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Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Eternal Punishment can be considered a direct sequel to Innocent Sin, but it's not a conventional one. It works in such a way that Innocent Sin can be enjoyed and understood without ever touching Eternal Punishment, which honestly doesn't add that much to the original game. If you played through part of Persona 2 and enjoyed it, you should definitely see it through to the end. There's always the PS1 version, which can be played on emulator if you don't have a PS1 or PS2 (or can't be bothered to hook them up).
i did consider playing the game once they announced the second half is coming to psn as a ps classic, but i thought it'd be a disjointed experience to play two games with such a gap in their localization. i don't think i can go back and play them on a psp now, but i really hope atlus makes it possible in the future. while persona 1 wasn't an amazing game (imo), i still really enjoyed the atmosphere and aesthetics.
 
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Deleted member 14002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,121
I've played P1/2 but they're very antiquated now. I'd really like remakes in a somewhat modern style to make them more accessible.

i did considering playing the game once they announced the second half is coming to psn as a ps classic, but i thought it'd be a disjointed experience to play two games with such a gap in their localization. i don't think i can go back and play them on a psp now, but i really hope atlus makes it possible in the future. while persona 1 wasn't an amazing game (imo), i still really enjoyed the atmosphere and aesthetics.

If you can snag a vita or vita TV on the cheap you can play both on that platform.

P1-P4 machine. Technically you can remote play P5 too.
 

Rbz

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
675
Seems like a divisive title. I do love the idea of playing as young adults with jobs rather than high school students though, would love it if they took P6 (or a direct sequel to an older entry) in that direction. The QoL issues seem like a huge challenge; I am very spoiled by P5.
 

citrusred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,964
I own Innocent Sin and would like to play it but I'm waiting to see if the fan translation for the psp version of eternal punishment ever come out so I can play one after the other.
 

Deleted member 4037

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,989
Seems like a divisive title. I do love the idea of playing as young adults with jobs rather than high school students though, would love it if they took P6 (or a direct sequel to an older entry) in that direction. The QoL issues seem like a huge challenge; I am very spoiled by P5.
P2 IS is still high school kids mostly, EP was when they branched off to the more adult cast members. I would be surprised if they dont root it in high school at least for a first entry
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Seems like a divisive title. I do love the idea of playing as young adults with jobs rather than high school students though, would love it if they took P6 (or a direct sequel to an older entry) in that direction. The QoL issues seem like a huge challenge; I am very spoiled by P5.
The story is one of a kind to this day, and it also treats gays as something other than a joke.
 

Apollo's Sun

Member
Apr 25, 2018
145
I mean, I would imagine the player might wonder how to get "emperor" tarot cards, etc., and open their book or look it up.

I don't consider normally playing through a dungeon, without any intention of engaging in extra battles, to be "grinding." If so, then any leveling is "grinding." My opinion might be colored by the fact that I try to avoid starter personas whenever possible.

I mean that isn't the same, You know what tarot cards you're getting before a negotiation because the game tells you what tarot card each demon will give you.

The problem with rank grinding is that you have enter into extra battles if you want to get rank ups since you know if you fusion spell your way through everyone there's a likely chance you won't exactly reach a high rank before a dungeon boss.
 

Rbz

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
675
The story is one of a kind to this day, and it also treats gays as something other than a joke.

Yeah that was pretty jarring. Ryuji getting hounded by clownishly predatory gay men was so tonally bizarre, aside from being more than a little hypocritical in a game about misunderstood loners getting shafted by society.
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,050
Really need to play these completely sometime. Crossing my fingers ERA's RPG Community picks one for their next game to play trough together so I finally have an excuse to get into them. I would love to see Altus finally release the PSP version of Persona 2 ES on the PS4 or something.

loved Eternal Punishment's cast. It was a breath of fresh air in a series that always has high school kids as the protags.

This is what makes it so appealing to me. I love how you follow them from High School to College aged adults.
 

Garrod Ran

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 23, 2018
16,203
Eikichi is still the only Bro character in Persona worth a damn and Baofu is actually the coolest person in the series
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Really need to play these completely sometime. Crossing my fingers ERA's RPG Community picks one for their next game to play trough together so I finally have an excuse to get into them. I would love to see Altus finally release the PSP version of Persona 2 ES on the PS4 or something.



This is what makes it so appealing to me. I love how you follow them from High School to College aged adults.
They're way past college age, lol. The EP cast range from mid twenties to thirties.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,372
Then there's the battles themselves. Persona 5 works in such a manner that battles are over before they begin. They're meaningless. They're flashy, and it's satisfying to hit an enemy's weakpoint, but it's no more involving than FFX's respond to X with Y, although I think common battles in that game were ultimately more involving in the latter fifth of the game. When you over-emphasize strengths and weaknesses, the room for nuance is lost. Choices cease to matter, because any tactical approach is smothered by the extreme advantages and disadvantages created by the system.

I haven't played Persona 5 yet (a 100-hour JRPG that's not appropriate for kids just isn't getting played in my house these days unless it's portable), but on the hardest difficulty levels of P4G, the combat has both flash & depth, especially when you're trying to maximize your shuffle time chances. Especially the bosses - most of them have more advanced attack patterns than you find in the vast majority of turn-based JRPGs. There's a lot more to the combat than just hit the weaknesses and win.

How much better are battles in P2 compared to P1? I'm hoping a lot.

Honestly, I think combat & gameplay in general took a dive after Persona 1. They dropped the melee/gun weapon aspect in Persona 1, along with the positioning, and there's an over-emphasis on combo magic in Persona 2 making the whole thing feel even more unbalanced. I also remember the menus being particularly clunky. Like combat in Persona 1 isn't exactly great, but somehow they made it even worse in the Persona 2 games. It's a shame because the story & characters are generally better in Persona 2. The Persona 2 games are desperately in need of a real remake (not the minor upgrades that the PSP version brought) or a non-interactive version (like an anime TV series).
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,963
South Carolina
Finished P2 IS a few years ago. I disliked the experience enough that my motivation to play the sequel disappeared entirely.

-Combat was insufferably dull, sluggish, imbalanced. Tactical thinking felt needless. I loathed combat in this game.
-Tarot system was needlessly filled with too many variables spread across your entire party. There was no logic behind the scant few 'correct' options for each demon as well. It's like they took something that wasn't great in P1, and doubled down making it exponentially more irritating.
-Environments were long and tedious to maneuver through while encounter rate was incredibly high.
-Tonally it was one of the silliest jRPGs. Moody, dreary, foreboding with that heavy-handed intro, but it gets silly fast, cartoonishly so. Granted this is a Persona staple I suppose, but I felt this was far less consistent than later titles.
(Although I get the love many have for the cast of characters. They didn't resonate for me, but they are a diverse and interesting group. Mostly goofy,)

I did like the bittersweet and rather melancholy ending though(the one shining point of the journey if you ask me). The rumor system was a novel idea too, but everything else was a miss for me. Innocent Sin may be my least favorite jRPG I have played. I think I enjoyed P1 slightly more, which I played right before.

TADASHI. CRAZY.

ifdkn5D.jpg


Sometimes dark, sometimes funny, but always escalating, and always CRAZY.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I'm sorry but I can't agree with 2 being better at 5 at all.

Like maybe story but that's it.

Who cares about the variety of Persona's when you can just spam fusion spells?

The encounter rate is to damn high.

The combat isn't as engaging as 3-5 and I find random battles last to long.

I fucking hate the demon negotiation in this game. The animations and voice clips get repetitive fast. Any time I get any sort of rhythm going they'll throw in one of those stupid random question that are entirely luck based. These almost constantly screw up my conversation forcing me to start over and waste more time.

I had more fun playing in the virtual casino then I did the actual combat or dungeon crawling.

Story is good but not worth putting up with the gameplay IMO.

Frankly after hearing for years from some people about how much "better" these where compared to Persona 3 and 4 I found it to be massively disappointing.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
I'm sorry but I can't agree with 2 being better at 5 at all.

Like maybe story but that's it.

Who cares about the variety of Persona's when you can just spam fusion spells?

The encounter rate is to damn high.

The combat isn't as engaging as 3-5 and I find random battles last to long.

I fucking hate the demon negotiation in this game. The animations and voice clips get repetitive fast. Any time I get any sort of rhythm going they'll throw in one of those stupid random question that are entirely luck based. These almost constantly screw up my conversation forcing me to start over and waste more time.

I had more fun playing in the virtual casino then I did the actual combat or dungeon crawling.

Story is good but not worth putting up with the gameplay IMO.

Frankly after hearing for years from some people about how much "better" these where compared to Persona 3 and 4 I found it to be massively disappointing.
I was wondering when you'd show up.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,275
Honestly, I think combat & gameplay in general took a dive after Persona 1. They dropped the melee/gun weapon aspect in Persona 1, along with the positioning, and there's an over-emphasis on combo magic in Persona 2 making the whole thing feel even more unbalanced. I also remember the menus being particularly clunky. Like combat in Persona 1 isn't exactly great, but somehow they made it even worse in the Persona 2 games. It's a shame because the story & characters are generally better in Persona 2. The Persona 2 games are desperately in need of a real remake (not the minor upgrades that the PSP version brought) or a non-interactive version (like an anime TV series).

That's a shame. There was some depth to P1 but it really wanted to keep you at arms length. I recall Strange Journey, SMT4, and P4 as easy to understand which spells which demons had, what they did, how fusing would turn out, etc. But P1 didn't feel clearer than SMT1 to me (only they made it worse by adding cards instead ignored just straight demon fusing).

Are the P2 dungeons any better? I can't believe how many dead ends with nothing of interest 1 has. I played the first third like Shining the Holy Ark tapping the button everywhere assuming I'd find something.

Persona 2 basically uses Phantasy Star 4's battle system.

Well, this appeals to me.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
That's a shame. There was some depth to P1 but it really wanted to keep you at arms length. I recall Strange Journey, SMT4, and P4 as easy to understand which spells which demons had, what they did, how fusing would turn out, etc. But P1 didn't feel clearer than SMT1 to me (only they made it worse by adding cards instead ignored just straight demon fusing).

Are the P2 dungeons any better? I can't believe how many dead ends with nothing of interest 1 has. I played the first third like Shining the Holy Ark tapping the button everywhere assuming I'd find something.

Persona 2's are isometric, so it's easier to know when you've hit a dead end, but they're still very time consuming and elaborate.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,272
That's a shame. There was some depth to P1 but it really wanted to keep you at arms length. I recall Strange Journey, SMT4, and P4 as easy to understand which spells which demons had, what they did, how fusing would turn out, etc. But P1 didn't feel clearer than SMT1 to me (only they made it worse by adding cards instead ignored just straight demon fusing).

Are the P2 dungeons any better? I can't believe how many dead ends with nothing of interest 1 has. I played the first third like Shining the Holy Ark tapping the button everywhere assuming I'd find something.



Well, this appeals to me.

Yeah, it's basically built around Phantasy Star IV's macros and combo spells. Persona 2 also forgoes demon/persona fusion in favor of catalog shopping (It's... not a great system).

The dungeons aren't first person, so generally you can swing the camera around to see if there's anything around, but they're still not particularly interesting in design.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,015
Really need to play these completely sometime. Crossing my fingers ERA's RPG Community picks one for their next game to play trough together so I finally have an excuse to get into them. I would love to see Altus finally release the PSP version of Persona 2 ES on the PS4 or something.

Don't worry, I'll keep nominating IS until it wins lol. Would give me the motivation to finally try and really get into it.
 

PKthndr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,587
Not gonna say anything about the combat comparison to 5, but I will say that overall P2's combat is nothing special. It is really basic as far as RPGs go, and I found Innocent Sin to be the easiest Persona game I've played thus far. With the power of min maxing you can turn the MC into an indestructible god by the last third of the game. In the last dungeon most enemies barely did any damage to him and he had three times the amount of mp as everyone else. I also played through IS with barely ever changing up my Personas until the end, because I never really needed to. The story in these games is good, but I found the dungeon crawling to be mediocre at best, and that is 80% of these games.
 
OP
OP
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
It looks like I'm in the minority for my love of the game, but I'm okay with that. I do agree that it's clunky, there are too many battles, and for the most part, it's on the easy side (it's standard for games released at the same time). That being said, I would really like to see a modern Persona dump the "hitting a weak point gives you an extra turn" system, in order to create more nuance during battles. Although I get the feeling that people don't want common battles to take more than 30 seconds. I'd also like to see a system where early on in the game you can build up to a persona you'll receive much later. Maybe a "catalog" isn't the best system, but I prefer the tarot system in Persona 2 to later entries for a number of reasons. I don't think I'll get anything I want, but it's nice to dream.

I'm actually a little surprised that it doesn't sound like the PSP version toned down the encounter rate, but I guess they thought it would force the player to grind for tarot cards if they did.

The dungeons aren't first person, so generally you can swing the camera around to see if there's anything around, but they're still not particularly interesting in design.

They're a hell of a lot more interesting than those in Persona 1, which I would like to nominate as some of the worst in the genre. At least there's more to them than a single, flat wall tile and floor tile that you'll likely have to devote 3-5 hours to staring at. God, Persona 1 drove me insane. Even Devil Summoner on the Saturn was more visually interesting.
 
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Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
The almost entirely adult cast of EP was something special and will probably never happen again. It made for some great dialogue and scenarios. It was so different at the time (and still is) and I loved it (and still do). I didn't mind that I was only getting half the story- it was still entirely compelling.

Give me a cast and story like EP's and the battle system of 5 along with everyone still being able to use various Personae and you got a goddamn winner.
 

daevious

Member
Oct 25, 2017
138
As great as Persona 2's story is, its combat commits the three cardinal sins of JRPG battle systems.
It is too repetitive, too easy, and too long, even by the standards of PS1 era JRPGs.

As someone who believes that Shin Megami Tensei 1 has aged incredibly well, I can not forgive how terrible the combat is in both Persona 2 games because old school Atlus had done far better beforehand to get a pass on P2's failures in that department.
Even Persona 1's combat was less terrible.