False rape/abuse claims are rare compared to actual abuse/rape victims. He is hyperboling shit and stuff like this hurts #metoo
At the least it was dumb shit to say at the most disgusting
Last edited:
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Henry Cavill: Hesitant to date in fear of being called a rapist
- Thread starter rude
- Start date
At the least it was dumb shit to say at the most disgusting
1. Not everyone is interested in girls ITT or on this forum. People still post like everyone else is a cis male...
2. No, we've not all had "that disgruntled girl", lol.
That poster isn't going to care, but you're very right.
I'm not saying I agree with him.
That's just how I interpreted it because let's be honest, I doubt Henry Cavill has an issue approaching women.
It's obvious what he meant, there are two main problems with his statement.
1. The chances of him being targeted by a random crazy who wants to ruin his life via false accusations are higher than the average person, but if you look up the statistics on these accusations you'll notice this is a stupid concern, even for a famous person.
2. His hyperbole "talk to a person, get accused of rape" hints at either disdain or tone-deafness to the #metoo movement, and it's simply dumb af.
I'm sorry for the generalization, of course I'm referring to the people who may find themselves in the situation Cavill is describing. English isn't my first language and I've just translated a figure of speech. I sure wish not everyone had crazed ex girlfriends or disgrunted lovers, but the point was: this stuff happens, it's not rare at all, Cavill's words are problematic because in his (perhaps understandably) more concerned perspective as a celebrity he's conflating this with the fight against rape and the #MeToo movement and one thing is not like the other.
Sorry mate, but it's super rare to be accused of sexual harassment. We've seen hundreds of accusations fly during #metoo, which spanned many years worth of time.
Place this next to every celebrity and every person dating right now on the earth, and the numbers are tiny in terms of your chances of being accused (probably even if you have done something).
It's even rarer still to be falsely accused.
Personally, I don't usually try anything with someone who works with me. It doesn't matter if she's my subordinate, my superior or my colleague. I just wouldn't want to make it look like anything in the relationship is related to rape or harassment, because it's certainly possible. I'm not saying she would accuse me, obviously, but it can be a bad look for the both of us. There are exceptions of course, but that's what keeping secrets is for.
But if I was an actor, I would be even more careful. It's easy for me to forget, but I'm not a public person. If I hooked up with a woman from my work, only 10 people would be interested to know, at most. As an actor, it's very easy to be targeted by rumors and say the wrong thing. Not only that, but the power relation that (superior-subordinate) is also applied to fans. You're exposing someone else as well in that case.
But if I was an actor, I would be even more careful. It's easy for me to forget, but I'm not a public person. If I hooked up with a woman from my work, only 10 people would be interested to know, at most. As an actor, it's very easy to be targeted by rumors and say the wrong thing. Not only that, but the power relation that (superior-subordinate) is also applied to fans. You're exposing someone else as well in that case.
they want to play the victim and want to paint all rape victims as liars, these are their tactics; death by a thousand cuts
easier to get away with it then, look at how well that works politically
I won't be surprised when the same people here start defending racism and trump with "white people get accused of racism for no reason" line of logic
And that's why his words are inappropriate.
He should be thinking "as rare as it may be, I'm not going to risk it because it's probably even a bigger risk for someone in my position", keep dating in Hollywood like every other celebrity and keep his mouth shut on the topic.
Being irrationally paranoid should be called out but isn't malicious. It's weird to say but I'd certainly be somewhat nervous about dating in today's climate because I'd be scared of doing something wrong (even if I know I wouldn't). I'm in a fantastic relationship with my S.O. but I understand those who would feel nervous.
I had severe anxiety already when I would go dates. I don't understand the debate in this thread. Nobody is trying to discredit victims of sexual abuse or harassment. This is a conversation of paranoia. What we SHOULD be talking about is how to make those people understand that this paranoia isn't rational. There is a way to do that calmly without making the person expressing their feelings feel like a piece of shit.
I had severe anxiety already when I would go dates. I don't understand the debate in this thread. Nobody is trying to discredit victims of sexual abuse or harassment. This is a conversation of paranoia. What we SHOULD be talking about is how to make those people understand that this paranoia isn't rational. There is a way to do that calmly without making the person expressing their feelings feel like a piece of shit.
Cis white males are a marginalized class in 2018.
Hearing this more and more....
The quote about privileged people equating equality with oppression rings more and more true.
So your words on "everyone has that crazy ex" are also pointless because:
1. Not everyone does.
2. "crazy ex" in this context is a far, FAR cry from "false accusation.
I think you're misunderstanding what I mean.
I'm saying that the problem with him conflating the uncertainity of dating and the shifting definition of romanticism with rape will hurt the #MeToo movement because a lot of people who had disgrunted lovers or crazy exes will sympathize with his main point and then possibly become more skeptical of rape or harrassment victims.
He starts with a fairly innocent, perhaps tone-deaf but kind of understandable point ("It's really hard to reconcile the traditional notion of romaticism we were brought up with and a strict application of no-is-no") and then he jumps to rape making everything problematic.
The word on thread title is literal quote of what Henry Cavill said.. without context its even belong as The Onion headlines. Its that ridiculous of how the quote sounds.
After adding the context of how its simply just justified worry et cetera like some of you said its still something that sounds shitty to say and came accross as tonedeaf with how he potrayed himself can became victim doing thing that he think as normal.
We stratch that too. Not bad sentiment at all just poor wording.. we still get a man that nearing 40 year old of age that seemingly had trouble to not resort to using crazy hyperbole and not sounds stupid.
Like this comment is just full of issue no matter what angle you try to excuse him for.
After adding the context of how its simply just justified worry et cetera like some of you said its still something that sounds shitty to say and came accross as tonedeaf with how he potrayed himself can became victim doing thing that he think as normal.
We stratch that too. Not bad sentiment at all just poor wording.. we still get a man that nearing 40 year old of age that seemingly had trouble to not resort to using crazy hyperbole and not sounds stupid.
Like this comment is just full of issue no matter what angle you try to excuse him for.
I never thought these .gifs would be used for these types of comments from Cavill, but they work so perfectly.
also...
also...
Actors aren't paid for their use of creating words, just reciting them with feeling!
I think I understand what he is saying but it is an awful way of putting it. He should've used sexual harasser instead of rapist.
He is talking about the days when woman played "hard to get" and you had to keep asking them until they said yes (which a lot of old movies peddled as the means to do things) as in they eventually come around to your charming nature. But nowadays if they say no and you keep pestering then you will be involved in sexual harassment and it is not charming.
So that's Henry's move, keep bugging them until they finally give in?
I think I understand what he is saying but it is an awful way of putting it. He should've used sexual harasser instead of rapist.
He is talking about the days when woman played "hard to get" and you had to keep asking them until they said yes (which a lot of old movies peddled as the means to do things) as in they eventually come around to your charming nature. But nowadays if they say no and you keep pestering then you will be involved in sexual harassment and it is not charming.
So that's Henry's move, keep bugging them until they finally give in?
Thank you for clarifying.
There was still a sympathetic edge to your posts, which while maybe more productive than my own, I cannot abide. The cis white male has had a great run, I can't lament for them regarding the long needed changes that are only just beginning to happen in a productive way.
So no while I can understand why a dinosaur is scared of the meteor, the meteor is required.
This mode of thinking needs to become extinct.
Man, I get a celebrity has to protect themselves bc their in the public eye but this is not at all a normal statement. Goes from "gotta be careful, shit is complicated" to "why is almost everything rape these days"
No. It's a shitty thing he said. The only way it makes sense is if you assume most women are lying and out to get you. This is misogyny. It's really that fucking simple. The way other men bend over backwards to rationalize this shit is just astounding
As an aside, rape isn't about necessity and famous, good-looking people can rape, too.
This is the same guy who in the same interview states his co-stars gets a little too familiar with the actresses and approaches them and tells them they are being creepy. Later on in the interview he clearly states he understands no means no.
Old school courtship could be seen as harassment, because it's foundation was built on never give up. His choice of wording was poor.
He seems like a good dude, just not too bright?
Old school courtship could be seen as harassment, because it's foundation was built on never give up. His choice of wording was poor.
Of course, i just don't see a guy who (hard to interpret from the interview) either approaches the guys on set and tell them they are being creepy or approaches the women to see if they are ok because said actor was being creepy.
He seems like a good dude, just not too bright?
Ok, a bit on the bolded, because I'm not american and maybe I'm unaware of the context: is it a know, accepted fact that cis black/asian males are more progressive in terms of respecting women or accepting LGBT instances? Just curious, I keep seeing this pop up and while I perfectly get the cis male part, the fact that it's associated with white makes me wonder if other cultures/ethnic groups have less problems with misoginy, homophobia and transphobia. Completely tangential so you can answer via PM too. Or maybe you meant cis hetero male?
On the rest, I agree that the meteor is required. Bad behaviours must become a thing in the past and if it has a cost it has to be paid.
The sympathetic edge comes from the fact that... I get the guy. I think he's been stupid but I get why he's been stupid. I would be ashamed of having said what he said but I don't put myself above ever having entertained the "Is this girl out to get me?" thought while dating. As a cis hetero guy I mainly interact/interacted (I'm married with children so I seriously hope I'm done with dating anyone but my wife, but still) with cis hetero women and I completely understand his confusion with the "no is no, but..." kind of attitude you often get from partners. As someone who's been threatened and slandered by exes and people I turned down, I kind of get his paranoia.
I also understand that this stuff is kind of irrelevant compared to the causes you could hurt by voicing your concern about your much less important problems. It's not about us. This is the time to keep your trap shut.
I meant hetro, yes, my bad.
As in cis white hetro males like him feel threatened by movements like #metoo because they feel discussion surrounding the toxic aspects of their own privilege is an attack, and that any form of re-balance is a theft.
This was probably worded very wrong, candidly af, but if he actually thinks this, literally, it's pretty bad. I think most women will give you signs to approach, but sometimes you can misinterpret and be wrong... You just have to feel it out and back off if someone isn't receptive, and not be a dick about it.
You support equality but those darn women are just waiting to take me to court because of a pick up line.
Yeah...no.
Point me to a single case where this has actually happened. I'll wait.
I am always amazed by the complete ineptitude of people who get interviewed... The fact that they simply do not THINK FIRST before opening their mouths has always fascinated me.
Yeah this is how I read his comments too. This classic, "traditional" idea of romanticism as chasing after women "playing hard to get" by "winning them over" is rooted in very strict gender norms and at its core is essentially one big power play asserting one's dominance in the relationship. It's not hard to see how you get little black books, Casanovas, stalking for love, and general predatory romance from this conception of romanticism. Breaking all of that down through simple concepts like "no means no" is important for the future of relationships.
He's using rapist as a hyperbole people. C'mon.
I understand his point of view. Some people are going nuts about this and it's hilarious.
This is harder if you're a celebrity.
I understand his point of view. Some people are going nuts about this and it's hilarious.
Last edited:
...What do you mean by that?
Conventionally attractive, wealthy, charming stars can rape, too. Now I'm obviously not saying Cavill is a rapist. But this idea that he "doesn't need to rape" due to his status or reputation or whatever, is a harmful narrative.
Let's assume he is:
This is not only tone deaf and dismissive of things like #metoo, but is also dangerous in breeding the kind of shitty incel like opinion that thinks this hyperbole is standard.
He should know better.
Do you think rich people need to steal?
They're still avoiding paying their taxes and putting their assets in fiscal paradizes.
Need is far from being a good explanation of anyone's behavior.
No, I would say that's not a power imbalance. He's just a hot guy.
Now if he's asking out people at work or that he might work with (not other powerful actresses, but lower workers) then yeah, that's an imbalance.
This post has me thinking we've still got a long fucking time to go before women get anywhere near equality.
"Yeah, some women may get harassed, but dammit I just wanna enjoy the chase in dating!"
Sure, I get the gist of what he's saying, and I'm glad he takes no for no. But this part is why he's getting pushback because it's precisely the kind of straw man that's gets used to gaslight women who might speak up about harassment.
Dude.
I don't expect actors to be the best examples in mastery of words and crafting thoughts into sentences. You can extrapolate the feeling without going literal about it. C'mon.
Aziz Anzari is not going to jail, and that's the feeling he's describing. Giving less rapey vibes than that story.
I had to say that against someone who was not talking as calmly or polite as you. They got me heated. Of course i understand that, my childhood favorite, #1 Dad Theo Huxtable ended up being a serial rapist. But if you read the entire interview, he comes across as a guy who defends against creeps on set. I understand what you're saying though and will be more careful of my wording in the future. Thank you.
When tell you who they are, believe them.
There is no reason to even think that he means anything else unless you want to hold him to a different standard than you would anyone else.
It's inline with his account of what he's saying.
No need to turn yourself into a pretzel to find him an out.
We don't search for reason to weasel a good angle on sexual harassers from Fox News, no reason to behave differently here.
And the post you quoted literally explains why it's a problem even if it's hyperbole.
Did you even read it?
What happened to Aziz Ansari was bullshit. But its like anti-vaxxers. You cant cling to the one article reinforcing your bias
What!? Please explain how Aziz was the one who suffered more than the woman in the story.
He's saying "I don't want to go up to girls I don't know and talk to them" not "i don't want to go up to girls and put my dick in their mouth." He doesn't sound like the smartes guy, he's an actor for christ's sake.
But being enraged by his fear of the public eye is unnecessary and proves his point. However dumb he might be, masses are goig to be offended by even mentioning the word.
Did you even read my answer?
I wont compare their suffering. She has every right to feel how she feels. Its been a while since I read those reports. But from what i got out of it was she became no longer attracted to him over the course of the night but felt pressured to stay.
Im saying grouping him with "sexual assaulters" is bs