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Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I
Are you sure that its the same people who claim the same thing, and that its an all or nothing situation? (either every owner has it has a secondary system, or either every owner only owns a Switch). From my understanding, the main arguement about being a secondary system is that people mainly buy first party games on it, while getting multiplatform games elsewhere. Another arguement is that people say developers are leaving money on the table for not supporting the Switch, does this mean that they're arguing that all the Switch owners only owns a Switch? Otherwise they could just get the games elsewhere if they own other systems as well (multiplatform titles).

But regardless, the main reason why games sell well is because they are good. Competition matters, games can be overshadowed by other games, but bigger titles at least will probably find a way to sell if they're really good.

Switch is a primary system.

That's why indies are selling best on Switch. Indie support has been great. AAA support hasn't. People buy the best games on the system.


But Indies dont count as third party games or games for whatever reason. They clearly disprove not just 1st party games are selling and they clearly prove it's a primary system for most owners
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
I


Switch is a primary system.

That's why indies are selling best on Switch. Indie support has been great. AAA support hasn't. People buy the best games on the system.


But Indies dont count as third party games or games for whatever reason. They clearly disprove not just 1st party games are selling and they clearly prove it's a primary system for most owners

I don't think we can say that if you mean ports. Devs have to deal with the limitations of the Switch vs the PS4, XBO.

If you mean 3rd party exclusives, I think that's what publishers, devs should do. That was like an underrated pro about the Wii.

What ppl should do is stop worrying about prices, game bundles, etc on other platforms. If that stops some one from buying a 3rd party game on Switch, that's not how you support the platform as a customer.

That's like me not getting a game on sale on PS4 because the XBO had a better sale, even tho the PS4 is my main or only platform. Straight up bad performing games, I can understand.
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
According to NPD's Games Acquisition Monitor, at the end of Q1 ballpark of 70% of people in the U.S. that owned a Switch also owned a PS4 and/or an Xbox One. Cross ownership across all 3 consoles is pretty high compared to prior gens. Each system is differentiated enough that a big chunk of people that are into console gaming own multiple systems.

Now arguing primary vs secondary doesnt make any sense. Each box does its own thing and each does it well.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
I just realized something.

Either the One X is doing less than some ppl thought, or the Pro is doing more than what Sony said.

I know right now God of War had to boost Pro sales.

Both are just doing very well. Not a matter of X not selling as much as people think. More just both moving a good amount of units

As I mentioned earlier mid gen refreshes are here to stay.
 

v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
One key fact that unfortunately Mat didn't discuss is how Ps4 at 299.99$ was able to outsell Xbox at 199.99$ by a decent amount, it shows the strength of the brand, the fact that it's beating Switch in it's 2nd year at the same price is also remarkable.

Unfortunately he never goes into much about pricing differences and all, it's probably the most important factor for many people buying a Console.
 

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
Do we know why Spiderman PS4 is not available to preorder on Amazon US ? (Same with Amazon FR)
Sony and Amazon been on a lovers spart for several months already, but no side have disclosed why. So Amazon is not carrying many Sony products (they been on quarrels with Nintendo too in the past over the 3DS)
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
Both are just doing very well. Not a matter of X not selling as much as people think. More just both moving a good amount of units

As I mentioned earlier mid gen refreshes are here to stay.

Yep, both are doing very well. And refreshes are here to stay. And I don't know who the "some people" are that the poster you replied to are listening to, but they should stop listening to them.
 

Katana_Strikes

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,724
One key fact that unfortunately Mat didn't discuss is how Ps4 at 299.99$ was able to outsell Xbox at 199.99$ by a decent amount, it shows the strength of the brand, the fact that it's beating Switch in it's 2nd year at the same price is also remarkable.

Unfortunately he never goes into much about pricing differences and all, it's probably the most important factor for many people buying a Console.
Have we some loose estimates for HW sales, as you say a decent amount? But it is quite something when there's a huge price difference.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,744
Wow that's really impressive that the x has a similar ratio as the pro, i assumed the x would be niche considering it's price and late entry
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
Wow that's really impressive that the x has a similar ratio as the pro, i assumed the x would be niche considering it's price and late entry

Im honesty surprised its not a higher ratio than the pro. Microsoft pushed scorpio hard for a long time and designed it in a way that they can easily market it, its a premium console. The ps4 is a confused product in comparison, its a premium console that they designed to be affordable, which is paradoxical and prevented it from being either.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
Im honesty surprised its not a higher ratio than the pro. Microsoft pushed scorpio hard for a long time and designed it in a way that they can easily market it, its a premium console. The ps4 is a confused product in comparison, its a premium console that they designed to be affordable, which is paradoxical and prevented it from being either.

I mean at the end of the day X is still a $500 piece of hardware. That's a huge barrier for a large amount of consumers. The fact its selling as strongly as it is, is impressive imo.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I don't think we can say that if you mean ports. Devs have to deal with the limitations of the Switch vs the PS4, XBO.

If you mean 3rd party exclusives, I think that's what publishers, devs should do. That was like an underrated pro about the Wii.

What ppl should do is stop worrying about prices, game bundles, etc on other platforms. If that stops some one from buying a 3rd party game on Switch, that's not how you support the platform as a customer.

That's like me not getting a game on sale on PS4 because the XBO had a better sale, even tho the PS4 is my main or only platform. Straight up bad performing games, I can understand.

Many indie games are ports.

I don't get your point. Of course it depends on the game.
 
Dec 23, 2017
8,802
Skyrim was in the top 10 switch selling games as late as May NPD.
Doom made to the top 10 switch games as late as January 2018.
Both have had or still have presence in eShop top sellers.
Skyrim still top 12 or so on Amazon best sellers for Switch.
Bethesda expressed satisfaction with sales.
Both Doom and Skyrim are still basically full price.


Do you have any reason to believe they DIDN'T do well? Or are you just assuming based on what exactly?

The only major third party games released for Switch are mario rabbids and octopath. Both sold over a million. Not sure they even count as AAA.
I guess that's just it. I'm not bashing the games just would like to know how much they sold. We got a legit number from octopath because I assume square thought a million number was successful. I never seen situations where publishers don't like giving good numbers out. Just want to know what they sold a solid number. Maybe the number isn't as good as they would have like. That's fine. I just want to know what they sold. Same goes for nba 2k18, Fifa18, La Noire, etc. would be nice to know how the switch owners received those games.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
One key fact that unfortunately Mat didn't discuss is how Ps4 at 299.99$ was able to outsell Xbox at 199.99$ by a decent amount, it shows the strength of the brand, the fact that it's beating Switch in it's 2nd year at the same price is also remarkable.

Unfortunately he never goes into much about pricing differences and all, it's probably the most important factor for many people buying a Console.

I can't remember which one (maybe March or April) but the one month X1 didn't have prolonged discounts it was barely up YoY.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I guess that's just it. I'm not bashing the games just would like to know how much they sold. We got a legit number from octopath because I assume square thought a million number was successful. I never seen situations where publishers don't like giving good numbers out. Just want to know what they sold a solid number. Maybe the number isn't as good as they would have like. That's fine. I just want to know what they sold. Same goes for nba 2k18, Fifa18, La Noire, etc. would be nice to know how the switch owners received those games.

So you just ignore my evidence and continue with your unsupported narrative.

Publishers have expressed explicitly the opposite for most of the games you listed. The only one less clear was Fifa.

How about this. Give me numbers for what you think each of those games should sell on Switch. When numbers come out, we have some baseline for expectations.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
I guess that's just it. I'm not bashing the games just would like to know how much they sold. We got a legit number from octopath because I assume square thought a million number was successful. I never seen situations where publishers don't like giving good numbers out. Just want to know what they sold a solid number. Maybe the number isn't as good as they would have like. That's fine. I just want to know what they sold. Same goes for nba 2k18, Fifa18, La Noire, etc. would be nice to know how the switch owners received those games.
Bethesda is privately owned, so they are less beholden to external stakeholders who want to be kept in the know as much as possible. Bethesda has hardly never put out numbers, except for TES games, and usually when a new release in the series is announced. They just don't work the same way as many publishers do.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
One key fact that unfortunately Mat didn't discuss is how Ps4 at 299.99$ was able to outsell Xbox at 199.99$ by a decent amount, it shows the strength of the brand, the fact that it's beating Switch in it's 2nd year at the same price is also remarkable.

Unfortunately he never goes into much about pricing differences and all, it's probably the most important factor for many people buying a Console.
PS4 has most the games Xbox has plus more so more people would go there. Plus God of War hype.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
Many indie games are ports.

I don't get your point. Of course it depends on the game.

My point was what I bolded in that quote, AAA games.

Saying indies support has been great and AAA support hasn't, I don't think it's as clear cut as that.

I also mentioned 3rd play exclusives. I think that's what they should focus on, octopath traveler is just one example.
 
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test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
It may not have been clear from my post, but what I was referring to was the type of convoluted logic, not the argument itself. I was actually thinking of a few "higher up" people who I specifically saw say "3rd party games won't sell on Nintendo systems", and then go on and use any remote example (that really shouldn't be used) to show it is the same story on Switch, while games that prove otherwise "don't count"for different reasons.
Personally I believe that Switch is not your typical Nintendo system in that regard, and its audience is quite different in most countries from past systems.
I understand.


Switch is a primary system.

That's why indies are selling best on Switch. Indie support has been great. AAA support hasn't. People buy the best games on the system.


But Indies dont count as third party games or games for whatever reason. They clearly disprove not just 1st party games are selling and they clearly prove it's a primary system for most owners
Yeah, its a primary system for many, indeed. For others, its not. I just wanted to say that its not 100% one sided (as being a secondary system for everyone), it variates from person to person.

I'm not sure thatanyone is saying that they dont count and nothing more. In what sense wouldnt they count? If something sells well, people cant really argue against those facts alone. If people say that they dont count, i would guess that its because they're thinking more about bigger budget games.
 
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Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
HEY MAT I SEE A BATMAN LOGO IN YOUR PICTURE WHY ARE YOU FANBOY FOR DCGU

Because I really like comic, cartoon and video game Batman. Can also see my sweet signed Batman thing in the YouTube vids, think it has 12 of the 16 major artists that have drawn Batman over the years that signed it. Have never liked the films though.
 

Sonicfan059

Member
Mar 4, 2018
3,024
One key fact that unfortunately Mat didn't discuss is how Ps4 at 299.99$ was able to outsell Xbox at 199.99$ by a decent amount, it shows the strength of the brand, the fact that it's beating Switch in it's 2nd year at the same price is also remarkable.

Unfortunately he never goes into much about pricing differences and all, it's probably the most important factor for many people buying a Console.
Yeah that really is a feat. I remember when they both launched and lots of people were saying PS4 was only selling better because it was $100 cheaper and that may have had a decent impact initially but here we are 5 years later and it was $100 more and still outselling it.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
Because I really like comic, cartoon and video game Batman. Can also see my sweet signed Batman thing in the YouTube vids, think it has 12 of the 16 major artists that have drawn Batman over the years that signed it. Have never liked the films though.

Yo thats cool as hell

I'm jealous
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
My point was what I bolded in that quote, AAA games.

Saying indies support has been great and AAA support hasn't, I don't think it's as clear cut as that.

I also mentioned 3rd play exclusives. I think that's what they should focus on, octopath traveler is just one example.

AAA support has been great? Haha. Right...

There's two major third party exclusives. Rabbids and octopath. Anything else? Both have done well.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
AAA support has been great? Haha. Right...

There's two major third party exclusives. Rabbids and octopath. Anything else? Both have done well.
I feel like you are not reading my posts or reading them right?

Never said AAA support was great. I said if it's ports it's not that simple and they need to focus on 3rd party exclusives.

I even said 3rd party exclusives was an underrated pro about the Wii...
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
12,990
Wow that's really impressive that the x has a similar ratio as the pro, i assumed the x would be niche considering it's price and late entry

The Xbox One X had a huge marketing campaign during launch and has been heavily pushed all this year. The PS4 Pro had a soft launch in comparison (probably because they chose to focus on launching PSVR) and it took nearly a year and a half for them to make a real PS4 Pro commercial as we saw for the first time earlier this year.

Given how much money MS put into marketing the X, it would have to be performing strongly.

Sometimes I feel like people treat Xbox like the kid with asthma who people cheer for just for finishing a race when they have a ton of financial muscle to be more competitive in the market than either Sony or Nintendo
 

Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Another way to look at it (not mine...) - if a third party say they are happy with sales on the Switch (or any Nintendo system for that matter), they are lying.

From what I've noticed, ironically the same people that think this way (with some exceptions) also consider anything that can even remotely be considered negative (including anonymous reports, especially those actually) as the absolute truth, and then go on and generalize it to be the absolute truth for all games for the console in question ...

Just something I observed.
Yep -- any good news about Nintendo has to be downplayed in some way, especially if it's about third parties. Whether it's "Switch owners are thirsty for games," "Indies don't count," "It's published by Nintendo so it doesn't count," or just plain "They're lying," some people just can't stand the idea of treating a Nintendo system on the same parity as other consoles and need to spin things in the worst way possible.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
The Xbox One X had a huge marketing campaign during launch and has been heavily pushed all this year. The PS4 Pro had a soft launch in comparison (probably because they chose to focus on launching PSVR) and it took nearly a year and a half for them to make a real PS4 Pro commercial as we saw for the first time earlier this year.

Given how much money MS put into marketing the X, it would have to be performing strongly.

Sometimes I feel like people treat Xbox like the kid with asthma who people cheer for just for finishing a race when they have a ton of financial muscle to be more competitive in the market than either Sony or Nintendo

I'm cheering Xbox because they've had a significantly better 2018 than 2017. Simple. They made so many blunders at the start of this generation that all the marketing muscle in the world isn't going to put them on top. They're doing very well right now given those circumstances.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I'm not sure the point of mid-gen refreshes as a general rule.

The Xbox One X (jesus, it's still such a horrible name) and PS4 Pro can make games render in 4K and many people have 4K TVs.

I don't think the PS5 and Xbox 4 are going to be facing a mid-gen problem of a bunch of people having 8K TVs that would make a mid-gen upgrade worth it.

Other than a resolution boost, I'm not sure what a mid-gen upgrade could really bring that developers could easily add to their games and that consumers would like.

The New 3DS was mostly useful for games that ran like garbage on the normal 3DS (like Xenoblade or Hyrule Warriors) and there won't be many games that run like garbage on the PS5 or Xbox 4. I don't think any developer made serious texture or effects changes to their 3DS game for the New 3DS version.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
I think its a good way to keep the consoles from getting stale and reducing the amount of people they lose to PC when a generation drags on like the PS3/360 generation did. Even without resolution bumps they can use PC assets or increase IQ/draw distance/etc with a more powerful machine.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,840
I think its a good way to keep the consoles from getting stale and reducing the amount of people they lose to PC when a generation drags on like the PS3/360 generation did. Even without resolution bumps they can use PC assets or increase IQ/draw distance/etc with a more powerful machine.

Yep.

Pro and X has sold really well, it'll happen again.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
12,990
I'm cheering Xbox because they've had a significantly better 2018 than 2017. Simple. They made so many blunders at the start of this generation that all the marketing muscle in the world isn't going to put them on top. They're doing very well right now given those circumstances.

Many of their disasters were averted before launch.Many things which were announced in June 2013 that upset consumers were reversed in July 2013, with Kinect being the barrier that drove the price up and was even eventually removed in the first half of 2014.

MS was just a little slow to react on some issues and no one knew how the PS4 would rocket to the top of the market with how many issues consumers had with the PS3.

Now THAT was a nightmare scenario for a console maker. If the Xbox One was a PS3 situation for MS, I am unsure if they would have been able to recover.
 

donny2112

Member
Oct 27, 2017
620
Doesnt matter as individuals but what the majority does.
And again going by that retailers have nit liquidated stock or pull price cuts (see gundam game example)
I wonder how far it goes the narrative that labp is not rotating
Worth pointing out that, unless things have changed in the last few years, Nintendo is one of the few companies to not offer price protection on their games to retailers. That means that if retailers cut prices without the go-ahead from Nintendo, the retailers have to eat the difference. That is not the case with other publishers but has historically been the case with Nintendo. That's one of the reasons that their games hold price for so long. Therefore, the lack of retailers slashing prices does not necessarily mean that everything's fine (itsfine.jpg). It could also mean that retailers aren't desperate enough to take the loss on themselves to clear the kits out the door.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
Worth pointing out that, unless things have changed in the last few years, Nintendo is one of the few companies to not offer price protection on their games to retailers. That means that if retailers cut prices without the go-ahead from Nintendo, the retailers have to eat the difference. That is not the case with other publishers but has historically been the case with Nintendo. That's one of the reasons that their games hold price for so long. Therefore, the lack of retailers slashing prices does not necessarily mean that everything's fine (itsfine.jpg). It could also mean that retailers aren't desperate enough to take the loss on themselves to clear the kits out the door.
This is interesting. I know it's something many of us didn't know until just now, lol.
 
Dec 23, 2017
8,802
So you just ignore my evidence and continue with your unsupported narrative.

Publishers have expressed explicitly the opposite for most of the games you listed. The only one less clear was Fifa.

How about this. Give me numbers for what you think each of those games should sell on Switch. When numbers come out, we have some baseline for expectations.
Again not trying to bash them. I would just like to see the numbers. You are coming off as me trying to be negative. I would just like to know what the games sold. I mean cool if the publisher says they are satisfied with the sales on switch. I would just like to know what they actually sold. Could take a look at a site like VGCharts but they aren't accurate. That would give an idea though. Would like to see umbers that prove switch third party games are successful.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
Yep -- any good news about Nintendo has to be downplayed in some way, especially if it's about third parties. Whether it's "Switch owners are thirsty for games," "Indies don't count," "It's published by Nintendo so it doesn't count," or just plain "They're lying," some people just can't stand the idea of treating a Nintendo system on the same parity as other consoles and need to spin things in the worst way possible.
To be fair, if the discussion is making a distinction between 1st party and 3rd party, i think its fair enough to point out if a game is published by e.g Nintendo, which makes it a 1st party title. In the end though, it might be discussed how much it really matters. I mean, ultimately, its about if a game is successful or not regardless of who publish it.
 
Jul 23, 2018
158
Pretty amazing how Ps4 is still doing gangbusters, feels like it's been 299 for a very long time and xbox is almost always been cheaper so far in 2018.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
I'm cheering Xbox because they've had a significantly better 2018 than 2017. Simple. They made so many blunders at the start of this generation that all the marketing muscle in the world isn't going to put them on top. They're doing very well right now given those circumstances.

Dont waste your time. That poster literally comes in with the same schtick every single month in NPD threads
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Again not trying to bash them. I would just like to see the numbers. You are coming off as me trying to be negative. I would just like to know what the games sold. I mean cool if the publisher says they are satisfied with the sales on switch. I would just like to know what they actually sold. Could take a look at a site like VGCharts but they aren't accurate. That would give an idea though. Would like to see umbers that prove switch third party games are successful.

We would all like to know.

There's plenty of numbers for other games. We got numbers last year for rabbids, plenty of indies have released games but not all. Lack of numbers doesn't mean not successful.

Think stardew valley not successful on Switch?
We don't have numbers. Must have bombed.
 

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
Worth pointing out that, unless things have changed in the last few years, Nintendo is one of the few companies to not offer price protection on their games to retailers. That means that if retailers cut prices without the go-ahead from Nintendo, the retailers have to eat the difference. That is not the case with other publishers but has historically been the case with Nintendo. That's one of the reasons that their games hold price for so long. Therefore, the lack of retailers slashing prices does not necessarily mean that everything's fine (itsfine.jpg). It could also mean that retailers aren't desperate enough to take the loss on themselves to clear the kits out the door.
Not sure how exactly it works for big retailers but im sure is common logic that if you sell under MSRP, you are gonna take the hit yourself in the difference and you really really want to liquidate stock.
As always, everything is speculation till we get numbers+ Nintendo internal goal, but personally, retailers not desperate to kill stock os the glass half full
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
Not sure how exactly it works for big retailers but im sure is common logic that if you sell under MSRP, you are gonna take the hit yourself in the difference and you really really want to liquidate stock.

Nope. Publishers either do price protection, which refunds to the retailer the full wholesale cost of the retailer dropping the price for all units in that retailers inventory, or a publisher will pay a back end rebate if a retailer drops the price temporarily wherein the retailer reports how many units sold on the temporary price drop and the publisher refunds the price difference to the retailers for those units.

It is often only in the very rare cases of final liquidation or when a publisher goes out of business that a retailer will take a cost hit for a price drop.

Of course the retailer can do whatever they want with price and take a margin hit if they so choose.
 
Dec 23, 2017
8,802