His next election is 3 years away if he even decides to run again. Why are we worrying about electability right now?
Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent [Up: Apology; Apology Accepted]
- Thread starter Smokeymicpot
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It sure as hell matters when the alternative is the GOP and their end goal is a Theocratic Evangelical State.
I want you to look at what Franken has done since he's been in office and tell me we'd be better off with a Republican. He has been literally one of the strongest liberal forces in the Senate.
You've got Al Franken with a bad photo, a bad accusation, and an otherwise sparkling reputation for fighting for the people. And you're willing to throw that away on the off chance another Democrat might win Minnesota? Where a loss to a republican could be devesting?
Yeah, bigger picture for me. Deal with this in time. At the moment, the "score" is far too close. There's no use in a moral high ground when theres nobody there to listen.
Probably not, but he doesn't deserve to be strung up by them over it either. Tossing him out to keep the moral high ground will keep the moral high ground but likely lose everything else.
People like him. Even after this I'd wager, and the left has a serious problem with recognizable and likable figures. The bench is small. That might all change in 3 years but right now I think sacking the dude almost single handedly responsible for getting Sessions to admit to perjury is stupid. He has been an incredible force in the Senate, it's not even up for debate.
I don't think much will happen to him to be honest. Especially because people are already rationalizing his actions away as being inconsequential. I'm not familiar with Minnesota, so I can't speak to his re-electability.
The issue here is that culturally we are becoming more and more aware of our own depravity and each additional story (and our reaction to it) becomes more of a self reflection of ourselves and our own actions. Because if we hold Senator Franken to this standard, what does that mean for each of ourselves? Life is a sleeping giant waiting to humble the fuck out of each and every one of us. And we don't have anyone to blame but ourselves.
Yeah this. I don't even know what I am reading on the internet anymore. It's the fucking wild west of opinions.... and most of it is pure crap and or bot influencers... What a world.
Edit. to clarify and make sure... I'm with you.
Let's let a republican admit to their own fault for the first time first before we start destroying our own as a sign of our moral superiority.
Eta- they're the ones that are fucking up our values. Let them take some of the blame first before we go high ground or else we doing the work for them.
I wouldn't think of them highly, but if they had a solid reason that I couldn't debunk, I can't blame them. Besides, those weren't the people that cost the election.
I don't use republicans as the measuring stick for my own morality and no amount of shaming over election hypotheticals will make me apologize for it
Honestly, if more shit like this isn't out there, Franken has a chance to turn this whole thing around and attempt to become a bigger voice in fighting for women's rights. It would be tough, but he could pull it off if he framed it right. He's literally been fighting for women for years. He was about to sponsor a bill fighting sexual assault before this came down.
The FCC just today ended rules that prohibited Media Companies from owning Newspapers and TV Stations in the same markets. This move was done specifically to enable Sinclair to face less red tape in its pursuit of solidifying its hold on "News" in its regions. This is the kind of stuff at stake in a war where we are supposed to take the high ground at all times to be "better" than them.
Good for you and I applaud it. Others can't afford that risk though.
In the same week that we're seeing mea culpas over the mistake of letting Bill Clinton slide, we're being told to let it slide. Except this time, you guys don't even know if Franken would survive an election. You're just assuming it and demanding people rally to him otherwise Republicans win forever.
Seriously, what the fuck?
Seriously, what the fuck?
I'm okay with imperfect people in government. But there has to be a line! Sexual assault is one of them. And by compromising on that, I'm not sure Democrats could argue in good faith that they're on the side of victims. Republicans have cornered the assaulters and assaulter apologists demographics. If you want to talk pure winning, being wishy-washy on sexual assault is not going get the votes from the people we need.
Actually all we are saying is don't force him out now. The Democrats can decide they do not want his representation in 2020. The Senate Ethics Committee will do its thing. Franken himself asked for their judgement.
You mean the same FCC who's Commissioner first entered the agency through appointment from Obama?
This is why this shit keeps happening. It always just a little inconvenient to kill the golden goose.
Interesting your justification is the exact same as a Trump diehard. Who cares what our guys do the other team is worse?
We don't need to loosen our standards to win we need to raise them.
It's fine dude, but realize that while you burn someone to the ground over an accusation that may not have happened and a really poor joke, the alternative is literally driving a million more nails into the crosses of a million more innocent people. But as long as your morals get by squeaky clean, I guess they don't matter.
Have you read the other posts in this thread? If that's not what you're saying then ignore my comment. Hell, did you read my post saying there's nothing necessarily wrong with allowing him to finish his term if nothing else happens?
Chumley and sea of games seem to be arguing just that.
"Raising our standards" lost us the 2016 election. Moral righteousness doesn't actually fucking do anything besides suppress turnout.
What you're doing right now is gaslighting sexual assault allegations and juxtaposing it against an abstract threat of people dying.. People are going to get "nailed to crosses" regardless of whether dems or republican wins because thats how the country fucking works and how it's worked since it's inception.
Demanding? No. People make up their own minds. I'm suspicious of the whole thing and I think most liberals would rather burn the whole country than help it at the cost of a stubbed toe. I think people are insane with the level of rhetoric they're going to over what happened, especially in the face of how he went about dealing with the situation. It's astonishing to me how suicidal some of you are.
Lmao, and there it is, "both sides are the same."
Funny how the ones trying to make themselves out like saints are often so politically clueless. Society under a Dem admin is irrevocably and dramatically different, and you know that. If you don't, start reading up on history.
Democrats are in the hole and have no leverage on anything. Republican voters based on watching and reading about them, have no interest in voting Democrat, even if the Democratic issues like healthcare and taxes benefit them. There will be no gain of votes from that block by enacting any sort of new standard. Nobody cares that he wants an investigation even though it's a good idea. Imo people who want him to resign are being irrational.
And definitely an unfair comparison.
The man was not perfect and maybe having some integrity to acknowledge it would do you a favor when holding other elected and public officials who happen to be in the same part accountable.
This reads exactly like both sides nonsense. You're justifying the suffering of millions just to try and hold your nose above the stink.
Pai was named to a Republican seat, the appointment was functionally McConnell's.
Lol you got me and I agree he was not perfect. Was just pointing out a clue towards your thinking.
It's not both sides, it's "hey lets maybe have some fucking standards on this lesser of the two evils political party"
The standards are set by those who rule. At least this guy preached the higher path. The other guys are happy to race to the bottom.
What? I was told we had to accept Hillary and her baggage because it was better than the alternative. Literally exactly the losing strategy you are proposing with Franken.
You are playing a dangerous game assuming everyone will fall in line to support this.
Uh, those people were exactly right. Not accepting that baggage is what got us Trump. That's better? Other candidates had their shot.
Not accepting the baggage got us Trump, so I have no idea what your point is. Is there some incredible alternative to Franken you see on the horizon?
Kind of ignores the entire Dem primary doesn't it? The one where there were some warning signs flashing in front of everyone?
He's a fucking Senator, not a messiah. I can think of a lot of people who don't have a picture of them out there hover groping a woman's breasts. Something tells me you'd be singing a different tune if it's 2019 and Franken is losing in all his re-election polls by 10. At least I would assume so, if you're not straight up insane.
Come on. The people calling for his head to roll even after what transpired in the last 6 hours are extreme but this attitude of yours is just as bad.
If Franken had deflected and tried disparaging this woman's credibility their vitriol would be warranted.
You live by your own morals. I'm sure you don't let others dictate them for you. The same goes for these allies you are improperly being dismissive on.
I can also think of a lot of people who have perspective and can see him as a flawed, apologetic man who's done immeasurably more good things than bad. The urge to banish even the biggest stars of the party over something like this is a weakness, not a strength.
It doesn't really matter, it's what we had.
If Franken resigns, we get a special election in a year that very well might put another Republican into the Senate. The harm that person does will be objectively greater than what Franken did and was forgiven for. Franken will continue to support and fight for liberal ideas while in office. Those are facts. It's up to others to decide for themselves whether they think their moral code is worth that. I don't think it is with only this situation on the record.
How many times do I have to keep saying I'm not talking about resignations? How many times do I have to bang my head against this wall of obstinacy? I'm speaking only to people who think that he is somehow worth continuing to support in future elections.
It all comes down to whether Minnesota can find someone. If someone worthwhile shows up in the primaries who can win, I'll vote for them. If not, Franken is still a better choice than a Republican. All I know is that the incumbent almost always has the advantage.
Dude, what the fuck? There was nothing there that suggested "both sides are the same". Everyone here understands that Republican/conservative rule is not beneficial to America.
What's happening with you right now, it seems (and correct me if I'm wrong), is that a politician who aligns with your world view is being attacked for the disgusting things he has done. So you're scrambling. You need to realize that people who hold decent beliefs and beliefs that are similar to you can still be monsters.
I think you're confused. At no point did I deny Franken did a bad thing, but I push back hard on equivocating him with the right or labeling him a "monster" who should resign or not run for reelection. The moral grandstanding here is absurd.
If we didn't have Hillary, we would have had Bernie and endlessly heard about his "rape essay" and the shady college loan deal his wife was involved in. Trump would have made those two things into the worst crimes ever committed.
Every candidate has baggage, and if they don't, it'll get invented like Obama's birth certificate.
Franken is a great senator and a tasteless joke isn't reason enough to toss out one of your best people.
Ahh okay, I did get confused then. I agree with you. The right is pushing this hard and it's insanely hypocritical when you have a man in the oval office who is a self-admitted sexual offender. Sorry I misunderstood your post, thank you for clarifying.
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