How influential was the Metal Gear series to the games industry?

NO!R · Jul 9, 2018

Before people started chiding Kojima for wanting to be a film director and mocking the quality of the writing and plot contortions, the Metal Gear Solid games were often said to be elevating the medium.

Understandably, that statement alone will illicit more than a few scoffs nowadays (Quiet, 3 hour cutscenes, etc...).

But let's think back to a time when well directed and presented cutscenes weren't the norm. Say what you will about Kojima, but the guy knows film and style, he ostensibly brought the presentation and production value of Hollywood over to games, and that includes gameplay segments.

Well researched, authentic locales, intricately rendered weapons, military advisor on set, bombastic orchestral scores, motion capture... I mean, the works. I can't really think of a contemporary series or game that pushed the envelope so much in this regard during the time of MGS2 and Snake Eater.

We take a lot of these aspects of videogame making at face value as of today, with Naughty Dog games, with DICE's militaristic renditions, and with the overall increased attention to cinematographic detail in current AAA games.

Things like camera lens simulation, one shot takes, film grain, chromatic aberration, etc.. may incite some gamers to groan and roll their eyes lately, but I think it shows a will to mature the medium as an art form. Not to mention meticulous attention to detail, intricately conceived levels that encourage players to engage with the environment in meaningful ways, strong efforts on stories and the authenticity of characters are becoming increasingly important staples of gaming.

Admittedly, I'm a fan. Or was. I fell off the bandwagon with the last three games a bit, but I struggle to think of more influential series.

It's easy to forget and dismiss the influence of the Metal Gear games when thinking of them as just a poorly written, melodramatic series that disappeared up it's own plot's ass.

I miss Metal Gear in its prime...

How do the rest of you measure the importance of the Metal Gear franchise's accomplishments? Do you scoff at it? Respect them, but consider them superfluous in the medium?

TheYanger · Jul 9, 2018

I think some of the stuff you mentioned is being misattributed here (The attention to detail was always something you'd see in PC sims for instance), but yeah...It's undeniable that MGS was the first game that truly nailed the cinematic experience. By far. I think we'd have gotten there eventually anyway, plenty of games were going to cutscenes and stuff by this point, but the perfect melding rather than just 'do a mission, get a short CG' was pretty novel.

Dreamboum · Jul 9, 2018

It was extremely influential. Metal Gear Solid pushed the envelope of something more than cutscene direction with a blockbuster presentation, it allowed people to connect with a big production with its attention to detail in terms of game design. MGS1 was basically made to be talked about. Just look at the Grey Fox room where pretty much everything is destructible. It was the focus on setpieces that set it apart. Look at Psycho Mantis and his antics.

But I think it was more influential at the start of the series because it didn't forgo its identity as a video game, whereas later MGS games with 3 included was just cutting back on the game-like elements for the story.

I think MGS2 is his strongest work, and maybe the most influential on a narrative level. It was more than a 80s action movie, it was truly a game that used the medium as a spring to comment on itself and its status as a video game. Admittedly it wasn't the first to do that, but it was the most effective.

MGS was hype on another level. A drug Kojima is so enamored with that he is at that point where he cannot deliver on what he gives. At this point, the marketing is much more of a game than what his games actually are. MGS used to deliver on both fronts. He knew that marketing was part of the game, and he was playing with us as we are playing with him from Raiden as a secret character from 20+ minutes trailers. And it worked.

Arklite · Jul 9, 2018

True MGS nailed the cinematic feel but really games in general look to film for inspiration, not really MGS. Actually I feel like MGS's gaming quirks and interesting designs inspired a lot less than they should have.

Zolbrod · Jul 9, 2018

I think Kojima is a master at making use of the medium, and providing experiences that are only possible in video games, which I don't think has been copied by very many other companies/directors at all, so I'm not actually sure if he was "influential" in that sense.
I don't know much about cinematography though, so I can't comment on that.
Like, I know Naughty Dog loves their cinematography, but I don't know if it's been influenced by Kojima/MGS much, and their work certainly doesn't contain the kind of 4th-wall breaking malarkey Kojima is known for.

NO!R · Jul 9, 2018

TheYanger said:
I think some of the stuff you mentioned is being misattributed here (The attention to detail was always something you'd see in PC sims for instance), but yeah...It's undeniable that MGS was the first game that truly nailed the cinematic experience. By far. I think we'd have gotten there eventually anyway, plenty of games were going to cutscenes and stuff by this point, but the perfect melding rather than just 'do a mission, get a short CG' was pretty novel.

I did think about Deus Ex when I thought of heavily detailed games predating MGS, but just looking at MGS2&3 in their upres'ed remasters and how well they hold up, it's undeniable the level of polish and detail that went into these games.

MGS3 in particular, the presentation is downright obsessive. It's also very sandbox-y.

Dreamboum said:
It was extremely influential. Metal Gear Solid pushed the envelope of something more than cutscene direction with a blockbuster presentation, it allowed people to connect with a big production with its attention to detail in terms of game design. MGS1 was basically made to be talked about. Just look at the Grey Fox room where pretty much everything is destructible. It was the focus on setpieces that set it apart. Look at Psycho Mantis and his antics.

But I think it was more influential at the start of the series because it didn't forgo its identity as a video game, whereas later MGS games with 3 included was just cutting back on the game-like elements for the story.

I think MGS2 is his strongest work, and maybe the most influential on a narrative level. It was more than a 80s action movie, it was truly a game that used the medium as a spring to comment on itself and its status as a video game. Admittedly it wasn't the first to do that, but it was the most effective.

MGS was hype on another level. A drug Kojima is so enamored with that he is at that point where he cannot deliver on what he gives. At this point, the marketing is much more of a game than what his games actually are. MGS used to deliver on both fronts. He knew that marketing was part of the game, and he was playing with us as we are playing with him from Raiden as a secret character from 20+ minutes trailers. And it worked.

+1

Well said.

Deleted member 16876 · Jul 9, 2018

Extremely influential.

Even games like Manhunt shared some mechanics from it like the wall punching to attract enemies or being able to resume stealth even when you are seen.

weltalldx · Jul 9, 2018

I think the original Metal Gear Solid for PSX was one of the most ground breaking, innovative, and influential game of all time. That game normalize and popularize "cinematic gaming" and was the forerunner to modern day AAA cinematic games series such as : COD, Uncharted, etc. It introduced a whole generation of gamers to "otaku" culture and along with many other legendary games during the PSX era, made Japanese games as the defacto for high quality gaming output.

It was during the PS2 era that I believe Kojima's genius began to slip. MGS2 seem like it wanted to be a different game but had to stick with the Metal Gear name. The change in tone/theme/setting certainly suggest as much in my opinion. MGS2, although highly praised, was misunderstood at the time by MGS fans including myself. It took a huge leap in gameplay/graphics, but the story and characters were not nearly as memorible or liked. With MGS2 criticism and GTA3 becoming the new torch bearer for the PS2 generation, Kojima made MGS3 which was launched to fewer fanfare than MGS2 and I believe cause Kojima to become obsessed and confused with trying to outdo GTA. This obsession with competing with GTA made him even weirder, which was reflected in all the games post MGS3.

Metal Gear gears after MGS3 are so weird and dare I say, juvenile, that Kojima suddenly became known as this eccentric and oddball game creator. I don't think this description is something he anticipated, because the original MGS, although dealing in scifi/anime tropes, were very serious and mature in tone/theme/story. Kojima may have lost it in terms of being relevant in today's gaming environment with MGS5. Death Stranding will be the game to proof what type of a game creator Kojima really is.

Hayeya · Jul 9, 2018

It was inspirational for sure, especially for me, i grew up with the series and enjoyed the mix of politics, manga and real life events.

Each release was an event for me, and each title had a deep message (especially MGS2).

Callibretto · Jul 9, 2018

Well even if you dismiss the cinematic presentation, a lot of games have stealth mechanic nowadays. Surely that's inspired by metal gear to some level.

Deleted member 2254 · Jul 9, 2018

I'll go against the popular opinion and say that it wasn't all that influential. Gaming was already on its course to become more and more cinematic in their presentation, with games like Goldeneye, Tomb Raider and Final Fantasy VII releasing before MGS and already going in that direction. The kind of storytelling it does wasn't really replicated by a lot of games either. If anything, it's the stealth elements, but again, the stealth in Hitman or Splinter Cell really isn't the same as the one in Metal Gear either. To me it feels like the smaller elements of the games might have inspired a lot of developers even indirectly, but MGS didn't really spawn a gaming movement or anything. For that, think of how many clones games like Doom or Call Of Duty have/had. How half the third person action games after God Of War 1 had to be like that. How Gears Of War redefined third person shooters to this day. Or Halo that pushed every FPS to have vehicles. Or Age Of Empires that spawned a billion generic historic RTS games from who knows where. I don't feel Metal Gear was that influential, overall, but it undeniably holds an important place in gaming history if not else because probably all major devs played those games, and likely got influenced by it in some way, even if indirectly.

BlacJack · Jul 9, 2018

BiGBoSSMk23 said:
Before people started chiding Kojima for wanting to be a film director and mocking the quality of the writing and plot contortions, the Metal Gear Solid games were often said to be elevating the medium.

Understandably, that statement alone will illicit more than a few scoffs nowadays (Quiet, 3 hour cutscenes, etc...).

But let's think back to a time when well directed and presented cutscenes weren't the norm. Say what you will about Kojima, but the guy knows film and style, he ostensibly brought the presentation and production value of Hollywood over to games, and that includes gameplay segments.

Well researched, authentic locales, intricately rendered weapons, military advisor on set, bombastic orchestral scores, motion capture... I mean, the works. I can't really think of a contemporary series or game that pushed the envelope so much in this regard during the time of MGS2 and Snake Eater.

We take a lot of these aspects of videogame making at face value as of today, with Naughty Dog games, with DICE's militaristic renditions, and with the overall increased attention to cinematographic detail in current AAA games.

Things like camera lens simulation, one shot takes, film grain, chromatic aberration, etc.. may incite some gamers to groan and roll their eyes lately, but I think it shows a will to mature the medium as an art form. Not to mention meticulous attention to detail, intricately conceived levels that encourage players to engage with the environment in meaningful ways, strong efforts on stories and the authenticity of characters are becoming increasingly important staples of gaming.

Admittedly, I'm a fan. Or was. I fell off the bandwagon with the last three games a bit, but I struggle to think of more influential series.

It's easy to forget and dismiss the influence of the Metal Gear games when thinking of them as just a poorly written, melodramatic series that disappeared up it's own plot's ass.

I miss Metal Gear in its prime...

How do the rest of you measure the importance of the Metal Gear franchise's accomplishments? Do you scoff at it? Respect them, but consider them superfluous in the medium?

Really i think the only thing it truely did first and better than the rest was cinematic gaming. If anything I feel MGS has always been behind the curve in gameplay/graphics whatnot (until maybe 4, but even then Crysis was out). I love the games a lot but no one else really mimicked anything the games did, Even the cinematics are a stretch as it felt more JRPG ish back in the day and it was so over the top that people didn't really build upon it, but went their own direction.

I don't think that's a bad thing mind you. I think it's sort of impressive that MGS is still so unique after all these years (decades).

Callibretto said:
Well even if you dismiss the cinematic presentation, a lot of games have stealth mechanic nowadays. Surely that's inspired by metal gear to some level.

Even by the time MGS1 came out stealth had been done and at a more refined, and open ending way. It'd be hard to argue that MGS is why stealth is so popular.

Hobbesian Thudercat · Jul 9, 2018

Arklite said:
True MGS nailed the cinematic feel but really games in general look to film for inspiration, not really MGS. Actually I feel like MGS's gaming quirks and interesting designs inspired a lot less than they should have.

The absolute truth.

PrimeBeef · Jul 9, 2018

Callibretto said:
Well even if you dismiss the cinematic presentation, a lot of games have stealth mechanic nowadays. Surely that's inspired by metal gear to some level.

Theif was released same year and was all about stealth. Maybe Theif inspired stealth sections. :)

Callibretto · Jul 9, 2018

BlacJack said:
Really i think the only thing it truely did first and better than the rest was cinematic gaming. If anything I feel MGS has always been behind the curve in gameplay/graphics whatnot (until maybe 4, but even then Crysis was out). I love the games a lot but no one else really mimicked anything the games did, Even the cinematics are a stretch as it felt more JRPG ish back in the day and it was so over the top that people didn't really build upon it, but went their own direction.

I don't think that's a bad thing mind you. I think it's sort of impressive that MGS is still so unique after all these years (decades).

Even by the time MGS1 came out stealth had been done and at a more refined, and open ending way. It'd be hard to argue that MGS is why stealth is so popular.

Isn't metal gear like the first stealth game ever? Not metal gear solid, but the original one.

BlacJack · Jul 9, 2018

Callibretto said:
Isn't metal gear like the first stealth game ever? Not metal gear solid, but the original one.

005 and Castle Wolfenstein are often considered the first stealth games, almost 6 years before it. But I'd bet Metal Gear was more popular than at least the former. It was one of the first sure, but the stealth genre that really blew up was the open world open gameplay style of sneak from the likes of System Shock 1 and 2, Thief, Deus Ex, etc. So many developers were trying it by the time MGS came out it's hard to credit them or anyone really. Back in the 80s I wouldn't know who was the biggest though. It wasn't a purely unique idea either way you look at it.

Dommo · Jul 9, 2018

weltalldx said:
Metal Gear gears after MGS3 are so weird and dare I say, juvenile, that Kojima suddenly became known as this eccentric and oddball game creator. I don't think this description is something he anticipated, because the original MGS, although dealing in scifi/anime tropes, were very serious and mature in tone/theme/story. Kojima may have lost it in terms of being relevant in today's gaming environment with MGS5. Death Stranding will be the game to proof what type of a game creator Kojima really is.

MGS1 is absolutely not mature. I played the series for the first time a couple years ago without knowing much about them, starting with the original, and I was floored at how goofy and juvenile it is. It felt like a teenager had watched a whole lot of military and sci-fi films and was pretty good at replicating a lot of those cinematic stylings. Snake is an obnoxious asshole, constantly hitting on all his female counterparts. He recognises Meryl by the way her ass jiggles. Otacon is inexplicably in love with an assassin he's never met and laments her death with the deafening thud of a line: "Can love bloom on the battlefield?" Like, no doubt the games get weirder and more obnoxiously convoluted after, but let's not pretend MGS1 was some kind of grounded, mature war drama.

Callibretto · Jul 9, 2018

Dommo said:
MGS1 is absolutely not mature. I played the series for the first time a couple years ago without knowing much about them, starting with the original, and I was floored at how goofy and juvenile it is. It felt like a teenager had watched a whole lot of military and sci-fi films and was pretty good at replicating a lot of those cinematic stylings. Snake is an obnoxious asshole, constantly hitting on all his female counterparts. He recognises Meryl by the way her ass jiggles. Otacon is inexplicably in love with an assassin he's never met and laments her death with the deafening thud of a line: "Can love bloom on the battlefield?" Like, no doubt the games get weirder and more obnoxiously convoluted after, but let's not pretend MGS1 was some kind of grounded, mature war drama.

Mgs1 is like 90s anime, later mgs is also anime, but has also adapt many of modern anime tropes.

Extremely Solid · Jul 9, 2018

Its influence is undeniable. Each game delivered something special - each, in a different way from the next game. There will never be games like MGS4 and Peace Walker again, in particular. The definition of a handheld device has changed significantly due to the Switch's presence, but can you even imagine a game being developed for a (strictly) portable device with the kind of production values Peace Walker had? Anyways, I'm glad Kojima is no longer constrained by the property. The ideas he executed on in the early stages of Silent Hills' development alone were shaping up to realize the dreams of millions. Playing (and replaying) some of his non-MGS titles has really given me confidence that Death Stranding will be yet another memorable title released under his direction.

NO!R · Jul 9, 2018

weltalldx said:
It was during the PS2 era that I believe Kojima's genius began to slip. MGS2 seem like it wanted to be a different game but had to stick with the Metal Gear name. The change in tone/theme/setting certainly suggest as much in my opinion. MGS2, although highly praised, was misunderstood at the time by MGS fans including myself. It took a huge leap in gameplay/graphics, but the story and characters were not nearly as memorible or liked. With MGS2 criticism and GTA3 becoming the new torch bearer for the PS2 generation, Kojima made MGS3 which was launched to fewer fanfare than MGS2 and I believe cause Kojima to become obsessed and confused with trying to outdo GTA.

I disagree.

Kojima embraced the unsettling alternate future weirdness of MGS1 and built on it with 2. Furthermore, he used it to get an even more unsettling message across. All while going balls to the wall with the cutscenes and production values.

MGS2's hype was unparalleled at the time in large part due to the sheer quality of the presentation.

GTA3 had very little impact on this.

Sanctuary · Jul 9, 2018

For it supposedly being as influential as MGS is, I haven't yet played another game that reminded me of it in any way. Simply having well done cutscenes isn't all that's required, and Kojima's direction was as unique then as it is now (for better or worse). I ~~really enjoyed~~ loved MGS and the second game slightly less, but then kind of just gave up on the series for a while. MGS4 bored me to tears, and I actually played MGS3 after it (good, but not GOAT or anything like it's constantly lauded to be).

PrimeBeef said:
Theif was released same year and was all about stealth. Maybe Theif inspired stealth sections. :)

Thief, MGS and Tenchu all released within three months (US) of each other. The only other games that I've played where the stealth component was in the vein of MGS would be the Splinter Cell series. Most other stealth games seem take on the Thief or Deus Ex style.

Dr. Caroll · Jul 9, 2018

This is a complicated topic. Of course Metal Gear had some influence on the industry, but it tends to be more subtle things. There are games that are clearly Metal Gear influenced, but much of its design never found favor. Leaving aside the MSX Games which I think were somewhat influential, Metal Gear Solid's stealth design was extremely primitive compared to 1998 peers. It really wasn't much of an influence on the stealth genre as a whole. It's pure line of sight. Thief gave us light and dark and complex sound mechanics. GoldenEye a year earlier gave us the core stealth shooting mechanics of the genre.

Also, Metal Gear Solid didn't change videogame storytelling all that much. It was just the first mature (although its maturity is debated) military game many console gamers had played. PC audiences had been playing story-rich mature games with a "cinematic" bent for many years. Although due to graphical limitations using live action actors was popular in series like Wing Commander. But it's not like Metal Gear Solid invented "cinematic" games that told their overwrought stories through cutscenes.

The point and click adventure genre was popular for many years on PC, and it gave us gripping, extremely mature in a range of subgenres. Metal Gear Solid's contribution to videogame storytelling as an artform isn't all that strong. It did contribute, of course, but other games had been doing similar things in various genres for years.

weltalldx · Jul 9, 2018

BiGBoSSMk23 said:
I disagree.

Kojima embraced the unsettling alternate future weirdness of MGS1 and built on it with 2. Furthermore, he used it to get an even more unsettling message across. All while going balls to the wall with the cutscenes and production values.

MGS2's hype was unparalleled at the time in large part due to the sheer quality of the presentation.

GTA3 had very little impact on this.

I don't know who is revising history here, but from what I remember and experienced, MGS2 left a very bitter and disappointing impression after it was released.

Then when GTA3 and its subsequent sequels were released between MGS2 and MGS3, they became the talk of the town, the new fad. I remember everyone praising GTA3 and many studios and games were trying to replicate and emulate its formula/success. GTA stole much of MGS3's thunder and took spotlight away from Kojima himself, which I believe, he wanted and needed after being elevated so high with MGS1/MGS2. As history has shown, the GTA3 series set in motion and paved way for the rise and dominance of western developed titles in the PS360 era.

Reading between the lines in many of Kojima's trailers for MGS4/MGS5, it sounded like he was obsess with competing with the west.

Lukemia SL · Jul 9, 2018

Dark1x mentioned Metal Gear Solid in the Shenmue video regarding real-time cutscenes in the whole game. I think It's been pretty influential for cinematics in games.

Rosenkrantz · Jul 9, 2018

For better or worse it was one of the first games that started the whole video games as a narrative experience thing. Kind of strange considering that there were plenty much better written adventure games at the time, but my guess they lacked the package of MGS with its flashy (at the time) cinematics.

I don't think MGS games leaved much impact on stealth genre in terms of gameplay. It seems that Looking Glass/Ion Storm philosophy of design had much more influence on the genre.

Sanctuary · Jul 9, 2018

Rosenkrantz said:
For better or worse it was one of the first games that started the whole video games as a narrative experience thing. Kind of strange considering that there were plenty much better written adventure games at the time, but my guess they lacked the package of MGS with its flashy (at the time) cinematics.

I don't think MGS games leaved much impact on stealth genre in terms of gameplay. It seems that Looking Glass/Ion Storm philosophy of design had much more influence on the genre.

It might have been one of the first games, but FF7 was the first game to actually do it in a big way for consoles. MGS was probably one of the first on consoles to use in game engine cutscenes like it did, but it definitely didn't start the cinematic revolution. Games had been doing that for at least a good five years prior in general, and especially on PC. In terms of the overall package though, it was the best up until then. FF7 was overly ambitious, and had a severe lack of consistency with its aesthetics.

Rosenkrantz · Jul 9, 2018

Sanctuary said:
Games had been doing that for at least a good five years prior in general, and especially on PC.

That's true. And I think that PC being a main platform for such games is the reason why these games aren't credited as trendsetters. The platform wasn't very popular at the time.

Thornquist · Jul 9, 2018

Count me in as one of the people that think Kojima slowly went up his own asshole with the subsequent games after the phenomenon that was MGS1. Even that game could have been improved with some more heavy editing.

The Metal Gear games have always seemed somewhat niche to me, they exist in their own little world, with a very vocal fanbase (a group that I considered belonging to myself, in the beginning).

Betty · Jul 9, 2018

I consider modern cinematic gaming having started with the first MGS, so fairly influintial i'd say.

thomasmahler · Jul 9, 2018

I thought Metal Gear Solid (PS1) was hugely influential. I never thought much about the sequels. Was hugely hyped for MGS2, but everything after MGS had this insane Kojima weirdness that I'm not a fan of. MGS4 and 5 were mediocre games in my opinion. Kinda feel like Kojima is another one of those designers that peaked in the 90s, much like Cliffy and Jaffe.

Alo0oy · Jul 9, 2018

Just because stealth games existed before MGS, doesn't mean that MGS wasn't a very influential game in the genre. Both the first and second game introduced a lot of stealth mechanics that you see in many games today.

Arklite · Jul 9, 2018

Betty said:
I consider modern cinematic gaming having started with the first MGS, so fairly influintial i'd say.

In terms of encouraging better cutscene direction I can see its quality being a goal for other directors. Thing with that is directors will all want to implement their own style anyway. MGS is really all about how high it's overall production values were for the time.

gfxtwin · Jul 9, 2018

The love for Kojima is understandable when you put into context the fact that he's consistently innovated the stealth action genre since the 80's, during the starting point of console gaming. And suddenly, after not being pressed to make MGS games any more, we get crazy visionary shit like Silent Hills and Death Stranding that implies he's been holding back the entire time (although we did catch a glimpse of it with the ambitious cutscene direction of MGS5).

I also love how he trolls audience expectations. The way he poked fun at the toxic masculinity of MGS fanboys with Raiden's character arch, the memory card prank, following up the cutscene-bloated MGS4 with MGS5's lack of story, and his middle finger to Konami's removal of his MGS5 directing credit via adding "created by Hideo Kojima" credits sequences at the end of every mission lol. Dude is so good at what he does and also legit funny and it flavors the unique experience of playing his games and following his career.

Shauni · Jul 9, 2018

Dreamboum said:
It was extremely influential. Metal Gear Solid pushed the envelope of something more than cutscene direction with a blockbuster presentation, it allowed people to connect with a big production with its attention to detail in terms of game design. MGS1 was basically made to be talked about. Just look at the Grey Fox room where pretty much everything is destructible. It was the focus on setpieces that set it apart. Look at Psycho Mantis and his antics.

But I think it was more influential at the start of the series because it didn't forgo its identity as a video game, whereas later MGS games with 3 included was just cutting back on the game-like elements for the story.

I think MGS2 is his strongest work, and maybe the most influential on a narrative level. It was more than a 80s action movie, it was truly a game that used the medium as a spring to comment on itself and its status as a video game. Admittedly it wasn't the first to do that, but it was the most effective.

MGS was hype on another level. A drug Kojima is so enamored with that he is at that point where he cannot deliver on what he gives. At this point, the marketing is much more of a game than what his games actually are. MGS used to deliver on both fronts. He knew that marketing was part of the game, and he was playing with us as we are playing with him from Raiden as a secret character from 20+ minutes trailers. And it worked.

I don't see any real truth to this.

Shauni · Jul 9, 2018

gfxtwin said:
The love for Kojima is understandable when you put into context the fact that he's consistently innovated the stealth action genre since the 80's, during the starting point of console gaming. And suddenly, after not being pressed to make MGS games any more, we get crazy visionary shit like Silent Hills and Death Stranding that implies he's been holding back the entire time (although we did catch a glimpse of it with the ambitious cutscene direction of MGS5).

I also love how he trolls audience expectations. The way he poked fun at the toxic masculinity of MGS fanboys with Raiden's character arch, the memory card prank, following up the cutscene-bloated MGS4 with MGS5's lack of story, and his middle finger to Konami's removal of his MGS5 directing credit via adding "created by Hideo Kojima" credits sequences at the end of every mission lol. Dude is so good at what he does and also legit funny and it flavors the unique experience of playing his games and following his career.

None of these are trolls at all lol. I don't know about the last one, not sure if that was either really.

Mister X · Jul 9, 2018

MGS started the cinematic gaming approach imo.

...damn it I miss MGS.

hotcyder · Jul 9, 2018

I feel as if I read somewhere that Splinter Cell was influenced by Metal Gear Solid and Thief so its mechanical design certainly was carried forward. I could even see how the stealth model of MGS3 Subsistence may have influenced stuff like Assassins Creed.

I imagine trying to adapt cinematic techniques that were a big part of MGS1 have paved the way for other cinematic games.

Extremely Solid · Jul 9, 2018

thomasmahler said:
Kinda feel like Kojima is another one of those designers that peaked in the 90s, much like Cliffy and Jaffe.

This is the exact opposite of how I feel about Kojima. Mechanically, his games are among - if not, the very best within their genre upon the time of their release. I know people who strongly like and strongly dislike both MGS4 and MGSV, in particular, but the one thing they all agree on is that those games are mechanically sound. Personally, I can't even imagine considering him one of those developers lost to time, no matter how much his games may not be for you.

Commodore64 · Jul 9, 2018

The influence of Metal Gear Solid could easily be seen by how many big games adopted it's mechanics. Even Tony hawk got a stealth mission at one point.

Extremely Solid · Jul 9, 2018

Commodore64 said:
The influence of Metal Gear Solid could easily be seen by how many big games adopted it's mechanics. Even Tony hawk got a stealth mission at one point.

Funny that MGS got a Tony Hawk mission at another point...

Treasure Silvergun · Jul 9, 2018

If you ask me, MGS2 is THE reason the military setting, the brown-grey color palette, the gruff male hero (soldier or not) and the continuous, long cutscenes became mainstream in AAA games in the 2000s. Funny thing is, it took a Japanese director to open the floodgates to such distinctly western themes.

I am absolutely convinced that MGS2 and GTA3 are the two games that changed mainstream AAA gaming forever. So yeah, if not for gameplay mechanics, MGS has been one of the most influential game series post-2000, for better or worse.

Dreamboum · Jul 9, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
If you ask me, MGS2 is THE reason the military setting, the brown-grey color palette, the gruff male hero (soldier or not) and the continuous, long cutscenes became mainstream in AAA games in the 2000s. Funny thing is, it took a Japanese director to open the floodgates to such distinctly western themes.

I am absolutely convinced that MGS2 and GTA3 are the two games that changed mainstream AAA gaming forever. So yeah, if not for gameplay mechanics, MGS has been one of the most influential game series post-2000, for better or worse.

Nothing about MGS2 is grey

Dr. Caroll · Jul 9, 2018

It is interesting to note that there are a few games with clear and irrefutable influence from Metal Gear Solid. One of them being Winback. Winback has the exact same style of poncy blonde villains spouting arrogant nonsense and everything is super longwinded and "cinematic". Winback pioneered the third person cover shooter. It also conspicuously featured a section where you moved through a conveyor belt room by hiding behind the boxes that it carried, not unlike MGS2.

My favorite piece of Metal Gear inspired media is the Russian Far Cry mod Massive Attack, though starring Russian Solid Snake and... it's completely batshit and rough as hell but amazing all the same. I think Headhunter is pretty clearly Metal Gear Solid influenced. Right down to the VR training missions. Crazy game, that one. Metal Gear Solid seemingly left something of an impression on Russian audiences, because there was even a Russian Metal Gear Solid ripoff called Gorky Zero back in the day.

If you look around you can find some clear examples of Metal Gear design elements turning up in later games. Not necessarily stealth games, though. Resident Evil 4's radio is basically the Codec system Metal Gear popularized. (I'm not sure if it has origins elsewhere.) Third person games where you switch to first person when entering vents -- I know Duke Nukem: Zero Hour adopted this idea.

Alo0oy said:
Just because stealth games existed before MGS, doesn't mean that MGS wasn't a very influential game in the genre. Both the first and second game introduced a lot of stealth mechanics that you see in many games today.

What mechanics did they introduce? Metal Gear Solid's stealth design is barely any different to Metal Gear before it. It's essentially a 2D game translated into 3D. Most modern stealth games took after Thief and its successors such as Splinter Cell, where light and sound formed the core of stealth. Things like verticality didn't exist in Metal Gear until MGS4, and even it was a largely horizontal game.

Dreamboum · Jul 9, 2018

Shauni said:
I don't see any real truth to this.

Ok

gfxtwin · Jul 9, 2018

Shauni said:
None of these are trolls at all lol. I don't know about the last one, not sure if that was either really.

He definitely knows how audiences will react to his work, regardless of how much of the story was planned vs improvised. Dudebros on gaming messageboards were enraged at Raiden for being the actual protagonist of MGS2 but not grizzled and macho like Snake, and were just as angry at Kojima for having the audacity to betray their expectations, completely oblivious to the fact that Raiden would eventually become a more badass character than Snake ever was.

Treasure Silvergun said:
If you ask me, MGS2 is THE reason the military setting, the brown-grey color palette, the gruff male hero (soldier or not) and the continuous, long cutscenes became mainstream in AAA games in the 2000s. Funny thing is, it took a Japanese director to open the floodgates to such distinctly western themes.

I am absolutely convinced that MGS2 and GTA3 are the two games that changed mainstream AAA gaming forever. So yeah, if not for gameplay mechanics, MGS has been one of the most influential game series post-2000, for better or worse.

The drab, war-themed settings and gruff action hero main characters were definitely a trend after MGS, but one that Kojima countered when possible. Raiden can easily be considered a reaction to that trend, and also The Boss, who was arguably the real main character of MGS3. Are you sure you're not confusing MGS with Gears of War?

_Karooo · Jul 9, 2018

MGS4 saved the PS3.

Treasure Silvergun · Jul 9, 2018

Dreamboum said:
Nothing about MGS2 is grey

I dunno pal, I just googled some screens from the game and there's a lot of grey, just as I remember.
Please don't reply by cherrypicking the screens taken from the outside areas during daytime, I know those aren't grey but... come on.

gfxtwin said:
The drab, war-themed settings and gruff action hero characters were definitely a trend after MGS, but one that Kojima subverted when possible. Are you sure you're not confusing MGS with Gears of War?

Gears is the most American take on those settings, characters and themes. And of course it was very influential on its own.
MGS2 was a silent revolution. It wasn't a groundbreaking, explosive success like GTA3. But in the years following 2001 you can clearly see that western devs were taking lessons from Kojima. Of course, MGS is still "too Japanese" for the average western audience. The themes, in particular, had to be changed a bit. The stuff about the Patriots isn't something you can play in just any game. A military good-vs-evil story is much easier to sell.

Dr. Caroll · Jul 9, 2018

Treasure Silvergun said:
The themes, in particular, had to be changed a bit. The stuff about the Patriots isn't something you can play in just any game. A military good-vs-evil story is much easier to sell.

Deus Ex came out before Metal Gear Solid 2. It was from a long tradition of PC games that dealt with complex themes, particularly political ones.

Again, this comes back, I think, to the fact most of the console gamers who played Metal Gear Solid 2 and were really impressed by it had never played the likes of Deus Ex. They'd never played Planescape Torment. They'd never played Fallout or Fallout 2. They'd never played I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream. Even Deus Ex: Invisible War was full to the brim with complex political messages. Videogames didn't need Metal Gear Solid 2 for that. Not to say MGS2 didn't have any influence of its own, but Deus Ex is a landmark work of FPS/RPG game design which stands as one of THE cyberpunk works. The work everything else is compared to and fails to measure up to. I'd argue Deus Ex's portrayal of AI and the eventual role of AI is far more insightful than MGS2's, particularly as the world moves towards being controlled by all-seeing AI that passes out judgement and approval. (China's social score system, for instance.)

Bjones · Jul 9, 2018

MGS just took the fundamentals of the 2d metal gear games and transposed them to 3d. The gameplay, crazy story and cutscenes were always there. Playing metal gear on nes was a holy shit moment for me and many others.

Yes there was the other game on the MSX but not in the US and yes there may have been something sort of like before .. but not nearly as popular so let's not go down the whole " hey I know of an obscure game and I'm going to tell everyone " road.

Shauni · Jul 9, 2018

gfxtwin said:
He definitely knows how audiences will react to his work, regardless of how much of the story was planned vs improvised. Dudebros on gaming messageboards were enraged at Raiden for being the actual protagonist of MGS2 but not grizzled and macho like Snake, and were just as angry at Kojima for having the audacity to betray their expectations, completely oblivious to the fact that Raiden would eventually become a more badass character than Snake ever was.

Yeah, but I don't think that really constitutes a troll. But I guess it depends on how you want to define it

How influential was the Metal Gear series to the games industry?

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