Kotaku: GW2 writers fired after Twitter argument. GG pressured firing.

Decarb · Jul 8, 2018

I saw the twitter exchange earlier in one of Yongyea's videos and the responses she gave made my blood boil. Props to the guy who tried to remain calm throughout.

Also lol@ comparing her to Jaffe, Kamiya and Cliffy. Maybe she can throw shades at people and call them asshats when she opens her own studio and can't get fired anymore.

1080peace · Jul 8, 2018

Nome said:
They should probably also stay off social media.

Like you shouldn't play multiplayer games because apparently you're very toxic to other players? I find this gatekeeping of yours very strange. People can and should make mistakes and learn from those experiences.

Kaguya · Jul 8, 2018

ParanoidRED said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMist...tent=player_twitch_logo&tt_medium=clips_embed

Day before he tweeted her lol

This just feels bad to watch with all that happened after. :(

Winterreise said:
Please feel free to work that into the regulations of your company, then. ArenaNet is free to have their own expectations of their employees, and I'm sure they are very well documented and trained on.

There's zero chance they don't have that covered in their contracts.

Bhonar · Jul 8, 2018

Nome said:
Sorry, guess I left out that I worked at Riot, and Riot was in my name, hahahahaha.

oh lol okay gotcha

daybreak · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
It's not a company twitter. It's their own Twitter account. It's not like the Guild Wars 2 twitter said this shit.

Folks, think about this for more than five fucking seconds. Now that this has happened, Reddit and Gamergate smell blood. They know all they have to do to get someone fired is annoy them enough that they lash out on Twitter. This is a big fucking deal and it sets an extremely bad precedent for the industry moving forward.

The issue is that you're trying to make this out as if ArenaNet gave in to GG or the public backlash, when in reality they made it clear that these two employees were terminated for not upholding their standards for community engagement. The public has made this about GG or gender, not ArenaNet. They have to uphold their standards equally amongst all of their employees.

Stop trying to make this anything other than an employee not abiding by their employer's set expectations. They screwed up, and were (completely justifiably) let go. That's it.

El Bombastico · Jul 8, 2018

1080peace said:
Like you shouldn't play multiplayer games because apparently you're very toxic to other players? I find this gatekeeping of yours very strange. People can and should make mistakes and learn from those experiences.

Here's hoping she learns from this then...

Jangowuzhere · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
People should be free to say what they want on Twitter and not have it affect their employment as long as they aren't being racist, sexist or homophobic. You want to be a dickhead to a dev on Twitter, they should have the right to tell you you're being a dickhead and not fear for their jobs. The customer is not always right.

That's a completely outdated way of thinking now.

People should be mindful of what they write on social media. That drum has been beaten for over a decade at this point, and it's not something that will ever go away.

Deleted member 1476 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
It's not a company twitter. It's their own Twitter account. It's not like the Guild Wars 2 twitter said this shit.

Folks, think about this for more than five fucking seconds. Now that this has happened, Reddit and Gamergate smell blood. They know all they have to do to get someone fired is annoy them enough that they lash out on Twitter. This is a big fucking deal and it sets an extremely bad precedent for the industry moving forward.

You mean like in the real world? If you embarass your company, anywhere, you're fucked. This is not new, by a long shot.

I still remember that woman that tweeted "Going to Africa, I hope I don't get AIDS!".

Now she's back with the company but she got fired at the time.

PlanetSmasher · Jul 8, 2018

Winterreise said:
The issue is that you're trying to make this out as if ArenaNet gave in to GG or the public backlash, when in reality they made it clear that these two employees were terminated for not upholding their standards for community engagement. The public has made this about GG or gender, not ArenaNet. They have to uphold their standards equally amongst all of their employees.

Stop trying to make this anything other than an employee not abiding by their employer's set expectations. They screwed up, and were (completely justifiably) let go. That's it.

And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

Falconbox · Jul 8, 2018

ParanoidRED said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMist...tent=player_twitch_logo&tt_medium=clips_embed

Day before he tweeted her lol

oh damn, that sucks. Seems like a genuinely good guy. I know his tweets expressed that he meant no disrespect, but he must have felt awful to be attacked by someone he was just praising.

Hadok · Jul 8, 2018

Jangowuzhere said:
That's a completely outdated way of thinking now.

People should be mindful of what they write on social media. That drum has been beaten for over a decade at this point, and it's not something that will ever go away.

This.

WillyTheBikeGuy · Jul 8, 2018

She was clearly toxic and paid the Price.

To me, though, the more egregious part of her tweets is saying they don't think there is a way to write compelling characters in mmorpgs and crpgs. Isn't that her job? The game will be better without her.

People were happy when the Subnautica guy got fired over toxic tweets, but for some reason don't apply the same standard in this instance.

Kokboi · Jul 8, 2018

Twitter is a dangerous place.

Twookie · Jul 8, 2018

As much as GG would want to take credit for this, Jessica dug the hole herself.

Calling a partnered content creator a "rando asshat" for trying to have a discussion with you is pretty bad. Deroir's comments were so unbelievably tame, he was very polite about it. All she had to do was either politely disagree or not respond at all.

Having a good relationship with your customers is probably more important for a studio that makes MMO's than other game companies, and if you have an employee work on content for people they openly seem to despise really makes you wonder if said individual is able to create value for those people.

ParanoidRED said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMist...tent=player_twitch_logo&tt_medium=clips_embed

Day before he tweeted her lol

yikes

1080peace · Jul 8, 2018

El Bombastico said:
Here's hoping she learns from this then...

Getting kicked to the curb by your employer over this doesn't really scream valuable life lesson to me.

MrConbon210 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
They weren't at work. They were at home on a national holiday. Professional workplace conduct applies in the workplace. Companies should not control every waking hour of their employees' lives. This firing sets an extremely dangerous precedent for the entire industry and EMBOLDENS these kind of harassment-to-firing campaigns to happen more in the future.

She had the option to make her Twitter private or simply not respond if she didn't want to engage with community while not at work.

Deleted member 31817 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
It's not a company twitter. It's their own Twitter account. It's not like the Guild Wars 2 twitter said this shit.

Folks, think about this for more than five fucking seconds. Now that this has happened, Reddit and Gamergate smell blood. They know all they have to do to get someone fired is annoy them enough that they lash out on Twitter. This is a big fucking deal and it sets an extremely bad precedent for the industry moving forward.

"Anyone can get fired now if they're rude and lash out at customerswhile representing the company"

This isn't a new precedent lol this has literally always been the case

Kudo · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
People should be free to say what they want on Twitter and not have it affect their employment as long as they aren't being racist, sexist or homophobic. You want to be a dickhead to a dev on Twitter, they should have the right to tell you you're being a dickhead and not fear for their jobs. The customer is not always right.

The customer might not always be right, but there's proverb that says "The customer is God" which I believe is true.
And welcome to 2000-century, you can be damn sure when you're looking for work first thing the employer does is Google your name.

daybreak · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

That would depend on the social media policy or customer-facing role policies that that company has put into place.

ArenaNet doesn't give a shit about what "precedent" this sets for the industry, they're interested in ensuring that their employees are professionals who abide by company regulations, just like any good company would be.

Again, the only precedent set here is "listen to the expectations set by your employer."

Heckler456 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
It's not a company twitter. It's their own Twitter account. It's not like the Guild Wars 2 twitter said this shit.

Folks, think about this for more than five fucking seconds. Now that this has happened, Reddit and Gamergate smell blood. They know all they have to do to get someone fired is annoy them enough that they lash out on Twitter. This is a big fucking deal and it sets an extremely bad precedent for the industry moving forward.

I guess women shouldn't be allowed to be fired anymore, because some minority among a minority might "take credit for it"? What you're saying here is textbook slippery slope. I'll concede my point if what you're suggesting here actually comes to pass, but I'm pretty confident it won't.

SundayAfternoon said:
I'll concede she was mildly rude to someone, but I get it. Polite mansplaining is still mansplaining no matter what veneer it comes in. Why is it that she somehow apparently has to be on all the time even in her own personal space? She didn't say anything racist or bigoted, heck the company even knew how outspoken she was and encouraged her. They knew what they were getting into.

To people echoing the excuse of "she should act professionally"
1. They knew how she was off the bat.
2. Are we really living in the world that employees must concede to customers all the time even in off hours? Is that how you guys really want it? This was a mild exchange that could've gone literally nowhere but snowballed.

How is an at best ignorant question immediately "mansplaining"? Look at the twitch clip. Does that sound like someone who looks down on Price? This is getting seriously ridiculous.

rras1994 · Jul 8, 2018

SundayAfternoon said:
I'll concede she was mildly rude to someone, but I get it. Polite mansplaining is still mansplaining no matter what veneer it comes in. Why is it that she somehow apparently has to be on all the time even in her own personal space? She didn't say anything racist or bigoted, heck the company even knew how outspoken she was and encouraged her. They knew what they were getting into.

To people echoing the excuse of "she should act professionally"
1. They knew how she was off the bat.
2. Are we really living in the world that employees must concede to customers all the time even in off hours? Is that how you guys really want it? This was a mild exchange that could've gone literally nowhere but snowballed.

Yeah, I think that's what people are missing here - the tone may be polite but the content of trying to explain how to do their own job? Not polite, whether you do it to a man or a woman. The Youtuber may be a generally polite young man, I don't think anybody here is calling him a monster, but it does suck to constantly have someone act like they know more about your job then you, and this happens to women alot. Could her response been better? Yes. It was a bit rude. But the most that should have happened was a warning, it's a mountain made out of a mole hill here.

Kos Luftar · Jul 8, 2018

Can anyone explain why every major news site is essentially taking JPs side and saying ANET made a mistake? Are they all just trying not to be seen to be "supporting GG/KIA"?

JP getting fired good riddance.
Peter, shouldn't not have been fired.

Nome · Jul 8, 2018

1080peace said:
Like you shouldn't play multiplayer games because apparently you're very toxic to other players? I find this gatekeeping of yours very strange. People can and should make mistakes and learn from those experiences.

I mute everyone on multiplayer games now, and use a different set of usernames. So yeah, lesson learned.

PlanetSmasher said:
It's not a company twitter. It's their own Twitter account. It's not like the Guild Wars 2 twitter said this shit.

Folks, think about this for more than five fucking seconds. Now that this has happened, Reddit and Gamergate smell blood. They know all they have to do to get someone fired is annoy them enough that they lash out on Twitter. This is a big fucking deal and it sets an extremely bad precedent for the industry moving forward.

This is why people with public-facing jobs maintain professional accounts separately from their private F&F accounts that they do stupid shit on.
Saying and doing stupid shit while still representing matters of the company (e.g. talking about your job) on your public account absolutely should result in consequences. Being off the clock doesn't absolve that.

These firings aren't some earth-shattering precedent in the industry. The industry has always been like this.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
They weren't at work. They were at home on a national holiday. Professional workplace conduct applies in the workplace. Companies should not control every waking hour of their employees' lives. This firing sets an extremely dangerous precedent for the entire industry and EMBOLDENS these kind of harassment-to-firing campaigns to happen more in the future.

This is definitely true, but clearly this standard has never been the case in America and I'm not sure how many people want it to actually the case.

As an example that is far, far, far more extreme than Price, someone could be perfectly fine during work hours and then after work post on Twitter "I think the Parkland shooting was faked along with Sandy Hook to try to take our guns" and I think most people would be very much in favor of firing him.

Cabbagehead · Jul 8, 2018

Jangowuzhere said:
That's a completely outdated way of thinking now.

People should be mindful of what they write on social media. That drum has been beaten for over a decade at this point, and it's not something that will ever go away.

Exactly talk about double standards. I've seen mutiple threads about people saying stupid shit on tweeter and getting fired or suspended.

Its still your words and it's your responsibility. Don't want to be held to them? don't use social media. The Era (no pun) of saying whatever you want is over, even more so if your apart of a larger public facing entity.

Falconbox · Jul 8, 2018

Maintenance said:
You mean like in the real world? If you embarass your company, anywhere, you're fucked. This is not new, by a long shot.

Yup, I've seen many co-workers get reprimanded for things they've posted on Facebook or Twitter that reflected poorly on our company.

Doesn't matter that it's their personal social media.

If you want your stuff private, then make your Twitter only visible to confirmed followers. Other than that, it's still your public persona.

MrConbon210 · Jul 8, 2018

1080peace said:
Getting kicked to the curb by your employer over this doesn't really scream valuable life lesson to me.

The studio had guidelines they told her to follow. She broke them. She got fired.

The same thing would happen in any job.

KLoWn · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

You do realize that this was completely her own fault and it had nothing to do with any "hate swarms", right?

You're getting mad over something that may not even happen.

PlanetSmasher · Jul 8, 2018

MrConbon210 said:
She had the option to make her Twitter private or simply not respond if she didn't want to engage with community while not at work.

So, in other words, game devs should just either A) have their Twitter accounts private, which in a lot of ways defeats the purpose of even having a Twitter at all, or B) ignore people even when they're abusive, overstep their boundaries, or argue with them in bad faith?

Psychoward said:
"Anyone can get fired now if they're rude and lash out at customerswhile representing the company"

This isn't a new precedent lol this has literally always been the case

Then we need to redefine what "representing a company" means. A writer is not a PR person. Their job is not to interact with fans. They should not be held to the same standards as a public-facing rep.

Apath · Jul 8, 2018

Antrax said:
Which was my first post.

Not gonna keep responding if people aren't reading.

Your post acts as if Jessica's response was in any way, shape, or form reasonable or called for. If the reason why developers don't interact with fans is because developers are incapable of acting professionally, then I will just say that I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

1080peace · Jul 8, 2018

Nome said:
I mute everyone on multiplayer games now. So yeah, lesson learned.

I give up smh

El Bombastico · Jul 8, 2018

1080peace said:
Getting kicked to the curb by your employer over this doesn't really scream valuable life lesson to me.

Sounds like a VERY valuable lesson go me.

Frostman · Jul 8, 2018

Pretty sure she did this too herself. She come off terribly, and got backlash for it. Seems straight forward to me.

Zohar127 · Jul 8, 2018

DR2K said:
She did nothing to warrant losing her job.

I don't want to insult or belittle but I'm genuinely curious. There are a lot of people from all ages and walks of life on this website and sometimes I read things and I can't help but wonder who the person I'm reading is.

My question is, are you of post-college age and working, and are you working in a professional environment?

For me, I work at an engineering consultancy firm in a design role, and if I got on Twitter and found people talking about the jobs were are working on and started calling people names and acting like an asshole I would be fired - instantly-.

When you say she did nothing to warrant losing her job, I just gotta wonder what your position is to think that.

ParanoidRED · Jul 8, 2018

SundayAfternoon said:
I'll concede she was mildly rude to someone, but I get it. Polite mansplaining is still mansplaining no matter what veneer it comes in.

Can you rephrase what Deroir said without the mansplaining? A way to get his point across that could've suited the situation better? I'm intrigued

Niceguydan8 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

Then it will come down to the context of the firing (what happened, what were the rules of the company, were there any past issues, etc.) just like literally every other time this happens in every industry.

I am 100% sure that I would see some serious consequences if a customer that my company served tweeted me in a polite manner and I came back with some bullshit like Price's response that caught some traction. I don't even have a customer-facing position, but having a toxic attitude towards a customer on social media would be in really bad taste and it's really obvious as to why I probably shouldn't do that.

Big_Erk · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

The thing is, just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean you have to respond. You can ignore or block them. Sometimes taking the high road is the best and if you work for a company that has set guidelines for these interactions, even moreso.

sibarraz · Jul 8, 2018

The last time we have seen lots of shitty people being fired for doing stupid shit outside their workplace. In this era this can't be used as an argument to not fire someone, specially since the incident was related to her work

daybreak · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
Then we need to redefine what "representing a company" means. A writer is not a PR person. Their job is not to interact with fans. They should not be held to the same standards as a public-facing rep.

Are you seriously not reading what you're writing? If their job isn't to interact with fans, then why the hell was she interacting with fans on a public social media page!?

She put herself in this position.

freakybj · Jul 8, 2018

Jangowuzhere said:
That's a completely outdated way of thinking now.

People should be mindful of what they write on social media. That drum has been beaten for over a decade at this point, and it's not something that will ever go away.

Yeah, people get fired from jobs all the time from what they write on social media. I think Price was in the wrong with how she responded to someone offering feedback, but I don't think this one error deserved a punishment as severe as being fired. I think she could've been counseled and then asked to post an apology. Part of me suspects that there probably were other issues going on and this could've been the last straw.

Fingerthing · Jul 8, 2018

legacyzero said:
You just basically said that her choice in the matter was binary. And it's not. I know plenty of developers, even minorities, that exist on Twitter, that do not engage in regards to their brand. If you put your takes on a public space like Twitter, focusing on your product, consumers of your product will engage. End of story.

A 3rd choice is- don't engage.

Isn't not engaging the same as silence though? I can get that a lot of people, especially minorities, like to stay out of the way of public scrutiny exactly because of events like this. Not engaging means not getting massmobbed as soon as you speak slightly out of tune.

Kinsei · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
And what happens the next time a game dev fires an employee for getting upset on Twitter because some dumbass fan (or reddit/GG hate swarm) doesn't understand boundaries and starts shit? Are we going to take that as an isolated incident too?

We have to hope that companies will understand context. If someone is clearly be targeted by people fishing for a reaction then hopefully companies will stand by their employees. This isn't what happened here though. At the end of the day she responded to polite criticism from someone who bore her no ill will.

Deleted member 16657 · Jul 8, 2018

rras1994 said:
It's rude to say "well, I would use "basic dev knowledge" as a solution, as I think it would work better, I, who is not a game dev and doesn't have any experience in this area, feel this would work better and think you , who is actually a game dev, haven't considered it yet. ". There's no questions in that, it's patronising, and it acts like they have as much knowledge as the game dev. It's rude if you are doing it to a woman or a man, but let's not pretend that women don't get explained basic things about their job then men do.

I understand your perspective now, so thank you for explaining it. That said, the amount of "rudeness" that it is to suggest something obvious vs calling someone an asshat and accusing them of mansplaining seems wildly disproportionate to me.

Nome · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
So, in other words, game devs should just either A) have their Twitter accounts private, which in a lot of ways defeats the purpose of even having a Twitter at all, or B) ignore people even when they're abusive, overstep their boundaries, or argue with them in bad faith?

Yes. This is exactly what social media training tells you to do.
When a fan engages me in good faith, I respond.
When they don't, I ignore. Move onto the next one.
Simple as that.

Indy in the Fridge · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
They weren't at work. They were at home on a national holiday. Professional workplace conduct applies in the workplace. Companies should not control every waking hour of their employees' lives. This firing sets an extremely dangerous precedent for the entire industry and EMBOLDENS these kind of harassment-to-firing campaigns to happen more in the future.

Lol, my wife can't post a picture of herself with a wine glass without facing discipline from the school board. Social media behavior is not exempt from company conduct these days. I mean, companies will comb through social media profiles as part of a hiring process. You have no say what a company considers an offense or not. Being incredibly rude to a customer on social media is not a protected class.

Kyougar · Jul 8, 2018

ParanoidRED said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMist...tent=player_twitch_logo&tt_medium=clips_embed

Day before he tweeted her lol

I thought this was some kind of sudden twist where he is an asshole or sexist or such things, but NOPE.
He really liked her narrative direction and just wanted to engage.

El Bombastico · Jul 8, 2018

It's amazing how quickly in this thread you can tell between people who have worked retail/customer service before and those who haven't.

daybreak · Jul 8, 2018

Nome said:
Yes. This is exactly what social media training tells you to do.

Not only social media training, this is what every third grader learns in elementary school.

1080peace · Jul 8, 2018

El Bombastico said:
Sounds like a VERY valuable lesson go me.

The lesson learned here is that ArenaNet doesn't give a fuck about its employees. Not really the lesson that could've been learned if Price and Fries weren't fired but reprimanded/given the chance to make amends.

El Bombastico said:
It's amazing how quickly in this thread you can tell between people who have worked retail/customer service before and those who haven't.

That this situation isn't uncommon in your work field that doesn't automatically make it right.

Deleted member 31817 · Jul 8, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
So, in other words, game devs should just either A) have their Twitter accounts private, which in a lot of ways defeats the purpose of even having a Twitter at all, or B) ignore people even when they're abusive, overstep their boundaries, or argue with them in bad faith?

Then we need to redefine what "representing a company" means. A writer is not a PR person. Their job is not to interact with fans. They should not be held to the same standards as a public-facing rep.

Its a public account that says they work for arenanet. That is a public facing stance.

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