big an issue. Also explainig branching dialogue to an experience narrative designer is ridiculous,
 

Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
3,736
When will people learn that venting on social media isn't a good idea if you are holding a stable job.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
I feel like everyone in this story acted completely ridiculous and/or unprofessional except the YouTuber. What the heck?

lol for once we get a story like this and the youtuber isn't the one who's behaving shamefully. What a weird twist.

And yet Kingdom Come director and gater pig Vavra acted like a dick on twitter when responding to criticisms and he still has his job.

He's owner or co owner of the studio I believe so he has a lot more rope to hang himself with than a common employee does.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,722
I mean the Youtuber brought it to reddit and encouraged a pile on, when they could have just brought it to management if they really had that big an issue. Also explainig branching dialogue to an experience narrative designer is ridiculous,
Did he really? May I ask to see the reddit thread where he asked to pile on?
 

Wanderer5

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,986
Somewhere.
She didn't handle it well and was very rude, but it still damn sucks that GGs rear their ugly heads in this community. :(
 

FuriousChipmunk

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
132
Indianapolis
If you list your company on your twitter and then be rude to a customer, youre gonna have a bad time. How this is a shocker to people in this day and age amazes me.
 

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
If I was an asshole to one of my employer's customers regarding my job's products, even if it was on my personal account, I would get fired.

Cut the bullshit. You may have assholes jumping on the train after the fact, but she earned this.

My sentiments exactly. I couldn't get away with it in my job, I would get fired right away.
 

Got Danny

Member
Nov 8, 2017
832
Do ppl really think she's blameless or just want to jump on any chance to say fuck gamergate?
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
I mean the Youtuber brought it to reddit and encouraged a pile on, when they could have just brought it to management if they really had that big an issue. Also explainig branching dialogue to an experience narrative designer is ridiculous,
It's not that ridiculous at all, it's like explaining their point of view on it. No matter how experienced, doesn't mean your a untouchable god.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,648
right excuse me if i don't take a gamer coming into the discussion in good faith.

she's even explicitly said that's the type of shit she gets all the time and so do other women in the industry. it's not a fucking secret that women in gaming are treated like they are lesser and don't know anything about the games or the industry they work in.



here's the rebuttal without a rebuttal post.

What type of "shit"? Having a person leave a polite conversation starter on her twitter and then having her get mad when she felt attacked? The reply was not belittling her job or as a women and clearly felt like he was making conversation - not explaining how to do her job.
 

SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
So she's jaded from the jump and can't take criticism? so it's okay to be rude? when the optics look like your attacking someone and calling them names. When they didn't all. I mean do you think other devs don't get those type of questions? did you see them response that way? fan bases almost always think some thing thing could be better and at least this time it wasn't "fuck you, you suck" or "your a lazy developer".

just read this because it explains it better than i ever could.

The person wanted to explain branching dialogue to an experienced game dev - coating it in politeness doesn't change the fact the person was trying to explain her job to her, something female devs especially have to deal with all the time. I don't know about you, but I've had to deal with people with no experience trying to tell me about my field of expertise before and it is rude. Full Stop. You wouldn't go to a mechanic and tell them how to fix a car cus you like cars, you wouldn't go to a doctor and tell them how to cure people cus you read a few articles, and you wouldn't tell a chef how to cook cus you like food. So the dev was a bit rude in response, but just cus the original commentater was polite in tone, didn't mean the message was actually polite.


this shit isn't the first time it happens. again women in gaming are not seen as experienced or knowledgeable. It is an absolutely toxic industry for women to work in. the "Just Asking Questions" thing gets really fucking old if it constantly happens to you.
 
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