the people that seem to be deliberately misunderstanding points don't appear to be the ones you're labeling as GamerGaters
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Kotaku: GW2 writers fired after Twitter argument. GG pressured firing.
- Thread starter Don Fluffles
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the people that seem to be deliberately misunderstanding points don't appear to be the ones you're labeling as GamerGaters
I'm really conflicted on this.
I don't think she deserved to be fired. One of the most unfortunate things about modern society is how we're always on the clock. One mistake, at work or not can cost your career.
At the same time, I'd be lying if I said I felt particularly sorry for her. Twitter doesn't give you a full view of a person, but she should know not to call a freaking customer an asshat. That guy wasn't being rude or condescending.
Fuck gamergate.
I don't think she deserved to be fired. One of the most unfortunate things about modern society is how we're always on the clock. One mistake, at work or not can cost your career.
At the same time, I'd be lying if I said I felt particularly sorry for her. Twitter doesn't give you a full view of a person, but she should know not to call a freaking customer an asshat. That guy wasn't being rude or condescending.
Fuck gamergate.
Yeah and she also has the right to tell him off pretty rudely and anet has the right to fire her for being unnecessarily rude to consumers.
The end
He doesn't actually have a foot to stand on, so he has to resort to dramatizing everything.
The tweet also just doesn't read like it's speaking *over* Price to me at all. Like, all I see is a disagreement and not a discrediting of Price's professionalism. If I disagree with a professional does that inherently mean I think myself to be more professional than them, especially in an artistic field?
Same, I just whatever at this point, through it is quite something seeing a big GW2 thread in this forum heh.
Some of you guys have seriously become stereotypical parodies of how the majority of people outside this forum view it to be.
Ridiculous.
Our whole liberal democracy is based on the right and ability to question those with presumed authority.
If a female nurse asks a male doctor something that questions his authority is she womansplaining?
If a male nurse asks a female doctor something that questions her authority is he mansplaining?
Jesus Christ, we really are through the looking glass with this dangerous mentality of obedience to supposed authority.
Why are you so needlessly antagonistic? You comment at a guy regarding the guys rights and how they didn't mention the womens rights, then someone says 2hey, she has all the same rights too you know, because it's how Twitter works" and then you're all "oh thank you big dick MAN for tell the wimmen folk what rights they have!". Like, you are asking for things getting the responses you say you want only to then turn on them.
It's not a side effect, it's the root cause. This entirely blew up in in the first place and became an issue because GG proceeded to use it as hammer to beat anet into submission. There was little response or problem until people entirely unrelated to the conversation decided to jump in and MAKE it their problem.
And anet's gonna pay the price. People will resign over this and people will stop working there. Because no one wants to work in an environment where the GG crowd can get you fired.
I doubt that, unless someone's planning a harassment campaign against Deroir.
That's not to say that people here aren't getting a little out there.
Hello I wish to not continue talking about this and am going to distance myself.
User Banned (3 Days) - Hostility towards other users
I'm sorry, I forget how delicate internet gamer bros can be sometimes.
Also, all of the people in this thread being cute with their mansplaining jokes: your slip is showing.
I wonder why that stereotype exists in the first place :thinking:
That's not what happened, though. They buckled to GG, and I feel like this is being misrepresented as some sort of customer service thing.
Kamiya is an asshole. Plenty of people think he's ridiculous, and plenty of people just think that he is so absurd that it's charicature at this point. And I would agree. Also, this is Kamiya. It is his company. Not random employee. And on Kamiya, he literally gives a laundry list of things not to talk to him about it he will block.
If she did not want to discuss with someone, she again could have not responded or not posted the video or said she didn't want to when she posted the video.
Ideally, she shouldn't have been fired, yeah. Probably wouldn't have if she worked in Europe. But she was definitely at fault in this conversation, and frankly, who knows how she behaves herself at the office. We don't know of course, but still, worth taking into account too.
It does seem like the mods are either sleeping or not able to keep up with the thread.
OT; I feel a bit mixed regarding their firing personally (from what I've read that's public, despite her continual shitty behaviour) and especially the predictable knock on effect, but there're some really base reactions here.
So is it possible for a man to be merely condescending to a woman and not be mansplaining? (Because to me the term sounds like it implies the condescension comes from sexism on the man's part.)
So she has to ignore constantly that shit or she has to act nice to people explaining how to do her job or she should be fired? I don't think people gets a plus for that, because it should be.
We fight vehemently about consumer rights but very little about working rights.
Were you ever going to get back to me with how Deroir was "whipping up" the harassment or was that just another steaming turd you wanted to drop in the thread and forget about?
Article gives way too much credibility to a GW2 subreddit. They shouldn't have been fired but Reddit drama isn't representative of the issue here.
Isn't there a difference between "telling a woman how to do their job" and "disagreeing with a female game developer"?
Sure, is fucking wrong that someone is out of his live hood because consumer taking rights from there shouldn't be.
This would be more effective if you weren't just coming at people and ignoring when your terrible arguments get shot full of holes.
Again, I'm talking about the reaction on his comments. I'm not comparing the how's and why's. Let's put this subject to rest shall we?
Better yet, see this post:
It sucks but that's how Twitter is. There's a reason a lot of game devs don't use it. Look at Rian Johnson's Twitter. He gets constant hate and threats from people who thinks he ruined Star Wars forever yet he still manages to keep it cool and not dive into arguments where he calls the fans Asshats.
In an internet public space, which twitter is, anyone has the right to reply. The other side has the right to reply back, block, or not reply. In this instance JP replied back in a totally unprofessional way while broadcasting on her public profile the company she works for.
I do not know what you do for a living, but most companies do not like negativity associated with their brand and disciplinary action is usually taken.
Yes.
Alternatively, don't explicitly call them mansplaining asshats, especially if they're connected to your company and didn't do anything offense, except I guess disagree with you.
Do you not actually have a job.
Mostly because consumers pay the workers, but also because the employers also pay the workers.
She made a twitter thread, he responded. The genders here do not matter at all. She continued a point she made in an AMA previously for people to see, she re-opened the AMA discussion herself.
Been a long time. To bad it's not about something postive.
She was out of line and unprofessional to a customer with similar history in the past. That GG jumped in on this after the fact, doesn't absolve this.
Acting nice to people who act nice towards you usually isn't a hard requirement.
I'm convinced you haven't actually read the Twitter thread, because in no way was the individual telling her how to do her job. It was a discussion on whether it's possible to make an MMORPG character a compelling character.
I don't think it's ridiculous because we have to look at this in the context of the history of how patriarchal our society has been and the mistreatment towards women not just in the past but even today.
If a male nurse asks a female doctor something that questions her authority that doesn't necessarily mean he is mansplaining as it is both of their jobs to make sure the patient gets the best treatment possible. In addition, nurses more often than not catch things that physicians do not just because they have a more close eye on singular patients whereas physicians look at the bigger picture.
It is in situations where the man's opinion is not asked for and not necessary and most of all uninformed when compared to the woman that it is called mansplaining (whether the man feels it is benign or not). Why is that so difficult to understand?
Agreed with all of this. Firing definitely seems disproportionate to what seems to have happened here. This whole situation could have been easily resolved without that. There was no need to jump to that, with no opportunity to make mends or even apologize or get rid of the Twitter account or anything. There were a billion different other ways this could have been handled. Firing them of all things just seems a bit much for what appears to have happened here.
Also, speaking of Fries, it's very interesting that almost nobody seems to be talking about that and all and instead focusing on Price. Even if one wants to make an argument that firing Price was justified, why fire Fries as well? That seems even more disproportionate. That that's getting pretty much completely ignored and that most people seem to be acting like/are only aware of one developer being fired in relation to this and that all the attention is getting focused there to the point that there's extremely limited discussion of Fries being limited in comparison is itself troubling to me. Because of course I that Price's comment is what naturally came first and all that and so that will naturally be where most people's attention goes, but still, the way it's getting lost in all this when that itself is certainly also worthy of discussion regardless of what one thins of anything else is really bothering me.
Without going into whether or not I think Deroir was mansplaining (I don't have a strong opinion either way, probably not), this is a poor understanding of the word. No one who actually mansplains goes about it as obviously as "As a man, let me tell you, woman, how to do your job". It doesn't work like that. Most of the time it's subtle and indirect, but it's still a pattern that women notice and it can be grating. See below:
Yep, pretty much where I stand.
I don't think it's a disingenuous comparison. A lead designer is even more of a public-facing figure to their respective company than a random dev is, and Kamiya's not only a much bigger asshole on Twitter than this woman was, a lot of people actually love that about him and cheer him on. It's not even about what the companies choose to do or not to do, in this case, but rather, the reactions of the public. Do you think a female dev mouthing off on Twitter the way Kamiya does would get the "lol oh Kamiya you absolute madman <3" type of reactions he often does? Do you think a female Kamiya would get away with his attitude? I sure don't.
I'll defend her right now. She got annoyed with someone, ANet were cowards.
Ignore him at this point. From his posts on this thread he has no intention of actually having civil discourse.
Sorry bout that, literally impossible to reply to every angry gamer bro on the internet.
Mostly this tweet was...not helpful: https://twitter.com/DeroirGaming/status/1014563099469377546.
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