Germany's far-right AFD would be second largest party in newest poll

The AFD is probably secretly praising Merkel and this day:
https://news.sky.com/story/germany-no-limit-to-refugees-well-take-in-10347281

It is worrying, sure. But Germany is merely following the international trend of appetite for easy solutions aka nationalism.

Kyougar said:

The SPD is a fucking joke, betrayed their base voters for decades and has no concept of a future for the working class.

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You do realize however that this 'betrayal' of their 'working class' voters recently has been being nice to refugees and advocating for more European integration? Höcke and others are trying to establish the notion of 'Solidarischer Patriotism' aka socialist nationalism (hmmmmm?) and this will further diminish the SPD at the very least in east Germany. I'm sorry, but the problem is the electorate, pure and simple. People do want to be assholes, so they vote in this manner.
We will be witnessing the bad sides of representative democracy in the coming years because stupid bigots have the audacity to impose their intractable will on others while moderates lose appetite for politics as a whole because good politics in 2018 unfortunately means long-winded debates with seemingly miniscule outcome.

Berry Phazon said:

You do realize however that this 'betrayal' of their 'working class' voters recently has been being nice to refugees and advocating for more European integration? Höcke and others are trying to establish the notion of 'Solidarischer Patriotism' aka socialist nationalism (hmmmmm?) and this will further diminish the SPD at the very least in east Germany. I'm sorry, but the problem is the electorate, pure and simple. People do want to be assholes, so they vote in this manner.

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I don't even care what the current popular reasons for the cratering numbers of the SPD are, as long as it's actually finally happening. They are a fucking disgrace and in a just world they should have imploded and disappeared into nothingness a long time ago.

Dangerous times we live in.

This feels like a remix of the 1930s.

Absolutely embarrassing. I've cut ties to anyone remotely sympathizing with their shit.

The AfD profited from the entire CDU/CSU farce that has been dominating the German media in recent weeks. It is not like no one saw this coming. They dominate the discourse regarding refugees and migrants way too often and everyone from the media to other parties play right into their hands every single time. They also allowed to let the AfD frame the current discourse on their terms. This should have never happened and now it is too late to turn it around.

It doesn't help that the social democrats are a shell of their former party and are constantly quarreling with other supposedly center-left or left leaning parties.

So it finally happened.

鬼作. said:

I don't even care what the current popular reasons for the cratering numbers of the SPD are, as long as it's actually finally happening. They are a fucking disgrace and in a just world they should have imploded and disappeared into nothingness a long time ago.

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Uh, ehm, maybe. But is the "alternative" really that much better (far right)?

I mean, this whole situation is a mess isn't it.

鬼作. said:

I don't even care what the current popular reason for the cratering numbers of the SPD are, as long as it's actually finally happening. They are a fucking disgrace and in a just world they should have imploded and disappeared into nothingness a long time ago.

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Care to explain what they did that they deserve this and gifting the AfD the spot of the 'only true opposition' to Germany's center-oriented governments?
If it is Hartz IV, then I think this is a laughable assessment if only because that shit is more than 10 years ago and has proved to deliver more good than bad. Should they've done more corrections in some aspects? Sure! Still not worth plunging Germany into a CDU or Nazis dichotomy in my opinion.

The Greens within 5 of SPD is remarkable.

Fuck's sake.

On the flip side, the pollster INSA is lead by an AfD sympathizer, the next election is in 2021 and Merkel won't stand for reelection again. Clutching pearls over a poll in the middle of electoral no mans land, and just after the spectacular Seehofer implosion, is pretty useless.

鬼作. said:

I don't even care what the current popular reasons for the cratering numbers of the SPD are, as long as it's actually finally happening. They are a fucking disgrace and in a just world they should have imploded and disappeared into nothingness a long time ago.

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what policies, specifically, makes the SPD a fucking disgrace

Berry Phazon said:

Care to explain what they did that they deserve this and gifting the AfD the spot of the 'only true opposition' to Germany's center-oriented governments?
If it is Hartz IV, then I think this is a laughable assessment if only because that shit is more than 10 years ago and has proved to deliver more good than bad. Should they've done more corrections in some aspects? Sure! Still not worth plunging Germany into a CDU or Nazis dichotomy in my opinion.

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the fuck? no it hasn't. Like at all. It completely fucked over poor people, both in Germany and the EU.

I remember the days when pundits still proclaimed that the AfD was just a protest party and their growth was limited, not least because of our german history. We are following the same trend as all the other nations. In the past i only really cared for politics on the national level, but that was wrong. "All politics is local" is a common phrase in the U.S. but it's also true for Germany. That's where we have to fight for the values we treasure.

chadskin said:

On the flip side, the pollster INSA is lead by an AfD sympathizer, the next election is in 2021 and Merkel won't stand for reelection again. Clutching pearls over a poll in the middle of electoral no mans land, and just after the spectacular Seehofer implosion, is pretty useless.

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Yeah if anything this is a healthy political landscape. One party dominating politics for decades isn't healthy. Hell, we're being governed by a 4 party coalition!

Sad that the party of Gauland is second though, what the fuck.

Berry Phazon said:

Care to explain what they did that they deserve this and gifting the AfD the spot of the 'only true opposition' to Germany's center-oriented governments?
If it is Hartz IV, then I think this is a laughable assessment if only because that shit is more than 10 years ago and has proved to deliver more good than bad. Should they've done more corrections in some aspects? Sure! Still not worth plunging Germany into a CDU or Nazis dichotomy in my opinion.

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Agenda 2010 is the biggest crock of shit that came out of Germany since WWII. It made life worse for a rather large part of german citizens, it actively devalued work to a shameful degree. Made the bosses of Zeitarbeitsfirmen into some of the richest motherfuckers in the country. Disgusting.

Sigh, people really learned nothing from history.

The only thing extreme parties need is a heavy fracturing of the vote, which is common in European systems.

Dingens said:

the fuck? no it hasn't. Like at all. It completely fucked over poor people, both in Germany and the EU.

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To be fair, he probably meant for rich people.

Too bad the majority of the people isn't actually rich and appearantly didn't forget this shit and the SPD is paying the price for it it would seem. Was a very clear sign not to vote for them ever if you actually care for "social justice".

SPD is defunct like most of the gauche caviar except of Portuguese PS that drew nearer to the left parties to cling to power.

Dingens said:

the fuck? no it hasn't. Like at all. It completely fucked over poor people, both in Germany and the EU.

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鬼作. said:

Agenda 2010 is the biggest crock of shit that came out of Germany since WWII. It made life worse for a rather large part of german citizens, it actively devalued work to a shameful degree. Made the bosses of Zeitarbeitsfirmen into some of the richest motherfuckers in the country. Disgusting.

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Nope, hard disagree.
The situation after reunification until 2004/5/6 really was worse than now as it was completely unsustainable.
- Mindestlohn (minimum wage) should be incresed: yes
- Zeitarbeitsfirmen and subsidised wages in order to protect """slave""" like labour should be banned politically: also yes

Still, the general idea was good and for many countries in the EU like Italy and Greece today's German welfare state would still be a hefty upgrade so I heavily disagree that Germany bears the main responsibility for their economic situation.

At the veeery least this can absolutely not be an excuse to let Nazis take over, guys. You're reenacting the exact same shit of Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016 that contributed to President Trump. For the love of god, please learn from recent history guys and quit pretending like the social system under chancellor Kohl was nothing but a failed waste of money.

Berry Phazon said:

If it is Hartz IV, then I think this is a laughable assessment if only because that shit is more than 10 years ago and has proved to deliver more good than bad.

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It created a low-wage sector that not only hurt the lower class in Germany but also other European nations.

Berry Phazon said:

For the love of god, please learn from recent history guys and quit pretending like the social system under chancellor Kohl was nothing but a failed waste of money.

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There's no return on invest on helping poor people, but you can't blame those people for not voting anymore when they feel betrayed. The AfD is a neoliberal party and has more in common with the GOP than with the Front National in France.

So who will fight the Nazis in WW3? It seems like everyone is heading towards Nazism.

To be honest, you're talking about a movement of +1% and -2% you'd really need to see a couple of polls showing similar movement to make any real observation.

MOD EDIT: Removed conspiracy-theory video

watch out for germany

Neo C. said:

Sigh, people really learned nothing from history.

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Nope. I will never understand how people can be so ignorant.

Berry Phazon said:

It is worrying, sure. But Germany is merely following the international trend of appetite for easy solutions aka nationalism.


You do realize however that this 'betrayal' of their 'working class' voters recently has been being nice to refugees and advocating for more European integration? Höcke and others are trying to establish the notion of 'Solidarischer Patriotism' aka socialist nationalism (hmmmmm?) and this will further diminish the SPD at the very least in east Germany. I'm sorry, but the problem is the electorate, pure and simple. People do want to be assholes, so they vote in this manner.

We will be witnessing the bad sides of representative democracy in the coming years because stupid bigots have the audacity to impose their intractable will on others while moderates lose appetite for politics as a whole because good politics in 2018 unfortunately means long-winded debates with seemingly miniscule outcome.

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Agree with the bolded, it just seems like a waste to argue with someone that will never change his mind and is basing his arguments on illusions.

Immigration crisis put Merkel (and rest of EU) in the corner.

I just told my polish immigrant parents in law that if they ever again vote for the AfD like they did in the last election, they will only ever see their grandchild with my supervision.

It's mind boggling WHO votes for this fuckers just because of 9/11.

Nationalism rises again. Humans are disgusting, we value tribalism over basic decency.

Berry Phazon said:

Nope, hard disagree.
The situation after reunification until 2004/5/6 really was worse than now as it was completely unsustainable.
- Mindestlohn (minimum wage) should be incresed: yes
- Zeitarbeitsfirmen and subsidised wages in order to protect """slave""" like labour should be banned politically: also yes

Still, the general idea was good and for many countries in the EU like Italy and Greece today's German welfare state would still be a hefty upgrade so I heavily disagree that Germany bears the main responsibility for their economic situation.

At the veeery least this can absolutely not be an excuse to let Nazis take over, guys. You're reenacting the exact same shit of Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016 that contributed to President Trump. For the love of god, please learn from recent history guys and quit pretending like the social system under chancellor Kohl was nothing but a failed waste of money.

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Take your "good general idea" and crawl under a distant rock, never to emerge again. People like you make my blood boil.

鬼作. said:

Take your "good general idea" and crawl under a distant rock, never to emerge again. People like you make my blood boil.

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So, you're basically endorsing Nazis overtaking social democrats because they made an economic decision more than 10 years ago with ambiguous results?
Well, I have less than zero issue to make your blood boil then, maybe that induces some more thought out opinions at least.

I blame the media and the likes of Seehofer which make people believe the only thing that matters in 2018 is a non existing refugee crisis.

Berry Phazon said:

So, you're basically endorsing Nazis overtaking social democrats because they made an economic decision more than 10 years ago with ambiguous results?
Well, I have less than zero issue to make your blood boil then, maybe that induces some more thought out opinions at least.

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I mean, I did ask this too and didn't get an answer, what's the alternative outside of far right, which surely can't be better, it's a dilemma the SPD brought onto themselves with the agenda bullshit, I mean, whatever - I didn't get an answer and if it's far right that would be funny because they'll screw over the poor (read "weak") even more.

The European Parliamentary elections are going to be interesting next year. UKIP's popularity always spiked when the EP elections were happening, I imagine something similar will happen to the AfD.

I blame everyone screaming about 'immigration' and how foreigners will destroy our society because they are foreign and therefore evil.

LINKE is not electable. Just recently witnessed a demo of LINKE youth that shouted high praises for Putin and how the poor Russians are encircled by NATO and how that needs to be abolished.
I don't want to know where the LINKE is getting their funding from, let's say it like this.
LINKE is still more SED party than it is a real left-wing worker class party.

Berry Phazon said:

So, you're basically endorsing Nazis overtaking social democrats because they made an economic decision more than 10 years ago with ambiguous results?
Well, I have less than zero issue to make your blood boil then, maybe that induces some more thought out opinions at least.

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the hell are you even talking about? this isn't black and white america where not voting for party A means voting for party B.
In case you haven't noticed, there are at least 4 other viable parties.

Berry Phazon said:

So, you're basically endorsing Nazis overtaking social democrats because they made an economic decision more than 10 years ago with ambiguous results?
Well, I have less than zero issue to make your blood boil then, maybe that induces some more thought out opinions at least.

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I'm not endorsing anybody. I'll continue to not vote for the AfD after the SPD fucked off into well deserved obscurity. One step at a time though, for now, I'm just happy about the SPD being on fire and hoping they turn into ash sooner rather than later.
And those policies from ten years ago still turn the daily reality of lower class citizens from today into a shitshow and there is no ambiguity about that at all, so wtf kind of talking point is that supposed to be anyway?

I can't stand them but outside of the greens all other parties look like insane shitshows right now.


Lindner is shilling Nazis, business and globalists.
CDU is a shitshow that is fully gonna get exposed when Merkel left.
CSU is shilling bavaria (and failing at it lolol).
SPD is doing whatever the fuck Merkel tells them to.
Left is still the same shitshow it has been for the last 10 years.


All in all if there was a vote tomorrow i would probably vote greens. I'm not fully on board with them but they're the best of the shitshow.

Green Yoshi said:

There's no return on invest on helping poor people, but you can't blame those people for not voting anymore when they feel betrayed.

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Of course there is a return on invest on helping poor people if it is done in a manner such that you enable them to be part of the economy. This return on invest is what is producing the current black zero (which by the way should be substituted by even further investment like education, infrastructure...) and the lack of return on invest is the key property of Italy's/Greece's/Spain's malaise because they both have to spend more on welfare and earn less by income tax.

And besides that: You're literally repeating the economic anxiety model to explain Trump voters and apply this failed theory on people that are willing to give Nazis their vote. I'm extremely not in favour of this way of thinking because you're treating these people like children who are simply not cared enough for by their parents (politicians in this picture). I am not shying away from saying that people who find any, I repeat aaaaany excuse to vote for Nazis instead of maybe even abstain, are deserving of the harshest of blame.

Green Yoshi said:

The AfD is a neoliberal party and has more in common with the GOP than with the Front National in France.

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Exactly, and this only enhancing my point: Obviously these people are just inherently evil, monumentally stupid or most probably both. And in either case I have little sympathy for them ruining democracy for the many.

rumyhy said:

MOD EDIT: Removed conspiracy-theory video

watch out for germany

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Very interersting channel name with some very interesting videos.

The big problem is, with the SPD splitting into the LINKE and the shitshow we have now, the Green Party losing all it's fervor when Merkel actually cemented the exit from nuclear power, there's no moderate left any more. The SPD being Merkels yes-men and women for what feels like an eternity weakened them in a way that is unbelievable. But was foreseeable.

While I agree with Merkels decision to take about a million of refugees in in 2015, I also have to accept that this was the most destabilizing move any leader of a western democracy has done since the Weimar Republic. This decision alone might lead to an implosion of the EU and certainly lead to the rise of the AfD, which is nothing more than an evil incestual amalgamation of the FDP and the NPD.

I don't know how to get out of this shit. I definitely believe that I will have to live under an AfD regime at some point in my life and it will be devastating for the german way of live, the german economy and the weak parts in our society.

It's scary that now, where we have the first two generations that were not via parents and grandparents connected and teached about WW2, we actually repeat the same mistakes.

Fucking Lafontaine will actually enter the history books like he always wanted as the fuckup that splintered the german left and made the rise of the AfD possible. So will Merkel.

Like sure, the AfD can fuck right off, but someone who is waxing on Nazis and inherent evil and being all righteous about stuff while dropping a gem like "Hartz IV was a net positive"....

I can't, I just cant. Someone sure had a huge blind spot in terms of being a piece of shit.

Is this impending sense of doom something like how liberal leaning people in the 1930s felt?

鬼作. said:

Like sure, the AfD can fuck right off, but someone who is waxing on Nazis and inherent evil and being all righteous about stuff while dropping a gem like "Hartz IV was a net positive"....

I can't, I just cant. Someone sure had a huge blind spot in terms of being a piece of shit.

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Don't be such a sad coward and call out my name if you feel so high and mighty about this.

Few things scare me more than hearing "The rise of the far-right in Germany". Far-right. IN GERMANY!

Forget your history and you're cursed to repeat it.