-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
BREXIT |OT| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter theaface
- Start date
- Status
May's been handed a real opportunity to distance herself from the crazies in her party and come back from the edge with these Trump comments.
I bet she'd find a lot more support in parliament for the negotiations if she leaned away from Trump/Boris and stopped treating this like a Tory civil war.
It's clear they don't have the support to get rid of her because if they were going to do it they would've done it by now. The brexit deadline is too close and nobody wants to get in the way of it so what does it matter? She's gone after this anyway so there's nothing to lose.
I bet she'd find a lot more support in parliament for the negotiations if she leaned away from Trump/Boris and stopped treating this like a Tory civil war.
It's clear they don't have the support to get rid of her because if they were going to do it they would've done it by now. The brexit deadline is too close and nobody wants to get in the way of it so what does it matter? She's gone after this anyway so there's nothing to lose.
If she moves away from Trump the entire 'upside' to Brexit is dead instantly. Global Britain? Dead. Dead dead dead dead.
The trade deal with the US is the one thing that all the Tories want to be able to point to as proof they can do the job post Brexit. If that's gone then they're utterly fucked.
The trade deal with the US is the one thing that all the Tories want to be able to point to as proof they can do the job post Brexit. If that's gone then they're utterly fucked.
No deal with the US or no deal with the EU. A racist and nationalist state who will fuck their allies or your closest neighbor of 27 members.
That in a thread about Brexit where it is claimed that Labour should be doing 'something' to be beating the Tories due to their handling of Brexit anti-semitism is very much a secondary and almost unrelated issue.
APZonerunner If you want Corbyn to step down it is sort of required to say who you want to replace him. Otherwise it comes across as usual anti-Corbyn bashing which you go on to do anyway.
Asking Corbyn to step aside for Dan "Ex-soldier" Jarvis or Chuka Umunna is laughable. If the idea of cancelling Brexit was so popular why are the Lib Dems doing so very badly in the polls. Why aren't they getting the 48%? This is just mindless griping and Corbyn bashing by insinuating that Labour should be further ahead in the polls than they already are.
Gotta be honest, I'm not exactly jumping for joy at a mere two point lead considering the shit show Labour is up against. It took high profile government resignations to get that two point lead, as well. Is this the sort of whack ass victory we're taking as a big seismic shift now? Christ alive. Yes, I think somebody more centrist with wider appeal would do better.
Gross.
As has been stated many times before, the Libs don't make gains because of all their baggage, tarnished reputation, and a FPTP system that punishes voting for smaller parties. It's almost as if there's a context to this "cancel Brexit -> gain/don't gain 48% of electorate" path.
Why is it mindless? Why is it "bashing"? The Tories lurch from one disaster to another yet Labour doesn't make any inroads into gaining more support.
That's a phenomenon that links 'liberal' mainstream press in the US, UK, and Germany I've observed: The NewYorkTimes, Guardian, ZEIT all still give a platform to people who do nothing but abuse this additional spotlight while their usual platforms would never ever ponder doing the same for the other side. It results in a false balance of reporting/opinions which really just constitutes a logical fallacy.
If the UK chooses the US over the EU, there is no hope for us. It would be the end.
I wonder if there would have been much fallout if May didn't invite Trump. You don't need a crystal ball to know doing a deal with the US is the wrong choice that would never ever be in your favour, May is either very stupid or just playing politics.
I wonder if there would have been much fallout if May didn't invite Trump. You don't need a crystal ball to know doing a deal with the US is the wrong choice that would never ever be in your favour, May is either very stupid or just playing politics.
Exactly.
No one seems to be content with May, NO ONE. Especially not within her own party. How in the world does that merely produce a lead for the main opposition party that might as well be only a statistical uncertainty? And we still haven't even adressed the muddled effect on the first-past-the-poll voting system. People must realize that Corbyn's Brexit negotiation will be just as frustrating as May's because they both want 90% the same deal with Europe which is just a disgrace.
So, of course Corbyn is a bad opposition leader if you consider the context.
Remember at this time Labour are being almost shut out of the mainstream press as the Conservatives fight amongst themselves. When there is a general election the media actually have to give Labour equal time and let Corbyn speak directly to the public which he did very well at the last election.
You can moan about FPTP all you want but it doesn't change the fact that despite being the only mainstream Pro-Remain party in England the Lib Dems have failed to gain any significant traction for their Brexit stance, the one huge issue that has been the focus of politics for the past couple of years. If Labour oppose Brexit it won't matter how badly the Tories botch Brexit they will spin it as Labour not following The Will of the People and not proposing solutions. Far better to position themselves are the party who would have delivered a workable Brexit but were thwarted by the Tories.
It is mindless bashing if all you do is say Labour should be doing better without adequately explaining either where you think they are failing or what they should do. Honestly it is almost shitposting at this point. Also goes for those saying Corbyn wants a no deal/hard brexit when Labour policy is commited to staying in a customs partnership.
I know, I'm just saying the normal rules aren't really working until we get past brexit, a northern ukip was a possibility if Labour hadn't accepted the result.
He is a cakeist too.
Forgive me if I berate somebody that bashes the government for their handling of the situation (all the while abstaining or voting for their terrible policies), when the basic labour proposal is a shitshow too.
Open Europe certainly has an interesting take on things "Please accept this shitty deal, which loosens our relationships, or else our relations will end up looser"
I think it does. A play.
Centrists: Labour should be doing better in the polls!
Me: What should they do?
Centrists: Oppose Brexit!
Me: What about the Lib Dems who poll badly using that policy
Centrists: Wah, that is whataboutism.
Me: Yes.
From YouGov
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu-referendum-two-years/
Only around a third of people want to stop Brexit. (Assuming all 2nd ref people are remainers) So your point that Labour would be doing better in the polls by taking an unpopular position is unfounded and when tested by the Lib Dems is an outright failure.
Please substantiate that with quotes from Labour policy and the fascist right please.
Do the ERG (Jacob Rees-Mogg's group), UKIP or any other right wing group want a Customs Partnership.
What? Can you not read?
Corbyn is on record, we are leaving single market. Leaving single market is hard Brexit. That is exactly the same position as the pantomime toff and the far right. You can't run away from this fact.
It is like you haven't read Labour's proposal at all and only deal in sound bites. You can call Labour's policy shit all you want. It is shit.
But don't come in here and try to say Labour and the Far Right are the same on Brexit when they are demonstrably not.
Both sides are not the same.
If by Labour we mean their current leader, then yes, their stance on Brexit is pretty much the same. Corbyn may try to dress it up in softer, kinder language, but a hard brexit is a hard brexit.
Yep, I bet good money BOTH main parties would just go for another GE before another ref, I mean we've all seen the shit show of 2016, who in their right minds on any party wants a repeat of that??? Not even the snp wants another ref without certain considerations for Scotland if they choose remain again. Both tories and labour would much rather prefer another 'Brexit GE' then a ref. Split the voting three ways just allows the chance of no deal voting by the crazies to be high. What have then would kill the party in power at the next election, it's a fatal poisoned chalice. Even the fucking ERG would prefer an FTA, as evidenced by the leaked DAVIS document.
Sorry to say guys, but a great, great of deal of shit must hit the fan before they allow the unwashed masses back to the polling station for such a vote. A GE is FAR more likely right now, and can happen this year. That chance, with all the recent developments, is growing by the day.
The ERG may not have enough votes to take out may right now, but they sure as hell have enough to lob a shitsorm of a grenades at mays government, they can drag any leadership contest on and on, applying maximum pressure to a very fragile and weak government. Force may to go through a bruising,drainin contest with the backdrop of WEEKS to go for the brexit deal to be reached? With surgical strike tactics being deployed by a bunch of cutthroat crazies?The government would implode with pressure, may could just do a Cameron and fuck it all off.
Labour sources have already accepted the possible idea of getting the brexit ultras to work with them in voting down the deal when it goes to parliament. Even if 15-20 mps rebel, and I do think Mogg and bojo can get that number easily, that's more then enough to topple may. The cabinet have been teetering at the edge for a while now, and there is no sign the reshuffle has got them loyal to may, they are still waiting to stab each other in the back. It's not a untied cabinet. it's interesting that those mps and staff that still very much In with the hard brexit and ERG crowd are still in cabinet and ranking positions, a mass junior minster walkout is possible.
I mean they have already struck hard this week, and with the published leaked DD paper they are not fucking about at all, the civil war is very much underway. May is NOT the type of leader to really pull off the shit needed to overcome and choke out the crazies, she should have done that at the beginning, now is too far gone.
You bet your bottom dollar if trump advises BoJo to run for PM he will, with the backing of 50-70 mps thanks to Mogg and crew, which is a high figure out of the gate. I don't think Mogg will run, from what I observed, he loves being the power behind the throne. An influencer rather then the influenced. He a bullshitter too, but the stuff he says about running forum seems genuine enough, I don't think he's interested in being PM. BoJo being this silent for this long really should be concerning for may.
The civil war is going to get real ugly. All labour needs to do is stand back and wait for the right opportunity to force a GE, or just get in firmly in the conversation.
Show it. Get quotes from official Labour policy that shows they are no different to the far right.
It is like fucking Question Time in here.
Sorry but you have to be a joke poster at this point. The end result of Labour's policy and the far right fever dream are the fucking same thing. What the fuck do you think leaving the single market means?
I heard both Labour and the Far Right have a problem with anti-semitism therefore they are the same thing.
Look the future relationship Labour want with Europe is not the same as the far right like Ukip or Eurosceptic Tories or even Theresa May's plan. All of them include leaving the single market but all at varying degrees with different solutions for future trade and alignment. Acting like there is no difference is denying reality.
Really? Either the sound bites are ridiculously cut or he is saying different things on record than what is written in the Labour manifest.
Yeah, effectively you are the one denying reality because there already are exactly three possible outcomes left:
- Brexit is cancelled
- Brexit in name only via Norway, possibly Swiss like arrangement
- Hard Brexit -> WTO
If you're alluding to the possibility of better negotiating that will make a more left-leaning version of the 2nd option realistic... no chance imo. I also find Labour, Corbyn or not, far more bearable than the Tories. But I do not trust them to be better negotiators than the Tories because they seem to be just as badly informed about the inner workings of the EU and their naivety that the EU could be 'nice' to them won't make it better.
Also, why not considering this: Corbyn may even say that he'd vote to leave the EU in a 2nd referendum, but most importantly he offers it as an election promise in the first place.
So outside of Marxist revolution leading to Brexit being cancelled is there any other hope? On the current trajectory there's going to be no outcome other than no deal.
They're gonna love it tomorrow when he says something about the America war for independence or some shit.
We need our useless media to start questioning exactly why we should be severing all trade ties with the EU in order to closely align ourselves with the US. What exactly are the benefits?
Again, it's symbolism. The end goal is to show that we could do it, rather than worrying about the substance. But unlike blue passports and glasses with crowns on them, it ends with nearly a million unemployed, our health service decimated and tainted food.
The whole thing falls apart under any level of scrutiny which is why it's so infuriating that there isn't any.
Again, it's symbolism. The end goal is to show that we could do it, rather than worrying about the substance. But unlike blue passports and glasses with crowns on them, it ends with nearly a million unemployed, our health service decimated and tainted food.
The whole thing falls apart under any level of scrutiny which is why it's so infuriating that there isn't any.
Fundamentally, the Tories stated policy is no CU, no SM but a special deal which will in practice replicate the good bits of both without any of the current obligations.
The Labour's policy is a CU, no SM but a special deal which will in practice replicate the good bits of the SM without any of the current obligations.
So they're not the exactly the same, but they're both firmly in cakeland.
OP
OP
Faddy, let me ask you - if it's not Corbyn, Labour's Brexit position, the antisemitism issue or a combination of the three, why do you think Labour aren't doing better against the Tories? Or do you think they're doing just fine against a government that has presided over:
Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit (and McVey lying to Parliament), 8 years of crippling austerity, a shambolic two years of Brexit negotiations, a defence secretary leaving due to sexually inappropriate behaviour, a deputy PM losing his job due to lying about porn on his government laptop, the most appallingly disastrous train timetable relaunch under the transport secretary, an international trade dev secretary resigning after being caught having inappropriate dealings with a foreign power, the NHS being in its most dire state since it was founded 70 years ago, the resignation of the DEXEU secretary and an absolutely calamitous and embarrassing foreign secretary who was allowed to resign instead of being sacked after a string of high profile gaffes?
Please explain how, by any metric, they're doing sufficiently well as the opposition party against the walking undead corpse that is May's government?
Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit (and McVey lying to Parliament), 8 years of crippling austerity, a shambolic two years of Brexit negotiations, a defence secretary leaving due to sexually inappropriate behaviour, a deputy PM losing his job due to lying about porn on his government laptop, the most appallingly disastrous train timetable relaunch under the transport secretary, an international trade dev secretary resigning after being caught having inappropriate dealings with a foreign power, the NHS being in its most dire state since it was founded 70 years ago, the resignation of the DEXEU secretary and an absolutely calamitous and embarrassing foreign secretary who was allowed to resign instead of being sacked after a string of high profile gaffes?
Please explain how, by any metric, they're doing sufficiently well as the opposition party against the walking undead corpse that is May's government?
There's been numerous reports on it over the last couple of years, you can find stories about it all over the place. In general though, if you look into the actual 'substance' of the allegations they aren't particularly damming. There's clearly some issues with some members of the party (and Corbyn is hardly the best at PR) but, by and large, it's just another cudgel the press (even some on the 'left') are using to bludgeon Corbyn with. If you don't ready beyond the headlines you'd think their was some huge, rampant issue with the Labour party.
OP
OP
It isn't policy (aside from subsequent weak amendments to their code of conduct in the wake of the scandal). This post summarises the matter quite well:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10329639/
And this:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/10329154/
I'll happily see them move a bit more center if it means them getting in. I like Labour being further left, but if the price to be paid for not having another decade of uninterrupted Tory rule with more Thatcher-like gutting of the country for profit is Labour shifting to the center to pick up floating votes, I'll take it. I'm not gonna clutch pearls about it if it gets the Tories out.
It's been fun to see the MERL find a niche on twitter (if thanks to an absolute unit). I did my studies there (as part of the Uni of Reading). Reading's a Remain area too, so that probably affects their confidence to say this.
The Tories will do all that every time they're in power. If we don't make any movement in the opposite direction we're only prolonging an inevitable slide to the right. Meanwhile true leftist policies become more and more demonized until (see America).
And I'm not convinced Labour policy is the problem to begin with. Yes there's Brexit, but that's got nothing to do with left/centre left. People like Labour policy. Especially when they don't know it's Labour policy.
- Status