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Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Why can't this episode just play on air without any edits? Why must it be banned? He is clearly dressing up as an animal? How could anyone mistake it for anything else and be offended? This is amazingly overblown.

What happened with Jynx?
They didn't want to risk it and pulled the episode. It's not that serious or that important. It's Pokémon so there was a sure chance that episode was utterly pointless. Nothing of value is lost from pulling the episode compared to the risk of airing it.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,545
We should talk about the term "banned" because from what I can see the licensee just decided not to show it on TV?
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
i'm surprised they went with banning as opposed to digital recolouring in t his case. The blackface is so uniform it should theoretically be easy to fix.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
Why can't this episode just play on air without any edits? Why must it be banned? He is clearly dressing up as an animal? How could anyone mistake it for anything else and be offended? This is amazingly overblown.

What happened with Jynx?

It's obvious there is no "racist" or insensitive intent. But painting your skin dark and comparing black people to primates/apes has been done for a long time to present them as lesser people. Nobody thinks, or is claiming the creators believe this or intend to showcase this. It's still insensitive to make someone look like a dark skinned animal, at least in the US. Good move not to air it.
 

pikablu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,323
His entire face isnt black and hes standing next to the pokemon. If they are going to ban the episode then they might as well change the black on the pokemons face to purple like they did with jynx.
 
Nov 30, 2017
809
Its not blackfacing if you dress up like an animal. (Or am I wrong here?!)

That's where I'm at with it. Blackface requires 2 elements:
1) blackening your face and any other various body parts
2) acting out offensive stereotypes of black people in earnest.

I say in earnest because RDJ caught zero heat for blackface specifically because there were actual black characters to call his character out on it.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,297
I mean I don't think it would have been too bad. Normally I would think this would be a bit extreme as it's based on the look of the pokemon

But it's definitely is a bit more tone deaf as they look like monkey pokemon which can be taken as another jab at a well known racist imagery.

Good on the localization team.
 

Sol_Bad

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
50
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying the history and impact of racist caricatures, account still in the junior phase.
It's obvious there is no "racist" or insensitive intent. But painting your skin dark and comparing black people to primates/apes has been done for a long time to present them as lesser people. Nobody thinks, or is claiming the creators believe this or intend to showcase this. It's still insensitive to make someone look like a dark skinned animal, at least in the US. Good move not to air it.

I understand that has been an issue way in the past but can't we as a human race move beyond that? Watching that scene on Youtube, Ash doesn't even act like a monkey. People are way too sensitive, at least in the US.
 

4444244

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
123
We should talk about the term "banned" because from what I can see the licensee just decided not to show it on TV?

- Production company barred from showing it at all.
- Production company voluntarily doesn't show it because it thinks that half a dozen twats will sound off on twitter.

These are both sides of the same coin.

Why does the definition need to be discussed, when the outcome is the same?
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
I can see why they would keep this away and if it's a filler then there's no need to spend money editing it. That being said this is not blackface as the intention is to mimic a pokemon. Best to avoid any possible connotations though.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
I understand that has been an issue way in the past but can't we as a human race move beyond that? Watching that scene on Youtube, Ash doesn't even act like a monkey. People are way too sensitive, at least in the US.

Moving "beyond" is recognizing the danger in normalizing the behavior, or recognizing the harm its done and deciding consciously not to do it. I don't know why "moving beyond" just means doing it again. I can only speak from my perspective as an American.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
How is it "banned"? Which organization banned the episode? The government doesn't ban TV shows in the US. If the distributor chose not to bring the episode to the US, that doesn't mean it has been banned. Saying something is "banned" like that is usually an extreme exaggeration and click-bait.

In any case, it would be a pretty simple fix to just go back and change the face - it can't be that many frames, I doubt it would take even a day for one artist to change the face color. In Dragonball Z Kai, they changed a character who had *obvious* blackface, far more than this, to blue for the US release.
 
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Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,545
- Production company barred from showing it at all.
- Production company voluntarily doesn't show it because it thinks that half a dozen twats will sound off on twitter.

These are both sides of the same coin.

Why does the definition need to be discussed, when the outcome is the same?

Because...that's not what "banned" means and words matter? Like, there are countless shows and animes where the western rights holders haven't released a DVD or Blu-ray and there's no way to legally buy or watch these shows in the west. Does that mean that these shows are "banned"? No, obviously not. A ban means that some authoritarian institution decided to, well, ban people from watching it. That's just not what happened here.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,346
Omni
Had no idea what he dressed up until I google searched, hasn't been a year since I played Pokémon ultra sun and I already forgot this Pokémon lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,960
Osaka, Osaka
At least the there's some skin still showing. I think if they just edited the face, it'd be fine, and there'd be no ambiguity about it.

It's not Jinx or Oil Man, or those things from Loco Roco.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,274
An episode where ash dons black face paint to look closer to a pokemon who looks like a monkey? Oof
 

StraySheep

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,286
I feel like the ample space around the eyes combined with the fact that it's a freaking Pokemon would make this ok, but whatever.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,408
I watch the Japanese version and liked this episode quite a lot. I'm wondering if we will get this episode in the Netherlands. Doubt anyone will care there.
 

4444244

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
123
Because...that's not what "banned" means and words matter? Like, there are countless shows and animes where the western rights holders haven't released a DVD or Blu-ray and there's no way to legally buy or watch these shows in the west. Does that mean that these shows are "banned"? No, obviously not. A ban means that some authoritarian institution decided to, well, ban people from watching it. That's just not what happened here.

If there is a considered opinion to not release content, then it doesn't matter whether that is because of a Governmental Agency, or the persons in the production company after they have had criticism or because they assume they would have criticism.

Your example of a company holding various rights but decides not to relase show A or B but release C instead would only make sense (in the context you've used), if there was a conscious decision not to release it based upon content that (however spurious) would be objected to, rather than them not getting round to release a series, although if they purchased the rights only to sit on the content and not make it available, then this would also be as objectionable as it being banned by the Government.

I am aware of the definition of the word, but the fact that pressure can be applied to stop the release of content due to parties other than governmental agencies makes the argument 'well everything's cool, content has not been made available, but this is not due to a 'ban' from the government, so that makes it ok' academic.

Also, perhaps I needent mention this, but what the heck, it's not like a words literal definition can't be stretched over the years.
 

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
So, like, I fully support what they did with Jynx---I'm a firm believer that even if Game Freak didn't intend for it to be a stereotype, and it's ganguro/snow witch, it was definitely an issue that needed to be addressed.

But I can't get behind this and say I feel it necessary. But I guess it's just covering their bases and not actually a response to anyone complaining, so it's not censorship or anything crazy like that.

I actually really enjoyed this episode though, it's cute. It also has a cool Gundam reference.

I forgot which, but there was another episode of Sun and Moon that I recall wondering if it'd be cut, but I forgot which one it was and for what reason I thought that...
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
Calling someone dressing up as a monkey blackface seems racist as fuck. Like dressing up as a black person and dressing up as an ape are the same thing.
 

Woolley

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,420
I understand that has been an issue way in the past but can't we as a human race move beyond that? Watching that scene on Youtube, Ash doesn't even act like a monkey. People are way too sensitive, at least in the US.
No its not way in the past. Black face and treating black people like shit is still an issue today.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,176
Toronto
Complaining that this isn't the definition of "banned" is worthless without an actual term for these cases. For now, banned is a simple and widely understood word to fit the scenario -- that's why it is used so much, language is defined by the speakers. Literally nobody thinks the government banned the episode just because the word "ban" was used so it's not worth complaining about "ban" giving an impression it never did.
 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,984
I don't really see it, but I guess I can understand the caution.

Though editing his face back to the original color would probably solve the issue too.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,644
4f870206-658d-420e-a2be-32a04eeb6f9a.gif

Damn right in the feels, I remember this episode really getting to me.
This still gets me.


In regards to the ban I can understand it but they should have just left Ash's face like normal since his hands aren't colored.
 
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Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
Better to be safe than sorry. I don't take much offense to this but I can see why they did it.

Besides, it's Pokémon. The episode more than likely contributed to nothing so it's an easy decision to skip.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
If it's banned from being aired on TV it's banned. Nobody cares if you can still watch it elsewhere, what people are concerned with is airing it on TV.

Tauros episode with guns episode was labelled banned too.
 

uncelestial

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,060
San Francisco, CA, USA
Well, I'd rather companies err on the side of caution with these matters, but given that there is absolutely zero connection to race here I think it's a bit of a stretch.

Like, is this blackface? Or is this just a person dressed up like a monster, as Ash is?



Not that it's up to me to decide but I must confess I don't really get it.
 
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Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,036
While I get why they won't air the episode, in this particular situation I think it's actually more racist to think that that episode might be racist, than the episode itself which in fact isn't racist at all (I saw it subbed, it's actually pretty good and kinda emotional).

But again, given the current climate, good on them for at least being sensitive to the subject.
 
Apr 16, 2018
1,760
It's obvious they pulled it because of the historical context of black folks being compared to monkeys in addition to Ash dressing up as a monkey with dark make up. It's not a good look all put together like that.

Team made the right choice tbh. Pokemon has been the subject of outrage since its inception