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Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
I'm sure you're aware of this America but coming from a brit who knows we fucked up with Brexit you really fucked up with cheeto man.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
He has a small point but sure I've read before Germany only imports about 25% from Russia. The rest is from elsewhere.
 

liquidtmd

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,134
I'm sure you're aware of this America but coming from a brit who knows we fucked up with Brexit you really fucked up with cheeto man.

And both Brexit and Trump were effectively won by the premise of 'the EU / Hillary are the old establishment, have they managed to solve the world's problems? NO!'

Take back control and drain the swamp are messages so fundamentally similar in playing to a nations desperation and patriotism, that its kind of hard to doubt they weren't a co-ordinated drive to destabilise global order.
 

hEist

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,054
It's not, that we are not investing more and more in renewable energy sources...
 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
Ah, ok. Thanks. I'm only proficient at 2 second-googling, as it turns out.

But I still don't think that pumping more money into NATO and military is solving the problem. We should've invested into nuclear energy instead but Merkel wanted to cash in (politically) on Fukushima... (for which I am still pissed at her).
Trump doesn't ask Germany to pump money into NATO, but your own military. Throwing money at it would certainly stop it from falling apart:
Troops lack tents, bulletproof vests, and winter clothes. Up to three-quarters of tanks are not battle-ready, and earlier this year it emerged that five of the German Navy's six submarines are likewise not deployable. Shortly after taking over as head of the German Air Force this spring, Lt. Gen. Ingo Gerhartz reported that many helicopters and fighter jets can't be used because of missing spare parts. A lack of parts also means that fighter jet maintenance takes 14 months instead of the standard seven.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/07/09/spare-a-thought-for-the-bundeswehr-germany-generals/

I agree with your second point. Either go full renewable or stay in nuclear for the time being instead of making up for the shortfall from abandoning nuclear with Russian gas and coal.

so? I love it when someone only posts something without commenting on it. Your post doesn't alter my argument.
It's not like you actually fleshed out your argument: 'It's not about the amount, but about the control.'
Was your argument indeed that 'America controls Iraqi oil'? Prove it then.
Here is my proof to counter your argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_industry_in_Iraq#Service_contracts_licensing_results
Let me know if you need help with parsing this table.
 

IHaveIce

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,749
Germany is investing heavily into renewable energies.
The gas from Russia is not the best solution but for the moment it actually is.
Also Germany orders Gas from more than Russia, Trump is mad they don't order from him.


Fuck Trump, the person who wants more coal mines back and gives zero fucks about nuclear waste.
 

ɣGammaɣ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,013
the middle of the woods
The problem wasn't so much nuclear energy. The problem is nuclear waste for which we still don't have a solution.

Yes and if you would calculate all the costs following, nobody would be for nuclear energy, it would be simply to expansive.

Germany is pushing sustainable energy for years and is on a good way. The US on the other hand is miles away.

But it's true in the core, play nice with Russia to keep the gas flowing.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
He really does spout any old rubbish doesn't here.

He is the laughing stock of the world, those other leaders must have having a good old laugh at him behind closed doors.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
The true meaning of Trump's words arent "You shouldnt use Russian products", it is "If you use Russian products you should let Russia do what the fuck it wants"

Get this Russian puppet out NOW.
 

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
Trump described the relationship between Germany and Russia as "inappropriate".

Projecting.jpg
 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
Yes and if you would calculate all the costs following, nobody would be for nuclear energy, it would be simply to expansive.

Germany is pushing sustainable energy for years and is on a good way. The US on the other hand is miles away.

But it's true in the core, play nice with Russia to keep the gas flowing.

Is it though?
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Yeah we know. To be fair that gas deal was made in a time when Russia wasn't seen as a thread, but the media and most people were criticizing it since forever anyway, especially ex chancellor Schröder (And rightfully so).

On the bright side, Germany is investing fortunes into renewable energy and fusion research. So there is a bright shimmer of hope that we won't depends on Russian gas in a couple of years (10+?). Hopefully.
For the rest, Trump is just an idiot and he sees world politics with the eyes of an 8 years old. He is attacking for the sack of attacking, nobody takes him seriously over here.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
You could propose a area where we dump the waster afterwards. Since the alps are out of the question since the idiots in bavaria want nuclear energy but dont want to dump it in the area where it makes sense because its bavaria, this will get a bit difficult.
The problem wasn't so much nuclear energy. The problem is nuclear waste for which we still don't have a solution.
So the solution is to burn gas and cause way more environmental damage on a large scale even effecting other countries with your waste.

The thing is with nuclear waste it's very dangerous, but it is highly concentrated. Which makes the damage controllable.

Germany was never that into nuclear power. It's a problem when even your most modern reactors were designed in the 70's.
My point is we (the EU) had plenty of chances in the past to have these operational for a few decades before being replaced by renewable energy sources.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
What do you expect? Smoke Screens. The closer we get to uncovering the Russian Collusion, the more he'll be trying to speak out against Russia, so people fall for him not being Putin's puppet.

If there's anything Putin wants, or needs, it's inner-European conflict. ESPECIALLY on Germany's back.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
What do you expect? Smoke Screens. The closer we get to uncovering the Russian Collusion, the more he'll be trying to speak out against Russia, so people fall for him not being Putin's puppet.

If there's anything Putin wants, or needs, it's inner-European conflict. ESPECIALLY on Germany's back.

But he's not speaking against Russia. What hes really saying is "If you're using Russian oil you might as well disband NATO or let Putin in"
 

RedValkyrie

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,327
The thing is that germnay is at least on its way being more independent from fossil fuel.

- Nuclear still has the waste Problem.
- Coal is imported.
- Gas is imported.

Its easy for someone like Trump to say something like this when the need of gasoline is the source of so many fucking wars in the middle east. Now the USA is fracking the shit out of their nature.

So tell me what the options are for Germany? Using more also imported coal that pollutes the air much more than gas? Using Nuclear and storing the waste in unsafe leaking mines?

The Russian gas is at this point the only solution to lower the CO2 output until we are independent of the Russians. We also could buy US gas, but not with Trump in control.

In the end, it's just a matter of the market. The Russians are cheap so we buy it from them. Trump would do the same with a pipeline through the Bering Sea.
Good post.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
One of the most hilarious (and bizarre) liberal misconceptions about Trump's period in office is that he is somehow dismantling NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he's leading a massive expansion of NATO militarism, and much of what he says about NATO has to be understood in the context of that expansion as his negotiating end-point.
 

Norwegian_Imposter

Circumventing a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,757
One of the most hilarious (and bizarre) liberal misconceptions about Trump's period in office is that he is somehow dismantling NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he's leading a massive expansion of NATO militarism, and much of what he says about NATO has to be understood in the context of that expansion as his negotiating end-point.
You wat?
 
Oct 27, 2017
977
He is right about Europe's dependence on Russia gas and oil (but obviously, as usual, presents this in basic and fiery rhetoric designed to stir the shit and cause controversy).

Is there any real alternative to this? If we purchased this oil and gas from elsewhere could it be transported at the speed and cost necessary to fuel and power Europe? It is very positive that renewable energy is advancing and growing in significance in Europe - I believe that the UK is expecting renewable energy to supply 50% of the power of the country by 2030. Presumably the other European countries are more advanced in this regard so the dependence on Russia will decline.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,831
So the solution is to burn gas and cause way more environmental damage on a large scale even effecting other countries with your waste.

The thing is with nuclear waste it's very dangerous, but it is highly concentrated. Which makes the damage controllable.

You should watch some our current storage efforts - leaking waste barrels all over the place contaminating the area and pretty much impossible to salvage. And this is fucking Germany - being organized, well planned and executed is our reputation. I don't even want to imagine how things look in other countries who are less "German"...
Asse.jpg
 
Last edited:

dapperbandit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,162
2% of GDP would bump German military spending to #3 in the world above Russia. But even if you dismiss that Germany has no need for a deep water navy, what should she spend that money on to reach 2%? Nukes?

An air force that can actually get off the ground perhaps? Readiness is a massive problem in Europe with hardware and equipment that is out of service or in need of repair.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
One of the most hilarious (and bizarre) liberal misconceptions about Trump's period in office is that he is somehow dismantling NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he's leading a massive expansion of NATO militarism, and much of what he says about NATO has to be understood in the context of that expansion as his negotiating end-point.

erm...no.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
And both Brexit and Trump were effectively won by the premise of 'the EU / Hillary are the old establishment, have they managed to solve the world's problems? NO!'

Take back control and drain the swamp are messages so fundamentally similar in playing to a nations desperation and patriotism, that its kind of hard to doubt they weren't a co-ordinated drive to destabilise global order.

I don't hate Russians or the country in general, but if their government had a hand in both Brexit & Trump, which come on, they certainly did, then to hell with the Russian government, just god damn.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,317
One of the most hilarious (and bizarre) liberal misconceptions about Trump's period in office is that he is somehow dismantling NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he's leading a massive expansion of NATO militarism, and much of what he says about NATO has to be understood in the context of that expansion as his negotiating end-point.

Yeah ok dude
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
Sorry Americans, but you can shove your overpriced fracking gas up your asses.

The Russian gas is the cheapest and most environmently friendly option we have at the moment. So of course we're going to take that.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
One of the most hilarious (and bizarre) liberal misconceptions about Trump's period in office is that he is somehow dismantling NATO. Nothing could be further from the truth. In reality, he's leading a massive expansion of NATO militarism, and much of what he says about NATO has to be understood in the context of that expansion as his negotiating end-point.

Y'all just don't understand these 4D Zero Gravity Sorry! moves. Sad.
 

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
didn't he just started a trade war with the entirety of europe?
and now asks why europe 8and in particular germany) doesn't see him and his country as their BFF?

and that's without considering that russia is just closer, and this lowers the cost compared to importing it from the US
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,124
Well while that may be true, we (the US) are still importing steel from Russia. Granted it's not that much in the grand scheme of things (looks like around 300,000 tons annually), but we're doing it under the guise of national security. Not sure why we'd still be doing that if we're "guarding against Russia."

As usual, you're out of your element, Donny.