• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
OP
OP
hydrophilic attack
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
this is the statement released two days ago by game workers unite about this incident (bolded emphasis mine)
Last week, ArenaNet management fired two workers: one for responding defensively on Twitter to a non-industry community member who she perceived as explaining her job to her, and the other for defending her response.

It is important to understand the context in which women, people of color, and queer folks regularly exist while online, which is often a seemingly endless deluge of people commenting on, critiquing, and offering unsolicited advice on their craft. The game industry also has a well-documented history of predominantly women and marginalized workers being tormented into abandoning social media, driven out of their workplaces, and sometimes even forced to leave the industry altogether. Within this context it is grossly unfair to expect a veteran narrative designer like Jessica to be anything but defensive about these kinds of player and developer interactions.

Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

Even more startling was the firing of Peter Fries, who simply offered a polite, measured, and well-reasoned defense of his coworker. ArenaNet management's firing of Fries was not for the benefit of company culture or Guild Wars 2, their goal was to send a message to a vocal minority of players and to make a public example out of an employee.

ArenaNet's actions contribute to normalizing a work environment in which employees' personal social media accounts are monitored, where they are expected to perform PR for their company outside of working hours (with no compensation whatsoever, regardless of whether or not it is part of their job description) and where they can be arbitrarily fired with no warning.

Game Workers Unite stands with Jessica Price and Peter Fries, and emphatically denounces the actions of ArenaNet management.

The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.

If you are considering your online security in the aftermath of these events, we recommend consulting Crash Override's resource center for information on how to protect your social media activity.

We suggest everyone read this excellent Polygon interview with Jessica Price that goes into a great deal of depth on the situation from Jessica's perspective.

Game Workers Unite was founded out of a need to address the widespread unethical and unlawful workplace conditions in our industry. We are dedicated to building a better, safer industry for all of us. If you share our vision as well, consider joining Game Workers Unite.

In solidarity,
Game Workers Unite International
i haven't seen it posted elsewhere in the thread
 
OP
OP
hydrophilic attack
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
i added the game workers unite statement above to the opening post

today, they also released another statement about how arenanet's way of handling this issue has invited further harassment:
Game Workers Unite Condemns ArenaNet for Inciting Further Harassment of Their Employees
Until now, the discussion surrounding the ArenaNet firings of Jessica Price and Peter Fries has almost exclusively centered around why, how, and whether or not it was justified for ArenaNet to fire Jessica Price. Meanwhile, one of the most important questions has still not been asked or answered: why have ArenaNet and Mike O'Brien not condemned the ensuing harassment of Price, Fries, and countless other developers, journalists, streamers, and members of the games community?

The facts are clear: when ArenaNet fired two of its employees, a new wave of harassment was unleashed. All the while, ArenaNet has remained silent about this, seemingly content to watch their former employees and industry peers suffer.
To make things worse, not only has no attempt been made to address the harassment, ArenaNet president Mike O'Brien escalated it by characterizing Price's interactions as an "attack on the community," thereby painting a target on Price's back. Not content to merely fire Price and Fries and cut them off from the support system of the company, O'Brien's comment has encouraged further harassment of the pair by framing them as enemies of the community, implicitly validating the attacks that were already ongoing. As Price herself said on Twitter today, "the firing wasn't the punishment--the use of the mob was."

It is sobering to consider that if ArenaNet had chosen to say nothing, Price and Fries would have been better off than they are presently. This is not merely a case of workers losing their jobs and being abandoned by their studio. It is a case in which an employer has escalated and effectively encouraged further harassment of their former employees, through deliberate silence about the attacks suffered by their workers combined with an extraordinary choice of words in a public statement.

In 2018, only four years after Gamergate brought to light the severe harassment issues that our industry faces, there is no excuse for ArenaNet or O'Brien not to recognize the threats and challenges faced by game workers, nor for them to be unaware of the implications and consequences of their actions and statements. Already the mob is attempting to build on the momentum granted by O'Brien and have others in the industry fired for expressing their political and personal grievances on Twitter by masquerading as concerned consumers.
In an industry like ours, in which workers are forced to be constantly on guard about their personal security both on and offline, to release an incendiary statement like O'Brien's is to knowingly fan the flames of harassment, abuse, and violence, against not just one's own employees, but the rest of us as well.

We strongly denounce Mike O'Brien for his poorly conceived statement, as well as ArenaNet for their continued failure to condemn the hostile actions and behaviors of the worst parts of their community and the gaming community at large. We stand with Jessica Price, Peter Fries, and all of the other developers, journalists, streamers, and members of the community who have been harassed as a result of this event.

In solidarity,
Game Workers Unite International
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
He compliments her on the "thread", so he focusing on the very first post of her thread, which is not really about comparing both approaches, is about how she thinks one is better and proceeds to talk about the process of achieving the desired result of doing it that way, is already telling. Is like going to a panel about how someone works creating books on physical format, the panelist explains that he prefers them to digital books and goes into detail about the process of creating the covers, using the right kind of paper, etc... and at the end of the session someone gets up and ask him "why don't you work with digital books!? they are better".

Can we stop using analogies and just talk about what actually happened. It's not anything like what you described. I don't see how his calling the entire thread insightful and thanking her for it in any way means he's out of line for focusing on one of her assertions within it.

The problem is not that he just disagrees, is that he's inserting the debate (well is not really a debate, he singlehandly proclaims his idea is just better) when it wasn't the point of her own thread. BUT still, let's go that path for a moment: disagreeing needs to be accompanied of arguments, she already made the argument she feels dialogue choices aren't optimal and they don't work under her own philosophy, going "you should use branching options" is not disagreeing, is basically ignoring what she said. She said it dosn't work, Deroir didn't make the effort of rebatting the argument, he just parroted what he believes the team, and she should be doing, without a care of what she was saying, what was the thread about or her own process of writing a PC. It was disrespectful, unconsiderate and patronizing.

She actually said nothing in the thread about branching dialogue options, what are you talking about? Nothing at all. Just that when writing dialogue for a player-created character in an RPG, you can't define its personality or you risk alienating most players. The ArenaNet solution is apparently to make the dialogue so bland and banal that no one can take offense from it.

Of course her opinion is not absolute, and she makes it clear that is her opinion that branching dialogues dosn't work, but again that's not the point of her own thread: It was to show people the process of how she writes in GW2, the approach she took and how she faced the challenges and how she worked very hard to accomplish her objective. So going "hey have you tried this thing you said you feel it didn't worked" is absolutely disheartening and I would have feel the same way.

You may feel she didn't managed it or that you prefer "branching paths", but again, that wasn't the point, she didn't asked for his input and neither such halfassed one.

Where did she write about branching dialogue paths and why they don't work? I just re-read the thread and see nothing about that. In fact, the whole thing seems to assume that dialogue options are simply off the table (which they probably are from a cost perspective).
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
There are so many things being discussed here.
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed?
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining?
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable?
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments?
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired?
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock?
Personally I think that the only relevant questions are "Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments?" and the last one which seems to have created an interesting cultural divide. It seems that most folks in America are aware and accept that Price's actions would get her fired from most companies, while others are arguing that companies shouldn't have the right to fire her over comments on her personal feed.
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation
 

Kumquat

Member
Jan 23, 2018
781
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation

This matches my views exactly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
Probably also worth discussing the 24 hour employee. That sometimes it seems like some companies expect their workers to interact with the community, do AMAs and other engagement while off the clock.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation
This is where I'm at.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation
Also in full agreement.
 

Dizagaox

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
1,076
London
It is important to understand the context in which women, people of color, and queer folks regularly exist while online, which is often a seemingly endless deluge of people commenting on, critiquing, and offering unsolicited advice on their craft.
This is universal to absolutely everyone.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
This is universal to absolutely everyone.
Yeah I think so too, if you're a creator of sorts you will get people sharing advice or sometimes just shitting on your work. I regularly follow Easy Allies thread and people are constantly telling there how EZA should run their business, up to a point it gets frustrating for even me to read I admit (the crew reads and responds in the thread, so it's definitely intended for them to read too). But where minorities definitely get it worse is straight up hate and harassment which has nothing to do with commenting, critiquing or offering advice on their craft. What Deroir was "guilty" of was commenting on the work while sharing his opinion and not the nasty stuff which minorities especially have to deal with. And Price too has been victim of the nasty shit for atleast a year. Deroir has nothing to do with it, he didn't cause it.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
hydrophilic attack
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
they're putting in work! This was a good read. Thanks for keeping on top of the OP, btw, the links are much appreciated
just to be clear: most of the stuff in the OP was put in there by the mods, not me. don't want to take credit for that myself when it's not my work

i originally just made this thread for the parody piece in OP and now i added the statement from game workers unite

the rest of the material in the OP was added by mods
 

Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation

Pretty spot on.
 
OP
OP
hydrophilic attack
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
Last edited:

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,701
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? Yes. Any comment on professional work from non professionals is condescending outside of requested comments.
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? Yes, wrong time wrong place. It shows arrogance and cannot be taken out of the environment of harassment of women (andmen) just doing their jobs in the games industry.
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? She had already answered his question earlier in her feed, he felt the need to "explain" why he thought his way is better. Its like interrupting a presentation.
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? irrelevent. Everyone can have a hot take on a polarizing humans
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
I just can't get over the fact that we are at a point where if anyone criticizes your work there just has to be some sort of agenda attached to it rather than genuine criticism. This is sad how everyone is always so amped up nowadays. What a mess.

This is something I've thought about for a while but never had the capability to explain in a manner as concise and eloquent as you have. Thank you for speaking out on this.

Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation

My thoughts are the same.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
just to be clear: most of the stuff in the OP was put in there by the mods, not me. don't want to take credit for that myself when it's not my work

i originally just made this thread for the parody piece in OP and now i added the statement from game workers unite

the rest of the material in the OP was added by mods

I would recommend also adding this statement from the International Game Developers Association which goes into more detail about the labor-related issues at play and questions employees need to ask about social media and protection from harassment.
 

xch1n

Member
Oct 27, 2017
603
Unpopular take on this site, but it gets really annoying to hear randos on the internet tell you how to do things when your literal job is to spend every day thinking about them and finding ways to do them. Any one instance is innocent, but when you get 100s of them day after day, most less than polite, it gets really annoying. It seems like every game player with a twitter account thinks they can be a better designer/writer/programmer than the people who dedicate their careers to doing it, and it's really unfortunate that the straw that broke the camel's back was someone being not very rude about it.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Colombia
Deroir probably didn't think he was being condescending or rude, or that he was mansplaining, but his comments still were those things, and when he was called out by her, he exploded and it was he who played the victim card. I don't understand why she, a woman who has probably suffered of microaggressions such as this, has the obligation of educating people on this topic. This is like asking black people to educate and have patience with racists.

Unpopular take on this site, but it gets really annoying to hear randos on the internet tell you how to do things when your literal job is to spend every day thinking about them and finding ways to do them. Any one instance is innocent, but when you get 100s of them day after day, most less than polite, it gets really annoying. It seems like every game player with a twitter account thinks they can be a better designer/writer/programmer than the people who dedicate their careers to doing it, and it's really unfortunate that the straw that broke the camel's back was someone being not very rude about it.

It shouldn't even be unpopular. Take physicians for instance, are you gonna tell him how to do his job for which he or she studied for years, and you have at most read some things in Wikipedia? No, you aren't. Or at least you'd have the decency of trusting his or her experience and not annoy the hell out him or her.
 

Einherjer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Germany
Was the hate mob to get her fired made up of the regular gamergate/4chan folks?

No not at all.

Deroir probably didn't think he was being condescending or rude, or that he was mansplaining, but his comments still were those things, and when he was called out by her, he exploded and it was he who played the victim card. I don't understand why she, a woman who has probably suffered of microaggressions such as this, has the obligation of educating people on this topic. This is like asking black people to educate and have patience with racists.

Is this from an alternate reality or something like that? because that's absolutely not what happened in this timeline...
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
the next sentence starts with:

The continuation doesn't make sense. How we feel about Price's actions and how over the line they were informs where we land on what actions ArenaNet should have taken. Asking us to disregard what happened and land on the side of "no matter what she did, she shouldn't have gotten fired," is dubious logic.

I think the firing is possibly justified (though not Peter Fries'), but I also think keeping her on and disciplining her would have been justified as well. This is a situation where ultimately the company decided how much damage to their brand they believed she was doing. Of course, it certainly doesn't help that they have been having a PR situation here and there in the past year, having last landed in the news for their exploitative loot boxes in the gem store. In that respect, they probably acted more harshly believing it would win them back some community support. Whether it did or not I suppose we'll see.

It goes without saying that even if one believes she deserved to be fired, no one believes she deserves to be harassed. But it should also be noted that condemning the firing because of the ensuing harassment does not necessarily follow.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? Yes. Any comment on professional work from non professionals is condescending outside of requested comments.
I find this opinion baffling. Are game reviews condescending? When you talk about your thoughts on any sort of fiction is that condescending? If you explain why you don't like a fiction and think of ways you think it can be improved that's condescending? Are Youtube comments condescending? Are responses to this forum condescending?

Literally the point of social media is to share opinions and when you share your opinion on something you do you're going to get feedback in the forum of other people's opinion on both the subject at hand and their opinion on your opinion. Were the people who responded to the threat 100% positively condescending? This is just a nonsensical position to take.

Literally everyone get's feedback on the things they publish no matter where and what they publish whether it's likes, retweets, subscribers, sales numbers, or comments. What you want is for comments to be positive or constructive and friendly which Deroir absolutely was. Not hostile or harassment.

Also, all the questions I asked in this post are rhetorical. I'm not soliciting your feedback on this. You can respond, but keep in mind I never asked for a response.

Was the hate mob to get her fired made up of the regular gamergate/4chan folks?

I think once it hit r/gaming and r/all it probably was. But this was still the most discussed topic of all time on GW2's official forums, which have a paywall and aren't as easily manipulated by botting and multiple accounts.
 

Massicot

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,232
United States
Deroir probably didn't think he was being condescending or rude, or that he was mansplaining, but his comments still were those things, and when he was called out by her, he exploded and it was he who played the victim card. I don't understand why she, a woman who has probably suffered of microaggressions such as this, has the obligation of educating people on this topic. This is like asking black people to educate and have patience with racists.

He didn't explode. At worst, he got passive aggressive after being quote tweeted and called an asshat.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,663
Deroir probably didn't think he was being condescending or rude, or that he was mansplaining, but his comments still were those things, and when he was called out by her, he exploded and it was he who played the victim card. I don't understand why she, a woman who has probably suffered of microaggressions such as this, has the obligation of educating people on this topic. This is like asking black people to educate and have patience with racists.

I mean, he didn't explode? He literally backed away the chance he got and apologized. Mind you, before the first chance he could respond, she posted a few tweets accusing him of trying to tell her how to do her job and then calling him a 'rando asshat'. Then he responded asking why she was getting angry with him and then apologized, after which in his next tweet he back out of the conversation instead of getting further involved.

I think there's a misconception of the timeline of things due to her calling him out in a different twitter thread but him replying to the original thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
"Explode" was an inaccurate word probably. But her first tweet to Deroir did not have "asshat", it was after he got passive aggressive.
No. That is not the correct timeline of events. She said both "My dude" and "Asshat" came before Deroir responded with to her. Most of the timelines you see are wrong.

It shouldn't even be unpopular. Take physicians for instance, are you gonna tell him how to do his job for which he or she studied for years, and you have at most read some things in Wikipedia? No, you aren't. Or at least you'd have the decency of trusting his or her experience and not annoy the hell out him or her.
If the treatment isn't perfect, then yes I'm going to tell the doctor the treatment wasn't perfect and what the problems still are.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Colombia
No. That is not the correct timeline of events. She said both "My dude" and "Asshat" came before Deroir responded with to her. Most of the timelines you see are wrong.
Oh alright. Remembered the timeline wrong.

Still, I put myself in her shoes, and I feel I'd be pretty blasé of having to deal with stuff like this on a daily basis, to the point I might slip and call someone out.

If the treatment isn't perfect, then yes I'm going to tell the doctor the treatment wasn't perfect and what the problems still are.

Hold on, that's different. Are you going to tell the physician on your first visit that the treatment you haven't yet received isn't perfect and that you're having problems? Because that's different from receiving the treatment and not getting better from it. Because in one you have clearly not even given the chance to trust the physician and in another you did.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Unpopular take on this site, but it gets really annoying to hear randos on the internet tell you how to do things when your literal job is to spend every day thinking about them and finding ways to do them. Any one instance is innocent, but when you get 100s of them day after day, most less than polite, it gets really annoying. It seems like every game player with a twitter account thinks they can be a better designer/writer/programmer than the people who dedicate their careers to doing it, and it's really unfortunate that the straw that broke the camel's back was someone being not very rude about it.

This perspective is baffling to me.

If you get easily frustrated by unsolicited feedback, why are you on social media? No, this is not victim blaming. The whole point of social media, and especially Twitter, is that everyone joins the conversation and voices their opinion. It gives everyone a voice on an ostensibly equal playing field, but no one is required to participate.

Don't expect that people know what you're going through. You call them "randos" rather than look at them as individuals with their own set of experiences and thoughts on things and yet somehow expect people to know everything you're experiencing. Arrogance and a sense of self-importance if you ask me.

Finally, just because you do something professionally does not mean you are entitled to be free of criticism or suggestions for improvement. It also doesn't mean your solutions are the best and that "randos" have nothing to offer. Plenty of "randos" got their start as passionate fans of a game and turned into game designers down the road (Jeff Kaplan and Alex Afrasiabi of Blizzard are two prominent examples that immediately come to mind). Implying that their feedback is meaningless or without value simply because they are not actively being paid for it is nonsense to me.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Anyone claiming GamerGate has no involvement here is either hopeless naive, or a GamerGater runniing the ol' "wasn't me" script. It'd be great if the administration here didn't allow the second one to be done, but for a forum founded around the concept of believing woman that have been harassed, it sure seems to have turned it's back on them already and now you have to carefully manage what you say along the lines of the ol "Republicans buy shoes too" shlock. Interesting how in women's issues threads, the women here have to fucking do everything themselves with a bunch of men telling them something isn't happening, with no help from the administration, and the result is Era is losing multiple long time women posters every week because they are fucking tired of having to "careful" with their honesty and viewpoints so that it doesn't hurt the feelings of Era's ad clickers.
Scathing, and really sad if true. (I haven't been participating in a lot of hot button threads. I think YouKnowWhere taught me that was for the best.)
 

Draconis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
568
yeah but there is a difference between posting your not requested comments on a separate forum and posting them directly in someone's personal social media feed


As others have said before. If it was wanted to be kept as a private matter then her Twitter account should have been made private.

She is not the only soul on this earth to face repurcussions from their actions on Social Media and she will not be the last, I assure you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Here is my personal feeling on these points:
  • Were Deroir's comments condescending or rude? No
  • Was it wrong for Deroir to comment on Price's feed? No
  • Were Deroir's comments sexist or mansplaining? No
  • Were Price's comments on TotalBiscuit's death acceptable? No
  • Did Price deserve to be fired for her comments? No, but a warning to cease being hostile to customers would have been in order. Repeat offense, fire her
  • Did Fries deserve to be fired? No
  • Should companies be allowed to fire employees based on how they act to customers on social media, off the clock? Yes of course, you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation. But being allowed to fire employees does not mean you have to - depends on the situation
Point for point exactly where I am.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Deroir probably didn't think he was being condescending or rude, or that he was mansplaining, but his comments still were those things, and when he was called out by her, he exploded and it was he who played the victim card. I don't understand why she, a woman who has probably suffered of microaggressions such as this, has the obligation of educating people on this topic. This is like asking black people to educate and have patience with racists.

You call this "exploding?" Remember this is the next day after he made those comments and in response to having his tweet held up to all of Price's followers as an example of misogyny.

---

Deroir:
You getting mad at my obvious attempt at creating dialogue and discussion with you, instead of just replying that I am wrong or otherwise correct me in my false assumptions, is really just disheartening for me. You do you though. I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it.

---

Seriously, though, this is an example of someone having "exploded" to you?
 

Massicot

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,232
United States
Jessica's reply to Deroir ('my dude'), Quote Tweet ('as a female game dev'), and 'asshat' posts were all before Deroir responded at all. Just hoping that this is clear. You can still make whatever argument you support but she escalated it twice before he got 'passive aggressive'.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Colombia
You call this "exploding?" Remember this is the next day after he made those comments and in response to having his tweet held up to all of Price's followers as an example of misogyny.

---

Deroir:
You getting mad at my obvious attempt at creating dialogue and discussion with you, instead of just replying that I am wrong or otherwise correct me in my false assumptions, is really just disheartening for me. You do you though. I'm sorry if it offended. I'll leave you to it.

---

Seriously, though, this is an example of someone having "exploded" to you?
Read my other post where I said it was an inaccurate word, no need to waste any more time on that.

No, she made three tweets at him before he even responded. The first was the passive aggressive 9_9 one, then she publicly called him out on her main feed which basically send all her followers after him, and then she added that he's a rando asshat. All of that happened before he "exploded" by being a little passive aggressive, apologizing and backing out.

I already posted I had the wrong timeline in my head. But thanks nonetheless.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,320
"Explode" was an inaccurate word probably. But her first tweet to Deroir did not have "asshat", it was after he got passive aggressive.
No, she made three tweets at him before he even responded. The first was the passive aggressive 9_9 one, then she publicly called him out on her main feed which basically send all her followers after him, and then she added that he's a rando asshat. All of that happened before he "exploded" by being a little passive aggressive, apologizing and backing out.
 

Khalme

Member
Feb 5, 2018
201
I think it's different when you're having that discussion among non professionals versus directly responding to someone's personal account.
Then professionals should not post work related content on platforms like twitter if they do not expect comments and or feedback. They should use blogs with comments disabled.

Especially if their social media profile show the name of their employer, and already has multiple posts featuring said work related content.

And even more if their twitter thread is a follow up of an AMA (Ask me Anything) session. Feedback and comments are expected, that's the whole point of the platform.

If you talk about your work on an open public platform like twitter, people interested in that work will interact with you.
 

Scubamonk

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,409
Then professionals should not post work related content on platforms like twitter if they do not expect comments and or feedback. They should use blogs with comments disabled.

Especially if their social media profile show the name of their employer, and already has multiple posts featuring said work related content.

And even more if their twitter thread is a follow up of an AMA (Ask me Anything) session. Feedback and comments are expected, that's the whole point of the platform.

If you talk about your work on an open public platform like twitter, people interested in that work will interact with you.
This is where I'm at. If you don't want unsolicited feedback, don't use platforms that exist primarily for the purpose of unsolicited feedback.
 

Tirisfal

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
939
London
User Banned (1 Week) Inflammatory Drive-by Posting + Accumulated Infractions
Checked up a bit more on her with some of these tweets...

Yeah, shes a disgusting human being.