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Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Yes and yes. Our personal experiences with Hollow Knight aside, why is a game having hard-to-find secrets a bad thing?
Props on figuring those out!

I never suggested hard to find secrets in a game are a bad thing in general. I was just commenting on how, in my opinion, hiding the absolute main draws in the game (areas and bosses) in a way that you are highly unlikely to figure out on your own is a shame, given that finding stuff on your own is a big part of the game's appeal.

Hiding mask or soul vessel fragments? No problem. Hiding grubs or Charms? Cool beans. Hiding NPCs who do nothing but add a little lore? Also cool. But I don't see why you'd want to hide bosses or areas. It's one thing to "tease" them before they're accesible because at least you know "ok there must be a way to get there". But when there's something like Radiance or The Hive which adds so much to the experience, but is so likely to be missed by most people who play "as intended" (blind)? I'm not sure what purpose it serves.
 

KodaRuss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
Texas
Some of the bosses vary a huge amount in difficulty tied Zote a couple times and could not get him down as well as Lost Kin. Then I moved onto the Jelly Fish girl and I couldnt believe how easy it was.
 

OnanieBomb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,476
So I now have the stuff needed for the good ending, but I haven't beaten the final boss yet. My thoughts:

This game lives of two things, exploration and boss fights, and I feel these things work well in mid game. Early on the game is quite slow and you lack abilities which blocks the exploration. After making it to City of Tears, I felt I had enough mobility and combat abilities that I could access the game properly. From there to the dreamers the game really pulled me in.

The endgame felt poor in comparison. Getting the bad end after finding the dreamers was pretty trivial but fine, whatever. If I didn't know about a good ending, I would have stopped there. I had already explored all the obvious paths on the map, so natural exploration was pretty much over at that point. I knew I have a bunch very difficult bosses I can fight, but honestly I was feeling quite bored of fighting. So in the end I just looked up what I need for the good ending. Turns out some of the hidden bonus stuff is just way too obscure to find on your own in a reasonable time.

I guess the endgame is fine for people who want more boss fights, but I felt I got to beat enough people on the way to the bad end. I really liked the 1 on 1 fights like Hornet, but some of the bosses (like those who spawn stuff) pretty much came down to having good gear. Those were either really hard or really easy, but not very satisfying.

In general though, I did like how you could find difficult bosses early and come back to them once you had buffed yourself properly. It allowed me to adjust the difficulty by choosing when to engage in a fight. This doesn't work in the end/postgame, since I have little desire to search blindly for more upgrades in an apparently complete map. And the remaining fights are too difficult and too inconsequential for me to care.

I think the game could benefit from a couple of structural changes. First, one could do a full BotW on the Metroid structure and just give the player all the mobility upgrades in the beginning. This would open up the world for exploration faster. The game could still gate areas behind tough bosses. Secondly, I feel the endgame needs more direction and natural progress. Either something else than a bunch dudes to fight or keep the dudes but also have an interesting way to buff the Knight more so that I can adjust boss difficulty like I could mid game.

I'm about 25 hours in, got to 1/3 dreamers and I more or less feel the same. It's an incredibly good game, but I'm starting to feel done with it so I doubt I'll push past whatever the first ending I see is.
 

JudgmentJay

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,211
Texas
Props on figuring those out!

I never suggested hard to find secrets in a game are a bad thing in general. I was just commenting on how, in my opinion, hiding the absolute main draws in the game (areas and bosses) in a way that you are highly unlikely to figure out on your own is a shame, given that finding stuff on your own is a big part of the game's appeal.

Hiding mask or soul vessel fragments? No problem. Hiding grubs or Charms? Cool beans. Hiding NPCs who do nothing but add a little lore? Also cool. But I don't see why you'd want to hide bosses or areas. It's one thing to "tease" them before they're accesible because at least you know "ok there must be a way to get there". But when there's something like Radiance or The Hive which adds so much to the experience, but is so likely to be missed by most people who play "as intended" (blind)? I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

In a world where most devs are terrified of players missing anything in their game I love that a handful aren't afraid to hide away bigger chunks of content as secrets. It makes it feel far more special when you do find them. It also encourages community discussion when the game is new. Besides, The Hive and The Radiance account for like 3% of Hollow Knight's content. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Souls games have more hidden content than Hollow Knight.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
I think with this game it's a mistake to try and exhaust everything and get 107% before getting an ending. Sort of like trying to 100% each level in Mario Odyssey before moving on, it will burn you out on the game. I'd recommend finishing up the game after completing most of the map and awakening the dreamers, rather than saving the final bosses for later while you go around hunting every collectible. Around 70-80% (about 20 hours or so, obviously they don't tell you your percentage until you enter the final area), you should be heading for an ending. Then, you can take your time and get collectibles later in shorter sessions.
 
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RenorMirshann

Avenger
Nov 6, 2017
704
Poland
Need guidance, I'm going in circles for too long... all the "open" paths require something I don't have.

This is my map. I only have dash, in terms of abilities.

RGEkldS.jpg


Urao8dm.jpg
 

Weegian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,732
I noticed you can for some reason charge your nail arts during the credits.

In my headcanon,

that means you're alive after the credits roll.
 

JayCB64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,977
Wales
This is one of the best games I've ever played. But I feel one of its greatest strengths is sort of dropped by the time you're st the endgame.

You start playing this completely lost, literally and narratively. No clue what's going on or where to go. But the genius level design lets you slowly figure it out. You'll start exploring, finding this, defeating enemies, getting upgrades, and everything falls into place naturally.

But by the end of the game, progression completely stops feeling natural. Did anybody find The Hive without a guide? Did anybody here figure out how to fight The Radiance without being told how? I actually summoned the Grimm Troupe without googling how but if I had played the game before the DLC came out I'd never in my life had thought to go back up there to look for anything.

I feel the joy and satisfaction of exploration is diminished when you don't properly balance how hidden some stuff can be. Grubs are a great example of "hiding" stuff properly. They make sounds which push you to keep exploring until you make it. But honestly some stuff seems to be nearly impossible to figure out on your own, and when you do stuff in this game following instructions it's waaaaaay leas satisfying for me.
I adore the game so far, but I'm a little over 25 hours in and am agreeing with the sentiment whole heartedly.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,305
But I don't see why you'd want to hide bosses or areas. It's one thing to "tease" them before they're accesible because at least you know "ok there must be a way to get there".
The grub map is helpful with that, if you haven't found the Hive you'll find it for sure with that map if you explore to try and find that grub.

But anyway I disagree, I love hidden bosses and areas. One of the coolest moment in Dark Souls was discovering Ash Lake and it's completely hidden. Same with the Painted World. Or Darklurker in Dark Souls 2, Bloodborne's Nightmare Frontier, Castle Cainhurst, and Upper Cathedral Ward, or Archdragon Peak in Dark Souls 3.
 

Kenagain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
217
Soooo I got this last night, and granted I was hammered when I started playing it, I'm very confused on what to do exactly. I kinda think the whole being hammered thing is why, but what exactly am I aiming to do in this game??
 

MonkeySleeve

Member
Nov 15, 2017
589
Soooo I got this last night, and granted I was hammered when I started playing it, I'm very confused on what to do exactly. I kinda think the whole being hammered thing is why, but what exactly am I aiming to do in this game??
It's up to you to find out what happened to this world that you've been dropped in. And maybe if you can do something about it :)
 

Jonneh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,538
UK
I'm around 4 hours in and, simply put; oh my god.

This and Celeste are two of the best games not only of this year, but ever.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
All White Defender fights done, I really like the theme, gives a really epic feeling to the fight.



Those few lines of dialogue were something too, poor guy :(

I wonder if Hegemol is still alive, and if they are going to touch that subject in the remaining content that's left.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,744
There's actually a bug they haven't patched out yet which lets you farm Geo absurdly quick. It does require having a few charms though.

Charms: Stalwart Shell + Shaman Stone + Flukenest

Location: Greenpath (room above the Greenpath Stag Station)

How: You want to go fight the two Moss Knights in the room above the Greenpath Stag Station. They're the big shield + sword dudes. Basically you let them hit you and while you're "invincible" for a split second after being hit, you use your Flukenest spell *while your character is clipped inside the enemy*. It's weird and might take a few tries but you wanna hit the spell right as your character is "inside" the enemy. You'll know if you did it right because the game massively slows down for a second and he drops like 900 Geo. About 1200-1500 Geo if you're wearing Fragile Greed. Coninue left and repeat on the second Moss Knight. Then you go back down to the bench, sit down to recover health + respawn enemies and go back up to do it again. Hit the bats along the way for some Soul generation and you'll have more Geo than you know what do with in no time.

Wow. This was incredibly easy to pull off. All charms collected. Thanks!
 

Psychotron

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,682
Finished off Soul Tyrant and Grimm tonight. Game is teasing me by having my completion at 99%. I'm still missing one mask shard and soul vessel, could that count? Beating Soul Tyant did nothing to my completion. Maybe it's the last three charms I'm missing.
 

kyo2004

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,580
Bogotá D.C.
So... First update for Hollow Knight on Switch... Time for see what changes they've done...


Edit: Patch notes (from reddit)

Heya All,

Short update today to say: We're pushing out a Hollow Knight patch for Nintendo Switch players. This one's just to clean up some bugs, and will download automatically to your system if connected to the internet. Details below.

A small note: We will be adding controller rebinding to the Nintendo Switch version. Please expect that feature to arrive with the Gods & Glory Content Pack.

Patch Notes:

v1345 • Fixed being able to soft lock the game (empty dialogue box) by hard quitting out after the final nailsmith nail upgrade

• Fixed an issue players not being able to load save files (Rare issue with voidheart / kings soul)

• Fixed visual glitch breaking out of monarch wings cutscene

• Fixed shade spawn location when dying in grub room near Watcher Knights

• Fixed splash reactions for Quirrel and Spa bugs

• Fixed an issue with Zote still appearing in City of Tears while he is trapped inside DeepNest

• Fixed an issue with map icon not correctly disappearing once collecting all orbs from a Whispering Root

• Fixed an issue with Map Zone titles in certain languages

• Fixed an issue that caused the game to crash if player looked down/up while riding a big lift

• Fixed an issue that caused a mask shard to never spawn if a player dies in the same moment as killing the Mawlek boss

• Adjusted a Shade spawn location that was inaccessible to early players

• Fixed a bug where a Dreamshield could disappear after using Dreamnail

• Fixed an issue where player could get soft locked by quaking on the top of a statue in Deep Nest Spider Town

• Fixed an issue where player could get more geo than intended from killing certain enemies with fluke spell

• Fixed an issue where game could sometimes crash when using cyclone dash into spikes

• Fixed and issue where player could get stuck in the relic shop by dreamgating in when store was closed

• Fixed the game from softlocking when checking inventory and tabbing to map screen after picking up certain & Pale Ore/King's Idol
 
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Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Just when I thought I had a handle on the beauty of this game, I find the Teacher's Archives.

So this *is* a Metroid game!

Quirrel, my man!
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
So I think I have a working strat going for Lost Kin, where I just keep hitting him with the big fart gas grubs. The gas kills the ghosts, so it's just a matter of dodging his shit until he goes down.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
Finished off Soul Tyrant and Grimm tonight. Game is teasing me by having my completion at 99%. I'm still missing one mask shard and soul vessel, could that count? Beating Soul Tyant did nothing to my completion. Maybe it's the last three charms I'm missing.

Max total is 107%, I'm pretty sure each charm gives you 1%, when you complete a mask or a soul vessel that also counts 1%.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,099
God damn, Failed Champion was intense. Finally figured out to bait him into jumping into my corner, dash past him, hit him twice while he's recovering, and then rinse and repeat on the other side. When he got back up after downing him for a third time I was ready to say "oh fuck this!" lol
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
What am I supposed to do once I get the dream nail? Already upgraded it once.

Collect essence, the Seer will give you rewards when you meet her targets. It's important if you want to see the true ending.

You can get it from those "tree" things, dream warriors (graves around the map, you can buy a map pin for that) and dream bosses. There are also some npc ghosts around.

You should also use it in living beings, to see their thoughts.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Wow. This was incredibly easy to pull off. All charms collected. Thanks!
I know it's exploiting a bug but buying all three Unbreakable Charms is 36,000 Geo. Playing the game naturally that would be an absolutely insane grind.

Edit: oh RIP it was just patched. Lucky I got mine done.
 

R8ER34

Member
Mar 4, 2018
1,200
Collect essence, the Seer will give you rewards when you meet her targets. It's important if you want to see the true ending.

You can get it from those "tree" things, dream warriors (graves around the map, you can buy a map pin for that) and dream bosses. There are also some npc ghosts around.

You should also use it in living beings, to see their thoughts.

How do you use it on living beings?
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
How do you use it on living beings?
Careful timing. You get Soul from Dream Nail hits on living targets, which is useful when fighting a boss and they're staggered and you want a Soul boost for healing or something, but honestly not something you'll use too often.

900 Essence opens up an extremely useful skill, by the way. And once you use it at least once (it costs 1 Essence per use), it raises the probability of getting 1 Essence from killing a random enemy to like 2% (even more if Dream Wielder Charm is equipped).

There's also a Mask and Nail upgrade tied to farming Essence, so it's worth pursuing.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,305
Frustrating tonight. I couldn't make any progress in the Trial of the Fool. Still die at the walls and spikes wave.

So I gave up and tried... Nightmare Grimm instead. That did not go well. He's too fast, I can't survive whatsoever.

I don't think I can do this. ;_; I hate giving up on a game, but this is probably too hard for me.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
This is my 2nd playthrough (first was on pc) and just like there, I'm spending way too much time trying to find where to go. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time traversing and trying to find spots I haven't been, only to find out the reason why I didn't discover that part is because I couldn't. Had enough of that shit and had to turn to guides, just like my first playthrough. Trying to find out how to get passed these black barriers.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
How do you use it on living beings?

Same way as the others, you just hit them with the dream nail. Forgot to mention but you can do the same to corpses too, even if there's no ghost. You can see their thoughts when they were dying.

Frustrating tonight. I couldn't make any progress in the Trial of the Fool. Still die at the walls and spikes wave.

So I gave up and tried... Nightmare Grimm instead. That did not go well. He's too fast, I can't survive whatsoever.

I don't think I can do this. ;_; I hate giving up on a game, but this is probably too hard for me.

Just keep throwing yourself at him. His moves aren't too hard to deal with and there's no bullshit like minions or stuff like that, it's just really a matter of getting used to his speed.

In my second run even though I knew exactly what to do in every of his patterns I still died a couple of times because I wasn't reacting fast enough.

Like every challenge the first tries are always the hardest and sometimes it seems impossible but once it starts to click you will eventually do it and after that it seems easy.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,077
Had no idea you couldn't rebind your buttons in the Switch version.

That would be awful for me, I have the attack button on R1 (charged slashes by holding square felt uncomfortable while jumping, pogo also feels much easier to pull off this way), normal dash on L2 and heal/spell on square (using DS4 on steam).
 

jrDev

Banned
Mar 2, 2018
1,528
You have to find a key in the Queen's Gardens:

Yn26oq1.png


Bottom right where the Knight is, in the end of that corridor.

After getting it you have to go to Kingdom's Edge:

KgwdsQb.png


It's that blue entrance on the left.
Thanks! Btw the last ones I needed was being held in Tower of Love...so map wasn't really necessary haha...

Man, that White Palace was something else, beat it though after hours of play.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Frustrating tonight. I couldn't make any progress in the Trial of the Fool. Still die at the walls and spikes wave.

So I gave up and tried... Nightmare Grimm instead. That did not go well. He's too fast, I can't survive whatsoever.

I don't think I can do this. ;_; I hate giving up on a game, but this is probably too hard for me.

Hmm, I could tell you how to identify his attack patterns and what to do but then it nearly took me 2 hours to fully realize all that myself and made the defeat just the more juicy.

Maybe a slight tip:
NGK appears in the air: You immediately jump. NKG appears on the ground: You stay on the ground yourself at first. Furthermore, which one of his 2 air/ground attacks he uses are usually indicated by how closely he appears to you.

Some of the bosses vary a huge amount in difficulty tied Zote a couple times and could not get him down as well as Lost Kin. Then I moved onto the Jelly Fish girl and I couldnt believe how easy it was.

Uumuu, the jellyfish, is of the worst bosses imo. Only 2 different attacks and lots of invulnerability. While I didn't mind the latter aspect that much in how it played out for story's sake etc., it's just a weak battle with boring presentation. I mean, better than Herrah not even having a boss fight preceding her I guess...

That's the unfortunate thing with Hollow Knight, as much damn content as there already is in the game, a couple sections could've used some more, for better pacing and so forth.
 
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ryechu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
880

Apple_Sours

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
46
I bought this game on the switch a few nights back thanks to this thread and started it last night.
What a phenomenal game so far, feels great to play, the art style and the soundtrack are both superb too.
Can't wait to dive back in.
 
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