How much national pride do you have?

Advance.Wars.Sgt. said:

The inclination that a non-black person can dictate what a black person should feel about America is laughably absurd.

FFS black people can't even compartmentalize their racial strife without the finger wagging of some outside. But I guess this is par the course for people who are so eager to use Civil Rights as a way to keep present day blacks in check.

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Exactly. I'm used to it, so I can't say that I'm too upset, but I'd be lying if I said that what he's saying isn't getting to me just a little bit.

Like, you would really have to lack perspective to think it's ok to tell someone who is effectively in survival mode on a day-to-day basis that they should just "look at the bigger picture" and not focus on their individual experience. Like, what in the actual fuck!

A lot. Proud of the country and wish to see it succeed and continue to get better for those that live here.

None whatsoever.

American. I live here.

I like to geek out about Arab/Syrian history sometimes but that's pretty much the extent of it

Akira86 said:

NightMuncher is 3 posts away from asking blacks to thank America for 'freeing the slaves'.

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In so many words, I feel that he has already posited this suggestion. It's really appalling.

It's funny, I feel more national pride the further I am from my country. Like when I'm away on work or studies.

I'm not blind to it's faults, but it does help when said country ranked pretty high up on the international lists of countries for good things.

norog said:

I'm proud we're better than the US. That's about it.

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Fellow Canuck?

National pride kicks in during sporting events or if we do some kick ass progressive things or stand up for oppressed people. But honestly, being obnoxiously nationalistic over something most people had no choice in is extremely stupid. I feel the same about religion and ethnicity as well.

Pride is a weird word. There are aspects of the United States and its history I admire, like the Constitution, the republican ideals (not like that), the national parks, the music and the entertainment... But then there's everything else.

And nothing is unbesmirched. Even the country's greatest triumph since independence, World War II, is saddled with firebombings, internment camps, and the rejection of Holocaust refugees. We can't not suck. Even at our best, we can't turn off our imperialist, exclusionary tendencies. That's America.

Pride? None. I did nothing to be born here (US). I am definitely grateful of the opportunities provided to me, but that is different to me.

I feel a stronger connection to my provincial identity than a national one. I was born and raised in Canada and only went to Tim Hortons for the first time in my twenties.

None. I don't spend time having pride in things that are true of me simply by random chance.

I like and am glad I was born here but it's not something im "proud" of in a same way I am proud of my anime figure collection.

From the U.S. Pretty much close to zero but I also know that no other country is perfect and human beings in general are trash. The only real difference in other countries is quality of life.

Is it possible to have negative pride ? Cause that's what i have.

Shy said:

Is it possible to have negative pride ? Cause that's what i have.

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Yeah, it's called shame.

brainchild said:

Yeah, it's called shame.

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Ahh. Then yes i have this "shame" of which you speak.

On a scale of 0 to 100, probably something like a score of 3.5.

I used to be a bit more naive in my youth, but even looking back I don't know why.
I was born into a single mother home who had to basically work two jobs to barely provide for me, my father was a deadbeat
that the government wasn't too concerned about chasing down for child support etc., and as a nation the U.S.A. does its best to keep the poor
from having any sort of upward mobility or even just normal quality of life that should be expected.

I just count myself lucky that the USA is still better than a large of number of countries, so I was privileged to be born there, among other things.
Also, grateful that I ended up living in Florida (was born in Kentucky) which allowed me to go to university basically debt-free without having to join the military or something.

Prophaniti said:

So a British swat team doesn't break your door down. Or whatever the UK has instead of swat. Like, top hat wearing soccer hooligans with blue face paint riding those bikes with the one big wheel and then one small wheel.

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I think you let your imagination run away with you.
What can they do? Break my door down and arrest me for my beliefs? Nothing would be more financially oppotunistic for me. The media would love that.
And thats the last thing this country wants me to have.

From Colombia, we said no to peace, we said no a new beginning. So 0 OP. But like with everything in here is an abusive relationship. I'm not proud but I love it? It's complicated.

I'm not a fan of nationalism, but having a healthy national identity (and pride in that) is no bad thing. You can love your community and the people you share a homeland and culture with without being a completed cock.

That said, legally I'm British, but I find the inextricable link between English and British national identity a bit distasteful, on account of being born and raised in Wales.

So I have less national pride, and more a sense of national alienation, because Britishness just doesn't entirely reflect my values or sense of national identity.

None.

Hm let's see...

Killed natives to take their land.
Stole people from their land to be made slaves.
Fought a war to keep people as slaves.
Murder people all over the world for 'reasons'.
Spread ideologies that exploit the poor.
Refuse to give aid or better living standards to your own citizens.
Elected Trump.

You'd have to be a pretty big piece of shit to be proud of this.

I have a regional pride, not so much national.

I'm glad i'm french, but not "proud" of it. But i'm proud of being breton. So there's that.

Breizhad on ha lorc'h ennon

There is reason to be at least a bit proud of The Netherlands (in terms of being progressive, humane and secular).
But there is also room for improvement.

I really think that being a fierce patriot is a scary thing.

Exactly zero, I used to and got swept up in the moment when watching national football/soccer team at a WM but to call that national pride would be a weird way of describing it.

Many people have a very unhealthy behaviour on that topic and it is downright unpleasant to talk about it with them in person, it's not far off from the justification of a cult or racism with some of them. I can accept the casual notion and don't think much about it, don't drag me into a "meaningful substancial" discussion about it tho or it turns ugly real quick.

I am Belgian. Patriotism is something we just don't know.

I only know the national anthem because one time one summer camp it was a game challenge to learn it by heart. If we didn't have beer, fries and chocolate, my pride would be absolutely 0

Oh, but when there is a football cup, my pride is 11 on a scale of 10

West civilisation has done a lot of things which i am proud of from ancient Greece to ancient Rome to now.

brainchild said:

I'd say being impoverished, being imprisoned, and being executed are not 'hardships' worth glossing over in favor of looking at the bigger picture. At that point, the difference in hardship between centuries ago and today become very difficult to discern. They're fucking travesties; cataclysmic events that reflect very poorly upon this country. You cannot experience these things and look at your country in the same way as those who have the privilege to glamorize our state of affairs based on long-term goals and lofty ideals, without ever having to worry about what they're going to eat or if they will live to see the next day.

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Firstly, let's assume I'm a minority. Can we proceed now, because mine is not a position exclusive to white privilege as you're insinuating. What would your approach and argument be if I were black? Do you think it's impossible for a minority to be proud of America? Genuinely curious.

Secondly, would you take the position it wasn't worth people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi to "gloss over" hardships for their cause? Neither of them did so, I'm not either, I'm only arguing hardships are subservient to the greater ideal that fights to rectify them. Both the above understood that the benefit the ideal would grant was far more of paramount importance than the hardship to the individual in the moment.

Finally, people were literal property centuries ago. Subjugated, sold, whipped, raped, tortured, murdered....incomprehensibly horrific treatment on a daily basis for years and years on end. As I've said numerous times now, there's still much room to improve, but I in no way believe today's America is even remotely the same as it was back then in terms of civil liberties for minorities. It's not difficult to discern in the slightest, unless you'd be content with living in America centuries ago as opposed to today? I'm highly doubtful you would.

None. I do not really empathize with the concept of being proud of something I had no part in.
I am thankful though about the environment I was born in. I'd say I'm pretty blessed relatively speaking on that. I never had to content with hunger, the system tends to my illness etc.

Absolutely 0, in the negative amounts if it is possible. I live in Trump's America unfortunately and the news gets worse every day. Supreme Court nominee wants ISPs to be able to censor the Internet as they see fit, arresting political opponents in thinly veiled setup, etc... I do have some local pride as a Texan, despite rural Texas being Trump country.

if you are going to take in national pride, you must accept all of it which includes also national shame.

the light and the dark are both in one. You cannot pick and chose then pretend that everything in the past was rosy or romantic. It mostly not.

even the smallest of nations also have dark pasts

brainchild said:

Exactly. I'm used to it, so I can't say that I'm too upset, but I'd be lying if I said that what he's saying isn't getting to me just a little bit.

Like, you would really have to lack perspective to think it's ok to tell someone who is effectively in survival mode on a day-to-day basis that they should just "look at the bigger picture" and not focus on their individual experience. Like, what in the actual fuck!

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I frankly find it a bit offensive that you downplay all the fighting and struggle that's occurred in the past to improve the situation for minorities. I think that struggle needs to be acknowledged and treasured. I don't mean to tell you that you're not justified in your feelings, and when I'm speaking about the bigger picture I'm explaining what makes ME proud to be an American. The struggle for greater ideals that this nation has fought for and won over time. I'm not meaning to discount your daily struggles or tell you how you should feel by stating this.

NightMarcher said:

I frankly find it a bit offensive that you downplay all the fighting and struggle that's occurred in the past to improve the situation for minorities. I think that struggle needs to be acknowledged and treasured. I don't mean to tell you that you're not justified in your feelings, and when I'm speaking about the bigger picture I'm explaining what makes ME proud to be an American. I'm not meaning to discount your daily struggles or tell you how you should feel by stating that I find the fight for the ideal to be more important than the hardship.

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Ok, but you do realize how that makes you look, right? I mean it's fine if you don't care, just sayin'.

None really.

I have double nationality, and I really don't care about national pride for neither.

brainchild said:

Ok, but you do realize how that makes you look, right? I mean it's fine if you don't care, just sayin'.

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I suspect but no, don't really care, because too many people on these boards seem incapable of removing the arguer from the argument. You didn't answer my question as to how you'd approach my argument if I were black.

Nope.

Very little. I'm really fond of both the cultural heritage of Spain and the one that's shared between all Spanish speaking countries, however.

NightMarcher said:

I suspect but no, don't really care, because too many people on these boards seem incapable of removing the arguer from the argument. You didn't answer my question as to how you'd approach my argument if I were black.

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You cannot remove the arguer from the argument, otherwise there would be no argument. Your perspective; your lived experience informs your reasoning for your argumentation. It is why we hardly ever hear these kinds of arguments coming from a person who has experienced the plight of being a black person in America.

Beyond a certain threshold of urgency, we humans have to prioritize what is important and valuable in life, for the sake of self-preservation. When one finds themselves in such an environment, they don't have the luxury of putting lofty ideals before their basic needs and rights.

There's nothing wrong with you being proud of our positive and noble accomplishments, but our country is not comprised of just the good things that we hope to accomplish. Our country is responsible for a lot of evil as well. Even if you cherry pick the good for the sake of your argument, by claiming to be proud of this country, you have no choice but to implicitly cosign on everything that defines the country; the good, the bad, and the ugly. Now that's fine if that's how you feel; you have that right. But by expressing yourself in the way that you have in this thread, you come across as a person who believes that the long-term idealistic future of our country is more important than the current welfare of our country's citizens, which is generally a view I find to be lacking in empathy and compassion.

None at all, really. I'm also from the UK and the amount of people I see do stupid things for the sake of "national pride" is staggering. Tribalism is barbaric and another tool to make people feel superior to others.

I'm not proud to be British and English. I was just born to English parents. It was pure fluke that I'm British and English, so can't really be proud.

However, I'm happy to be English and it's history runs through my family and identity. I love England, and the UK overall and would never be ashamed of it.

Yes, Brexit happened, which is an embarrassment. However I'm personally not ashamed to be British because of it. I voted remain and voted Liberal Democratics in the general election, just like millions of others in the nation.

From the U.K.

Germany - 0
Herkunft ist keine Leistung.

I did until 2016. Now it's gone. I have the means to gain another nationality, if my job ever goes, it's more likely than not I'll try to escape. (the longer my job stays the more savings I have and the easier it will be)

I'd love to see the fascists gone, but I don't think that pride will ever return.

I'm English. I've lived all around the UK and am 36. I love the places I've lived, rarely had trouble and see so many good people doing good things. In that sense I am proud to have live the life I have lived.

There are plenty of dickheads here but that's the same the world over. My problem with nationalism and national pride is that typically the people pushing it by force or wrapping up my years purely under the symbol of a flag virtually always have their own agenda.

The media in this country are predominantly garbage and the conceits of nationalism used in the Brexit campaign have brought out the worst in so many.

In my day to day life and the people I mix with though I'm proud to live here.

American.

There's a side of America I'm very proud of. The majority of people and culture we contribute. I'm proud to be in of the most relevant cities on earth. I love where I live and wouldn't have it for anything else. I will always be proud and represent my city, anything that further puts us on the map of contributions is exciting.

Then there's a shameful side that tarnishes our identity. Mainly political things that I don't have to elaborate on. So no, I wouldn't say I'm patriotic. I think people push it to a point where it becomes silly.

Kade said:

I like my country (Canada) but I don't use my citizenship to define my existence and identity.

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I'm Australian, and I feel the same way. I'm not at all the patriotic type.

Since Trump took the office none what so ever.

Very proud, people from the outside see brexit and our garbage press and make judgements. But living here you see alot of the real england, its peaceful and there are so many different people.

We've contributed to culture massively over the years and we have beautiful places to visit. If we were truly all brain dead cretins then we wouldnt have the most writers in the world, nor would we have created alot sport or have so many foreigners come to live here.

I'm proud of how far my country has come but we still have a long way to go