No, we're to the "gamers have the right to get any dev fired for their politics if they can bait them long enough into blowing up."
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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
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No, we're to the "gamers have the right to get any dev fired for their politics if they can bait them long enough into blowing up."
It really is for some. I responded to a post that said and clarified that men shouldn't disagree with women outside of having specific credentials. Many are still arguing Deroir was rude for disagreeing with her and reducing and such comments to mansplaining or telling her how to do her job.
Some don't leave any room for any male to comment save those with a longer resume. So yeah, for some it does biol down to "an opinion and a dick."
"Female devs have immunity to treat respectful people like shit because other harass them"
Nothing was missed. We had some more sarcasm targeting Deroir complete with pretending the only other setting than calling him an asshat is "listen to every man on Twitter about what the proper way to do her job is, calmly and without incident."
You can't be any more transparent than that.
I just love the men showing up to trot out the "she's a bad feminist" line while relishing in the abrupt (and contradictory to company policy) dismissal of a woman in the face of rampant harassment. Like any of you give would give a shit about that in any other situation. Funny how they never seem that concerned about ArenaNet's own imperfect politics.
Did he really bait her into blowing up? His question was completely fair and polite. How is that baiting a blow up?
Do Kamiya's tweets hurt his brand? Hurt Platinum Game's brand?
Also, what is Kamiya replying to? Polite critique from a fan?
I think a lot of this thread is discussing different things. I personally woudn't fire Price or Kamiya (as I don't really see their tweets significantly hurting the brand, maybe sending an email that it does reflect poorly on the company). On the other hand I do understand the decision from Arenanet to let her go. I'd also understand if Kamiya's business partners would decide to show him the door based on his tweet history.
No, I really don't.
If I were to reply to you with "bark bark bark bark bark" and nothing else, I would be banned on the spot.
I understand where Price was coming from, I know how people with that mentality are. What I don't understand is why people support her? She literally did something wrong and was punished for it, gender had nothing to do with it. I think maybe they fired her a little too quick, but... I mean. We argue about free speech and how we should tolerate more people. But this also applies the other way, she should also be able to tolerate and not act like an asshole when someone contradicts her.
If you're a dick, you get the boot - simple as that
If you're a dick, you get the boot - simple as that
I kinda have to agree, even if you disagree with her firing you can't deny that she is being very immature and unprofessional at this point.
That's NOT how you get back to a company Jessica, what are you doing?? You are handling this situation unbelievably bad...
Ummmm. People keep forgetting this whole thing happened on the 4th of July which is a MAJOR NATIONAL HOLIDAY! She was fired on the 5th when the office was open again. I know I said I wouldn't come back in here but seriously, we need to look at facts not conjecture.
User banned (2 days): trolling, derailing
dw i gotchu bruh
This is one of the major things I think people need to grasp. There are devs and people in gaming being shitty on Twitter and rude to fans all the time. It's not uncommon. The behavior isn't mind bending, it's just that gamers are selective of what they will let go and almost 100% of the time they don't let shit go when it involves women saying things that are pro women.
hey what are you doing
no more than Price's hurt Anet's
also i'm gonna assume you haven't seen kamiya's twitter if you think he wouldn't respond to polite critique in an aggressive way
Yeah srsly BDS shouldn't have replied like that
The proper response was "Actually, it's about ethics in gaming journalism"
"female devs shouldn't have a mob harassing them into firing for mild twitter incidents"
Here fixed.
So, don't engage at all? OK...
You don't get immunity from disagreement on public forums just because you do something professionally, regardless of your gender. Just because your work professionally does not mean you necessarily have it all figured out when it comes to your profession. If you think you do and are not interested in discourse, then why post your thoughts about the challenges of your job on Twitter? What do you think is going to happen?
Kamiya's grandfathered in, really.
Dogwhistle for... what exactly?
How dare you newmoneytrash, I've always been passionate about this! Always! Jessica Price had it coming for indulging in vile hate speech like "asshat."
My god, I can barely type the word without getting physically sick. /s
Well honestly, being a beloved Japanese developer in these parts. Cliffy B doesn't get Kamiya treatment here, who is also often abrasive and direct in social media and otherwise. Cliffy B is a dick while Kamiya is tensai.
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They were not dismissed. Did you actually read the same replies I did?
Also, are you seriously asking for people to provide you with evidence of the stipulations in her employment contract or other corporate policies that ArenaNet employees are expected to adhere to?
That's not at all my point. They could have been looking over her shoulder as she posted the tweet and then fired her, they still were caving to hate mob pressure that had existed LONG BEFORE this incident.
Well, do we know for sure there wasn't a conversation, or that she hasn't been previously warned? Some have suggested that she refused to offer an apology and that's the reason for her quick departure - I have no idea if that's actually the case, but I don't think we have many details regarding the termination proceedings either way. It's awful that she's been a consistent target of harassment, but that doesn't excuse her behavior towards this particular fan.
People if there is any one lesson to take away from this it's Chill and Let Chill. I think we're starting to get too hostile in here.
You can say Prices response was wrong and say that Anet's response was wrong as well. They arent mutually exclusive. I really think Anet should have given her the chance to delete the tweet and apologize in a PM(not publicly) for it.
She isnt in customer service so I disagree with those comparisons about being fired if she was mean to them outside of work. Every corporation has different rules and policies and it seems Anet needs to adjust theirs a bit.
She isnt in customer service so I disagree with those comparisons about being fired if she was mean to them outside of work. Every corporation has different rules and policies and it seems Anet needs to adjust theirs a bit.
thats Price's arguement. you cant only take the info from one side of the arguement, you need to cross check this stuff. there is a reason journalists usually have multiple sources.
i wasnt asking about gg. i was asking about problems with the company.
that meeting DOES matter, it probably the most important piece of the puzzle. its a meeting where both MO, HR, and JP were present. again, the only info we do have about this is from Price's side, and it only consists of "i was being oppressed by having to listen to what MO was saying"
they could have done a lot of things, maybe they have done some of it. we dont know.
we dont know the 12 year history of his employment.
i dont know how many times i have to tell you that reserving judgement is NOT pushing a narrative.
What do you mean can you explain? I feel like you would only get banned for doing something wrong.
Like how you would only get fired for doing something wrong.
Double standards are a myth to be honest.
Yeah, but hey check this out: it doesn't matter. You either agree to work under those circumstances or you don't.
User banned (2 days): Repeated bad faith commentary; constructing strawman arguments
"I don't believe Anet or other game devs have any capacity for individual thought when it comes to employee management. It must be GG, not the fact that she violated their stance on customer treatment and feedback"
Or conversely:
"Female devs experiencing harassment should have no accountability in social media"
No one is having a conversation here. This thread is a mess.
I think if there's one thing we can all agree on is that this whole thing is a mess that was handled poorly by pretty much every party involved. Arenanet are gonna have to have some serious talks going forward on how to handle these sort of issues in the future.
Female posters are being accused of getting preferential treatment from mods in this thread. It's far beyond hostile.
Pretty simple, one is an industry veteran director and founder of the company he works at, and the other two are rank and file narrative designer/writer. At most companies, different rules apply between being at the top and being a subordinate. Also, surprisingly, different companies have different cultures and policies regarding external communications and community engagement.
I personally take no offense or issue with the things Fries and Fisher said, but I 100% understand ArenaNet's decision to fire them for doing so.
Yes, or at least not the entire story is given with regards to Fries.
You seem to be saying that it's unfair she got away with barking, because you couldn't do the same without a ban.
I was here like 15 pages ago and the whole thing just keeps getting worse. I don't know how but the conversation is actually less civil now than before. There are literally "bark bark bark" from both sides now, which I personally never seen on this site before.
I am convinced that people in some ways actually enjoys angry arguments, it's like an online literature pvp experience or something.
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