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Coricus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
Melia was such a nice character, I always forget she's a 1000 year old Ancient Creature (tm). Yikes.
I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with women characters that age differently, although when factored into romance like the way it was with High Entia hybridization and her crush on Shulk there's definitely a can of worms that tends to be a bit of an elephant in the room. Like, go ahead and chase your heart I guess but someone at least bring up what's up here and where this is going to end and I don't mean just in the "they'll die and you'll keep living on without them" way.

The issue largely crops up when it's used as an excuse for characters to wear things that wouldn't look right on humans of. . .well, any age, actually, in most of these cases it'd get even more obvious how bad it was if the characters had airbags. "They're not human" is a really flimsy excuse for dressing embarrasingly when they look just like a human with pointy ears.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I'm more just baffled that people said absolutely nothing about Xenoblade's design issues until 2 and still blissfully make excuses for the previous titles even as they rip into this one.
With XBX weren't there some people bothered about a young teen character's optional revealing swimsuit being covered up in the western localisation process? It seemed to generate a lot more discussion than any critique of it (that presumably the localisation team were trying to head off at the pass). Debate hung on 'interfering with the creators intent' and the difference between 'censorship' and 'localisation' in defence of adolescents in sexy outfits, even when the creators are the ones changing the outfit to better fit cultural norms overseas. I don't want to take this discussion off-topic but seeing as a large portion of the thread is Japanese character design it seems linked. The arguments of 'Creative freedom, localisation changes are censorship' were seemingly a more popular/sociably acceptable argument in favour of the original outfit for western adults than than the 'I just like depictions of grown women in sexy outfits' used to defend Quiet and co. I suspect because 'I just like cartoon teens in skimpy swimsuits' is perhaps thought of as a mildly less defensible position than 'artistic freedom'.

FFT Agrias pic posted above:
Agrias is awesome. Another character that never left my party due to the aura of cool competence generated by an outfit that says 'if I'm a woman heading onto dozens of medieval battlefields to kill people I'm gonna look like it'.
 
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Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Agrias is awesome, yeah! I really wish permadeath in Tactics didn't mean characters stop talking and being relevant the moment they join your party.

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with women characters that age differently, although when factored into romance like the way it was with High Entia hybridization and her crush on Shulk there's definitely a can of worms that tends to be a bit of an elephant in the room. Like, go ahead and chase your heart I guess but someone at least bring up what's up here and where this is going to end and I don't mean just in the "they'll die and you'll keep living on without them" way.

The issue largely crops up when it's used as an excuse for characters to wear things that wouldn't look right on humans of. . .well, any age, actually, in most of these cases it'd get even more obvious how bad it was if the characters had airbags. "They're not human" is a really flimsy excuse for dressing embarrasingly when they look just like a human with pointy ears.
Oh of course, I don't think Melia is as bad as say, that loli from Awakening (? sorry I don't play FE), but it kinda ruins part of what I liked about her because I found her crush on Shulk, the importance she gave it compared to her perceived duty as royalty, and the way she resolved her unrequitted feelings very compelling and well-realized... But then there's the issue that she's a 1000 year old being who not only looks but also acts as a teenager and chases an actual teen boy romantically,.. I find it creepy so I try not to think too hard about it.
 

Coricus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
With XBX weren't people more bothered about a young teen character's optional revealing swimsuit being covered up in the western localisation process? It seemed to generate a lot of discussion that hung on 'interfering with the creators intent' and the difference between 'censorship' and 'localisation' in defence of adolescents in sexy outfits, even when the creators are the ones changing the outfit to better fit cultural norms overseas. I don't want to take this discussion off-topic but seeing as a large portion of the thread is Japanese character design it seems linked. The argument of 'Creative freedom/localisation changes are censorship' was seemingly a more popular/sociably acceptable argument in favour of the original outfit for western adults than 'I just like young teens in skimpy swimsuits'.


Agrias is awesome. Another character that never left my party due to the aura of cool competence generated by an outfit that says 'if I'm a woman heading onto dozens of medieval battlefields to kill people I'm gonna look like it'.
That's another thing, the only push I've seen with the Xenoblade franchise prior to 2 was people complaining about skimpy outfits being censored.

So of course the response from Nintendo was to work with the Japanese designers to ensure nothing would pull up an M-rating this time if the game is sent over unedited all while the "anti-censorshp" crowd shivers in fear that "creative vision" might be interfered with from the start.

Meanwhile the Persona thread proves much of the pandering in games is interference with creative vision in the first place.

Overall Xenoblade's vocal push from the fandom has been nothing but "give us more skimpy" right up until the point Pyra was revealed. I legitimately wonder whether the sudden push in the opposite direction will change the next title, but it's a bit late for 2.
 
Nov 11, 2017
1,583
Software
... some absurd sexy womens in mainsteam games, that's so unnecessary and actually you have so much different options to play, watch and see sexy womens if you want.

I am sorry but it's mostly niche games with sexualized characters. I don't think i have played a "mainstream" game in recent memory full of sexy women.. And don't say Witcher..
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Agrias is awesome, yeah! I really wish permadeath in Tactics didn't mean characters stop talking and being relevant the moment they join your party.


Oh of course, I don't think Melia is as bad as say, that loli from Awakening (? sorry I don't play FE), but it kinda ruins part of what I liked about her because I found her crush on Shulk, the importance she gave it compared to her perceived duty as royalty, and the way she resolved her unrequitted feelings very compelling and well-realized... But then there's the issue that she's a 1000 year old being who not only looks but also acts as a teenager and chases an actual teen boy romantically,.. I find it creepy so I try not to think too hard about it.
The whole 'older personality in younger body' thing is so weird. Aside from Nowi in FE and the utterly ridiculous girl in Star Ocean 4 (an adult stuck in an eight-year-old's body, m'kay), the one I thought was odd was the Parasite Eve games. In which, over fifteen years of plot in which other characters (including her fiancee later on) age, the lead character conveniently goes through various episodes of genetic mutation and time travel to keep her looking 23.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
I am sorry but it's mostly niche games with sexualized characters. I don't i have played a "mainstream" game in recent memory full of sexy women.. And don't say Witcher..
Ummmmm, there are more "mainstream" games than just what appears on consoles. Like, say, DotA 2... or League of Legends... or World of Warcraft...
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
I'd say "let's have an uplifting thread filled with positive examples of good female character design", but I'd be surprised if it got past the first page without something terrible showing up...

latest


Just finished Assassin's Creed Unity yesterday. Really loved Elise, design and personality wise, I wish she is the main character instead of another Ezio-clone.

Also upvote for Chris Lightfellow from Suikoden and Agrias from FFT. I'm a sucker for women wearing pant.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
What is your point? Just looked at the rooster of dota2 for example. The heroes look fine to me. Really diverse.
Hmm, yes, diverse... with all of their one single solitary body type and all...

ca8p537b98ox.png


Mind you, I'm not saying it's all bad, but sweeping the problems under the rug and saying it's "good enough" is just not gonna fly with me. Especially when the game has so many direct examples of "evil is sexy" up front and center like it does. And that's not even getting into League of Legends and how, for the longest time, only a single cryophoenix, a child, and a trio of yordles were the only female characters allowed not to be sexy (and then, after her rework, Tristana ended up joining the "sexy" side, so uh, yeah). They've since done some work to rectify that, thankfully. The roster is still incredibly lopsided in favor of generic sexy ladies, however.

And then we can get on other games with big rosters, like Street Fighter V and all the good that's done with regards to female representation... sigh. I'm makin' myself sad now.
 

Cinemikel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,433
I blame Xenoblade 2's terrible character designs on the localization whiners. They were only doing their job by accommodating for different culture responses. Now they've basically turned all the female blades into hentai characters. All of this possibly would have never happened if those people didn't send them the wrong signals.

Those that complained about "censorship" are probably like 500 people too loud for their own good

Like, what is this garbage Monolith:

xenoblade-chronicles-2.jpg

931418191040880645
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
My issues with Pyra would be mostly gone if she were an adult who actually acts sexy as part of her personality, but not only is she stupidly sexualized but she's a stupidly sexualized /teenager/, which makes it all the more difficult to ignore.

And none of this even touches on how she's essentially a living weapon for the male protagonist to battle with, she's the literal meaning of objectification lol.

I believe some japanese Developers think they're clever when they find a "loophole" like this.

It reminds me of Quiet and Kojima. He really thought that the critics will be ashamed of their words and deeds after they learned about the reason for Quiets clothes.

After some backlash with their female designs in previous xenoblade titles i wouldn't be suprised that some of them sat down and searched for a way around the problem. To please all sides...


So they made the "sexy women" into weapons:

"Yeah, that's a good idea right? When they're weapons they're mere objects and there're not the same rules to apply to objects as to humans.

Otakus get their Outfits and the critics can't blame us how we design a few weapons*."



*not even one bit human, only steel and magic
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
I am sorry but it's mostly niche games with sexualized characters. I don't think i have played a "mainstream" game in recent memory full of sexy women.. And don't say Witcher..
League of Legends
Overwatch
World of Warcraft
Nier: Automata
MGS
Fire Emblem
Injustice + Injustice 2
Mortal Kombat
Tekken
Final Fantasy (like, all of them)
Persona 5
Danganronpa (all of them)
God of War (all 3)
The Witcher (yes, it counts, although most of the designs are fine)
Dragon Age series (origins, 2, inquisition)
Mass Effect trilogy
AssCreed

And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
Dragon Age series (origins, 2, inquisition)

And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Dragon Age Inquisition?

The game where a bald black woman is one of your main party members and in-game actually holds vast amount of power you can actually elect her as the ruler of the biggest religion of the world?

The game that features a leading warrior woman who is so far off from your typical "beautiful lady" trope that large part of people actually commented about how Bioware is pandering to "SJWs" due to how not-beautiful she is perceived to be?

The game that features a female gay elf that many in the community actually proclaims as ugly as one of your main party members?

That dragon age? If anything, it's quite astounding just how much that game put capable women characters in position of power. Heck you can make the leaders of the most powerful organization in the world all women if you so desire (well, almost all women, 5 people 4 women 1 guy)
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
Dragon Age Inquisition?

The game where a bald black woman is one of your main party members and in-game actually holds vast amount of power you can actually elect her as the ruler of the biggest religion of the world?

The game that features a leading warrior woman who is so far off from your typical "beautiful lady" trope that large part of people actually commented about how Bioware is pandering to "SJWs" due to how not-beautiful she is perceived to be?

The game that features a female gay elf that many in the community actually proclaims as ugly as one of your main party members?

That dragon age? If anything, it's quite astounding just how much that game put capable women characters in position of power. Heck you can make the leaders of the most powerful organization in the world all women if you so desire (well, almost all women, 5 people 4 women 1 guy)
We're talking about sexualized designs. Not an over abundance of "SJW pandering", or whatever you're attempting to refer to.

I was talking about Morrigan. Her design is stupid.
 

incogneato

Self Requested Ban
Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,119
League of Legends
Overwatch
World of Warcraft
Nier: Automata
MGS
Fire Emblem
Injustice + Injustice 2
Mortal Kombat
Tekken
Final Fantasy (like, all of them)
Persona 5
Danganronpa (all of them)
God of War (all 3)
The Witcher (yes, it counts, although most of the designs are fine)
Dragon Age series (origins, 2, inquisition)
Mass Effect trilogy
AssCreed

And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
I don't think Overwatch is a good example here when it's one of the few making strides to represent women of all body types in gaming.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
We're talking about sexualized designs. Not an over abundance of "SJW pandering", or whatever you're attempting to refer to.

I was talking about Morrigan. Her design is stupid.

Well, she is but of a single character surrounded by plenty of other strong female characters like Cassandra, Leliana, etc. Inquisition is really one of the rare games where women characters actually matter and play a huge role in the world, so to call Inquisition a game "full of sexy women"--because you're responding to a person using this term--as if it is a game using sexualized images of women as its selling point is mischaracterizing the game. That many characterizing the game as "SJW pandering" because it is not using typical characteristics of a "beautiful women" for many of its female characters should tell you that.

In addition. I personally disagree with you calling her design as "stupid", considering her entire character and background and such. She's sure is no Quiet whose creator using frankly utterly bizarre reasoning to justifies her designs.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
I don't think Overwatch is a good example here when it's one of the few making strides to represent women of all body types in gaming.

Yes, it does, but it also features an abundance of fan service-y outfits. Have you seen Witch Mercy? Any Widowmaker skin? There was even an outrage regarding Mei because her Lunar Revel skins "weren't thicc enough"

Well, she is but of a single character surrounded by plenty of other strong female characters like Cassandra, Leliana, etc. Inquisition is really one of the rare games where women characters actually matter and play a huge in the world, so to call Inquisition a game "full of sexy women"--because you're responding to a person using this term--as if it is a game using sexualized images of women as its selling point is mischaracterizing the game.

In addition. I personally disagree with you calling her design as "stupid", considering her entire character and background and such. She's sure is no Quiet whose creator using frankly utterly bizarre reasoning to justifies her designs.

For sure. I have no problems with the rest of the cast. Her design is literally a skirt and a piece of cloth with a bra. How is that necessary, exactly? Despite her background? Just because it's only one character doesn't excuse the game as a whole.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
For sure. I have no problems with the rest of the cast. Her design is literally a skirt and a piece of cloth with a bra. How is that necessary, exactly? Despite her background? Just because it's only one character doesn't excuse the game as a whole.

I personally think her default costume is fitting for her, and it's not like the game actively tries to make the player ogle her or say, make the camera linger on her exposed skin or whatnot.

Anyways, I guess this is just a thing that we have to agree to disagree. I first responded to you simply because I disagree about Dragon Age Inquisition being listed as one of the games characterized as "full of sexy women."
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
I personally think her default costume is fitting for her, and it's not like the game actively tries to make the player ogle her or say, make the camera linger on her exposed skin or whatnot.

Anyways, I guess this is just a thing that we have to agree to disagree. I first responded to you simply because I disagree about Dragon Age Inquisition being listed as one of the games characterized as "full of sexy women."
It's not full of sexy women, I agree. But the majority does not outweigh the shitty minority, in my opinion.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Yes, it does, but it also features an abundance of fan service-y outfits. Have you seen Witch Mercy? Any Widowmaker skin? There was even an outrage regarding Mei because her Lunar Revel skins "weren't thicc enough"

So, are you against the idea of sexualized alternative costumes for female characters, whose standard costumes are acceptable?

I just want to make sure i'm understanding you correctly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
Melia was such a nice character, I always forget she's a 1000 year old Ancient Creature (tm). Yikes.

Melia as in Xenoblade's Melia?

Is she problematic? I don't particularly remember anything problematic about her, in fact she is the strongest character in Xenoblade. Her design is also fine. Probably the only fault I can think of is how attached she is to Shulk, but in the end she's actually becoming a rare character in that she's able to move forward from that all due to her own strength and no one else. You don't get many female character doing that in a videogame.

I mean, what is problematic about her?
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Agrias is awesome. Another character that never left my party due to the aura of cool competence generated by an outfit that says 'if I'm a woman heading onto dozens of medieval battlefields to kill people I'm gonna look like it'.

Hell yeah. People rave about Orlandu but Agrias was the true star of the game (sorry, Ramza).

I blame Xenoblade 2's terrible character designs on the localization whiners. They were only doing their job by accommodating for different culture responses. Now they've basically turned all the female blades into hentai characters. All of this possibly would have never happened if those people didn't send them the wrong signals.

Those that complained about "censorship" are probably like 500 people too loud for their own good
931418191040880645

Unfortunately, those that complained about "censorship" are probably having this reaction to XC2's Blades; I doubt they take it as a loss.
giphy.gif


Well, she is but of a single character surrounded by plenty of other strong female characters like Cassandra, Leliana, etc.

The point was whether mainstream games also feature sexualization, not whether if it's balanced out by the rest of the cast (which is entirely subjective anyway). Let's leave the goalposts where they were, shall we?
 

Suede

Gotham's Finest
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,520
Scotland
I'm sure this may have already been answered, but how do we make this distinction? Is it more to do with how the character is framed, or whether they have an actual personality or not?
You can be sexy without having to show off your body, a woman can be sexy by the way she carries herself, she doesn't need to be stripped of most of her clothing to be sexy.

The ones objectified through their clothing usually show a lot of boob and/or their ass, basically wearing clothing that makes sure those parts of their body are very prominent, and the game and camera will most likely make sure that you aware that her body is out on display for your viewing pleasure. The clothing will also most likely not make sense for whatever situation they are in.

But they can also be objectified through the way their character is portrayed, like maybe they are captured and it's up to the male character to save her, or maybe she is just useless at everything and the man has to show her how it's done. Basically, giving her no agency.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Melia as in Xenoblade's Melia?

Is she problematic? I don't particularly remember anything problematic about her, in fact she is the strongest character in Xenoblade. Her design is also fine. Probably the only fault I can think of is how attached she is to Shulk, but in the end she's actually becoming a rare character in that she's able to move forward from that all due to her own strength and no one else. You don't get many female character doing that in a videogame.

I mean, what is problematic about her?
I completely agree, she's one of my favorite characters in the game for the same reasons you list, and I don't think she's completely ruined by the one thing I dislike about her, but yeah, it's there, I talked about it here https://www.resetera.com/posts/1066304/
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
You can be sexy without having to show off your body, a woman can be sexy by the way she carries herself, she doesn't need to be stripped of most of her clothing to be sexy.

The ones objectified through their clothing usually show a lot of boob and/or their ass, basically wearing clothing that makes sure those parts of their body are very prominent, and the game and camera will most likely make sure that you aware that her body is out on display for your viewing pleasure. The clothing will also most likely not make sense for whatever situation they are in.

But they can also be objectified through the way their character is portrayed, like maybe they are captured and it's up to the male character to save her, or maybe she is just useless at everything and the man has to show her how it's done. Basically, giving her no agency.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I must ask though, if a female character merely shows unnecessary skin, e.g. cleavage, but isn't framed by the camerawork in a sexual way, while also having a fully developed character, would we still consider said character an example of objectification?

Or is objectification more of a combination of the above that reinforces the creator's intent to present a character for the sake of being a sexual object and little else?
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I must ask though, if a female character merely shows unnecessary skin, e.g. cleavage, but isn't framed by the camerawork in a sexual way, while also having a fully developed character, would we still consider said character an example of objectification?

Or is objectification more of a combination of the above that reinforces the creator's intent to present a character for the sake of being a sexual object and little else?

Intent matters the most and should be quite clear when playing a game. Just the key art alone doesn't tell the whole story.

Plenty of women and men like to dress in skimpy clothes and in a way that supports their best 'assets'.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Intent matters the most and should be quite clear when playing a game. Just the key art alone doesn't tell the whole story.

Plenty of women and men like to dress in skimpy clothes and in a way that supports their best 'assets'.

I agree. Thanks for the clarification.

Given then the importance of creator's intent, how would you judge a character like 2B from Nier Automata?

Would you say that she is an example of female objectification?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
I agree. Thanks for the clarification.

Given then the importance of creator's intent, how would you judge a character like 2B from Nier Automata?

Would you say that she is an example of female objectification?

The sexualised designs are canonical with the world the characters are in. Someone could make an argument defending them.

But, they have a trophy for looking up her skirt ten times, as well as a button to remove her clothes. And, if I recall the amount of clothes removed when 9S(male character) uses the same ability is far less.
While the camera doesn't ogle her, her underwear is still often visible during major plot cutscenes.

Also, I think A2 has a way more obnoxious design than 2B.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
The sexualised designs are canonical with the world the characters are in. Someone could make a decent argument defending them.

But, they have a trophy for looking up her skirt ten times, as well as a button to remove her clothes. And, if I recall the amount of clothes removed when 9S(male character) uses the same ability is far less.
While the camera doesn't ogle her, her underwear is still often visible during major plot cutscenes.

Also, I think A2 has a way more annoying design than 2B.

Pretty sure this isn't true.

There's an item in the game which does this. It's not a button on the controller though (unless that's something on the PC version).

Regardless, your point still stands.

So in light of the additional details, would you argue that 2B's design is and example of objectification, or would you say that those features of the game (e.g. the trophy and item to remove her dress) are designed to objectify the character?
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
So I just saw the new Xenoblade 2 rare blade design and...*sigh*



The worst part is that I actually went and dived into some of the leaks and there are some actually awesome designs later on in the game yet these are the characters they are featuring front and center.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
Pretty sure this isn't true.

There's an item in the game which does this. It's not a button on the controller though (unless that's something on the PC version).

Regardless, your point still stands.

So in light of the additional details, would you argue that 2B's design is and example of objectification, or would you say that those features of the game (e.g. the trophy and item to remove her dress) are designed to objectify the character?

The game objectifies her, by inviting the player to take part in the objectification. That would be my understanding

About her design, I dunno. It honestly doesn't feel that egregious on it's own. It becomes more apparent when you self destruct and see the amount of work they spent modelling her ass. Or when you hear Taro talk about it.

Again though, nudity on it's own isn't a problem, but the self destruct feels like a hamfisted way to let the player perv out on the 2B.
 

JNH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,301
France
Honestly that was the only thing I didn't like in Nier Automata. Auto destruction on 2B was too much fanservice for me, I simply did not use it after I tried it.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
2B isn't a secret, didn't her designer openly say that he creates characters that fit his fetishes. Now that said her design has more layers than that (like most designs), the pretty clothes and plentiful skin are a clear and cool contrast to the barren world of the game and the enemies. One could argue her clothes are explained in the lore of the game but that is just secondary, superfluous and added later to tie things together. The designer intention is clear here, she is meant to look sexy and exciting.

Now those 'blades' if I understand correctly are some kind of magical beings? Practicality is not very important in my opinion if that's the case.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
So I just saw the new Xenoblade 2 rare blade design and...*sigh*




The worst part is that I actually went and dived into some of the leaks and there are some actually awesome designs later on in the game yet these are the characters they are featuring front and center.

Honestly, I think it's partially a marketing ploy to attract Japanese gamers, since the series doesn't do so well over there. It's a depressing state of affairs, but a predictable one :/
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,393
I agree. Thanks for the clarification.

Given then the importance of creator's intent, how would you judge a character like 2B from Nier Automata?

Would you say that she is an example of female objectification?
Absolutely. Especially if we agree that intent matters, since the creator admitted he had her designed according to his fetishes, and gave her a skirt and high heel because "I like girls" (ugh, because girls can't wear anything else amirite). She wears a mini-skirt, high heels, and has a boob window. And then the game rewards the player repeatedly attempting to peek under her skirt with a trophy, etc.

2B is as pandering as they come. Personally, I think she looks really really stupid, if I want to play a so-called badass soldier robot I sure as hell don't want her to look like she's dressed for a Babymetal concert.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,807
2B is as pandering as they come. Personally, I think she looks really really stupid, if I want to play a so-called badass soldier robot I sure as hell don't want her to look like she's dressed for a Babymetal concert.

I love her and 9s's design. I love that gothic look. It's very unique. But that you can see her pants from the side, is one of the most dumb things ever.

I love jRPGs! But there really is problem with the representation of woman in them. Many are sexualized while their male counterparts aren't.
Thinking of my two favorite ones, Final Fantasy 15 and Nier Automata. Both have unneeded pandering in them. Nier with 2b and FF 15 with Cindy. Though i found Cindy's quite a bit worse, because of the leeching camera angles whenever she washes your car.

I would have thought that the need for most jRPGs to find an international audience, would have led to less pandering. But that doesn't seem to be the case. I mean, i feel like a hypocrite, saying that i want less sexualized characters, but still buying the games that have them in them. I don't know of a better way to tell pubs that i want less sexualized characters other than not buying their games. But i love many of them, despite them having these pandering designs.
 

MaskedNdi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.

These are stunning. I wish there were games that featured designs like this! I love color and beautiful textiles.

They look badass, I'd follow an adventuring party decked out like that wherever they were going :-)

To me what looks great about them is that, not only are they colourful and functional, but they look comfortable too. They are clothes designed for riding, shooting, fighting and generally adventuring through windswept plains and valleys, and so as well as having beautiful detail they look lived in. This mix of combat equipment with padding and detailed, thick clothing is the kind of stuff I wish we saw more of on adventurers in RPGs, rather than combat lingerie, ineffective scraps of metal and a severe lack of planning for the journey ahead.

Maybe I bang on about practicality too much but it's a huge part of worldbuilding for me, it makes characters look like they exist in that place outside of combat encounters, cut scenes and character creation.

It's definitely a part of worldbuilding for me too. It's much more difficult for me to get absorbed in a story or world when the character's costumes don't make any sense. For example, the Lost Planet games are supposed to be set on a planet with extreme cold weather conditions, but they still have female characters showing cleavage.

VEMiVvZ.jpg


It's hard to believe that the characters are dealing with dangerous weather conditions when characters aren't worried about protecting themselves from the cold. A lot of sexualized costumes actively make the game's story worse.

Hate having to ask this since i'm sure there is an answer I didn't see, is it possible to consume media and not be influenced by it because you know its bullshit, but still enjoy it yet never think of it as the norm and tell others the same? This might come off as a GGer kinda sounding thing since we all know it starts with "Just asking/etc"

I think it's hard to say how much or how little we are impacted by the media we consume. It can be difficult to see how media is influencing us. That said, you don't need to avoid a piece of media just because it's objectionable or harmful in some way! Personally, I think talking about these issues can help mitigate some of the damage it causes.

I'm more just baffled that people said absolutely nothing about Xenoblade's design issues until 2 and still blissfully make excuses for the previous titles even as they rip into this one.

People absolutely criticized costumes in Xenoblade (and Xenosaga) before this game. A quick Google search will bring up plenty of complaints about Sharla's armor. Still, XB2 is obviously getting more heat, and I think it's well-deserved. In XB2, the terrible costumes aren't just armors or optional costumes; they're the default outfits. Unlike other Xenoblade titles, this game doesn't allow you to change outfits, which means that players are forced to look at Pyra's thong.

Beyond that, the game heavily objectifies Pyra. There are jiggle physics in the trailers I've watched. The camera is frequently centered on her boobs and butt. Pyra even arches her back and sticks out her butt in cutscenes. She's not just a thong-wearing sword; she's actively being treated as a sex object. The rare Blade designs only make things worse. There are a few nice designs, but many of the Blades are hypersexualized, young-looking women. The Blades from Choco are particularly bad; they both look about 10 and are heavily sexualized. They went from censoring Lin's skimpier costumes in the west to commissioning hentai artists to create designs for the game.

Monolith Soft has gone out of their way to show me that they don't want women playing this game, so I'm going to skip it. This will be the first game in the entire Xeno series that I don't buy. I am willing to play games in spite of questionable content, but XB2 has pushed me past my breaking point. I hope Fire Emblem doesn't do the same.

I am sorry but it's mostly niche games with sexualized characters. I don't think i have played a "mainstream" game in recent memory full of sexy women.. And don't say Witcher..

You haven't played the Arkham games? Final Fantasy XV? Metal Gear Solid V? Any fighting games?

It's very frustrating that the games I like are plagued with this.

The games I enjoyed most this year were, Persona, Nier and Yakuza.

Same. It definitely bums me out.

I love her and 9s's design. I love that gothic look. It's very unique. But that you can see her pants from the side, is one of the most dumb things ever.

2B is actually wearing a leotard; the way her skirt is cut kind of mimics dance skirts. The problem is that her leotard is a thong that is specifically designed to look like panties. I will admit that I mostly like 2B's costume, even though it has some glaring issues. If you fixed the leotard and toned down the heels it would be pretty perfect.
 
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Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
I find it super disappointing how little Nintendo seems to care anymore about this crap in the games they develop. They went from being mocked for how family friendly they were to reinvigorating Fire Emblem as a series with waifus and otaku pandering, and now Xenoblade 2 looks disgusting in many places, yikes.

I had a look at that rare blades thread too and Jesus Christ, why. I legit feel embarrassed that I'm gonna buy that game.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,807
I find it super disappointing how little Nintendo seems to care anymore about this crap in the games they develop. They went from being mocked for how family friendly they were to reinvigorating Fire Emblem as a series with waifus and otaku pandering, and now Xenoblade 2 looks disgusting in many places, yikes.

I had a look at that rare blades thread too and Jesus Christ, why. I legit feel embarrassed that I'm gonna buy that game.

Yeah seems so counter intuitive that they would embrace it so fully. I just can't believe that doing all this heavy pandering has that much of an sales effect. But what do i know.
 

Mr. Blue Sky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
366
Concerning the rare blades in Xenoblade 2, I think it's pretty telling that, at least to my knowledge, both NoA and NoE have yet to actually post anything concerning them, it's only the official Xenoblade 2 account and NoJ on twitter doing so. I can't even imagine the reactions it'd bring if NoA were to start posting some of those on their facebook account or something.

Also what disappoints me is how some people are looking at the more tame female character designs in the game and writing them off as boring or in one case questioning if the character was actually female.
 
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