That's absolutely not what was described, but I do understand that it's GamerGater 101 to deliberately misunderstand points.
the people that seem to be deliberately misunderstanding points don't appear to be the ones you're labeling as GamerGaters
That's absolutely not what was described, but I do understand that it's GamerGater 101 to deliberately misunderstand points.
Jesus christ, Breezy, be careful with the mansplaining.Hello I slightly disagree with you. Resetera is a public forum for discourse and we should be able to engage. Thank you for the post, and I hope to hear your thoughts!
Yeah and she also has the right to tell him off pretty rudely and anet has the right to fire her for being unnecessarily rude to consumers.He has the right to comment and she has the right to refuse commenting and not wanting to have another person with those comments,specially someone telling you you are not good enough at your work.
He doesn't actually have a foot to stand on, so he has to resort to dramatizing everything.
Ridiculous.Lol what?
Mansplaining is whenever a man explains to a woman something that incorrectly assumes he knows better than that woman.
In this case, talking to a female game developer how to develop a game when he has laughably less experience than her. I haven't looked into this specific situation yet, but that's the gist of what mansplaining is in general.
Why are you so needlessly antagonistic? You comment at a guy regarding the guys rights and how they didn't mention the womens rights, then someone says 2hey, she has all the same rights too you know, because it's how Twitter works" and then you're all "oh thank you big dick MAN for tell the wimmen folk what rights they have!". Like, you are asking for things getting the responses you say you want only to then turn on them.Well, it's good that we have hero men like you that can define what boundaries women have.
It's not a side effect, it's the root cause. This entirely blew up in in the first place and became an issue because GG proceeded to use it as hammer to beat anet into submission. There was little response or problem until people entirely unrelated to the conversation decided to jump in and MAKE it their problem.Read her responses. She deserved the firing because she was unprofessional and exceptionally rude. Any company who depends on their image and playerbase perception can not tolerate this kind of lashing out. Making everyhing "men vs women" when there was 0 indication of gender bias. Shes on a crusade and paid the price. Everything else like GG and the absolutely nasty abuse she is getting is a side effect and undeserved.
Holy shit. I can't.
You know, being 'extreme' is bad, no matter what 'side' you are on. Some of you are acting just as toxic as GG'ers.
This is the real scary part about all this. It's vindicating A LOT of shitty people in their distrust of gaming media, and that's far more dangerous than the precedent set by firing a toxic person because it will push people to that side. This seriously could be a GG 2.0 brewing and that would be abysmal.
Some of you guys have seriously become stereotypical parodies of how the majority of people outside this forum view it to be.
I doubt that, unless someone's planning a harassment campaign against Deroir.
That's not to say that people here aren't getting a little out there.
Yeah and she also has the right to tell him off pretty rudely and anet has the right to fire her for being unnecessarily rude to consumers.
The end
Again, I'm not talking about the reaction of the company, I'm talking about the reaction of those Reddit cesspools. Kamiya is lauded for being a complete asshole online, but a woman can't be a little snippy on social media.
No one is making him out to be an asshole. Just giving context why Price acted the way she did. Case in point:
Ideally, she shouldn't have been fired, yeah. Probably wouldn't have if she worked in Europe. But she was definitely at fault in this conversation, and frankly, who knows how she behaves herself at the office. We don't know of course, but still, worth taking into account too.I'm really conflicted on this.
I don't think she deserved to be fired. One of the most unfortunate things about modern society is how we're always on the clock. One mistake, at work or not can cost your career.
At the same time, I'd be lying if I said I felt particularly sorry for her. Twitter doesn't give you a full view of a person, but she should know not to call a freaking customer an asshat. That guy wasn't being rude or condescending.
Fuck gamergate.
It does seem like the mods are either sleeping or not able to keep up with the thread.Yeah I'm starting to report posts that are relying on calling people a Gator
So is it possible for a man to be merely condescending to a woman and not be mansplaining? (Because to me the term sounds like it implies the condescension comes from sexism on the man's part.)Lol what?
Mansplaining is whenever a man explains to a woman something that incorrectly assumes he knows better than that woman.
But she didn't because her account is not private. Nobody would be mad at her if she didn't respond or responded in a nicer way.
I'm sorry, I forget how delicate internet gamer bros can be sometimes.
You are trying so hardI'm sorry, I forget how delicate internet gamer bros can be sometimes.
Yeah and she also has the right to tell him off pretty rudely and anet has the right to fire her for being unnecessarily rude to consumers.
The end
I'm sorry, I forget how delicate internet gamer bros can be sometimes.
Again, I'm talking about the reaction on his comments. I'm not comparing the how's and why's. Let's put this subject to rest shall we?Kamiya is an asshole. Plenty of people think he's ridiculous, and plenty of people just think that he is so absurd that it's charicature at this point. And I would agree. Also, this is Kamiya. It is his company. Not random employee. And on Kamiya, he literally gives a laundry list of things not to talk to him about it he will block.
If she did not want to discuss with someone, she again could have not responded or not posted the video or said she didn't want to when she posted the video.
I don't think it's a disingenuous comparison. A lead designer is even more of a public-facing figure to their respective company than a random dev is, and Kamiya's not only a much bigger asshole on Twitter than this woman was, a lot of people actually love that about him and cheer him on. It's not even about what the companies choose to do or not to do, in this case, but rather, the reactions of the public. Do you think a female dev mouthing off on Twitter the way Kamiya does would get the "lol oh Kamiya you absolute madman <3" type of reactions he often does? Do you think a female Kamiya would get away with this attitude? I sure don't.
So she has to ignore constantly that shit or she has to act nice to people explaining how to do her job or she should be fired? I don't think people gets a plus for that, because it should be.
We fight vehemently about consumer rights but very little about working rights.
Isn't there a difference between "telling a woman how to do their job" and "disagreeing with a female game developer"?
In an internet public space, which twitter is, anyone has the right to reply. The other side has the right to reply back, block, or not reply. In this instance JP replied back in a totally unprofessional way while broadcasting on her public profile the company she works for.Interesting how the man has a right in this situation, but there's no mentions of the rights of the woman.
or she has to act nice to people explaining how to do her job or she should be fired?
We fight vehemently about consumer rights but very little about working rights.
She made a twitter thread, he responded. The genders here do not matter at all. She continued a point she made in an AMA previously for people to see, she re-opened the AMA discussion herself.Interesting how the man has a right in this situation, but there's no mentions of the rights of the woman.
Been a long time. To bad it's not about something postive.Same, I just whatever at this point, through it is quite something seeing a big GW2 thread in this forum heh.
Acting nice to people who act nice towards you usually isn't a hard requirement.So she has to ignore constantly that shit or she has to act nice to people explaining how to do her job or she should be fired? I don't think people gets a plus for that, because it should be.
We fight vehemently about consumer rights but very little about working rights.
I'm convinced you haven't actually read the Twitter thread, because in no way was the individual telling her how to do her job. It was a discussion on whether it's possible to make an MMORPG character a compelling character.
Ridiculous.
Our whole liberal democracy is based on the right and ability to question those with presumed authority.
If a female nurse asks a male doctor something that questions his authority is she womansplaining?
If a male nurse asks a female doctor something that questions her authority is he mansplaining?
Jesus Christ, we really are through the looking glass with this dangerous mentality of obedience to supposed authority.
This was posted yesterday by the writer of Dishonored: Death of the Outsider.
I'm inclined to agree with PlanetSmasher: Arenanet's actions will have consequences for all gaming communities and devs alike. I've no doubt that in the past disgruntled players have pulled this kind of "i will no longer be your customer" stint before, but Arenanet's firing of Jessica Price and Peter Fries has told them that it is a tactic that can work. They have been emboldened by success, and it worries me.
Agreed with all of this. Firing definitely seems disproportionate to what seems to have happened here. This whole situation could have been easily resolved without that. There was no need to jump to that, with no opportunity to make mends or even apologize or get rid of the Twitter account or anything. There were a billion different other ways this could have been handled. Firing them of all things just seems a bit much for what appears to have happened here.Firing was an extreme escalation, but why fire Fries? That makes no sense to me, all he did was stick up for a coworker which people do ALL THE TIME. Take him aside at the office maybe and give him a warning. Firing him is ridiculous.
Companies never have the backs of their workers. Someone brought up Allison Rapp, before people dug up her moonlighting, she had already been harassed by GG for a full year, and Nintendo never had her back. Under a company with an actual spine, they would have disciplined Price by locking her social media account for a specified time (ESPN does this with their employees that act out of line). There was no need for a firing. An apology, revoke her social media privileges for a month, and this doesn't blow up.
Without going into whether or not I think Deroir was mansplaining (I don't have a strong opinion either way, probably not), this is a poor understanding of the word. No one who actually mansplains goes about it as obviously as "As a man, let me tell you, woman, how to do your job". It doesn't work like that. Most of the time it's subtle and indirect, but it's still a pattern that women notice and it can be grating. See below:If literally every time a man says something to a woman is mansplaning to you, then how the fuck do you survive in a day?
Mansplaning is about explaining something to someone, by assuming that because of their gender you know better.
Where, in any of the interactions with the dev, did the guy imply his opinion was superior or based on the fact that he was a man? He offered criticism the same way any other person would, and she went off on him. And you're refusing to see that.
Yep, pretty much where I stand.Mansplaining doesn't have to be malicious or intentional, it can in fact be benign as fuck. That's why I'm not criticizing Deroir at all. But I totally get Price's position as well.
I don't think it's a disingenuous comparison. A lead designer is even more of a public-facing figure to their respective company than a random dev is, and Kamiya's not only a much bigger asshole on Twitter than this woman was, a lot of people actually love that about him and cheer him on. It's not even about what the companies choose to do or not to do, in this case, but rather, the reactions of the public. Do you think a female dev mouthing off on Twitter the way Kamiya does would get the "lol oh Kamiya you absolute madman <3" type of reactions he often does? Do you think a female Kamiya would get away with his attitude? I sure don't.Also, people like Kamiya who are lead designers have more leverage against their employers than someone much further down the food chain, and that should be obvious to the point where it seems disingenuous to even make that comparison.
I'll defend her right now. She got annoyed with someone, ANet were cowards.I think you'd be hard pressed to defend her over this, her reaction was completely uncalled for. Gaming media continues to be a joke and vindicating those who don't really deserve it.
What is wrong with you?I'm sorry, I forget how delicate internet gamer bros can be sometimes.
In an internet public space, which twitter is, anyone has the right to reply. The other side has the right to reply back, block, or not reply. In this instance JP replied back in a totally unprofessional way while broadcasting on her public profile the company she works for.
I do not know what you do for a living, but most companies do not like negativity associated with their brand and disciplinary action is usually taken.
Were you ever going to get back to me with how Deroir was "whipping up" the harassment or was that just another steaming turd you wanted to drop in the thread and forget about?