Oh come on... Damn I saw some of HiddenXperia's content since he's a prominent Lore guy... Well shit.
At least I only saw some.
Can't lie, I hope the other big Halo lore guy doesn't share the same opinion. :(
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Why is Gamergate support still so prevalent in gaming communities?
- Thread starter Cranster
- Start date
Oh come on... Damn I saw some of HiddenXperia's content since he's a prominent Lore guy... Well shit.
At least I only saw some.
Can't lie, I hope the other big Halo lore guy doesn't share the same opinion. :(
1. Because lots of people, including gamers, are horrible racists/mysogynists etc
2. Because other people didn't really pay much attention, so heard a distorted version
3. Because saying "gamers" are horrible people and then effectively saying you're either with us or against us is a good way to get people who consider themselves gamers against you
2. Because other people didn't really pay much attention, so heard a distorted version
3. Because saying "gamers" are horrible people and then effectively saying you're either with us or against us is a good way to get people who consider themselves gamers against you
It's gaming's conspiracy theory faction.
I really feel bad for the kids who grew up with this shit. In their own minds it was like they got to be the rebel alliance of videogames against the corporate overlords of gaming journalism.... which is a little bit like believing you're in a freedom fight against Entertainment Weekly, but kids are fools.
Shame on anyone over 16 who was caught up by this drivel.
I really feel bad for the kids who grew up with this shit. In their own minds it was like they got to be the rebel alliance of videogames against the corporate overlords of gaming journalism.... which is a little bit like believing you're in a freedom fight against Entertainment Weekly, but kids are fools.
Shame on anyone over 16 who was caught up by this drivel.
I couldn't really tell you as I don't visit such communities, so I don't know what specifically makes them tick. But generally, there's a lot of assholes around and many of them unfortunaly have internet connections. Many people want to belong in a group and feel kinship. Lies are being still spread which people are buying, since they couldn't care to actually look stuff up.
Edit: Also "because gaming culture (and nerd culture) for the most part is just a giant cesspool of toxicity." as DOT_mjo said.
Edit: Also "because gaming culture (and nerd culture) for the most part is just a giant cesspool of toxicity." as DOT_mjo said.
That's skewing what was actually said a bit quite honestly. Not that I would agree with the actual sentiment either, but you are being inaccurate.
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i literally havent heard anything about gamergate for what feels like an entire year until this thread
i mean we aren't going to see any of them around here, they're bound to get banned for even hinting at being a supporter
i mean we aren't going to see any of them around here, they're bound to get banned for even hinting at being a supporter
We will see this everywhere, not just in video games. This isn't going away in a year or two, not unless there will strong action against far-right thinking and soon.
People smarter than me have written long explanations of the connection between gaming culture, white male fragility, Gamergate, 4chan, the alt-right, and Trump, so I'll just sum it up briefly:
1. Video games have traditionally been presented as a "male" hobby. Young girls are dissuaded, by culture, their parents, and male gamers, from playing video games. Many women do end up playing games, but they aren't the hardcore types who populate gaming forums
2. As a result, online gaming communities end up being overwhelmingly, or even entirely, male
3. In the late 90s and early 2000s, various politicians sought to ban or restrict violent video games. The gaming community and gaming media unanimously condemned these efforts and were, seemingly, on the same side for many years
4. Young men who play enormous amounts of video games lack the social skills to make friends or meet women in real life as they enter their teens. Severely socially stunted, they retreat into their online, male-only communities, becoming angry and resentful at women
This is where it ended, for the most part, until 2012-2014, when the following things happened:
4. Social justice issues became more a more prominent focus of the gaming industry. The harassment wave aimed at Anita Sarkeesian ended up being condemned by a number of gaming media sites (though not nearly enough), leaving many male gamers with the impression that the media that previously aided them in their war against Jack Thompson had since been infiltrated or co-opted by the feminists who supposedly want to destroy video games as he did
5. 4chan's /pol/ board was created and almost immediately became a recruiting ground for white supremacist and men's rights extremist groups, who spread their ideas to unmoderated gaming communities across the internet
6. The Zoe Quinn incident that incited Gamergate was, again, condemned by (most of) the gaming media. The far-right, who had spent decades sowing distrust of the media, encouraged the gaming community to revolt, saying "This is what we've been telling you for years -- they're liberally biased and hate white men"
7. Gamergate was roundly criticized from across the gaming and real-world media and largely failed to succeed in its goals. As a result, its members became further jaded and radicalized, getting hooked into further racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, and other hallmarks of what would become known as the alt-right
8. Trump shows up. The alt-right and 4chan immediately begin to support him
9. Apocalypse happens
1. Video games have traditionally been presented as a "male" hobby. Young girls are dissuaded, by culture, their parents, and male gamers, from playing video games. Many women do end up playing games, but they aren't the hardcore types who populate gaming forums
2. As a result, online gaming communities end up being overwhelmingly, or even entirely, male
3. In the late 90s and early 2000s, various politicians sought to ban or restrict violent video games. The gaming community and gaming media unanimously condemned these efforts and were, seemingly, on the same side for many years
4. Young men who play enormous amounts of video games lack the social skills to make friends or meet women in real life as they enter their teens. Severely socially stunted, they retreat into their online, male-only communities, becoming angry and resentful at women
This is where it ended, for the most part, until 2012-2014, when the following things happened:
4. Social justice issues became more a more prominent focus of the gaming industry. The harassment wave aimed at Anita Sarkeesian ended up being condemned by a number of gaming media sites (though not nearly enough), leaving many male gamers with the impression that the media that previously aided them in their war against Jack Thompson had since been infiltrated or co-opted by the feminists who supposedly want to destroy video games as he did
5. 4chan's /pol/ board was created and almost immediately became a recruiting ground for white supremacist and men's rights extremist groups, who spread their ideas to unmoderated gaming communities across the internet
6. The Zoe Quinn incident that incited Gamergate was, again, condemned by (most of) the gaming media. The far-right, who had spent decades sowing distrust of the media, encouraged the gaming community to revolt, saying "This is what we've been telling you for years -- they're liberally biased and hate white men"
7. Gamergate was roundly criticized from across the gaming and real-world media and largely failed to succeed in its goals. As a result, its members became further jaded and radicalized, getting hooked into further racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, and other hallmarks of what would become known as the alt-right
8. Trump shows up. The alt-right and 4chan immediately begin to support him
9. Apocalypse happens
It's sad that Boogie1488 turned out to be worse than his Francis character.
Fair.
So lets skew for the other angle
"blaming Anita for ANYTHING that happened to her or any other women"
Still being pro gamergate
What if some people do care for what they care about, and mistakenly consider that GG is on their side?
Because it's an incredibly convenient and feel-good about yourself way to be a horrible person. You can't be a straight-up shitnugget nowadays, not in the wide open. You have to at least try to appear reasonable - and that is what gamergate does: a bunch of fuckknobs genuinely believing that they are not vile + those who know they are, but still need that sweet-sweet sense of belonging and power.
Games are (and perhaps more importantly were) a shelter for 'failed' boys and men: escapist fantasy, simulation of accomplishment, scads of affirming (to them) female representations, etc.
This can be relatively innocuous (people need an escape) but....
Alt-right is largely composed of angry men who feel their masculinity unfulfilled or threatened by failure to meet standards of masculinity, failure to perform in the workplace, failure to find a spouse, etc. who turn their self-loathing outwards rather than inwards. Any perceived loss of privilege is something actively being taken away from them rather than something being shared with a wider group of people because said privilege is their hope wrt performing as a man. Any rejection or failure in romance is evil women banning together, polluted by evil ideas promulgated by a hateful elite. Any perceived loss of media being always and only squarely aimed at them is their ego-assuaging crutches being taken away from them. Etc.
I share their failure, I don't share their response.
This can be relatively innocuous (people need an escape) but....
Alt-right is largely composed of angry men who feel their masculinity unfulfilled or threatened by failure to meet standards of masculinity, failure to perform in the workplace, failure to find a spouse, etc. who turn their self-loathing outwards rather than inwards. Any perceived loss of privilege is something actively being taken away from them rather than something being shared with a wider group of people because said privilege is their hope wrt performing as a man. Any rejection or failure in romance is evil women banning together, polluted by evil ideas promulgated by a hateful elite. Any perceived loss of media being always and only squarely aimed at them is their ego-assuaging crutches being taken away from them. Etc.
I share their failure, I don't share their response.
Hello, my name is Dr. Mecha Suplex Ph.D Esq.
As you can see from my science chart here:
The decrease in swirlies have had a direct correlation with the amount of insufferable dipshits who rally around cartoon redheads.
My data is clear. The solution is obvious.
As you can see from my science chart here:
The decrease in swirlies have had a direct correlation with the amount of insufferable dipshits who rally around cartoon redheads.
My data is clear. The solution is obvious.
Honestly I was kinda happy when the Gamergate thing died down, not because I support or don't support a position but because I could never understand what it was all about.
I would ask ten different people what it was about and it felt like I would get ten different answers. Normally when its _____-gate kind of controversy the mistake that was made to create the controversy can be described in a single sentence, but gamer gate is like five different exclusive (sometimes mutually) concepts all trying to speak through the megaphone at the same time. I would kill for a wikipedia-style single paragraph that can explain what Gamergate is, especially where the margins of the controversy are and what the core of it is.
I would ask ten different people what it was about and it felt like I would get ten different answers. Normally when its _____-gate kind of controversy the mistake that was made to create the controversy can be described in a single sentence, but gamer gate is like five different exclusive (sometimes mutually) concepts all trying to speak through the megaphone at the same time. I would kill for a wikipedia-style single paragraph that can explain what Gamergate is, especially where the margins of the controversy are and what the core of it is.
One side of the issue is afraid that their once-niche hobby is as mainstream as ever, and losing its "secret club" status.
The other side of the issue is resentful that their hobby isn't seen as an artistic, impactful medium on the same level as film, literature and TV.
The other side of the issue is resentful that their hobby isn't seen as an artistic, impactful medium on the same level as film, literature and TV.
I've never spoken to a Gamergater who is aware of actual "collusion in the gaming industry" issues like Jeff Gerstmann getting fired from Gamespot for panning a sponsor's game.
It's all conspiracy theory bullshit about keeping feminism out of games. Total nonsense having no bearing on reality except in its function as an instrument of right-wing culture war.
To be fair a whole lot of people actually believe it was about 'ethics in journalism' because they never looked into it any farther than that. It struck a chord with them, the whole 'press is too chummy with developers' thing made sense to them and that was all they needed - they don't trust reviews, they think impressions are bought, and they missed the whole underbelly of the movement being about harassing women out of games.
Anyone that looked into it at all and still supports it is just a waste of time to talk to or about. You're not going to change their minds, they want to 'take back' gaming and they don't really see the devs and gamers that get abused as being either a real thing - remember that they brought the whole 'fake news' aspect of 'don't trust the press' into this too - or something worth caring about.
Anyone that looked into it at all and still supports it is just a waste of time to talk to or about. You're not going to change their minds, they want to 'take back' gaming and they don't really see the devs and gamers that get abused as being either a real thing - remember that they brought the whole 'fake news' aspect of 'don't trust the press' into this too - or something worth caring about.
Yeah that's probably accurate, I don't know and really don't care about Boogie so much that I would want to get to the bottom of this. But he's spineless and bit of a fool, that I know for sure. He's one of those voices who should be condemning GG but is too cowardly.
I mean those casual people who "against censorship" from comments on gaming news site sections, so they quickly go "support gg" without researching.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY62dhVThbeegLPpvQlR4CjF
I haven't watched it, but his channel has done a solid job covering the alt-right.
And then this happened
https://www.cgmagonline.com/2014/11/20/gamergate-documentary-makers-recruit-jack-thompson/
Because it has nothing to do with protecting videogames and everything to do with hating on women
I think this will help. Not really sure but I enjoyed it. Its Part 1 of a series.
Yup. The entire community including consumers, journalists, developers, and publishers all failed to adequately address and rebuke gamergate.
Gamers are also among the most entitled, myopic, and selfish "fans" in all of consumer culture.
Yeah, I think this is important. These people have been a huge part of gaming since forever, GG was just a period where a larger public became aware of such people.
It's worth keeping this in mind when people say GG is dead. These people aren't suddenly gone.
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Because "culture war" is a real thing, and it is amplified by two equally powerful actors: paid disruption groups (ie Russian ops in 2016), and bored, disenfranchised youth. Look into Chanology's battles against Scientology to understand the etymology of how these sorts of online ops began, and then look at the story of Kathy Sierra being badgered relentlessly by online mobs all the way back in 2007: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/
Some players in these efforts are entirely disingenuous, and even politically motivated. Others are bored kids who get indoctrinated in the same ways that insecure gang and cult leaders have bolstered their ranks for decades. The root of it all is a strange and sad humanity that is hard to make sense of, because that's usually left to the harassed and abused victims--who should NOT be responsible for undoing painful online assholery. Thus, I encourage you to TAKE A STAND when you see aggressive, dehumanizing idiocy and appeal to decency, especially if you have the bandwidth to do so.
The teenager you save today may be the world-changer of tomorrow's online society.
Some players in these efforts are entirely disingenuous, and even politically motivated. Others are bored kids who get indoctrinated in the same ways that insecure gang and cult leaders have bolstered their ranks for decades. The root of it all is a strange and sad humanity that is hard to make sense of, because that's usually left to the harassed and abused victims--who should NOT be responsible for undoing painful online assholery. Thus, I encourage you to TAKE A STAND when you see aggressive, dehumanizing idiocy and appeal to decency, especially if you have the bandwidth to do so.
The teenager you save today may be the world-changer of tomorrow's online society.
I feel they should do it more quite honestly, there's a lot of shit that goes pretty much unchecked. Media doesn't involve themselves and game companies are afraid of losing profits. I've read the original "Gamers are dead" article by Leigh Alexander, it was quite decent.
You don't often get a concerted effort to show these people the door. If you started seeing more communities forcibly eject these types, they'd stop spreading their shit, and they'd stop finding new converts. There was this great piece about how the FGC handled it and why as a result it's way less homophobic/racist than most other gaming communities (tho of course it's still got its issues).
The thing that gets to me is how I see a lot of people saying "it was originally about ethics but got hijacked" or some variation. From the very beginning, it was some bitter dude accusing his ex of sleeping with journalists for reviews, which is effortlessly disproven because said reviews don't even exist. And then people used it as an excuse to yell at Anita Sarkeesian because she got a thing wrong in Hitman.
Remember around half of the votes went to Trump and Brexit. (and for sure I've seen prejudice in other countries) I am in general very pessimistic about humans.
I'm not surprised ignorant/hateful views are fairly prevalent in any subgroup that isn't directly selecting for inclusiveness, and if anything gaming attracts more "dude bros".
I'm not surprised ignorant/hateful views are fairly prevalent in any subgroup that isn't directly selecting for inclusiveness, and if anything gaming attracts more "dude bros".
Haven't followed it that much but also didn't get the impression something really has changed unfortunately?
because gaming culture (and nerd culture) for the most part is just a giant cesspool of toxicity.
Basically deplatforming is needed, no? Within communities. And then hopefully within sites or service provides. Unfortunately big platforms like Reddit or Facebook don't do that, not enough.
Some will consider this a weird take, but I partially blame the shift of video games towards shooters/hyper masculinity in the last decade plus. A lot of gaming used to be a pretty oblique hobby, with very colorful aesthetics. But over time the "brown grey" "hardcore gamer" trend swallowed up the entire industry, and it created an environment where toxic masculinity could fester.
I was gonna say it doesn't surprise me at all that these kind of people have prominence in Halo communities. The fanbase is the worst part of Halo by far in many of the same ways as Star Wars. Except instead of putting out some embarrassing call to raise $200 million to remake a Star Wars movie they just stole the assets from Microsoft and stitched together an actual game. And Microsoft was even cool with it in the end.
OP
OP
Yup, TheActMan had a whole series aboyt how SJW's are supposedly ruining gaming and should expect harassment for constructive criticism.