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plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
Yeah, I'd be very sad if sexualized women in video games, which I love to look at, were removed because it made people feel uncomfortable, or made them chase after unrealistic standards and led them to disappointments, or anything like that. Media has bad effects, yes, but not the same on everyone. It's unfair to want media to fit just one demographic.
When we say we want games to be more 'representative' we're not saying we want to make every single female character (I guess this term feels okay because it covers the designs for girls and women in a fictional medium) into some all in one, can't offend anyone stereotype.

Some women in real life are sexy, and like being sexy. There should still be characters in games like that, that let them know that they aren't broken or weird. The problem is when you have an overabundance of something like that, it leads to things like anorexia and people feeling pushed into fitting a stereotype that's very far from who they actually are.

We're trying to make sure it fits *more* demographics than it currently does. Not less.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,411
Beaumont, CA
I care about me and my preferences. Not something bigger. I don't care if anyone is "fucking tired" of seeing such designs. I am not. I don't care how it affects, like any other sort of media, people's psychology or anything. Not everyone minds it. Not every woman, and definitely not me.

"Hey I'm not sexist or anything, some of my best friends are women..."
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
I care about me and my preferences. Not something bigger. I don't care if anyone is "fucking tired" of seeing such designs. I am not. I don't care how it affects, like any other sort of media, people's psychology or anything. Not everyone minds it. Not every woman, and definitely not me.
Then why come into a thread about something not related to you and make it about you? Obviously you don't care, so the fact that you felt the need to come into this thread, tell everyone how much you don't care, and then mansplain the issue away by saying "not everyone minds it" is unnecessary.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,588
Yeah, I'd be very sad if sexualized women in video games, which I love to look at, were removed because it made people feel uncomfortable, or made them chase after unrealistic standards and led them to disappointments, or anything like that. Media has bad effects, yes, but not the same on everyone. It's unfair to want media to fit just one demographic.

I care about me and my preferences. Not something bigger. I don't care if anyone is "fucking tired" of seeing such designs. I am not. I don't care how it affects, like any other sort of media, people's psychology or anything. Not everyone minds it. Not every woman, and definitely not me.
It's "unfair" when other people get to weigh in, but totally fair when all media fits your own demographic?

You acknowledge that media has bad effects, but then you "don't care" about the real people with real effects from it?

It sounds like you're in this topic about women feeling excluded to hold up your hand and vote for that continuing, in order for you to see designs that you admit are unrealistic. Have I understood you correctly?
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Then let it be another opinion in the sea of opinions. That's how I feel.

Except your entire argument has no basis in anything because, and let me spell it out for you because I cannot make it any clearer than this: the OP and multiple posters here (including me) are not interested in taking away your fanservice characters! We are allowed to complain about how a character looks and unless one of us is hiding a magic wand, none of our words have an effect of the game. We complain because we are frustrated with it, with it being obvious, with it being samey, with it being boring. Guess what? We are free to complain about it? It's not gonna suddenly make it go away!
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,406
The English Wilderness
It's sadly an increasing thought in those threads. I'm...dissapointed, but not surprised.

The complete lack of empathy towards others is one of the main reasons we're in this mess. After all, who cares how it makes women feel so long as men get their titillation?

There's actually been research into the link between "geek" interests and how they attract/encourage sociopathy/narcissism (it's all about a need to escape the real world into an idealised fantasy equivalent, basically).
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
When we say we want games to be more 'representative' we're not saying we want to make every single female character (I guess this term feels okay because it covers the designs for girls and women in a fictional medium) into some all in one, can't offend anyone stereotype.

Some women in real life are sexy, and like being sexy. There should still be characters in games like that, that let them know that they aren't broken or weird. The problem is when you have an overabundance of something like that, it leads to things like anorexia and people feeling pushed into fitting a stereotype that's very far from who they actually are.

We're trying to make sure it fits *more* demographics than it currently does. Not less.

I'm quoting this not because it's a good response to that poster, but rather because it's a good response period.

I want more diversity in the games. I don't want every dude to look the same and every chick to look the same.
 

Deleted member 12009

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,141
The complete lack of empathy towards others is one of the main reasons we're in this mess. After all, who cares how it makes women feel so long as men get their titillation?

There's actually been research into the link between "geek" interests and how they attract/encourage sociopathy/narcissism (it's all about a need to escape the real world into an idealised fantasy equivalent, basically).

I would love to see this research. And not just because it'd reinforce my own assumptions.
 

borghe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,112
When we say we want games to be more 'representative' we're not saying we want to make every single female character (I guess this term feels okay because it covers the designs for girls and women in a fictional medium) into some all in one, can't offend anyone stereotype.

Some women in real life are sexy, and like being sexy. There should still be characters in games like that, that let them know that they aren't broken or weird. The problem is when you have an overabundance of something like that, it leads to things like anorexia and people feeling pushed into fitting a stereotype that's very far from who they actually are.

We're trying to make sure it fits *more* demographics than it currently does. Not less.
I got into an argument (well, hopefully discussion) privately with another mod after being warned in the Xenoblade thread....

first, I love this post. It's where I was going in the XB thread and yes... there are absolutely women out there who enjoy being sexy, posting pics to social media for attention, etc.. and I have come across people very close to me, whom I love dearly, sex positive feminists, who have a problem with what those girls do. I love her dearly, and am insanely proud of her role as a feminist and how she genuinely cares about not only her strength and well being but friends and others as well.. however when many feminists say "it's not about prudishness".. while I I certainly can't make claims about anyone else, I can tell you for this one person.... she would never say something to someone in person and openly is very respectful of people's right to make a choice. but privately, to me and others.. yeah, she is judging. and not only does she, but from conversation I know for a fact that her like minded friends are of the same mind and make the same comments (behind backs).

in the OP the poster roughly said "if they were at a beach and everyone was in swimwear" or such... however that could also be read as "if they were in an environment that went a reasonable length to remove sexuality". there are women who show up places dressed in... probably inappropriate, clothing.. it's there choice and I believe we all agree that they should absolutely not be slut shamed.. so if they choose to do it, then what makes it terrible in a video game for a random heroine? Because it was developed by a male? If so, if it were developed by a female, would it then be ok for them to randomly show up in a trash bag bikini?

Women should be empowered and should feel comfortable and accepted. but at what point does one's own morality cross over and get imposed or judged upon someone else to satisfy their level of comfort?

edit - I guess a tl;dr t this post would be... we should definitely work to make all women, of all types, represented in media/gaming/movies/books/etc. If there is an overabundance of sexualized caricatures almost uniformly there for objectification and those are the vast majority of examples. fuck that. but currently, it feels we are crossing over into a territory of any sort of sexualization being unacceptable.. and while that seems like something to be "fixed", the reality is.. well... reality. We "fix" it in games, so certain women feel comfortable. We "fix" it in movies, so certain women feel comfortable. At what point do these women now feel uncomfortable because so-and-so is posting pics, or showing up to events, etc in trash bag bikinis? This is the sort of stuff I am encountering in real life (in private) and it's a little concerning.
 
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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
The complete lack of empathy towards others is one of the main reasons we're in this mess. After all, who cares how it makes women feel so long as men get their titillation?

There's actually been research into the link between "geek" interests and how they attract/encourage sociopathy/narcissism (it's all about a need to escape the real world into an idealised fantasy equivalent, basically).

That wouldn't surprise me. There's a constant need for validation at times that comes from geek/nerd circles. The cycle of bullying within those are bullied is noted among other studies as well, if I recall correctly.
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.

Volume-1-cover1.jpg


manga-otoyomegatari.jpg


bee712be0358321b715226255d096ffc674b756b_hq.jpg


1547.jpg

51OY%2BnuAeNL._SX344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


sevindik_khanum_of_desht_i_yurtubi__cuman_kypchak__by_gambargin-d76ddn0.jpg


batuyisu_gonji_mangedei_of_nodai_in_ulus__mongol__by_gambargin-d71u9dx.png


ilkay_kathun_of_ural_khaganligi__turko_altaic__by_gambargin-d88wof3.jpg


One of my favorite is Khutulun who was a respective strategist of Khan and warrior who's bet was marring to a warrior who will defeat her at battle in case of defeat she gets 100 horses from challenger (at the end she got 10 000).

marco-polo1.jpg


marco_9_3132232k.jpg
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.

Volume-1-cover1.jpg


manga-otoyomegatari.jpg


bee712be0358321b715226255d096ffc674b756b_hq.jpg


1547.jpg

51OY%2BnuAeNL._SX344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


sevindik_khanum_of_desht_i_yurtubi__cuman_kypchak__by_gambargin-d76ddn0.jpg


batuyisu_gonji_mangedei_of_nodai_in_ulus__mongol__by_gambargin-d71u9dx.png


ilkay_kathun_of_ural_khaganligi__turko_altaic__by_gambargin-d88wof3.jpg


One of my favorite is Khutulun who was a respective strategist of Khan and warrior who's bet was marring to a warrior who will defeat her at battle in case of defeat she gets 100 horses from challenger (at the end she got 10 000).

marco-polo1.jpg


marco_9_3132232k.jpg
I think they're great designs, but these are slightly different in that they're historically accurate and not a portrayal of a woman as an object to be ogled by a horny dev.

I like them, regardless.
 

petran79

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
Greece

Findings arent too judgemental fortunately

We are aware that several of our findings have the potential to create or perpetuate social stigma for individuals in geek culture. It is not our intention to link geek culture with dysfunction or antisocial behavior. Although the terms narcissism, fantasy proneness, schizotypy, and dissociation are often used in clinical contexts, the field has moved toward viewing these constructs as dimensional traits, moderate levels of which may be neutral or even adaptive for the individual (e.g., [81]). Narcissism in particular has been studied as an adaptive trait by social psychologists [82,83] and moderate levels of schizotypal personality and dissociation have been shown to be related to creativity [40,41], which can be a form of adaptive functioning. A subfactor resembling schizotypy has been found in the basic personality trait openness to experience [79] and fantasy proneness includes a nonclinical factor that encompasses daydreaming and enjoyment of fantasy [22]. Therefore, relationships between these traits and geek engagement should not be interpreted as evidence of psychopathology in geeks. Individuals high in geek engagement in Studies 1–7 above scored high in all of these traits, but barring some depression, reduced crystalized intelligence, and thwarted autonomy, they also showed increased levels of civic engagement and showed no deficits in belongingness, social network size, or future orientation. Thus we have painted a picture of geeks as different, but not dysfunctional.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.

Volume-1-cover1.jpg


manga-otoyomegatari.jpg


bee712be0358321b715226255d096ffc674b756b_hq.jpg


1547.jpg

51OY%2BnuAeNL._SX344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


sevindik_khanum_of_desht_i_yurtubi__cuman_kypchak__by_gambargin-d76ddn0.jpg


batuyisu_gonji_mangedei_of_nodai_in_ulus__mongol__by_gambargin-d71u9dx.png


ilkay_kathun_of_ural_khaganligi__turko_altaic__by_gambargin-d88wof3.jpg


One of my favorite is Khutulun who was a respective strategist of Khan and warrior who's bet was marring to a warrior who will defeat her at battle in case of defeat she gets 100 horses from challenger (at the end she got 10 000).

marco-polo1.jpg


marco_9_3132232k.jpg
Those are really, really cool.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.

Volume-1-cover1.jpg


manga-otoyomegatari.jpg


bee712be0358321b715226255d096ffc674b756b_hq.jpg


1547.jpg

51OY%2BnuAeNL._SX344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


sevindik_khanum_of_desht_i_yurtubi__cuman_kypchak__by_gambargin-d76ddn0.jpg


batuyisu_gonji_mangedei_of_nodai_in_ulus__mongol__by_gambargin-d71u9dx.png


ilkay_kathun_of_ural_khaganligi__turko_altaic__by_gambargin-d88wof3.jpg


One of my favorite is Khutulun who was a respective strategist of Khan and warrior who's bet was marring to a warrior who will defeat her at battle in case of defeat she gets 100 horses from challenger (at the end she got 10 000).

marco-polo1.jpg


marco_9_3132232k.jpg
Even as a man, designs like these would make me look into a game. Really good stuff. And I actually want more realistic stuff. History is fascinating also, often more so than fiction. Already made me look up more info on Khutulun.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.
They look badass, I'd follow an adventuring party decked out like that wherever they were going :-)

To me what looks great about them is that, not only are they colourful and functional, but they look comfortable too. They are clothes designed for riding, shooting, fighting and generally adventuring through windswept plains and valleys, and so as well as having beautiful detail they look lived in. This mix of combat equipment with padding and detailed, thick clothing is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more of on adventurers in RPGs, rather than combat lingerie, ineffective scraps of metal and a severe lack of planning for the journey ahead.

Maybe I bang on about practicality too much but it's a huge part of worldbuilding for me, it makes characters look like they exist in that place outside of combat encounters, cut scenes and character creation.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
They look badass, I'd follow an adventuring party decked out like that wherever they were going :-)

To me what looks great about them is that, not only are they colourful and functional, but they look comfortable too. They are clothes designed for riding, shooting, fighting and generally adventuring through windswept plains and valleys, and so as well as having beautiful detail they look lived in. This is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more of on adventurers in RPGs, rather than combat lingerie, ineffective scraps of metal and a severe lack of planning for the journey ahead.

Maybe I bang on about practicality too much but it's a huge part of worldbuilding for me, it makes characters look like they exist in that place outside of combat encounters, cut scenes and character creation.
Hear hear!

Edit: I'll add that it's a form of character-building, too. If I see a stylish, but comfortable looking outfit for riding, adventuring or combat, I think, "this character is competent and experienced, ready for adventure". If I see them wearing metal lingerie with metal pieces that would pierce their skin if they so much as moved an inch and zero breast support, I think, "this character is a blistering idiot no matter how much the game tries to convince me they're not" * :P Basically, I know that the intent behind those costumes isn't to make the character seem stupid and it's just to titillate or make her "hot", but basically, I can't take them seriously because those designs completely undermine the supposedly competent and intelligent characters.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
They look badass, I'd follow an adventuring party decked out like that wherever they were going :-)

To me what looks great about them is that, not only are they colourful and functional, but they look comfortable too. They are clothes designed for riding, shooting, fighting and generally adventuring through windswept plains and valleys, and so as well as having beautiful detail they look lived in. This mix of combat equipment with padding and detailed, thick clothing is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more of on adventurers in RPGs, rather than combat lingerie, ineffective scraps of metal and a severe lack of planning for the journey ahead.

Maybe I bang on about practicality too much but it's a huge part of worldbuilding for me, it makes characters look like they exist in that place outside of combat encounters, cut scenes and character creation.

And it's also why I'm baffled by people who say people who complain about sexualized design want "normalized samey designs". Like, do you know how many types of clothing exist in this world? If anything, one of the reasons why I don't want sexualized designs is because of how samey it is. It is usually the exact same two piece outfit with the exact same cleavage, body shape, and poses.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
They look badass, I'd follow an adventuring party decked out like that wherever they were going :-)

To me what looks great about them is that, not only are they colourful and functional, but they look comfortable too. They are clothes designed for riding, shooting, fighting and generally adventuring through windswept plains and valleys, and so as well as having beautiful detail they look lived in. This mix of combat equipment with padding and detailed, thick clothing is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more of on adventurers in RPGs, rather than combat lingerie, ineffective scraps of metal and a severe lack of planning for the journey ahead.

Maybe I bang on about practicality too much but it's a huge part of worldbuilding for me, it makes characters look like they exist in that place outside of combat encounters, cut scenes and character creation.
Hear hear!

Edit: I'll add that it's a form of character-building, too. If I see a stylish, but comfortable looking outfit for riding, adventuring or combat, I think, "this character is competent and experienced, ready for adventure". If I see them wearing metal lingerie with metal pieces that would pierce their skin if they so much as moved an inch and zero breast support, I think, "this character is a blistering idiot no matter how much the game tries to convince me they're not" * :P Basically, I know that the intent behind those costumes isn't to make the character seem stupid and it's just to titillate or make her "hot", but basically, I can't take them seriously because those designs completely undermine the supposedly competent and intelligent characters.
Yep, yep. All of this.

Makes the world more coherent and believable, and does the same for the characters while also making them look competent (a particularly rare trait among the Japanese games I've played, unfortunately). I just want to see more of this sort of thing!
 

D.A.

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
425
The complete lack of empathy towards others is one of the main reasons we're in this mess. After all, who cares how it makes women feel so long as men get their titillation?

There's actually been research into the link between "geek" interests and how they attract/encourage sociopathy/narcissism (it's all about a need to escape the real world into an idealised fantasy equivalent, basically).
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

That said, I'm open to more realistic representation to come to the videogame market. Developers are free to try and do so. But in the end the market dictates what is popular, and what is not, it may embrace more realistic representation or it may reject such. If it does reject such, such realistic representation would be destined to a niche, probably some indie developers.

That is we can have both, but we have to accept whatever becomes more popular, is simply more popular. You can look at fanart for any work of fiction, the work of the community at large, males and females alike. What types of representations are usually popular regards females?
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,406
The English Wilderness
The creator of FMA drew that?

That's really shocking. That show was so devoid of fanservice for the most part.

It's from the recent anime, which was adapted from her designs (in contrast to the 90s OVAs, which were adapted from Amano's). I think she's toned it down a bit (but not a lot) in later volumes of the manga, though it's hard to tell in black and white...
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
The complete lack of empathy towards others is one of the main reasons we're in this mess. After all, who cares how it makes women feel so long as men get their titillation?

There's actually been research into the link between "geek" interests and how they attract/encourage sociopathy/narcissism (it's all about a need to escape the real world into an idealised fantasy equivalent, basically).
Oh my, can you tell me where I should look for this research? There's so much wrong with "geek culture" (not just sexism) and I want to know why.
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
In my opinion context can help (not with everything ofc) here an example from same artist, at first I was "Wait WHAT?" but you see he made a research.

Chain mail bikini is a modern invention, and the element is most prevalent in the fantasy world. But Fighting with minimal clothing is no stranger to historical warrior of both sexes. Many ancient cultures, like the Greeks, Celts, Picts, Native American and various African tribal groups practice fighting with minimal/or no clothing at all. Some took place as ritual fighting, others took place as real combat. It could be justified, given the fact that back then, proper protective clothing in the form of body armor were quite expensive and/or very labor intensive to be made. Also, warfare were mostly ritualized and involved one on one fighting, though in some cases the aim was to defeat and capture your opponents than to kill them outright. Using body protection could be considered as cowardice. These were mostly prevalent in the Early Human Civilization, where organized warfare were fewer in numbers and standing armies were almost non existent.

However, warfare became more brutal and society became more and more sophisticated, body armors became a necessity and the idea of fighting with minimal or no clothing at all gradually became viewed more as suicidal than as pure raw bravery. Discipline, on the other hand, were an important factors in the outcome of the battle. For example, while the roman armies may have been decimated or defeated against the onslaught of "Barbarians", with some of the fighting in "naked", the Romans eventually came out as a victor, thanks to it highly organized, trained and disciplined legionaries, despite it's comparatively smaller number. As one historian said, Rome was defeated numerous times in battle, but they always won the war.


shield_less_maiden_asa_the_horny_viking_by_gambargin-d8odh3q.jpg
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Yep, yep. All of this.

Makes the world more coherent and believable, and does the same for the characters while also making them look competent (a particularly rare trait among the Japanese games I've played, unfortunately). I just want to see more of this sort of thing!
Absolutely. Costume can say so much, I'm amazed at how many make the argument that outfits that are barely-there offer variety, when if there's one trend that says nothing it's the stockings and short skirt on combat characters. Everything from Valkyria Chronicles to Fire Emblem to Trails to Tales and Xenoblade and back again, it's done to death and just screams 'generic sex appeal!' as it's first statement rather than something more interesting.

Speaking of Fire Emblem and the worldbuilding/character background that a costume can suggest, one of my faves is Titania. The surcoat suggests knightly, and the layered outfit of leather, cloth and plate suggests competence, (she used to be a Knight) but what I love is the tiny bit of medieval dress-style-lacing beneath her breastplate. It's such a tiny detail and says so much, it's a single delicate, feminine touch to her costume that is otherwise all sweeping lines and heavy armour. There are several dozen more recent female characters in the series that wear much less, but to me Titania looks recognisable, lovely, feminine and dangerous all at the same time. Sure, that stitching should probably be covered in armour to keep my point coherent, but it's such a nice characterful detail for a fantasy female knight that it takes it past that for me. I imagine if designed today she'd probably be wearing a g-string, stockings and a crop top with a bit of armour on her elbow or something :-)


BSAI9N.png
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
In my opinion context can help (not with everything ofc) here an example from same artist, at first I was "Wait WHAT?" but you see he made a research.

Chain mail bikini is a modern invention, and the element is most prevalent in the fantasy world. But Fighting with minimal clothing is no stranger to historical warrior of both sexes. Many ancient cultures, like the Greeks, Celts, Picts, Native American and various African tribal groups practice fighting with minimal/or no clothing at all. Some took place as ritual fighting, others took place as real combat. It could be justified, given the fact that back then, proper protective clothing in the form of body armor were quite expensive and/or very labor intensive to be made. Also, warfare were mostly ritualized and involved one on one fighting, though in some cases the aim was to defeat and capture your opponents than to kill them outright. Using body protection could be considered as cowardice. These were mostly prevalent in the Early Human Civilization, where organized warfare were fewer in numbers and standing armies were almost non existent.

However, warfare became more brutal and society became more and more sophisticated, body armors became a necessity and the idea of fighting with minimal or no clothing at all gradually became viewed more as suicidal than as pure raw bravery. Discipline, on the other hand, were an important factors in the outcome of the battle. For example, while the roman armies may have been decimated or defeated against the onslaught of "Barbarians", with some of the fighting in "naked", the Romans eventually came out as a victor, thanks to it highly organized, trained and disciplined legionaries, despite it's comparatively smaller number. As one historian said, Rome was defeated numerous times in battle, but they always won the war.


shield_less_maiden_asa_the_horny_viking_by_gambargin-d8odh3q.jpg
That's all true, and thanks for the art, but I think the difference is that such societies also didn't deploy both male and female warriors with the women in very little armour and the men covered in platemail. That's always been my bugbear with the chainmail bikini in some fantasy settings/RPGs (albeit not Conan, which was obviously inspired by such historical settings, 'Barbarian' being a Roman term). The lack of armour/clothing was cultural and how that society fought, rather than a fantasy setting where it is just applied to women for sex appeal in a culture where better armour exists and is chosen by male adventurers because reasons.
 
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Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
I always kind of got the impression that Hiromu liked boobs and fanservice stuff, so I'm not too surprised by her design for Farangis, keeping in mind she's the only woman in Arslan designed like that (IIRC). It's just that FMA and Silver Spoon weren't the proper showcase for it so she kept it to an absolute minimum. Remember "TINY MINISKIRTS!!" and Lust. I also distinctly remember an omake gag in the manga where Olivier and Alex were shown to be related by the fact they both have big chests.

Redcrayon
While I'm still disappointed by stuff like Camilla's design and a lot of the Pegasus riders having bare thighs for some reason, I wouldn't say that Titania would go all bikini on us in a modern FE. There are still a number of non-sexualized female designs. Take Reina for instance.
latest
 
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cyklisten

Member
Nov 12, 2017
442
Late to the thread, but that was a nice, well-articulated post OP. It´s been something gnawing at me for quite some time. Reading some of the early replies about Fire Emblem made me think. I remember back to playing Tactics Ogre and FFT and it dawned on me how refreshing it is that these games doesn´t contain the same level of pandering as newer games in the genre. I don´t know if it was just because of the graphical limitations or because of the visions of the lead developers. One of my favorite genres is JRPGs, but there´s a serious problem with the genre as every new game just has to have some sexual objectification of some kind.

So often the games has absolutely ridiculous designs (mostly for the female characters of course), or they hit you on the head with not-subtle-at-all sexual innuendos, stupid "bath scenes" or something similar. Most of the time, these scenarios has zero connection to anything in the game/story setting and just feels so incredibly tired and just a lame excuse to show of the characters in skimpy clothes.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
While I'm still disappointed by stuff like Camilla's design and a lot of the Pegasus riders having bare thighs for some reason, I wouldn't say that Titania would go all bikini on us in a modern FE. There are still a number of non-sexualized female designs. Take Reina for instance.
Fair point, happy to concede it. I suppose some of the characters take up more oxygen than others, they have such huge casts but it only takes half a dozen crap designs (or one particularly awful one) to really stick in your memory.

For what it's worth, I'm optimistic about FE on Switch next year, following Echoes- that had some great art and character designs (or re-designs I should say).
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,222
Canada
Absolutely. Costume can say so much, I'm amazed at how many make the argument that outfits that are barely-there offer variety, when if there's one trend that says nothing it's the stockings and short skirt on combat characters. Everything from Valkyria Chronicles to Fire Emblem to Trails to Tales and Xenoblade and back again, it's done to death and just screams 'generic sex appeal!' as it's first statement rather than something more interesting.

Speaking of Fire Emblem and the worldbuilding/character background that a costume can suggest, one of my faves is Titania. The surcoat suggests knightly, and the layered outfit of leather, cloth and plate suggests competence, (she used to be a Knight) but what I love is the tiny bit of medieval dress-style-lacing beneath her breastplate. It's such a tiny detail and says so much, it's a single delicate, feminine touch to her costume that is otherwise all sweeping lines and heavy armour. There are several dozen more recent female characters in the series that wear much less, but to me Titania looks recognisable, lovely, feminine and dangerous all at the same time. Sure, that stitching should probably be covered in armour to keep my point coherent, but it's such a nice characterful detail for a fantasy female knight that it takes it past that for me. I imagine if designed today she'd probably be wearing a g-string, stockings and a crop top with a bit of armour on her elbow or something :-)


BSAI9N.png

I looooved Titania

Senri Kita in general had very few pandering designs for his ladies
http://www.creativeuncut.com/art_fire-emblem-path-of-radiance_a.html
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Fair point, happy to concede it. I suppose some of the characters take up more oxygen than others, they have such huge casts but it only takes half a dozen crap designs (or one particularly awful one) to really stick in your memory.

For what it's worth, I'm optimistic about FE on Switch next year, following Echoes- that had some great art and character designs (or re-designs I should say).

Yeah, Fates was kind of bad about it but I do think Fates also was the first time Fire Emblem had such a large pushback and criticism of such events. Awakening really only had Tharja and Nowi with the rest being fine (or at least not noticeable). Echoes was really good in the design department.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Fair point, happy to concede it. I suppose some of the characters take up more oxygen than others, they have such huge casts but it only takes half a dozen crap designs (or one particularly awful one) to really stick in your memory.

For what it's worth, I'm optimistic about FE on Switch next year, following Echoes- that had some great art and character designs (or re-designs I should say).
I do look forward to see what happens with FESwitch.
Yeah, Fates was kind of bad about it but I do think Fates also was the first time Fire Emblem had such a large pushback and criticism of such events. Awakening really only had Tharja and Nowi with the rest being fine (or at least not noticeable). Echoes was really good in the design department.
Yeah I felt the designs in Echoes made a lot more sense. Even the "sexy" ones felt a hell of a lot more subdued- more Orochi or Kagero than Camilla, Nyx, or Charlotte.
 

HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
A lot of people also believe that armor is too heavy to move easily in when that is not necessarily true.



If they want to argue that women can't handle full suits of armor...
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,222
Canada
A lot of people also believe that armor is too heavy to move easily in when that is not necessarily true.



If they want to argue that women can't handle full suits of armor...


lol I LOVE this! No test better than a hands-on one in full suit of armor.
(and it's just a LITTLE funny to see a man in armor taking on the modern world)
 

Q_Pippin

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
258
As I say like always

have both men and women sexualized, showing skin etc
but there is no reason I think for visions to be changed for possible outside issues and to avoid backlash from western sensibilites
The reason games like DOA sell is because there is a market for it and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also

What AAA game out there has multiple scantly clad women these days. Yes Quiet was an issue for some people. For Cindy in FF there were other women present that were not, same with Nier. I wish someone would do a ratio or something because I have no doubt the amount of sexualized women in mainstream games has drastically gone down these last 4/5 years. What would be the perfect ratio ? One quiet for every 10 Aloys or No Cindy/Quiets at all. I mean I think the battle has been won for a while against the chainmail bikinis unless the ultimate goal is the complete removal of all possible aspects of a sexualized female form. Just look at many of the non sexualized female characters introduced just in the last year.
 
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