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LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,270
Ok, so I was a little LTTP with God of War (2018) but when I finally played it I absolutely fell in love with it.

The narrative, combat, the pacing, the pure variety of content on display was amazing and I genuinely relished all of it. And those visuals...

As someone who has spent years harping on a desire to see games present themselves more cinematically through a use of dynamic camera angles during gameplay the notion of a game being a "oner" from start to finish was extremely attractive to me.

To me moments like the desert sequence in Uncharted 3(chapter 18) and the Cronos fight in God of War 3 were some of the greatest standout moments of the previous generation because of their beautiful presentation and their ability to produce the often sought out but rarely ever captured sentiment of "Wow, I'm actually playing right now?!?!?!" While I did not expect God of War(2018) to strive towards the massive scale of its predecessor(by really pulling the camera back) given an expected emphasis on a more personal story rather than an "epic" one, I did assume(and hope) that this notion of a no-cut camera would result in this generation's "OMG Desert scene" moment for me.

Suffice to say, I didn't really notice it. I could have gone into God of War with no knowledge of an intended "oner" camera system that was in effect and think nothing of the presentation or Cory's visual ambitions. To be completely honest with you I forgot about the no-cut camera's inclusion, that is, until I switched the game to immersive mode. While initially just playing briefly in immersive mode I found myself blown away by just how seamless everything seemed. I switched back to the default setting to see what was making such a visual difference, and that's when I realized that what hampered the game from achieving this oner aesthetic wasn't the health bars or rune/weapon select, it was the navigational compass at the top of the screen...

I had initially intended to do a thread on Assassin's Creed Origins, a beautiful game featuring incredible vistas and amazing architecture, only to hide them behind pretty intrusive yellow and white text all over the screen. Assassin's Creed Origins also featured the option to toggle things into an immersive mode and remove the HUD completely, the only issue I had with that was becoming lost instantly in the world and would end up wondering around directionless.

God of War isn't open world, but it features a far amount of backtracking, which frankly I enjoyed. I would argue that God of War is also visually more appealing than ACO, featuring an excellent sense of visual world building and in some in some cases gorgeous vistas. It is worth noting however that Kratos occupies more of the screen than Bayek does, sandwiching the horizon between his character model(which is impressive) and that compass in the sky.

So the dilemma I'm faced with in this situation is either toggle the HUD off and lose my way, or tolerate the HUD and largely miss out on the intended camera effect that is one of the game's greatest selling points; and beyond the camera itself, the game just looks so much better without anything on the screen.

Forgive the length of this post, but my point is I'm increasingly irritated with how games are starting to visually overwhelm the screen and take away from the image on display with UI clutter. There was a recent GoT Digital Foundry breakdown where Tom remarked that "the minimalist design works wonders for the game's aesthetic, a cinematic framing that invokes some of the best films based in the same historical period."

https://youtu.be/TpmRz7v7QzQ?t=151

And I couldn't agree more. Obviously there will be some elements that have to be projected on screen so player feedback and input are factored in, but I do wish games would at least find a way to ground feedback in the visuals rather then through a compass or large amount of text on the screen. GoT is honestly the most impressive thing I saw from this year's E3 and that is entirely due to how it uses its presentation.

I honestly leave it up to developers, but I hope there would be a system more akin to what Breath of the Wild did with it's map in making things visually more dynamic and stand out. Granted I know GoW isn't open world and relies on backtracking(which I enjoyed), I just took issue with how the compass was constantly present, even for moments where I did not have the ability to exit the area resulting in an eye sore during some of the more epic moments.

I love the way this game was designed, but going forward and thinking about a potential sequel I would like to see perhaps a more adaptive HUD. Naughty Dog games, specifically the last three, do a great job of using visual clues in the world to direct you on where to go when the map itself opens up. Not to mention TLoU also utilized a HUD that was present when enemies were close or when Joel was firing his weapons versus the HUD vanishing when things were peaceful.
 
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DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
I played entirely with no HUD and it was really amazing..

Not having to worry about life bars and could really focus on the combat.

I did have to turn the compass back on though after getting lost a few times.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
Assassin's Creed has always had interface issues. Even when they get it right they fuck with it and make it worse.

Assassin's Creed III has one of the most unbelievably bad and over-produced UIs in a AAA game.
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
I feel the "one shot" isn't really that noticeable due to how well it was done.

Either way, I would prefer if they ditch it in the next games so I can see more stuff on screen that wouldn't really be possible with no cuts. I would love to see Thor and Odin's perspectives without having to bring Kratos close.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I honestly found the one shot camera (and just the camera in general) to detract from the game more than it added to it. Cool experiment, but I hope they never do it again.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,811
Putting the compass on the Touchpad toggle mode was helped a lot. I only needed it on occasion and could bring it up when necessary without having to have it break immersion.
 

Azure Wanderer

Alt-Account
Member
Jun 27, 2018
651
Assassin's Creed has always had interface issues. Even when they get it right they fuck with it and make it worse.

Assassin's Creed III has one of the most unbelievably bad and over-produced UIs in a AAA game.
But it's also one of the series that get benefitted the most from HUD options. Every AC game since 3 has waypoints and such it's not necessary to have the minimap on. The controls are something you can disable too, and so on. You only need the health bar (if even that), mission objectives and current weapon indicator on. The rest is fluff.

Playing an AC game with minimal HUD is wonderful because truth to be told in the old games you were pretty much following a minimap. Removing it makes the world shine more.

Now on a sad example, Origins actually removed the modular options and such you only have "I don't know what I'm doing" and "Baby's first game" options. Lame, as it's got the best world out of them all.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Aside from the battles with Valkyries and challenges of the Muspelheim where cool down periods were the ultimate strategy for winning, I had the entire HUD be turned on only on the touch of the touchpad. I really hope that other studios pick up on this, especially, the first parties or exclusive makers.

This does beg the question, will the PS5 controller have a touch pad as well given I can't see GoW 5 not being on that system.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,811
Damn, I should have done that...

Was unaware of that being an option actually.
Yeah, I really hope more games adopt it. A light touch is all that you need to activate it so it's not a distracting or obtrusive input and it made the game far more immersive. I remember being disappointed when the compass got added, looked in the menus at the options, and was very happy once I tried that.
 
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LastNac

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,270
Yeah, I really hope more games adopt it. A light touch is all that you need to activate it so it's not a distracting or obtrusive input and it made the game far more immersive. I remember being disappointed when the compass got added, looked in the menus at the options, and was very happy once I tried that.
Makes me mad that isn't the default.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I feel the "one shot" isn't really that noticeable due to how well it was done.

Either way, I would prefer if they ditch it in the next games so I can see more stuff on screen that wouldn't really be possible with no cuts. I would love to see Thor and Odin's perspectives without having to bring Kratos close.
Agreed with this. The one shot didn't really do much for me presentation wise and actively made combat super frustrating in parts where you had multiple enemies on screen and some with projectile attacks.
 

HereticGrin

Member
Feb 16, 2018
385
A pretty much HUD-less experience can be had in Horizon, where iirc you could set it to only show during combat or shown with a gentle tap of the touchpad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ-z2Cn4ckg

It was brilliant and now I try to have as minimal an HUD as possible in nearly every game since, including ACO and GOW, GOW doing it quite a bit better than ACO which could have really benefited from tap touchpad for compass and NO ugly path display while on mount.
 
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Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
No one would be talking about the "one shot" camera style if the devs didn't try to make a big deal out of it. It's not that well handled honestly. We've seen this style before in other games, and I think it was handled better previously.

MGSV, while not entirely "one take", did so much more with its stylish cinematography. Even the slow paced cutscenes in that game don't actually feel slow, because the camera is always doing something interesting or noteworthy. Dead Space, while not cinematically interesting, it really took advantage of the one take to keep the player immersed. It achieved this by integrating all the menus and storytelling into the game's world.

God of War feels like a weird half step between these two games.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
I like HUDs. They can be over done and intrusive sometimes, but I like them. I'm not a "cinematic" video game guy. I prefer my games to be as gamey as possible. Not a popular opinion, but that's what I like.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
But it's also one of the series that get benefitted the most from HUD options. Every AC game since 3 has waypoints and such it's not necessary to have the minimap on. The controls are something you can disable too, and so on. You only need the health bar (if even that), mission objectives and current weapon indicator on. The rest is fluff.

Playing an AC game with minimal HUD is wonderful because truth to be told in the old games you were pretty much following a minimap. Removing it makes the world shine more.

Now on a sad example, Origins actually removed the modular options and such you only have "I don't know what I'm doing" and "Baby's first game" options. Lame, as it's got the best world out of them all.

hmm, fair enough.

Maybe Assassin's Creed should start thinking about leaving some of their more intrusive HUD options off by default, and let players who want it turn it on.
 

magatsu124

Member
May 11, 2018
229
No hud element in any game has ever bothered me for being there, I'm more bothered with the information is lacking. Plus i really missed the radar in AC Origins, I wish they would bring it back, or at least give me the option.
 
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LastNac

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,270
I like HUDs. They can be over done and intrusive sometimes, but I like them. I'm not a "cinematic" video game guy. I prefer my games to be as gamey as possible. Not a popular opinion, but that's what I like.
I don't think it's a controversial or bad opinion to have, but when a game is actively trying to be cinematic than i don't think it should conflict with its own intentions with its own HUD.
 

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,547
In later game, the hud becomes mandatory to keep track of cool downs...so you can spam op runics against sponge enemies...

I turned on the "immersive mode" from the start and really wanted to finish the whole game with it
 
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LastNac

LastNac

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,270
No one would be talking about the "one shot" camera style if the devs didn't try to make a big deal out of it. It's not that well handled honestly. We've seen this style before in other games, and I think it was handled better previously.

MGSV, while not entirely "one take", did so much more with its stylish cinematography. Even the slow paced cutscenes in that game don't actually feel slow, because the camera is always doing something interesting or noteworthy. Dead Space, while not cinematically interesting, it really took advantage of the one take to keep the player immersed. It achieved this by integrating all the menus and storytelling into the game's world.

God of War feels like a weird half step between these two games.
Also worth noting cinema/cinematic does not equate cutscene in this situation, so the MGSV cutscenes dont really factor into this conversation since I'm refering to cinematic elements mostly during gameplay such as camera movement, lighting, and even aspect ratio during playable sequences.

In regards to Dead Space however I totally agree; an amazingly immersive HUD that I wish we still saw the likes of utilized in other games.
 

TinTuba47

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,813
All games having 'one button HUD toggle' would be my #1 most wanted feature in games as a whole
 

Spartancarver

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,453
Horizon Zero Dawn did the dynamic / unobtrusive HUD even better than GoW. GoW only had on / off options, HZD had on / dynamic (combat only) / off.

That plus the touch pad to bring everything up as needed was just the best. With HZD I could at least have my ammo and health up at all times during combat, vs in GoW I would have to touch the touch pad in the middle of combos / fighting difficult enemies to check my health and cooldowns etc