Is it really hard to ask to have actually told him off (for what seem to be perceived slights, mind) instead of being a prick?So she has to ignore constantly that shit or she has to act nice to people explaining how to do her job or she should be fired? I don't think people gets a plus for that, because it should be.
We fight vehemently about consumer rights but very little about working rights.
This is the real scary part about all this. It's vindicating A LOT of shitty people in their distrust of gaming media, and that's far more dangerous than the precedent set by firing a toxic person because it will push people to that side. This seriously could be a GG 2.0 brewing and that would be abysmal.
Agreed with all of this. Firing definitely seems disproportionate to what seems to have happened here. This whole situation could have been easily resolved without that. There was no need to jump to that, with no opportunity to make mends or even apologize or get rid of the Twitter account or anything. There were a billion different other ways this could have been handled. Firing them of all things just seems a bit much for what appears to have happened here.
Ah, this polite monster strike again.Sorry bout that, literally impossible to reply to every angry gamer bro on the internet.
Mostly this tweet was...not helpful: https://twitter.com/DeroirGaming/status/1014563099469377546.
Pretty sure he's just shit stirring. He's said this in the GW2 OT:Were you ever going to get back to me with how Deroir was "whipping up" the harassment or was that just another steaming turd you wanted to drop in the thread and forget about?
I'm not saying Epic Youtuber Gamer Lad XD meant anything ill by it. I'm sure he genuinely thought he was helping, but ultimately he was introducing very basic, entry-level information to an experienced educated writer.
Obviously it was a bad decision for her to clap back over social media, because Ultimate Epic Youtuber Gamer Lad XD is just another nobody screaming into the void whose opinion ultimately is useless and means nothing. This is why most of us just have anonymous accounts to vent on.
I don't really know or care about the topic of TB enough to comment on it or research it. And I'm not trying to defend anyone; in fact above I said that her getting into this was a bad idea. Believe it or not, everything isn't always my side vs your side.
So is it possible for a man to be merely condescending to a woman and not be mansplaining? (Because to me the term sounds like it implies the condescension comes from sexism on the man's part.)
I got more than one out of this thread. At least this shows me how people really are and who to cut.Just ignore ApexPoogie guys, he's either trolling or arguing in such bad faith its not worth the keystrokes.
Also, all of the people in this thread being cute with their mansplaining jokes: your slip is showing.
Your not arguing anything, your being dismissive and antagonistic. While discussing with little to no good faith and simply labeling others that you don't agree with.Well, from most of your perspectives, I'm arguing with you, which is a shameful offense.
You are not arguing in good faith and you are belittling other users imho.Well, from most of your perspectives, I'm arguing with you, which is a shameful offense.
His argument and line of reasoning is dogshit, so he has to resort to acting like a parody of what the right thinks a progressive is.Why are you so needlessly antagonistic? You comment at a guy regarding the guys rights and how they didn't mention the womens rights, then someone says 2hey, she has all the same rights too you know, because it's how Twitter works" and then you're all "oh thank you big dick MAN for tell the wimmen folk what rights they have!". Like, you are asking for things getting the responses you say you want only to then turn on them.
Honest question; do we know for sure they "jumped to" firing? How do we know if they didn't approach her and try to resolve this separately? Do we know if she's had other similar issues?
His argument and line of reasoning is dogshit, so he has to resort to acting like a parody of what the right thinks a progressive is.
This is definitely an important point. Generally, with stuff like this in my experience, it gets brought up with HR, and there's a big meeting, and they figure out where to go from there. There could've easily been extra belligerence behind it or some other inter-office drama, which would explain the reaction a little better.
So your being a troll?Interesting, because I've never actually stated my opinion on the topic at large at all.
Now you can easily consider this but you think anyone claiming that she was an ass, was unprofessional, and doesn't know what "mansplaining" means are GamerGators?
I can see that, but does that mean if you happen to be condescending to a woman (as a man) that makes you sexist?The whole point of mansplaining as I understand it is the condescension. So no.
The sexism is most of the times implicit, something we don't notice because it is so prevalent and we've grown up with it being the norm.
Interesting, because I've never actually stated my opinion on the topic at large at all.
Would you like to tell me what my stance is?
this thread has over 2x tthe post count of the gw2 ot here already...
Your stance is that Deroir is a nobody GamerGate white boi who also somehow has enough clout to whip other GamerGators into obviously getting this woman fired, who may or may not have also probably did other bad shit that also contributed to her release.
Your stance is to troll other people for daring to have a different opinion to you. And you don't need to state your opinion in flashing green letters, your attitude towards other users who believe the writer was in the wrong says more than enough.Interesting, because I've never actually stated my opinion on the topic at large at all.
Would you like to tell me what my stance is?
Again, I'm talking about the reaction on his comments. I'm not comparing the how's and why's. Let's put this subject to rest shall we?
Better yet, see this post:
It's a combination of factors. First, "I believe the issue lies in the contraints of the Living Story's narrative design" is essentially saying "you chose the wrong writing design path" and AGAIN I have to point out that I am not gonna shit on this guy because most people who do this don't mean harm and are trying to be nice. Then he says "When you want the outcome to be the same across the board for all players' experiences, then yes, by design you are extremely limited in how you can contruct the personality of the PC." which is basically repeating the sentiment that Price already expressed back to her. She already said that as much herself in her tweets, and some person is trying to repeat that back to her as if she didn't come to that conclusion.How could it not have been mansplaining?
I'm serious, he's just saying "I think branching dialogue could solve this issue" (albeit explaining what branching dialogue is, though perhaps to the people who might read it instead).
What's the mansplaining aspect here?
That he explained what branching dialogue is?
That he disagreed with a developer and proposed his own solution?
That he replied to a Tweet by an outspoken female developer?
That he "took up someone's personal hours" while they were talking about their work on an account where they feature their work affiliation?
That he dared to reply to a Tweet by a developer who was not certainly looking for a discussion?
And what makes it mansplaining and not just condescending? Is all condescension a man might accidentally show a woman mansplaining? If a man ever says something that's condescending to a woman, does that inherently have a gendered connotation?
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMist...tent=player_twitch_logo&tt_medium=clips_embed
Day before he tweeted her lol
Your stance is to troll other people for daring to have a different opinion to you. And you don't need to state your opinion in flashing green letters, your attitude towards other users who believe the writer was in the wrong says more than enough.
Stop making stuff up, confirmation bias makes a fool out of people.Dudes cannot handle a woman with an outspoken opinion and they fall over each other to justify any form of silencing and punishment of said woman. Hence the large amount of posts trying to jump through all sorts of hoops to justify why women deserve to be silenced and punished.
I see it a bit differently. I must admit the whole GG topic is something that doesnt really interest me so I am definately not an expert on the matter. Based only on her communication I, as a mid lev white collar manager, would fire her. It is quite simple really - if you want to blow off steam, then you do not associate your public profile with your employees. As a matter a fact I encourage people to not have a public profile at all (but thats my thing). Calling your customer asshat and then going on a made up gender equality crusade is WAY over the line. Once again, you may vent and send people packing from your PRIVATE-NON EMPLOYEE associated social media account and even then it would look bad, but not contract termination type bad. And I am sure that Anet will not pay anything here. Everyone with a brain and experience with white collars knows whats going on. Mental lunatics on the internet threatening to boycott are irrelevant. They just cant accept that. They are also such a minority that on the scale of "not important - major problem" they are below statistical error. See boycotting Call of Duty for reference.It's not a side effect, it's the root cause. This entirely blew up in in the first place and became an issue because GG proceeded to use it as hammer to beat anet into submission. There was little response or problem until people entirely unrelated to the conversation decided to jump in and MAKE it their problem.
And anet's gonna pay the price. People will resign over this and people will stop working there. Because no one wants to work in an environment where the GG crowd can get you fired.
probably why this thread was left up by the mods and the others were closed down so shortly and why they don't clamp down on obvious disingenuous posting going and trollingIt is sad to me that so many people are taking the Kotaku article and other sites as the full story.
Bullshit, don't try and handwave Kamiya out of this discussion. He's not the owner of the company.Kamiya has no place in this discussion. Firstly, he's his own boss and gets to run his company and project its image however he likes. Secondly, Kaniya can be a twat, but he's also quite funny a lot of the time. There's nothing about this situation that makes him a sensible comparison.
So you don't care enough to actually have a discussion about it. Alright my guy.
Would you kindly quote where I said that Deroir is a Gamergater?
Whipping up a giant right-wing hate mob on the internet generally knocks you down a few points on my respect scale.
I can see that, but does that mean if you happen to be condescending to a woman (as a man) that makes you sexist?
I mean, say someone who's condescending to everyone is condescending to a woman. Does that make him sexist now? Is a man being condescending to a woman inherently connected to some sexism?
This is definitely an important point. Generally, with stuff like this in my experience, it gets brought up with HR, and there's a big meeting, and they figure out where to go from there. There could've easily been extra belligerence behind it or some other inter-office drama, which would explain the reaction a little better.
I think I'm pretty much done with the thread but I'll just leave saying this was a good post and that Arena really should've just handled all this a lot better.It's a combination of factors. First, "I believe the issue lies in the contraints of the Living Story's narrative design" is essentially saying "you chose the wrong writing design path" and AGAIN I have to point out that I am not gonna shit on this guy because most people who do this don't mean harm and are trying to be nice. Then he says "When you want the outcome to be the same across the board for all players' experiences, then yes, by design you are extremely limited in how you can contruct the personality of the PC." which is basically repeating the sentiment that Price already expressed back to her. She already said that as much herself in her tweets, and some person is trying to repeat that back to her as if she didn't come to that conclusion.
He also says "If instead players were given the option to meaningfully express *their* character through branching dialogue options (which also aren't just on the checklist for an achievement that forces you through all dialogue options)". I want to dive into this a little more. First, I would hope that Deroir wasn't specifically referring to GW2 necessarily, but if he was, that's basically the epitome of "why don't you just do it THIS way", ignoring that said "way" would require a complete ground-up restructuring of the writing and game design. You see this in ResetEra threads all the time when people talk about "lazy devs" and why they don't do features that would involve a huge amount of work. If I work for GW2, and this GW2 prominent player says these things, I would assume's talking about the game I work on.
So let's bring these together... When you get this sort of thing every day, and now someone prominent in the community is saying these things to you, no matter how nice the words are and how cordial he's being, when you actually look at the context, it's pretty insulting. THAT STILL DOESN'T WARRANT being rude to him, BUT IT ALSO doesn't warrant being fired, because as I've said before, the easiest way to make this situation cool over would have been a temporary suspension and revoking of social media. And certainly not firing the co-worker who stood up for Price. That's literally throwing to the wolves.
Another reason I don't criticize Deroir as a person is because he very clearly in the twitter thread does not come across as being THAT upset about Price's remarks. Disappointed maybe, but he wasn't calling for her to be fired. There are people who don't want to see Deroir blamed, and he shouldn't be. But part of this is because of ANet's overreaction. If they had a better disciplinary protocol, it wouldn't have reached this point. So as a result he ends up being the victim of a lot of bullshit too. If ANet handled this correctly, Price would be slapped on the wrist, Fries would still have a job, Deroir would not now have to deal with a lot of people incorrectly blaming him, and there's no 20+ page thread on ResetEra.
It's very strange that they got into contact with Price but not ArenaNetIt is sad to me that so many people are taking the Kotaku article and other sites as the full story.
Well what the fuck are but a baiting arsehole then?That's a pretty willfull mischaracterization of my prior posts.
Is it really hard to ask to have actually told him off (for what seem to be perceived slights, mind) instead of being a prick?
What about his posts made you think he was doing it in bad faith?
Acting nice to people who act nice towards you usually isn't a hard requirement.
Firstly, he's his own boss and gets to run his company and project its image however he likes