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Hollow Knight |OT| Cute Insects That Just Want to Burrow Into Your Heart | Now on Switch
- Thread starter Dancrane212
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Congrats! I beat that boss last night. I was trying over and over thinking I'd never get it done, but was motivated by all the "Git Gud"'s. Doing Grimm Troupe now as well.
Man.... I've lost a bunch of geo again and am now at 0 :(
I just got the
Should I be very concerned about not having any geo at this point in the game?
I just got the
Dream Nail
So I now have the stuff needed for the good ending, but I haven't beaten the final boss yet. My thoughts:
This game lives of two things, exploration and boss fights, and I feel these things work well in mid game. Early on the game is quite slow and you lack abilities which blocks the exploration. After making it to City of Tears, I felt I had enough mobility and combat abilities that I could access the game properly. From there to the dreamers the game really pulled me in.
The endgame felt poor in comparison. Getting the bad end after finding the dreamers was pretty trivial but fine, whatever. If I didn't know about a good ending, I would have stopped there. I had already explored all the obvious paths on the map, so natural exploration was pretty much over at that point. I knew I have a bunch very difficult bosses I can fight, but honestly I was feeling quite bored of fighting. So in the end I just looked up what I need for the good ending. Turns out some of the hidden bonus stuff is just way too obscure to find on your own in a reasonable time.
I guess the endgame is fine for people who want more boss fights, but I felt I got to beat enough people on the way to the bad end. I really liked the 1 on 1 fights like Hornet, but some of the bosses (like those who spawn stuff) pretty much came down to having good gear. Those were either really hard or really easy, but not very satisfying.
In general though, I did like how you could find difficult bosses early and come back to them once you had buffed yourself properly. It allowed me to adjust the difficulty by choosing when to engage in a fight. This doesn't work in the end/postgame, since I have little desire to search blindly for more upgrades in an apparently complete map. And the remaining fights are too difficult and too inconsequential for me to care.
I think the game could benefit from a couple of structural changes. First, one could do a full BotW on the Metroid structure and just give the player all the mobility upgrades in the beginning. This would open up the world for exploration faster. The game could still gate areas behind tough bosses. Secondly, I feel the endgame needs more direction and natural progress. Either something else than a bunch dudes to fight or keep the dudes but also have an interesting way to buff the Knight more so that I can adjust boss difficulty like I could mid game.
This game lives of two things, exploration and boss fights, and I feel these things work well in mid game. Early on the game is quite slow and you lack abilities which blocks the exploration. After making it to City of Tears, I felt I had enough mobility and combat abilities that I could access the game properly. From there to the dreamers the game really pulled me in.
The endgame felt poor in comparison. Getting the bad end after finding the dreamers was pretty trivial but fine, whatever. If I didn't know about a good ending, I would have stopped there. I had already explored all the obvious paths on the map, so natural exploration was pretty much over at that point. I knew I have a bunch very difficult bosses I can fight, but honestly I was feeling quite bored of fighting. So in the end I just looked up what I need for the good ending. Turns out some of the hidden bonus stuff is just way too obscure to find on your own in a reasonable time.
I guess the endgame is fine for people who want more boss fights, but I felt I got to beat enough people on the way to the bad end. I really liked the 1 on 1 fights like Hornet, but some of the bosses (like those who spawn stuff) pretty much came down to having good gear. Those were either really hard or really easy, but not very satisfying.
In general though, I did like how you could find difficult bosses early and come back to them once you had buffed yourself properly. It allowed me to adjust the difficulty by choosing when to engage in a fight. This doesn't work in the end/postgame, since I have little desire to search blindly for more upgrades in an apparently complete map. And the remaining fights are too difficult and too inconsequential for me to care.
I think the game could benefit from a couple of structural changes. First, one could do a full BotW on the Metroid structure and just give the player all the mobility upgrades in the beginning. This would open up the world for exploration faster. The game could still gate areas behind tough bosses. Secondly, I feel the endgame needs more direction and natural progress. Either something else than a bunch dudes to fight or keep the dudes but also have an interesting way to buff the Knight more so that I can adjust boss difficulty like I could mid game.
No you can always get more.. Do you have wandered journals and hollownest seals? You can always sell them to get geo back. Also don't forget the grubs you been saving. Grub dad appreciates it.
So I think I fucked up... I didn't know I could sell the items you mentioned and once I found out I could... I sold them all for tons of geo... and then lost it all :( Wish I didn't do that... but it's too late.
I have been saving grubs! Should I go back to Grub-Father for some rewards?
Also is there a sort of bank in the game? I mean...
I gave about 200 geo to this one NPC but it looks like she stole it
This is one of the best games I've ever played. But I feel one of its greatest strengths is sort of dropped by the time you're st the endgame.
You start playing this completely lost, literally and narratively. No clue what's going on or where to go. But the genius level design lets you slowly figure it out. You'll start exploring, finding this, defeating enemies, getting upgrades, and everything falls into place naturally.
But by the end of the game, progression completely stops feeling natural. Did anybody find The Hive without a guide? Did anybody here figure out how to fight The Radiance without being told how? I actually summoned the Grimm Troupe without googling how but if I had played the game before the DLC came out I'd never in my life had thought to go back up there to look for anything.
I feel the joy and satisfaction of exploration is diminished when you don't properly balance how hidden some stuff can be. Grubs are a great example of "hiding" stuff properly. They make sounds which push you to keep exploring until you make it. But honestly some stuff seems to be nearly impossible to figure out on your own, and when you do stuff in this game following instructions it's waaaaaay leas satisfying for me.
You start playing this completely lost, literally and narratively. No clue what's going on or where to go. But the genius level design lets you slowly figure it out. You'll start exploring, finding this, defeating enemies, getting upgrades, and everything falls into place naturally.
But by the end of the game, progression completely stops feeling natural. Did anybody find The Hive without a guide? Did anybody here figure out how to fight The Radiance without being told how? I actually summoned the Grimm Troupe without googling how but if I had played the game before the DLC came out I'd never in my life had thought to go back up there to look for anything.
I feel the joy and satisfaction of exploration is diminished when you don't properly balance how hidden some stuff can be. Grubs are a great example of "hiding" stuff properly. They make sounds which push you to keep exploring until you make it. But honestly some stuff seems to be nearly impossible to figure out on your own, and when you do stuff in this game following instructions it's waaaaaay leas satisfying for me.
Save the grub until you are ready to buy something. Shame you didn't give the banker more.
It's ok if you play the game more you will see that npc again. Yes you should go visit grubfather if you need the bro.. I would hang onto wanderes journals and seals you find for an emergancy in the future.
You literally described the things I had to cave in and look up....except Radiance. Don't think I've seen that yet. In general, big things hidden behind hard to find breakable walls isn't a particularly great design. At least there are a few giant clues that the Hive exists, but I agree.
There's actually a bug they haven't patched out yet which lets you farm Geo absurdly quick. It does require having a few charms though.
Charms: Stalwart Shell + Shaman Stone + Flukenest
Location: Greenpath (room above the Greenpath Stag Station)
How: You want to go fight the two Moss Knights in the room above the Greenpath Stag Station. They're the big shield + sword dudes. Basically you let them hit you and while you're "invincible" for a split second after being hit, you use your Flukenest spell *while your character is clipped inside the enemy*. It's weird and might take a few tries but you wanna hit the spell right as your character is "inside" the enemy. You'll know if you did it right because the game massively slows down for a second and he drops like 900 Geo. About 1200-1500 Geo if you're wearing Fragile Greed. Coninue left and repeat on the second Moss Knight. Then you go back down to the bench, sit down to recover health + respawn enemies and go back up to do it again. Hit the bats along the way for some Soul generation and you'll have more Geo than you know what do with in no time.
Yeah, saving the Grub-Father visit for now... just in-case. I read about the banker after I deposited some geo... shame indeed :/
Good stuff, thanks for the write-up Ocean. I'll have to get on collecting some of these charms
also "hi" *waves* ;)
I might try this tonight just to finish upgrading some fragile charms. I'm really sad that I'm just doing cleanup work now and the game is essentially done for me. Bring on those expansions!!
I can certainly agree with your points. I'm pretty much at the end just trying to 100% complete, and when I start asking for tips, that's when I know something could've been done better.
It might have dropped the ball , but I guess it did it late enough. Still, you're right about The Hive part.
Finding the hive was quite a challenge for me but the game does give you enough hints to keep looking. I basically took the tram and discovered a sub area where you cant directly reach the hive but you do enter a room where you see an inaccesible area from where you are. Thats what made me keep looking but it did take me a while to find the entrance.
Yeah, that and the grub map really scream for you to search the whole area.
I found everything on my first playthrough it took me 40 hours but i did it. This game doesnt have much thats just super hidden youd have to be lucky to find it.
Same. I did have to look up the location of Path of Pain and the White Defender though on my replay with DLC added. I still don't know why they hid those breakables without any visual indicators.
Hiveblood~
Pfft. I sure as shit needed it. Would have never made it without it, that's for damn sure.
...Okay, I hate you now. ;__;
Me too. Pure luck. Cast a spell on those bees, boom.
Missed this post, oops~
I'm actually listening to the soundtrack right now and yeah Mantis Lords is one of my favourites. But, I've always had a soft spot for Fungal Wastes. It's a perfect mix of smooth and soothing with a hint of melancholy to it, it's just really lovely and I never get tired of it.
There are certainly a couple sections in the game that are hard to find out.
It's not like I can't see the connection and idea behind that in hindsight but it's real thin to just come up with that. Because the Kingsoul's charm ability isn't that strong and requires 5 notches it also isn't likely you'd just stumble upon all that.
That you need to have the Kingsoul equipped, enter the Abyss and get to the bottom of the first large area so that some passage in the ground suddenly opens and you can get the Void Heart... yeh, aight.
It's not like I can't see the connection and idea behind that in hindsight but it's real thin to just come up with that. Because the Kingsoul's charm ability isn't that strong and requires 5 notches it also isn't likely you'd just stumble upon all that.
Best track in the game is obviously this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_PCUu2dt0Y ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Basically.
You know, I actually do dislike how the sense for reasonable aesthetics just get thrown out of the window in order to forge the difficult platforming sections. I do rather like the world building in this game and White Palance really stands out as super gameified.
On one hand it's refereshing to have a level focused purely on platforming. On the other hand, the experience is very uneven given the
fights with the "Boomerang Knights"
On the upshot, though,
no chasing Shades upon death. I'm glad they ditched it for this segment specifically
It might be luck but I found almost everything on my first run without a guide. The only things I had to look up were where to find a final pale ore
and how to upgrade Howling Wraiths.
I do agree that it slows down a bit late game; I had a really rough time with Watcher Knights for example (I didn't have the shade cloak), but I was really motivated to beat it because I knew there was a Dreamer after that. Now I'm trying to trying to 107% and I just can't be bothered to learn Grimm and Trial of the Fool well enough to beat it.
Maybe it's time for a short break.
Nosk
I do agree that it slows down a bit late game; I had a really rough time with Watcher Knights for example (I didn't have the shade cloak), but I was really motivated to beat it because I knew there was a Dreamer after that. Now I'm trying to trying to 107% and I just can't be bothered to learn Grimm and Trial of the Fool well enough to beat it.
Maybe it's time for a short break.
To be clear: that wasn't meant as stealthbragging or what have you. I died plenty in the White Palace. I meant that you literally don't need Hiveblood because it's an inferior option to Deep Focus + Grubsong + Grubberfly's Elegy. You can't die and you won't have to wait for health to recharge. DF+Grubsong alone even gives you a lot of retries.
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Oh, I see. I thought you'd still run out of Focus at some point. But I guess with this exact combination you always regain enough Soul to heal a full mask every time? I didn't know Grubberfly's Elegy added more Soul on damage. Damn, I might have spent LESS time than I did then. >_<
Yeah because DF heals 2 masks and you get that bonus, 2 hits will give you enough soul to top off. I didn't know about that Elegy bonus either, I only used DF+Grubsong on my first go on Switch and died plenty on some sections. I mention this because the other option is more tedious and leads to downtime.
Your motivation was stronger than mine, after losing around 15-20 times I decided to give up :( I'm continuing the exploration, going to the other Dreamers for example. The Watcher Knights are really hard, I could barely defeat one thankks toe the damage inflicted when he was alone.
NKG theme for me. I still can't get over how damn good his introduction is.
I read those strats, but I don't have those charms yet. I'm going to try to pure skill that fight like a moron.
There is literally zero satisfaction in cheesing the fight. It's really not worth it since it's not even like you get something for beatin him.
All you need is the super dash ability, the Weaversong Charm, and the Defender's Crest Charm. But it's an autopilot strat where you literally do nothing but hold a button down while your charms slowly kill the boss without any input from you.
I'd only suggest exploiting the top right corner grab cheese on Lost Kin / Failed Champion as a dire last ditch desperate move if you're just legit frustrated and for up.
If you want inspiration: This guy fights Lost Kin without jumping, without dashing, without using any spells and without any charms or Nail upgrades.
https://youtu.be/IvVseIyWvyc
The crispy parry life.
Be sure to use a Dreamgate before the boss room if you haven't already.
WTF. Just looked into this and had no idea it was a thing. Now, I really hope I have 900 essence to acquire it
Man, he's so good. Reminds me of the guys who best Rogue Legacy with the first dude.
Shamen stone quickfocus are your pals. stand close to them to make them melee you and dont dash in the air unless you have to.
Yes and yes. Our personal experiences with Hollow Knight aside, why is a game having hard-to-find secrets a bad thing?
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