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TMaakkonen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,747
But you start your tiers talking about how much of an icon the characters are. Miis are safely one of the most recognisable characters in the game.

Also, feels like selective reading to say no one cares about them.
This tier was not heavily based on sales, because otherwise Samus would dropped heavily in popularity, and Mega Man would be about as popular as Wii Fit Trainer. Might as well just list characters by franchise sales. Daisy would be S-tier importance.

And it's just personally from seeing people talk about Ultimate, Miis are not that much talked about. Pichu is more talked about than Miis. DAISY is more talked about than Miis. WALUIGI is more talked about than Miis.
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,331
I'm pretty sure Pikachu's duller color is based on its current 3D model in the mainline Pokemon games, which is noticeably duller than before.
Spr_7s_025_m.png


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I also have to say that Ultimate on the whole looks tons better than Wii U did. The lighting especially is a huge improvement, Wii U's lighting was flat as hell, which, combined with its overly simplified textures, made the game look very flat. And issues with Pikachu's color aside there are no characters in Ultimate that look anywhere near as bad as several character models did in Wii U (see Link, Ganondorf, Fox, Lucina, Palutena, etc.).
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
I know a lot of people don't like how DK looks in the new game (at least as far as texture is concerned) but Smash Ultimate DK looks so much better to me. The texture doesn't feel as muddy/"fake" and the muted palette benefits him tremendously; it almost makes him feel like the most accurate 3D transition of DK from Donkey Kong Country.

DHkCf34.gif


I still love the modern DK overall in Tropical Freeze but this one has it's own charms.

Yeah, Donkey Kong looks way better in Ultimate but I didn't realized how much his hairs look like classic DKC hairs at the end. It's pretty interesting to see that now.

Some characters look better and some look worse. DK's facial animations are of course much improved, but I miss his fuzzy fur. The issue with many is that they have been Brawlified and they have faded colors with realistic lighting. Smash 4 had the perfect art style in my mind. Everyone looked consistent even though they originated from vastly different art styles. Pikachu looks the worst in my mind.

WHAT HAPPENED

There's still six months left. Look at how much Odyssey changed from the original January showing to E3.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how I felt about Pikachu since he felt so washed out right now, just same for Mario. I felt that Mario and Pikachu looks so washed out but almost everyone else looks great.

It is amazing how some keep forgetting Smash does not cater to just one audience. Those other threads are painful to read.

Part of the reason for its' commercial success is down to how universally appealing the games are.

The massive selection of iconic characters and stages to choose from. Each crafted with so much depth for competitive play.

Hectic, Mario Kart style multiplayer matches.

I hope Smash stays for a long time to come. <3

That's why I always appreciate how diverse Smash Bros is. It actually caters everyone's taste and people would be happy with whatever they chose to play with.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,258
Rochester, New York
And it's just personally from seeing people talk about Ultimate, Miis are not that much talked about. Pichu is more talked about than Miis. DAISY is more talked about than Miis. WALUIGI is more talked about than Miis.
Because nobody mained Miis because not only did Sakurai reject them online, but the community rejected them for tournaments.

The Smash 4 competitive community's hostility towards Miis was gross and put me off the competitive Smash 4 for awhile. Their reasons were basically nonsense they cooked up because they saw a YouTube video of Brawler having a good combo. And also because Miis are for soccer mom Wii Sports players and not us hardcore Smashers, so we're not going to bother with them.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,143
Limburg
I remember we kept joking Pichu would come back in the earliest version of these threads and now here it is lol

And now everyone is acting like Sakurai didn't blow us all away by doing the unthinkable and bringing EVERYONE back. People acting like Sakurai is gonna add two newcomers and call it a day. This is a new Smash title, not a port. Sakurai is gonna blow past expectations and surprise us again, mark my words. Wet blankets with predictions of no DLC, no new modes, and 4 newcomers are real head scratchers. Have some faith in Sakurai, he wants this game to be beloved and played globally for years, he's gonna give us the good stuff, I can feel it.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
Literally this thread has turned into pure trash. For Smash 4 hype and now Ultimate I always just loved reading discussions, but 90% of the time there's nothing to read but one of the above. It's just depressing to me that all real conversation has stopped since again, I don't actually post much but just love reading posts, especially Smash hype. But these four people have sucked all the hype out've the thread which is something I never thought could happen. ._.

I think lack of new information (Super Smash Blog) isn't really helping with the flow of conversation that much. Only new news we actually got from blog is mostly from the music so that's only good discussion that actually came out of it, along with Krystal (I was surprised with how many people didn't know hat she was confirmed as assist trophy awhile ago.) Also the pessimistic in general with numbers of newcomers made people feel more down on the roster in general and become somewhat insecure about their choice of characters.

Yeah, I think we should trying to work toward to make this thread better for everyone and trying to get rid of the toxicity that we had been dealing with the thread. I'm not going to point at anyone right now because I do think everyone actually contributed the issues toward to it so I don't think it's fair to blame anyone right now. But we can learn from our mistakes and try to make it much better. I have hearing some complaints about how bad this thread is from other people in discord.

1. If you see the baits, please for our dear sakes, do not bite the poor quality baits. I know you want to sound smart but please resists the urge and ignore those people's baits. When they don't get the attention they wanted then they will give up and move on.

2. Encourage more discussions out of characters, stages, etc, rather than outright being dismissive toward to their chances. It wouldn't hurts anyone to consider the potential or so even they are really unlikely. Let talk about how much Style Savvy can bring into the game, ec, etc.

Lets smash those toxicity away and bring the hype back.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,967
Because nobody mained Miis because not only did Sakurai reject them online, but the community rejected them for tournaments.

The Smash 4 competitive community's hostility towards Miis was gross and put me off the competitive Smash 4 for awhile. Their reasons were basically nonsense they cooked up because they saw a YouTube video of Brawler having a good combo. And also because Miis are for soccer mom Wii Sports players and not us hardcore Smashers, so we're not going to bother with them.
That reminds me, we don't know if custom moves are returning so maybe the Mii fighters will be allowed in tournaments this time
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
I'm pretty sure Pikachu's duller color is based on its current 3D model in the mainline Pokemon games, which is noticeably duller than before.
Spr_7s_025_m.png


----

I also have to say that Ultimate on the whole looks tons better than Wii U did. The lighting especially is a huge improvement, Wii U's lighting was flat as hell, which, combined with its overly simplified textures, made the game look very flat. And issues with Pikachu's color aside there are no characters in Ultimate that look anywhere near as bad as several character models did in Wii U (see Link, Ganondorf, Fox, Lucina, Palutena, etc.).
That would be interesting, but really odd because I feel like the coloring on that pikachu model is due to the 3ds system and x/y sun/moon being really dull and washed out in general. Like pikachu is much more vibrant in let's go.

Yeah though, I get people liking the look of smash 4 more but I feel like that game has the contrat blasted to max just for the sake of it. The composition is much better in ultimate already and will probably even improve a bit by the time it comes out.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
I'd not noticed Marth's slight redesign, it's subtle but an improvement. Also looks like hair on a lot of the non-Mario human characters has been upgraded to me too.

Also, Ive probably mention it before, but I'm so happy about Dark Pit having his proper colors.

z7S4YTD.png

I went through all characters last night and I'm thrilled to see some changes Dark Pit got like his face is better now, and the details were much better now.
 

Denryu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
860
Brazil
Because nobody mained Miis because not only did Sakurai reject them online, but the community rejected them for tournaments.

The Smash 4 competitive community's hostility towards Miis was gross and put me off the competitive Smash 4 for awhile. Their reasons were basically nonsense they cooked up because they saw a YouTube video of Brawler having a good combo. And also because Miis are for soccer mom Wii Sports players and not us hardcore Smashers, so we're not going to bother with them.
Yeah there we so much misinformation on the miis being spread around it ended up making things way worse. I hope nothing like that happens in Ultimate, i don't believe there will be any good reason to ever ban the miis if they can be used online.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,258
Rochester, New York
That reminds me, we don't know if custom moves are returning so maybe the Mii fighters will be allowed in tournaments this time
Miis appear to have customs, but nobody else does.

Here's the arguments I've heard against Miis and why they got banned

- It's too hard to adjust sizes to be balanced and consistent. Smaller Miis are always better
Solution: All Miis are based off system Miis and are the same size

- It's too hard to set up all the different combinations and keep them straight for matchups
Solution: All Miis just use one standard moveset, either 1111, or some other agreed on combination

- It's unfair that Miis get to use their customs when other characters don't.
Solution: It's Miis' primary gimmick to be able to use custom moves in all modes of play with no restrictions. Should we ban Bowser because of his "Tough Guy" armor, or Rosalina because of Luma?

- Miis are just create-a-character for Smash and CaCs are never allowed in tournaments
Solution: Miis are a Nintendo character and were included in Smash because they are important Nintendo characters. The customization was implemented because that's what Miis do. Not the other way around.

- Miis aren't allowed online, so Nintendo doesn't want us to use them
Solution: Tournaments do a bunch of stuff Nintendo doesn't do, like limit stages to a half dozen and play on Stock. Also Miis aren't allowed online because of bullying concerns, it has nothing to do with Miis gameplay.

It was a VERY frustrating time. People would come up with one excuse, it'd have an obvious solution or hole in the argument, and they'd move onto to some new argument until enough major players and TOs got caught up in the nonsense and banned them.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
15,368
- It's unfair that Miis get to use their customs when other characters don't.
Solution: It's Miis' primary gimmick to be able to use custom moves in all modes of play with no restrictions. Should we ban Bowser because of his "Tough Guy" armor, or Rosalina because of Luma?
Miis and Palutena not being allowed customs killed the characters. It's their gimmick but people really never even considered letting them have theirs because "top players opinions".
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,331
If Miis have basic variants preloaded in the game instead of forcing every game to have basic Miis created for each set up I think they'd be allowed, otherwise they'll continue to be treated like the create-a-characters they are.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,258
Rochester, New York
So looking at Ultimate's Miis there's some things that makes it pretty obvious Nintendo wants them in tournaments

1. They're allowed online now
2. It doesn't seem like height matters anymore. All Miis shown so far have been the same height/weight
3. No other characters, except Miis have customs, cementing that it's their primary gimmick and should be respected

I also wouldn't be surprised if you can literally just pick a Mii's moves from the CSS this time around. Like, just select a head, and pick between 1/2/3 for each move and be off to battle.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Because nobody mained Miis because not only did Sakurai reject them online, but the community rejected them for tournaments.

The Smash 4 competitive community's hostility towards Miis was gross and put me off the competitive Smash 4 for awhile. Their reasons were basically nonsense they cooked up because they saw a YouTube video of Brawler having a good combo. And also because Miis are for soccer mom Wii Sports players and not us hardcore Smashers, so we're not going to bother with them.
Competitive Smash's community always overreacts to strong characters. Remember all of the squealing to ban Bayonetta from tournaments last year after Zero lost to a Bayo player at Evo?
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,258
Rochester, New York
If Miis have basic variants preloaded in the game instead of forcing every game to have basic Miis created for each set up I think they'd be allowed, otherwise they'll continue to be treated like the create-a-characters they are.
Nah, someone important will watch a For Glory youtube video of Brawler's up special and they'd get banned.

People are just looking for any excuse to ban them because they're boring looking and remind them of the Wii days when Nintendo made games for your grandma.
 

woopWOOP

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,654
The E3 trailer said they were working on getting Mii Fighter available for online, right?
I'm expecting there will be a standard medium sized, basic specials type-1 moveset Mii that's selectable for this. Maybe with standard face and outfit too, allowing only colour swaps.

I'd be happy because the Mii Brawler and Gunner have pretty fun movesets, honestly. Also it'd be funny seeing Smash Bros fanart of those three standard mii fighters the moment they're allowed online.

miifighters.jpg
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,331
Nah, someone important will watch a For Glory youtube video of Brawler's up special and they'd get banned.

People are just looking for any excuse to ban them because they're boring looking and remind them of the Wii days when Nintendo made games for your grandma.
I think you're kind of overreacting, I think the primary reason no one made the effort to keep them in competitive was because they required extra effort to set up. The competitive community treated them like create a characters (which are flat banned in basically any competitive fighter) because that's how the game treats them, there's no basic Mii in the base game. They have to be hand created.

I one-hundred percent expect that if there are basic Miis preloaded in the base game they'll be allowed in competitive.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,967
Nah, someone important will watch a For Glory youtube video of Brawler's up special and they'd get banned.

People are just looking for any excuse to ban them because they're boring looking and remind them of the Wii days when Nintendo made games for your grandma.
The FGC in general just looks for reasons to ban characters, when a character is console exclusive it automatically gets ban in all tournaments.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
The E3 trailer said they were working on getting Mii Fighter available for online, right?
I'm expecting there will be a standard medium sized, basic specials type-1 moveset Mii that's selectable for this. Maybe with standard face and outfit too, allowing only colour swaps.

I'd be happy because the Mii Brawler and Gunner have pretty fun movesets, honestly. Also it'd be funny seeing Smash Bros fanart of those three standard mii fighters the moment they're allowed online.

miifighters.jpg

I can't emphasize how much I'm so excited about Mii's new looks. They looks even more sharper and sleek now which is tenfold better than Smash 4's Mii. I really hope that they would bring Geno costume back so I can still rocking Geno Mii Gunner. (Of course, I would take Geno as an unique character over mii costume if I have a choice.) Same for Takamaru costume too.
 

alexi52

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,967
If we were to get a second square character then Terra, Chrono, Sora, or someone from DQ should all be chosen before Geno
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Heihachi is kind of a boring choice, but he's also a super obvious one. Geno is the right choice in my heart, but it feels like there should be a Dragon Quest character there. I'd be totally 100% on board with this though. It's a dream roster.

I've seen KOS-MOS floated around as a Namco rep but I still think Heihachi will be in, and hopefully as his old man self. Apparently Harada doesn't want it though.

I hope Klonoa makes an appearance as an AT.

As for Geno, I think he's the most likely second Square rep. Nobody at the company except for Sora has Cloud's popularity and he's not getting in. Dragon Quest is massively popular, but would involve the same legal tape that Cloud had to jump through to get him? Geno meanwhile has a cult fanbase, Sakurai's own desire to get him in, and potentially a lot less hassle to include over a more popular IP.

Really good chance of making it into the base roster

Nintendo can't handle the Riskbreaker's assless chaps.
 

Demon Eyes

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,572
Bowser is A+ or maybe even S-tier easy. I'm just not 100% sure if villains are on same pedestal as protagonists. Although it seems some people think A+-tier should be combined with S-tier.

But no one really cares about Mii Fighters as characters. They are kinda just here. They weren't that big deal after launch & in Smash Ultimate they still aren't talked about that much. Of course, they make sense and are definitely worthy, but I haven't seen a lot of Mii Fighters love.
I'd say only some villains would qualify. Like Ganondorf wouldn't qualify to be up there but Bowser has a better case for it
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,185
Really good chance of making it into the base roster

I'm really curious about Ashley's chances since few people in another channel said that some people really overrated Ashley's popularity so it does make me wonder if we are overestimating her chance now. What measure stick are we using for Ashley's popularity, considering WarioWare's sales aren't that high.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
I don't see how anyone can say Ultimate isn't a competitive game after watching that MKLeo vs Zero Finale Match.

I guess alot of people are still attached to broken glitches.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,257
I just remembered that I had a dream last week I forgot to mention.
Where the next newcomer was revealed and it was flippin' POLITOAD
tumblr_oie5v4Hv1s1tai552o1_400.gif

Dream me was not pleased and was like "why would Sakurai pick another water type amphibian, WHHHY?"
It was not the right Toad, I wanted Captain!
Hey, Politoed is my favorite Pokemon. Now I really want this. Your dream must become real.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
If we were to get a second square character then Terra, Chrono, Sora, or someone from DQ should all be chosen before Geno
Some of you undersell Geno too much.

Terra and Chrono aren't requested as much as Geno, a character acknowledged by Sakurai. Their popularity/relevance too isn't much different from Geno's, that is even more popular with Smash/Nintendo fans.

He's not a lock, but just getting a Mii costume and the game appealing to fans makes him have better chances this time.
 
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