Loot Boxes Deemed As “Predatory Monetization” (University of Adelaide editorial)

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

The researchers behind the study lambasted such practices as predatory and far too similar to gambling. This could affect the result of Australia's current investigation into loot boxes and how they should be treated.

Though the study focused its criticism mainly on microtransactions, the researchers pointed out that loot boxes posed a significant financial risk for players who are vulnerable to the addictive properties of the product. They just keep on buying and opening loot boxes in the hopes of getting a high-value product worth their purchase.

In a statement, Dr. Daniel King, Senior Research Associate in the University of Adelaide's School of Psychology, said

"These schemes may entice some players to spend more money than they may have intended or can afford, especially when using credit cards or virtual currency that makes it hard to keep track of spending"

Loot boxes are random in nature. This means that buyers don't know what they will get when they open the box. It could be something common or extremely rare. The problem is that some products are unique to loot boxes and obsessive players keep on buying loot boxes until they get what they want. The result is something similar to the scratch cards that people buy at lottery shops, where they keep on buying them in the hopes of eventually winning

The sale of loot boxes is also combined with what researchers call 'predatory monetization'. Depending on a player's spending habits, in-game items may suddenly find their prices changing to further encourage the purchase of loot boxes. Pressure tactics like limited-time sales have also been used to convince players to buy even more loot boxes.

The trouble is that all of these contribute to a loop of purchases that entrap the buyer. They keep buying since they feel that they have already spent a lot of money on their goal, they just have to move forward even with the additional financial costs.

According to Professor Paul Delfabbr, the loot box market is operating without restrictions and regulations. With many young players participating in these loot box games, they are especially vulnerable to such schemes as they don't have the self-control required to say no to such predatory practices. This study may tip Australian lawmakers to follow in the footsteps of the Netherlands which banned loot boxes.

The study is linked in the article but can also be found here

This is the abstract for the study:

Predatory monetization schemes (e.g., 'loot boxes') in video games are purchasing systems that disguise or withhold the long-term cost of the activity until players are already financially and psychologically committed. Such schemes contribute to the increasing similarity of gaming and gambling and the potential for financial harm for those with Internet gaming disorder.

I don't think this kind of thing is surprising at all, and I expect to see more research come to the same conclusion as time goes on

I know the "think of the children" defense gets mocked a lot by people who are fond of lootboxes, but by design there are aspects of lootboxes that should be looked at

What do we think, Era?

AgeOfZelda · Jul 9, 2018

Good, and the sooner the rest of the world catches up the better.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

Rune Corp said:
Good, and the sooner the rest of the world catches up the better.

I think they will eventually, or regulation will come in.

I can't see this just going away

henlo_birb · Jul 9, 2018

"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

Maximo · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

Please present your findings.

Deleted member 36578 · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

I feel they definitely are. That itch to pull again and again until you get the thing ya want is a very powerful tool these companies tap into in certain peoples psyches.

diablogg · Jul 9, 2018

Seems like the rest of the world is finally waking up and realizing what this shit actually is.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

You really showed those academics with that scathing 3 word rebuttable, I bet they feel really foolish now

I wouldn't worry though, lootboxes arn't going away anytime soon

Namyu · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

Then your eyes are closed.

Deleted member 29464 · Jul 9, 2018

Something something something no real-world value.

Comic Obsessed · Jul 9, 2018

Good.

henlo_birb · Jul 9, 2018

Maximo said:
Please present your findings.

Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

ASaiyan · Jul 9, 2018

Good job, University of Adelaide. Please inform the Government of Adelaide.

Or, you know, the Australian Parliament proper, since I doubt a city council has the authority to ban lootboxes, lol.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

I think it's also important to consider games that use seasonal or temporary/limited time only items in lootboxes

Even if they're only cosmetic, if the game tells you that you only have 31 days to get these rare items and the drop rate is a few % then that obviously triggers desperation in the kind of players who want everything or even just a few of the limited time items

This massively increases the pressure on them to spend on extra lootboxes to try and get that lucky win

They are 100% predatory and we will see more research coming to the same conclusion as times goes on

Derrick01 · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

Really lol. The entire point behind them is to prey on people who can't control themselves.

Death Penalty · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

You have stock in EA or something?

Why do people defend a pricing structure so hard?

Kitsunelaine · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

So no form of gambling can be predatory then?

LordFish · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

So.... Your just an asshole. Cool.

apocat · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
"Predatory"

Not seeing it.

Look closer then, because it's fairly obvious to both me and the companies implementing the mechanism in the first place.

DarkJ · Jul 9, 2018

These companies hire psychiatrists to help make these lootbox/microtransactions systems. You don't need a psychiatrist to make a video game unless you are mentally manipulating someone.

subpar spatula · Jul 9, 2018

Yeah, it's predatory but almost all things being sold are to a degree. Making policy around those with addictive personalities or poor impulse isn't going to change much. You may as well ban RNG loot games.

Deleted member 36578 · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

So you feel if they open their wallets it's on them no matter what? Regardless of how the loot box is presented, if a person pays for it without someone physically forcing their hand will you ever believe that there are mental gymnastics people go through when purchasing such items?

legend166 · Jul 9, 2018

At the very least I don't understand how it doesn't immediately make games R18+.

I wonder how EA would react if FIFA had an R18+ logo slapped on it.

Pimienta · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

I didn't know gambling requiered someone to force you to play.

henlo_birb · Jul 9, 2018

Death Penalty said:
You have stock in EA or something?

Why do people defend a pricing structure so hard?

I'm bearish on EA. Additionally I don't play any games with lootboxes because I don't personally like the idea of them. I was just sharing that I don't feel "predatory" is the most appropriate term.

Mr_Blue_Sky · Jul 9, 2018

subpar spatula said:
Yeah, it's predatory but almost all things being sold are to a degree. Making policy around those with addictive personalities or poor impulse isn't going to change much. You may as well ban RNG loot games.

How many RNG loot games are you playing where you have to pay $5 for every loot drop? Can't you see how lootboxes are on a completely different level than just RNG based game mechanics?

mael · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

Great you just proved that no gambling is ever predatory, so you gonna campaign to abolist all these pesky anti gambling laws?

Alienous · Jul 9, 2018

Yep, it works on the same logic.

"I need to win to justify what I've already spent. Shit. I need to win to justify what I've already spend. Dammit ...."

Vic Damone Jr. · Jul 9, 2018

Australia about to get crossed off for any future games with lootboxes.

platocplx · Jul 9, 2018

yep. Especially the virtual currency issue. it obfuscates how much you are actually spending on items. The items should have real dollar values on the items. that also is a MAJOR issue.

Also odds of getting items should not be a secret either that is another big issue with these. even trading cards display all odds of getting item.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

subpar spatula said:
Yeah, it's predatory but almost all things being sold are to a degree. Making policy around those with addictive personalities or poor impulse isn't going to change much. You may as well ban RNG loot games.

I don't think that's true, and even if it is, we have regulation and laws on gambling because it can be harmful to people and it would be irresponsible to let children gamble

Even if we assume all things being sold are predatory (which again, I disagree with) some things are much worse than others. Coffee isn't as bad for you as cigarettes are, though both are addictive. However because they're not the same they have differing levels of regulation attached to them

bbq of doom · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

Acting via inducement is arguably acting (i) without volition, and (ii) under a false pretense.

subpar spatula · Jul 9, 2018

Mr_Blue_Sky said:
How many RNG loot games are you playing where you have to pay $5 for every loot drop? Can't you see how lootboxes are on a completely different level than just RNG based game mechanics?

I'd say if we're going to base our policies on how addictive something is and the predatory nature of keeping them in the game then it's only logical to look at the psychological hooks put into games that keep bringing players back.

We could even speak about the monetary angle: how much is required for there to be legislation put forth? Yeah, someone can spend $200 and not get their skin or item they want, but there's a point in where the grand majority actually stop spending money on loot boxes. Someone at a slots machine or black jack table is going to throw a mortgage away.

PogiJones · Jul 9, 2018

OP, if you put quotes in the title, it should be an actual quote. Unless I'm missing something somewhere, they don't call it "predatory gambling," which is a good thing, because calling it gambling is easily rebuttable by pulling up the current definition of gambling in most places. Instead, they sensibly call it "predatory monetization" and say it's "far too similar to gambling," which still has the condemnation, but is not easily dismissed on a technicality.

EDIT: I see now you just took the title from the article. Still, a quote should be an actual quote from the study.

platocplx · Jul 9, 2018

oni-link said:
I don't think that's true, and even if it is, we have regulation and laws on gambling because it can be harmful to people and it would be irresponsible to let children gamble

Even if we assume all things being sold are predatory (which again, I disagree with) some things are much worse than others. Coffee isn't as bad for you as cigarettes are, though both are addictive. However because they're not the same they have differing levels of regulation attached to them

right, and they literally call these people whales etc. they know they are pretty much trying to circumvent gambling. making it blurry when it comes to the the dollar amount per item, or box in-game and assign virtual currencies etc, then having ridiculous odds then using the same features of how casinos work for gambling with sounds and lights when boxes open etc its pretty much gambling.

rusty chrome · Jul 9, 2018

Agreed. I've seen so many sad people trying to get lucky, wasting away a bunch of money on loot boxes for one costume they never even got. These developers know how addicted some gamers are, and they take advantage.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

PogiJones said:
OP, if you put quotes in the title, it should be an actual quote. Unless I'm missing something somewhere, they don't call it "predatory gambling," which is a good thing, because calling it gambling is easily rebuttable by pulling up the current definition of gambling in most places. Instead, they sensibly call it "predatory monetization" and say it's "far too similar to gambling," which still has the condemnation, but is not easily dismissed on a technicality.

1) I copied the article title

2)

The sale of loot boxes is also combined with what researchers call 'predatory monetization'

It's in the top of the 3rd quote box

PogiJones · Jul 9, 2018

oni-link said:
1) I copied the article title

Yeah, I just saw that and edited my previous post.

oni-link said:
2)

It's in the top of the 3rd quote box

Right, as I said, they call it "predatory monetization," not "predatory gambling." That's exactly what I wrote in my post.

Boiled Goose · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

So then nothing can be a predatory practice by definition. Choice is not what determines predatory or not.

1upsuper · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

What are your thoughts on substance addiction and gambling?

CrazyHal · Jul 9, 2018

Halfling said:
Something something something no real-world value.

Something something it's just like trading card games.

The Appetizer · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

What sort of practice could you possibly consider predatory then? This criterion rules out any form of gambling, payday loans, pyramid schemes, and everything else I can think of.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

PogiJones said:
Yeah, I just saw that and edited my previous post.

Right, as I said, they call it "predatory monetization," not "predatory gambling." That's exactly what I wrote in my post.

Ah I see, well the study is there for all to read, and the writer of the article summed it up as per the title. The information is all there so anyone is free to read it and disagree with if it they like

I mean, they say in the other parts I quoted that they compare lootboxes to scratch cards.

France decided lootboxes were not gambling, but even they expressed concerns that they are similar to gambling in functionality and you could do some sketchy stuff under the current lack of regulation

I think a lot of the real issues are ignored by focusing on the "are they technically gambling" debate

Regardless of the answer to that question, they are still predatory and they are still designed to extract the most amount of money possible from players. Whether they are gambling or not really only matters in the context of do we need new regulations for lootboxes or can they be incorporated into current gambling regulations

Edit: Ah, looks like a mod updated the title anyway

XSX · Jul 9, 2018

Lootboxes don't need to go away, they just need a bit of a change.

Show the odds, cosmetic only, ways of earning "free" lootboxes through playtime, etc.

ItIsOkBro · Jul 9, 2018

I looked at what was in a casino. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

subpar spatula · Jul 9, 2018

oni-link said:
I don't think that's true, and even if it is, we have regulation and laws on gambling because it can be harmful to people and it would be irresponsible to let children gamble

Even if we assume all things being sold are predatory (which again, I disagree with) some things are much worse than others. Coffee isn't as bad for you as cigarettes are, though both are addictive. However because they're not the same they have differing levels of regulation attached to them

Plenty of things are predatory and designed to please certain parts of the brain. You know why in Diablo 3 a big giant flashy animation occurs when you level up? Because players like that. Wonder why you receive a reward for every CoD level? Players love seeing that and it becomes a feedback booster loop designed to make you believe you are getting better. These games suck many, many hours from people lives. People have even died during these long endurance gaming sessions.

We have regulation on gambling because problem gambling manifests itself into usually 3 consequences: personal, financial, or legal. A person with poor impulse control or anxiety or an addictive personality (if left unchecked) will happen down this path regardless of vice. It's a totally misunderstanding of the addiction to think putting an age limit is going to make wide spread changes to these certain personalities 'cause the moment they first step in a casino, put down $5 for that free black jack game after signing up for some free stupid diamond rewards card they're hooked. It's just marking time unless they find another vice in the meantime.

You only solve this problem with better health care overall especially mental health.

Mr_Blue_Sky · Jul 9, 2018

subpar spatula said:
I'd say if we're going to base our policies on how addictive something is and the predatory nature of keeping them in the game then it's only logical to look at the psychological hooks put into games that keep bringing players back.

We could even speak about the monetary angle: how much is required for there to be legislation put forth? Yeah, someone can spend $200 and not get their skin or item they want, but there's a point in where the grand majority actually stop spending money on loot boxes. Someone at a slots machine or black jack table is going to throw a mortgage away.

This is the problem right here, you seem to be entirely dismissive about the actual addictive and predatory nature of how these lootboxes actually function. People literally blow through thousands of dollars doing this, there's a story about this like every other week in regards to stuff like Fifa Ultimate Team. The idea that we shouldn't care because not enough people have been taken advantage of by the systems that were literally designed to be predatory and addictive and take as much money from you as possible over the longest period of time, or that "all things are predatory to a degree" is pretty outrageous.

And again, I understand that a game like Diablo might function on much the same properties, or psychological hooks, that lootboxes might run on but theres a huge difference in function, namely that Diablo doesn't cost me $5 every time I get a weapon drop. RNG based game mechanics aren't inherently evil, but lootboxes system are designed literally with the help of psychiatrists to make them as addictive as possible without pissing off people enough to stop them from spending cash.

Stiler · Jul 9, 2018

henlo_birb said:
Sure:

I looked at what was in the OP. I then remained unconvinced that people spending money on their own volition could be considered predatory.

So you don't understand how gambling is predatory at all then? Because according to your statement all gambling is non-predatory...no one forces them to gamble.

The mechanics behind things, like slots, etc are built in such a way to entice people to spend money, just the same as lootboxes are built and designed, it's not hard to see why they are predatory.They prey on people's minds (physically) the way they are designed, it affects your brain to release dopamine which in some people leads to addiction.

subpar spatula · Jul 9, 2018

Mr_Blue_Sky said:
This is the problem right here, you seem to be entirely dismissive about the actual addictive and predatory nature of how these lootboxes actually function. People literally blow through thousands of dollars doing this, there's a story about this like every other week in regards to stuff like Fifa Ultimate Team. The idea that we shouldn't care because not enough people have been taken advantage of by the systems that were literally designed to be predatory and addictive and take as much money from you as possible over the longest period of time, or that "all things are predatory to a degree" is pretty outrageous.

And again, I understand that a game like Diablo might function on much the same properties, or psychological hooks, that lootboxes might run on but theres a huge difference in function, namely that Diablo doesn't cost me $5 every time I get a weapon drop. RNG based game mechanics aren't inherently evil, but lootboxes system are designed literally with the help of psychiatrists to make them as addictive as possible without pissing off people enough to stop them from spending cash.

You're underestimating what these players are going through and how widespread it is. Addiction manifests itself differently: one person could play World of Warcraft for 3 days straight and die and another could spend $10k on loot boxes. The problem isn't the vice. It's a band-aid that quickly is torn off when that personality attaches to something else.

Like, let's say Australia or even the world makes these 19+ all over. Do we just pat ourselves on the back and call it a day? The actual root cause is still there and whatever they did in loot boxes (if it's transferable to cash gambling) is going to cause way more damage.

oni-link · Jul 9, 2018

I added the abstract from the study to the OP

Predatory monetization schemes (e.g., 'loot boxes') in video games are purchasing systems that disguise or withhold the long-term cost of the activity until players are already financially and psychologically committed. Such schemes contribute to the increasing similarity of gaming and gambling and the potential for financial harm for those with Internet gaming disorder.

This also serves to show how they are predatory in a pretty concise manner

Loot Boxes Deemed As “Predatory Monetization” (University of Adelaide editorial)

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