-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
How much national pride do you have?
- Thread starter shaneo632
- Start date
I feel like this post intentionally ignores how black posters and other minorities have explained in great detail why they have no national pride for America.
But no, we blacks should be grateful we're not enslaved anymore. I mean we could be starving in Africa amirite?!
Sigh.
Great examples of historic appalling behaviour and the Churchill quote is quite jarring. And we shouldn't whitewash or pretend none of it happened.
But my point remains, we shouldn't feel guilty about being patriotic. These atrocities were driven by government or representatives of the government. The flag and national pride belongs to the people of now- our diverse multicultural peoples.
I mentioned in the WC thread the BBC reel on different cultures in UK getting behind England, being patriotic. Many different races who rightly considered themselves English and proudly flew the flag. That kind of made me feel proud.
Like I said, many countries have done shitty things that shouldn't be repeated or forgotten and should be learned from. But we can't be forever in history's shadow.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to change people's opinion of national pride; you have it or you don't (though I'm not a fan of declaring yourself an outright potential criminal because you hate your country so much!). I respect other people's right to not be waving their flag with pride :)
Last edited:
I am Black in America. Pride has been zero since birth with the exception of two days- Obama's election & The Woman's March after the Trump inauguration.
Lobbing disingenuous potshots is a common bait tactic by dishonest posters, so its always best to ignore them.
I only asked because this isn't the first time that particular post claimed to be a minority but then disappeared when pressed about it.
Their other post was "I grew up in a place where I was a minority." which usually means they are white but grew up in a neighborhood that was predominately non-white but the rest of the country is.
I tired of these "Well what if I'm or that?" nonsense hypotheticals.
I find it to be a weird concept altogether. I'm happy to be Finnish, living in Finland is mostly fine.
I'm happy if our hockey team does well, I'm happy if Finland or Finnish person is in the news in a positive light.
But proud? It's not my accomplishment, I didn't do anything. Being proud of just being born here is kind of weird.
I'm happy if our hockey team does well, I'm happy if Finland or Finnish person is in the news in a positive light.
But proud? It's not my accomplishment, I didn't do anything. Being proud of just being born here is kind of weird.
Lived experience doesn't inform reasoning, logic does. An argument can be distanced from the arguer through the utilization of facts, logic, and reasoning based on them. To pull identity into any debate is to hence make it unwinnable, for any metric can then be arbitrarily pulled at whatever time is convenient to dismiss another's points. It's why this tactic is commonly resorted to and is taught against in debate 101; it takes absolutely no effort whatsoever, is indefensible against, and is intellectually lazy. Sure, differing experiences in life will form opinions where facts that stand favorably to it are selected and reasoned with logic in argumentation against facts presented by those of different life experiences, but that's very different than predicating an argument solely on a broad demographical generalization ("You're white, therefor you position inherently has less merit than mine because I'm black!").
Me being proud of my country and you not stems from our identities and respective experiences from them, I'll grant that, but placing the ideal above the individual is a position that can be argued and defended by people of all creeds, races, religions, etc, with equal merit. Identity isn't relevant at all. The ideal over the individual has not only been argued by the disadvantaged, it's been practiced by them who you claim can not afford the luxury of higher idealism because they're simply trying to survive. Have you ever considered that the reason they strove for it was because they needed it to survive? That they were getting murdered and discriminated against anyway?
What keeps you from placing higher ideals above the need for self-preservation? You can fight for them while still surviving, one does not preclude the other. Because as is, you're fighting every day regardless aren't you? You bring up things like imprisonment and murder. Well that's what you're facing now, right? What are you so afraid of losing to wage a larger battle that you are not already in a desperate fight to keep in a much smaller one?
You're right. I do take into account everything this country is and has done when forming my opinion, but believe that the ideals it has fought for and attained in working to improve itself, in spite of old and remaining flaws, outweighs the bad. That's me looking back at centuries of history and the treatment of minorities contrasted to today, and that's not to ignore or belittle their treatment today. I've already stated numerous times there's much improvement to be had and have described and acknowledged some of the horrors of the past. That's not cherry picking. What is cherry picking is the second post that I initially replied to that led to your reply to me that painted America in a very one sided and negative light, describing nothing positive about this country whatsoever. I saw no attempt to lay credit when some most certainly is due.
And yes, I will always believe the ideal stands far above the individual. Many people in this world, the people that have truly changed it for the better, have seen and striven for long-term idealism at the expense of their own welfare and the welfare of those they were fighting to defend. I consider these people to be, at heart, amongst the most compassionate and empathetic ones to have ever existed.....all I'm doing is echoing the sentiment they abided by in their struggle.
Less every day.
There's a lot I love, but it's been overwhelmed by a combo of me becoming more aware, and the post-Trump unmasking of how horrible many people are.
There's a lot I love, but it's been overwhelmed by a combo of me becoming more aware, and the post-Trump unmasking of how horrible many people are.
As I've grown older, I think it's increased. I was quite angsty regarding my home country when younger and thought very little of it (US was the dream, but little did I know. And I put too much weight on wrong things, mainly popular media). I really didn't fully understand how good we have it here. And I do get giddy when we are noticed as we are a small country, it's fun to get in news and such (in positive manner). When it comes to sports, I mostly care about Hockey which is one of the few sports we are actually very good in (motorsports too, but I find it boring.) But not sure I would call it being proud of my nationality, it's more that I'm thankful for the priviledge of being born in Finland. And I do like to support and highlight local artists, products and companies etc. I'm also really interested in how others perceive us as people and a country. I usually despise people who literally wear their patriotism in their sleeves, I might be unfairly stereotyping such people but I just can't help it.
Last edited:
Oh, I don't even expect him to respond. He's said his passive-aggressive piece and that's all that matters to him.
He's not coming back to this thread.
A lot.
My parents were both immigrants and this country (England) has given them and their children untold opportunity.
Also has a pretty kick-ass history
My parents were both immigrants and this country (England) has given them and their children untold opportunity.
Also has a pretty kick-ass history
UK here. I haven't ever had national pride, but over the last few years I've come to dislike this country and a good portion of the idiots that live here.
I have to be honest, I'm simply tired of arguing with you about this. I don't care enough to rebut your statements point by point, so I'm just gonna drop this.
Maybe one of my other bruthas in here can engage with you, but I'm done. I have way too much shit going on in my life to argue with some rando on the internet about why life in America for a black person causes us to not have pride in America. You do you, boo.
Have a nice day.
User Banned (1 Week): Lecturing a PoC on privilege and tone policing regarding national pride, continuing behaviour through PMs.
I was about to write the same, actually. It's run its course. But thanks for the effort anyway.
Turkish. As border-based nationalism is the reason we're not a colony of several European countries after WW1, I used to be very proud of being a part of Turkey. As it is, though, knowing I'm living in a country that will always elect Erdoğan, my feelings have turned to disillusionment and almost outright spite. I don't feel proud of being a part of this country, nation or culture anymore.
Pride? Uh, I'm like really happy about some things, and not so much about other things.
I have pride in my family, and my work, and my faith. A country? Look, I'll just try my best to make sure the one I live in is the best version it can be. That's it.
I have pride in my family, and my work, and my faith. A country? Look, I'll just try my best to make sure the one I live in is the best version it can be. That's it.
No pride from this American. The more I find out how backwards and cruel this country is the more I get fed up with it. Trump was the last straw, because the country had one easy-ass job and still somehow managed to fuck it up just because a black man had been president directly prior. No forgiveness, nor forgetting.
I'm on holiday in Ibiza and there's a guy sitting in front of me with "British by Birth, British by the grace of god" tattooed on his back. I can't imagine ever being that proud of the place I just happened to be born on. Imagine being so arrogant that you felt like being British (or any nationality) was a gift to you from god.
I have next to zero national pride. It's kind of strange, since I grew up very proud to be an American, because I really didnt know any better, and we are indoctrinated from a very young age that we are the best.
Then, I grew up, traveled around the world, and realized, we get so very much wrong. The mighty dollar is all, even above human dignity. So many of the things we take such pride in are fine, but as a nation we lack empathy, and any true equal opportunity. Without those, we're nothing.
More and more, and I know it's not the same thing, I view nationalism as a disease. Its not healthy. Forcing kids to say the pledge of allegiance in school, standing for the national anthem before a baseball game, it all feels so meaningless.
Then, I grew up, traveled around the world, and realized, we get so very much wrong. The mighty dollar is all, even above human dignity. So many of the things we take such pride in are fine, but as a nation we lack empathy, and any true equal opportunity. Without those, we're nothing.
More and more, and I know it's not the same thing, I view nationalism as a disease. Its not healthy. Forcing kids to say the pledge of allegiance in school, standing for the national anthem before a baseball game, it all feels so meaningless.
UGH. It might as well be a giant billboard that says "I HAVE NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF"
I'm proud of the achievements of America. First man on the moon, the wright brothers, most scientific Nobel prize winners etc etc
Zero. If you're a black person who's proud in America I respect you, but I don't know how you do it.
People are so quick to tell you "But slavery was 200 years ago!" Nevermind the fact that the positive and negative ramifications of free labor reverberate into the present, people act as if Jim Crow wasn't a thing. The Tuskegee Experiments. As if the third verse of this fuck-ass anthem ya'll care so much about don't mention slavery in it. As if you didn't destroy every effort we had to try and build something. I'm not even a history buff, so that's a miniscule fraction of the shit done to us in the last 100 years.
People are so quick to tell you "But slavery was 200 years ago!" Nevermind the fact that the positive and negative ramifications of free labor reverberate into the present, people act as if Jim Crow wasn't a thing. The Tuskegee Experiments. As if the third verse of this fuck-ass anthem ya'll care so much about don't mention slavery in it. As if you didn't destroy every effort we had to try and build something. I'm not even a history buff, so that's a miniscule fraction of the shit done to us in the last 100 years.
I don't know about pride, but I'll own where I'm from. When I was younger I was embarrassed to be an immigrant from a country people couldn't point out on the map or they only knew about because of drugs. Oh, and they can't even spell the name correctly.
Zero. I don't understand why I, or anyone, would be proud of the country they were born in. Nationalism is inherently irrational to me.
