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Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
I wouldn't go quite that far. While that shows a trip and a retaliatory push, it's a very small segment and doesn't include or debunk the reported 3 previous incidents.

I'm hesitant to believe the news source linked on this as it also claims Goulding was "elbowed to the face and shoulder charged in the midsection," neither of which is accurate.

On the other side of the coin, there's the Filipino ESPN video that looks to show the same trip and shove clip but from an angle where the trip is very hard to discern, so that also appears to be an inaccurate source.

It appears that neither countries media has an interest in being completely forthright with details preferring instead to only address certain aspects.

As far as I'm concerned ban them both from international play. The violence is unacceptable as is the trash talk... Especially trash talk throughout the game and even when up 30 in the 3rd. Ban them both to send a message about all the terrible behavior wrapped up in this and ban the refs as well for being completely unable to control the court.

C'mon now. It at least shows that the Phillipines head coach is full of shit and no one should believe what they say about these other incidents the Australians supposedly did but which there is no proof of them doing.

This is professional sports. Trash talk happens all the time and is not comparable to a violent reaction. In no way should the whole Australian team cop a ban the same as the Phillipines who literally had 10+ people mobbing around an Australian on the ground beating him.

Also, at least Australia seem remorseful for the whole incident even happening.

The Phillipines team seems proud as hell at what they did: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/commen...saying_you_cant_take/?st=JJ67VR2S&sh=749a093c

THAT is why the Phillipines deserve to be banned most of all. I find it disturbing and they should get banned just to drop their pride down a peg.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
C'mon now. It at least shows that the Phillipines head coach is full of shit and no one should believe what they say about these other incidents the Australians supposedly did but which there is no proof of them doing.

This is professional sports. Trash talk happens all the time and is not comparable to a violent reaction. In no way should the whole Australian team cop a ban the same as the Phillipines who literally had 10+ people mobbing around an Australian on the ground beating him.

Also, at least Australia seem remorseful for the whole incident even happening.

The Phillipines team seems proud as hell at what they did: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/commen...saying_you_cant_take/?st=JJ67VR2S&sh=749a093c

THAT is why the Phillipines deserve to be banned most of all. I find it disturbing and they should get banned just to drop their pride down a peg.

I feel like taking the stance that "trash talk happens all the time in sports" while simultaneously saying that the other team's coach shouldn't have encouraged or been proud of what his team did is disingenuous. Either that or you don't know sports well enough to make the former statement to begin with.

Yes, professionals mess with each other to get into each others heads but at the point where you're up 30 points and you're literally dominating the game, it's not even slightly necessary. The only time trash talk continues on that level is when there's legitimate rivalry going on and these teams don't play each other often enough for that to be the case. Coaches in sports across the board absolutely will encourage their players to stand up for themselves and their teammates if the officials aren't doing it. There's been fights and brawls in the NBA (it doesn't get this bad because more money is on the line). Bad Hits, Hard Hits, and all kinds of jacked up stuff in during dogpiles in the NFL. Bench clearing in Baseball when a pitcher intentionally hits a batter with a pitch. Hockey pretty much legitimizes violent retaliation with positions for Goons. All of this is a side effect of too much bravado and masculinity contests. It happens in sports and either you accept it all or your decry it all.

Did the Philippines go overboard? Definitely. But if you're trying to look at this objectively I don't see how that happens unless there's something legitimate to their complaints. They've been blown out before without the court erupting into bedlam. So the question should be why did this happen this time? What led to this moment? As observers, it should already be apparent and well known that a lot of stuff happens in professional sports that just isn't talked about publicly. That stuff stays quiet generally because it's not easily discerned from cameras. Hell on the court in the NBA, players will straight up cover their mouths with their jerseys to keep stuff under wraps. So while I would agree with the sentiment that as observers we shouldn't speculate on what was said or what may have happened that the cameras didn't catch, I don't think it's fair either to assume Australia had little to no role in things getting to the point where a fight broke out.

So yes, I feel both teams should be punished because at the end of the day, both teams know what they did, even if they don't speak on it. The other international teams will know the full extent of what happened as well, even if they won't discuss it publicly. And a message needs to be sent that this kind of clown show bullshit on both sides won't be tolerated. If they both aren't punished then you can bet the message sent will be "as long as you don't get caught being a shit head on camera, you can keep being a shit head." And more stuff like this will continue to happen.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
The more information that comes out the more the conduct of the Philippines team/staff looks systemically poor.
 

Tmecha

Member
Oct 31, 2017
22
Suspend the aussie and Filipino player in the elbow tussles but who ever was involved in kicking, punching and throwing chairs at the aussie laying defenceless on ground should be banned for life.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,093
As an Aussie and a long time basketball fan i cant say this really suprises me. The Australian team have always played rough. And the Philippine team seemed to be playing just a rough leading up to it. Of course the outcome was disgusting and both teams should wear the blame and feel ashamed.

Thon Maker with those jump knees though. Omg. Feel hypocritical for laughing but that was quite a sight
 

Ogre

Member
Mar 26, 2018
435
Waiting for the inevitable Maja and Yassi showdown on ASAP based on this. Yassi gonna have to be Australia, ofc.
 

Choa

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
89
https://www.news.com.au/sport/baske...s/news-story/8c59dfcdcf7f9c8420532c6ec02a563a
PHILIPPINES coach Chot Reyes has conceded he didn't hear any Australian Boomers racially abuse his players during last week's ugly brawl in Manila

In an interview on SportsCenter Philippines, Reyes was asked if Australia's players used derogatory terms to describe the Philippines players.

"No, I can say honestly that's fake news," Reyes said.

"I didn't hear or didn't have any notion that they were calling our players those terms at halftime, so I didn't see it."

This Reyes' statement occurred before racism claims were made by freelance photojournalist, Winston Baltasar.

In an interview with Australia's ABC Radio program The Ticket, Baltasar said Australian players called Gilas Pilipinas players "monkey" during the game and before the fight.

Baltasar, however, could not identify which Australian players he heard using the racial slur.

The Australian Basketballers' Association (ABA) and Basketball Australia released a joint statement on Sunday slamming the claims Baltasar alleged were made during the fight-marred game between Gilas Pilipinas and Australia at the FIBA World Cup Asian Qualifiers at the Philippine Arena in Bocaue, Bulacan on July 2.

....

The Australian Basketballers' Association CEO and former Australian Boomer, Jacob Holmes, categorically refuted the claims made by Baltasar.

"The allegations made by Mr Baltasar are unsubstantiated and highly defamatory and we are reviewing our legal avenues to address them,'' Holmes said.

"The Boomers pride themselves on their inclusive and diverse composition, just like the country they represent and the comments made by Mr Baltasar and republished by the ABC have caused immense distress to our players.

"At no stage was Basketball Australia or the ABA contacted for comment before the allegations were published, in a clear breach of the ABC's own editorial standards."
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,331
I feel like taking the stance that "trash talk happens all the time in sports" while simultaneously saying that the other team's coach shouldn't have encouraged or been proud of what his team did is disingenuous. Either that or you don't know sports well enough to make the former statement to begin with.

I'm not a fan of trash talk but I feel like there are worlds between trash talking and actually praising the team for the violent outburst.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
I'm not a fan of trash talk but I feel like there are worlds between trash talking and actually praising the team for the violent outburst.

It's not praise for "a violent outburst," it's praise for "standing up and protecting themselves" because they feel like they were getting disrespected from the trash talk and rough play and the officials weren't doing enough to stop it.

But that wasn't my point in the first place and you know that. I wasn't equating trash talking and fighting. I was stating that both teams had a role in this ending up where it did. Again, this isn't something the Philippines team has done often or is known for, so why the assumption that all of a sudden they're violent and the Aussies are completely devoid of responsibility?
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
It's not praise for "a violent outburst," it's praise for "standing up and protecting themselves" because they feel like they were getting disrespected from the trash talk and rough play and the officials weren't doing enough to stop it.

But that wasn't my point in the first place and you know that. I wasn't equating trash talking and fighting. I was stating that both teams had a role in this ending up where it did. Again, this isn't something the Philippines team has done often or is known for, so why the assumption that all of a sudden they're violent and the Aussies are completely devoid of responsibility?

Because you can't just punish people for claims that aren't proven?
 

Anti

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
2,972
Australia
It's not praise for "a violent outburst," it's praise for "standing up and protecting themselves" because they feel like they were getting disrespected from the trash talk and rough play and the officials weren't doing enough to stop it.

But that wasn't my point in the first place and you know that. I wasn't equating trash talking and fighting. I was stating that both teams had a role in this ending up where it did. Again, this isn't something the Philippines team has done often or is known for, so why the assumption that all of a sudden they're violent and the Aussies are completely devoid of responsibility?

Did you see the fkn video in this same page proving that it all started when a Filipino player tried to trip and Aussie player during warm up?
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Because you can't just punish people for claims that aren't proven?

I'm not talking about punishing "claims." The only "claims" that aren't substantiated are specific phrases. It's a fact that Australia was trash talking throughout the game. It's a fact that Australia was playing rough and are known for playing rough, throughout the game. If punishment comes down, and it should, both teams should be punished.

Did you see the fkn video in this same page proving that it all started when a Filipino player tried to trip and Aussie player during warm up?

"He started it!" doesn't alleviate the other party from responsibility.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
I'm not talking about punishing "claims." The only "claims" that aren't substantiated are specific phrases. It's a fact that Australia was trash talking throughout the game. It's a fact that Australia was playing rough and are known for playing rough, throughout the game. If punishment comes down, and it should, both teams should be punished.

This is nonsense and you should know better. You need something to actually punish rather than pure vagueness. It's a fact that everything you listed above are normal occurrences in professional sports. You need to give me something specifically that the Australians did other than "play rough" and "trash talk". So what? What did they actually do that deserves a ban? You can't just punish by assuming the Australians did something wrong because the Philippines wouldn't have attacked if they didn't. That's faulty logic. You need something of actual substance and you're not showing that. It's actually not fair to assume that the Australians must be guilty of something ban worthy.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
This is nonsense and you should know better. You need something to actually punish rather than pure vagueness. It's a fact that everything you listed above are normal occurrences in professional sports. You need to give me something specifically that the Australians did other than "play rough" and "trash talk". So what? What did they actually do that deserves a ban? You can't just punish by assuming the Australians did something wrong because the Philippines wouldn't have attacked if they didn't. That's faulty logic. You need something of actual substance and you're not showing that. It's actually not fair to assume that the Australians must be guilty of something ban worthy.

It absolutely is not nonsense and you absolutely can punish them for their role in perpetuating the atmosphere that resulted in this fight. It's not a Court of Law, it's a private basketball tournament where the athletes are and should be expected to act with a certain decorum. You want to know why this stuff is so limited in the NBA? Because the NBA wouldn't hesitate to fine and/or suspend players liberally for the roles they played in this kind of stuff. Again, none of what I'm talking about is assumption. We're talking about things that *actually* happened at this point. The Governing Body of the Tournament completely has the ability to set the tone of expected behavior on the court in their games. Every single sport organization does this and it's absolutely true that if an organization doesn't actively police this stuff, the actions will permeate play across the board. Holding teams and players to a standard is necessary.

By not punishing Australia, the Governing Body would be sending the message that it's ok to be excessive in bad sportsmanship and rough play, provided you don't go as far as being the first to punch (or forearm as-it-were). "Just don't get caught starting it" dirty play would be seen as ok and it absolutely 100% should not be.