It's straight out of the alt-right playbook. Remove all context. Make false equivalencies. Claim that saying something is the same as doing something. Rinse repeat.
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Disney severs ties with James Gunn after controversial tweets
- Thread starter Sibersk Esto
- Start date
But they're still paying him right now and will continue to pay him and keep him on board voluntarily for the remainder of the year....
Well, now that the deed has been done, maybe Disney can realize that GotG2 was entirely different than the first and then recognize the fact that GotG1 was in fact not even Gunn's baby. There was a female writer before he came on the project who wrote the first draft and defined most of the characters. There's a reason why Drax feels like an entirely different person in 2.
The loss here directorially might be felt but the writing arguably could be salvaged.
The loss here directorially might be felt but the writing arguably could be salvaged.
Of course it is ! This thread is fascinating isn't it?
I think people are looking at this in the wrong way. Disney and the left are not the same. And Gunn certainly wasn't destroyed by the left. More than anything he was destroyed by corporate forces and our current climate. It's Disney. And it looks really bad. Yeah, it was brought up by alt right scume. But this is still bad PR and it still looks bad, it doesn't matter who brought it up, no one is forgiven for their crimes just because the right brought it up. And Disney is a massive MNC, not the left.
And Disney is still going to protect its brand, and they probably did think he deserves to be fired, but that's not the issue. You can come up with different situation and examples that didn't follow the paradigm, but everyone who is doing that is missing context. The context of these situations changes very quickly.
Post metoo corporations are more careful than ever about courting bad PR. The examples keep racking for corporations to avoid bad PR. Warners got badly burned with going with Depp. Does Disney want rape and paedophila controversy? Even if they are jokes? The risk simply cannot be worth it.
Gunn is a victim of our current circumstances, of corporations wanting to avoid controversy at almost any cost. Yes the right too, but no one is ever going to be excused of what they did simply because the right brought it up. Gunn did write those tweets, and Disney does want to avoid controversy in this current climate.
And Disney is still going to protect its brand, and they probably did think he deserves to be fired, but that's not the issue. You can come up with different situation and examples that didn't follow the paradigm, but everyone who is doing that is missing context. The context of these situations changes very quickly.
Post metoo corporations are more careful than ever about courting bad PR. The examples keep racking for corporations to avoid bad PR. Warners got badly burned with going with Depp. Does Disney want rape and paedophila controversy? Even if they are jokes? The risk simply cannot be worth it.
Gunn is a victim of our current circumstances, of corporations wanting to avoid controversy at almost any cost. Yes the right too, but no one is ever going to be excused of what they did simply because the right brought it up. Gunn did write those tweets, and Disney does want to avoid controversy in this current climate.
The dude has been acting/directing movies though, Hacksaw Ridge was nominated for and won several Oscars. And nobody is under any obligation to forgive anyone, are you going to tell a Jewish person to forgive Mel Gibson, or a black person? Who are you to tell people effected by racism or antisemitism they should forgive Mel Gibson because he's super sorry?
Explain how supporting racism and sexism and homophobia and fascism is just a political affiliation, and if you're posing a question and then telling someone not to answer you aren't interested in having a conversation in good faith.
Ive been saying this for years now. The left is group of purity testing and my way or no way. I just want consistency.
They are probably going to use Gunn's script, so the writing would most likely remain his.
I'm not defending his conclusion, I'm simply stating that as a progressive I understand how this nonsense looks to outsiders.
Needless to say, it's not a good look.
None of us can control for aggressive stupidity
I did not use a dictionary. That is my own definition.
And secondly - as I stated before I am looking for a universal standard that can be applied to everybody. By your own admission and the admission of most people here they would treat people with a different political view differently when it comes to forgiveness.
I would rather it be like federal law - which seeks to treat everyone the same. Do you know a murderer and priest have the same rights to defend themselves in court, to be represented and to have a fair trial and due process. Applying that analogy to conservatives and liberals, a universal standard that could be applied to both in these kind of matters would be good.
But I know what I am proposing - a universal standard is impossible. Because these trials are not happening in courts of law but in courts of public opinion.
Well, as a member of the Left (admittedly a nebulous term) I'd like for us to get our shit together for obvious reasons but clearly, you are correct in that we can only control ourselves and have little agency over the inanity and stupidity of others.
How are you still not grasping there's such things as hateful and bigoted political opinions that can impact how someone is perceived??
If you're not familiar with Rupert's postings then I'd like to extend some sincere and humble advice and suggest you not even bother.
For the record the aggressive stupidity is anyone who becomes more right wing in protest to a right wing campaign
That's never going to happen because reality is some things are worse than others.
The thing is we don't know if this would've been a big controversy to begin with. If anything it became a controversy when Disney fired him so if they wanted to avoid the bad PR they clearly failed because everyone has been talking about it and alot of them are unhappy about it and want Gunn back. If bad PR did happen and people were outraged than fine hell despite the fact Ted Cruz is a fucking tool I would understand why Disney would fire him if Cruz brought it up because having a representative of the US Government call your employee and demand an investigation on him than yeah that would be bad PR.
However though the fact that Disney was slower to react on this for John Lasseter someone who was actually called out by the metoo movement and didn't even receive anywhere near a harsh punishment when we don't even know if the Gunn's story would've actually been a story is one of the extra layer of bullshit on this situation
Okay so, context and intent, not to mention prior character/engagements, can and will often cause people to draw overall conclusions about you. Welcome to humanity and how we judge others. Prior history, engagements and behaviour can and will be referred to "Oh, he's apologising for the same thing... for the 10th time? Hmmm".
The law is supposed to be a "universal standard", but we're not dealing with the law here. It's the public court of opinion and private business.
It's not hard to understand. I think you and Red Mercury are misunderstanding. I don't actually believe or think these things, but where I live puts each surrounded by people who do think this way. It's not bots or trolls, actual people.
You both are too quick to say "that was hate speech, these are jokes!" I agree with you, but you need to understand that a lot of people don't see a difference between pedophile/rape jokes and racist jokes, or they see them equally. I clearly do, but the whole "that's different and you know it" argument isn't universal like some of you think.
I can't explain how an old rape joke on twitter is different than Roseanne's racist garbage on twitter to my grandmother. The sooner everyone realizes this place isn't a microcosm of how the rest of the world works and thinks, the more you'll see the point im making.
I hope I articulated that better than my previous posts.
This attitude is really, really bad. You can't go scorched earth on people who make an active effort to change, that's extremely toxic. You can do that with actual criminials, but over jokes? Where does that extreme way of thinking come from?
He already was largely forgiven. It's why he was able to be hired in the first place.
The only people who didn't "forgive" him are the people pissed because they get called names for bragging about date rape.
If people can't see the difference over dumb jokes and ACTUAL HATEFUL RHETORIC then they're just a fucking idiot.
It's understandable that they haven't heard about it coming from James Gunn because he stopped in 2012.
Not sure if you live in the US or not, but we have a lot of people who don't even understand that Gunn's tweets were jokes. It's not that they can't see a difference between them, it's that they don't think that kind of stuff is a joke.
That's your and your grandmother's failure.
If you can't explain the difference between being currently actually racist and being a near decade reformed repentant ex shitlord... that's on you
It is scary a high profile director to treated in such a way because of some stupid tweets and a mob that only want to do damage and i am terrified that political correctness culture in US have gone to far.
I mean it is disney and we all know how protective is with their brands but to allow such things so easilly to happen for such a reason is scary, almost a paradox (and at the same time the most common think in this crazy era we live)
I mean it is disney and we all know how protective is with their brands but to allow such things so easilly to happen for such a reason is scary, almost a paradox (and at the same time the most common think in this crazy era we live)
I think a lot of younger folks really haven't. It's as if The Aristocrats wasn't a thing for years and years.
I'm speaking generally, not me or my actual grandmother. I hope you know that.
Changing the subject: If I were Gunn I would be fighting this tooth and nail, Disney screwed up.
I know, but it would at least be understandable. I certainly wouldn't forgive an actual child molester, for one.
As already pointed out, the head of one of their biggest franchises is a drug filled wife beater
That's why I mentioned it. Your response seemed awfully personal so I wanted to clarify.
I mean ok. What a weird way to speak generally but my point stands generally speaking anyway
Fair enough, we agree on the failure part.
I hope the mob doesn't start looking back at RDJ's past are Disney is really screwed.
That doesn't make any sense in the context of your conversation. I'm sure excelsiorlef is scratching their head too.
Edit: Too fast for me
I bet Taika and every other Marvel director has hired a team of social media fixers to scrub the shit out of their accounts.
Yeah that was my bad. Chasing a toddler and typing at the same time.