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Deleted member 1258

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Here's a thread that's probably familiar for those who've kept up with threads by me. I've had a history of posting about how poorly I can handle my behavior when it comes to losing in fighting games for quite a while, and how I think it's been negatively affecting my personality. I've talked about how losing made me feel so worthless and how it at one point it led to self-abuse. I've listened to the advice of many people who posted in response to those threads, most importantly was seeing therapy. I've also stopped playing fighting games for the most part. I still play them, but very occasionally. I no longer play those games for competition or to just win, but that also means that without that drive to win I am no longer motivated to keep playing at all. And as time goes on I'm beginning to find that this line of thinking applies to just about anything I do that's for any activity. "If I can't win, why am I even trying." While no longer for fighting games, my toxic behavior has extended to playing games with my family, work, and so on. I turn everything I do into something I have to "win," or else I feel like I have no purpose in doing anything. So when I lose, I feel like my world's falling apart around me and I suffer extreme anxiety.

I've talked to my therapist about this issues, and what they've seem to have concluded was that my anger from setting myself up to fail comes from severe low self-esteem and depression. My behavior is also common for people who's parents set their kids up to be great only to not have their expectations of their children met, which describes my parents perfectly. My parents signed me up for just about every sport they could when I was going through school, all of which I hated but they wanted me to be some sort of wunderkind. I've learned that the unfortunate truth is that my mindset is so ingrained into my psyche that it is most likely impossible to get rid of, which makes me feel shittier more than anything. I feel like it's getting in my way to enjoy life and the fact that this mentality is stuck with me forever is the worst. Has anyone else feel like they've dealt with similar issues themselves, anyone have advice for what I can do to try to better myself?
 

Deleted member 8860

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I only overcame this by growing older, getting married, and having kid(s).

Now I'm operating on minimal amounts of sleep (and minimal free time), which makes for a great excuse for not winning. I'm also more concerned about creating a more enjoyable experience for others (you can't play to win against a three year old).
 

Deleted member 8860

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Try more social/party games and/or large-team-based sports, I suppose. I don't have any other advice for breaking out of the hypercompetitive mindset.
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,455
Never been in the mindset but try Yoga. Helps with self-esteem and the ability to understand what is and isn't important. Also puts into perspective how you impact those around you. Good luck!
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Not too terribly different from myself OP. I avoid MP cuz I hate losing (less so needing to win).

I would only say work on your self esteem generally. Don't just put it on video games, or at the very least a single video game or a single fight.

I have a kid too and it hasn't resolved these feelings in MP.

Only way to do that is try & succeed at more different things. Doing so has made me way less nervous in MP, but I still don't enjoy losing.
 

leafcutter

Member
Feb 14, 2018
1,219
Have you tried smoking some weed?

Lol I was about to say, stoned street fighter is very enjoyable when you have some friends over and just pass around the controllers. But OP I know what you're saying because I kind of experience it when I play fighting games online.

My only other suggestion would be to get involved in a cooperative hobby like tabletop rpgs or something.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1258

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Not too terribly different from myself OP. I avoid MP cuz I hate losing (less so needing to win).

I would only say work on your self esteem generally. Don't just put it on video games, or at the very least a single video game or a single fight.

I have a kid too and it hasn't resolved these feelings in MP.

Only way to do that is try & succeed at more different things. Doing so has made me way less nervous in MP, but I still don't enjoy losing.
What are some examples on how I can improve my self esteem?
 

Noisy Ninj4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
I dealt with something similar to this, though not to the extent you seem to have. What helped me most was to think about what winning really is and competing against myself instead of everyone else. In particular with competitive games and sports, getting some perspective helps. If you always win every time, you're gonna get bored at some point unless that's your only outlet for success. If winning like that is really so fulfilling, then maybe it's a lack of a sense of control, which people do really need. Do you feel like have control of your life?
What are some examples on how I can improve my self esteem?
Volunteer to help people, hang out with friends (for non-competitive purposes), do things that matter but aren't so high stakes. Congratulate yourself for the good things you do.
 

Azriell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,109
I'm sure your therapist would better serve you than any advice you get here. But since you're asking for additional advice here's my take.

You've identified some things in your life that bring negativity. It sucks that something you enjoy causes you suffering.I would say that maybe with enough help you will eventually get over the problem, but until then just stay away from these problem areas. Acting shitty during play because you have to win, and feeling shitty after play if you lose is not good and it's not worth it.

Maybe instead of playing these games against people, you can find another way to win, such as leader boards or hunting hard achievements. But then again if failing is going to wreck you then steer clear.

Life's too short to submerge yourself in hobbies and situations that make you miserable.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
What are some examples on how I can improve my self esteem?

That's tricky, I honestly think it depends on the person.

I volunteered for years, but never felt any special appreciation with what I was doing. It felt meaningless and did not help my self esteem at all.

For me, doing well in school, at home, and in the job market has bolstered me, and fitness has traditionally been a huge deal for me.

I also deal with perfectionism and I'm terrible at giving myself credit.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Maybe try activities where you're only competing against yourself? Things like art, language learning, or city builder games, things where "winning" isn't really a thing.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1258

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Maybe try activities where you're only competing against yourself? Things like art or city builder games, things where "winning" isn't really a thing.
I illustrate for a hobby and as a freelance job, but I've felt myself drifting away from it because I'm nowhere as good as other artists
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1258

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I'm sure your therapist would better serve you than any advice you get here. But since you're asking for additional advice here's my take.

You've identified some things in your life that bring negativity. It sucks that something you enjoy causes you suffering.I would say that maybe with enough help you will eventually get over the problem, but until then just stay away from these problem areas. Acting shitty during play because you have to win, and feeling shitty after play if you lose is not good and it's not worth it.

Maybe instead of playing these games against people, you can find another way to win, such as leader boards or hunting hard achievements. But then again if failing is going to wreck you then steer clear.

Life's too short to submerge yourself in hobbies and situations that make you miserable.
The problem is that I'm running out of options of things I can do for fun that don't eventually make me feel shitty. This in turns affects my ability to be social at all
 

Ontoue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
145
In my experience, the best way to move past something irrational like this is to lean into it. Pick your favorite fighting game and take the shittiest character you know nothing about. Tank your W/L ratio, lose every match. Not necessarily saying to not try, but put yourself in a situation where you will almost certainly lose. While you're getting bodied, pay close attention to the environment around you and note that nothing is changing. The game isn't real and winning or losing makes no actual difference. You already know this, but you have to reinforce it instinctually. Lose over and over again until it just gets boring. If it helps, try repeating out loud that you are fine, and the losing doesn't mean anything. It sounds dumb but it works for some people. Exposure in safe, controlled environments is the fastest way to get accustomed to something stressful. Avoiding the issue will only cause it to build up over time and reinforce the anxiety. In therapy there are techniques called cognitive behavioral therapy, and exposure therapy. They work very similarly to this and are often used to help people conquer debilitating phobias.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1258

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Oct 25, 2017
2,914
In my experience, the best way to move past something irrational like this is to lean into it. Pick your favorite fighting game and take the shittiest character you know nothing about. Tank your W/L ratio, lose every match. Not necessarily saying to not try, but put yourself in a situation where you will almost certainly lose. While you're getting bodied, pay close attention to the environment around you and note that nothing is changing. The game isn't real and winning or losing makes no actual difference. You already know this, but you have to reinforce it instinctually. Lose over and over again until it just gets boring. If it helps, try repeating out loud that you are fine, and the losing doesn't mean anything. It sounds dumb but it works for some people. Exposure in safe, controlled environments is the fastest way to get accustomed to something stressful. Avoiding the issue will only cause it to build up over time and reinforce the anxiety. In therapy there are techniques called cognitive behavioral therapy, and exposure therapy. They work very similarly to this and are often used to help people conquer debilitating phobias.
I've stated in the OP how I have lost over and over again, and I've even tried something to what you're describing. It worked, as I was no longer bothered by winning or losing. But that also meant that I stopped caring about it altogether and dont play it at all and I have no investment. I have no desire to go back either.

I want to be able to be invested into something without being bothered by failing. Doing what you're describing only makes me not care at all and not try ever again
 

Nemo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
422
You have to learn to laugh at yourself and realize that winning 100% of the time is impossible. Everybody wins and everybody loses.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
While not impossible, it would be extremely difficult to change since it's been a part of my behavior for so long.
It'll take time and effort and guidance, but it's far from impossible and given how unhappy you are about it, I doubt it'd be more difficult than continuing to put up with it for the rest of your life

Also, no, I have not tried CBT
I highly recommend looking into finding a therapist that specializes in it. It's main purpose is to delve into your mindset and help you become aware of the thoughts you might not even realize you're having and then understand and address them. Because of the way you talk about your reactions to losing, it sounds like there's a lot that you dont understand yet, that you're only just learning about yourself. Keep at it. The journey is long, but the rewards are life changing.

A book I read called Learned Optimism really helped me to understand the way my mind works and gave me lots of perspective on how my mind frames issues in ways that arent necessarily true.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
Like I've said, that happened to me with fighting games. I've lost so much that I dont put any thought into it anymore. But, if I dont care about winning or losing, I stop caring at all and never bother playing at all

hmmm

I dont really buy that though. You can never be the best at everything. You cant expect to be the best at anything. There will always be someone better or worse than you.

If you are the actual best at something, then you tend to realize that it took work and discipline to achieve that standard. You also won't remain at that place without possessing a sense of humility.

Youre current mindset is making you end up as Vegeta. Def strong and capable, but ultimately end up defeating yourself through brashness and overconfidence. Then you project your feelings of disappointment on outside stigma.
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,203
Losing is the only way you grow. I learned this as a little kid in martial arts classes. Losing is actually one of the best things that can happen to you.

If you win at everything, then you've surrounded yourself with mediocre people. You never want to be the biggest fish in your pond, because then you will never grow or get better at anything. Surround yourself with people who are better than you, and you improve.

I used to record my Soul Calibur II matches on VHS and rewatch them and critique them with my brothers, and we'd figure out what things we were weak at and focus on it. If you take practice and training seriously, losing can be productive if you have the right attitude. Of course sometimes it's going to piss you off, but struggle is the only way you ever change.
 

OsakaDon

Member
Oct 29, 2017
965
Osaka, Japan
I remember I was like that when I was a teenager. I would play games and would get frustrated and angry if I lost. I'd look for any excuse to blame it on.
As I got older I changed and just stopped caring about winning.
One of the reasons was because I realized I was an asshole. I must have been annoying and no fun to play with. I was no fun to play with because I would almost always win, and the focus was not as much on the excitement of playing together, it was about becoming champion. Boring.
Now I want others to have fun too, which make the experience much more enjoyable.

Also, as I aged I realized, winning is meaningless. Nobody cares, there is no end game. Have fun, laugh, bond with friends and family make some good memories. That's what is important.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1258

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hmmm

I dont really buy that though. You can never be the best at everything. You cant expect to be the best at anything. There will always be someone better or worse than you.

If you are the actual best at something, then you tend to realize that it took work and discipline to achieve that standard. You also won't remain at that place without possessing a sense of humility.

Youre current mindset is making you end up as Vegeta. Def strong and capable, but ultimately end up defeating yourself through brashness and overconfidence. Then you project your feelings of disappointment on outside stigma.
I don't think I'm blaming it on anything other than myself, my mindset is absolutely my own fault. I mentioned how low self esteem and the behavior of my parents may have contributed to it, but all of this is 100% to be blamed on me for being stupid and fucked in the head. I'd also add that I think overconfidence is a factor because I'm not confident in myself about anything
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,659
Somehow I don't think you're having that much fun when you win either.
 

Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,119
Have you tried learning some skill, or building something that has nothing to do with competition? Gardening, cooking, building things as a hobby, etc. Part of maintaining your self esteem is knowing that you have other shit going on even if you fail at something that you care about. If it's all dumped into one bucket you're going to go nuts over that single aspect of your life.
 
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