Let's not derail this thread with more James Gunn discussion - if you want to discuss that, feel free to go here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/james-gunn-in-demand-after-disney-studio-firing.60796/
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It's Becoming Increasingly Clear that DC/WB Have No Idea What They're Doing With Their Movies
- Thread starter SOLDIER
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I some some small amount of faith that they'll get things on track now that Snyder seems to have been excised. Aquaman and Shazam both look to have potential based on their trailers and the talent involved, and Matt Reeves is one of the best blockbuster directors currently working so I believe his Batman will be good (whether it stars Afleck or not.)
You forgot the most important one which is currently shooting. The Wonder Woman sequel.
He's not wrong, though. Doctor Strange is trite sludge.
Sure, Aquaman will probably do okay numbers but the dialogue is horrible from trailers which says a lot considering they had forever to put this trailer together and that was the best they could cobble up.
Momoa looks so utterly flaccid as a lead, probably the most uninteresting one this side of Man of Steel Cavill and Dr. Strange Cumberbatch - except significantly less talented an actor than either.
Buddy, he was coming off the TDK trilogy and a frequently marketed Nolan producer credit. He was working from an already high vantage point.
The fact that the DCEU is in shambles TODAY is directly because of his efforts and inability to craft decent films hence the critical panning. What do you think caused the drastic drop from BvS to JL in opening weekend?
MCU had Hulk and some nobodies to work with.
DCEU had the entire repertoire of characters at its disposal and still made less than Doctor Strange with its cumulative teamup movie.
This is good to you?
Which is their fault.
How does this affect box office potential? No one was going to turn up to a Snyder joint again regardless.
You're wrong in that bragging about the DCEU's 'accomplishments' is like bragging that a trust fund kid ended up working at some mid-sized firm for the rest of his life earning $50k.
Right. There is no grandiose plan, so let's forget about a DC Cinematic Universe, and that's... fine.
Now, Shazam signs a brighter Golden Age future of solo films. So there's that. And Wonder Woman showed people like Patty Jenkins can direct parts of the trainwreck of the DCEU to more coherent and Captain America-like levels of optimism and joy.
And even if there are more stuff like Suicide Squad, MoS, or BvS to come, nice discussions and memes will come out of there :v
And look it at this way, DC butchered their two biggest properties so bad, that now we actually have good chances of getting a Batgirl or a Supergirl film instead of yet another Batman film or reboot of Superman. So if there's a bad movie about Joker or Harley Quinn, they might even reconsider what villians use, instead focusing on lesser known characters for a while. T.hat Black Adam film, for example, so we'll get a Fawcett smaller Universe of films, then maybe a Milestone one :D
Now, Shazam signs a brighter Golden Age future of solo films. So there's that. And Wonder Woman showed people like Patty Jenkins can direct parts of the trainwreck of the DCEU to more coherent and Captain America-like levels of optimism and joy.
And even if there are more stuff like Suicide Squad, MoS, or BvS to come, nice discussions and memes will come out of there :v
And look it at this way, DC butchered their two biggest properties so bad, that now we actually have good chances of getting a Batgirl or a Supergirl film instead of yet another Batman film or reboot of Superman. So if there's a bad movie about Joker or Harley Quinn, they might even reconsider what villians use, instead focusing on lesser known characters for a while. T.hat Black Adam film, for example, so we'll get a Fawcett smaller Universe of films, then maybe a Milestone one :D
I was watching Collider Heroes the other day where they were talking about the news of Supergirl possibly getting a movie and how it might be used to reintroduce Superman back into the DCEU and as they were trying to muster up excitement about the news and speculate about all the possibilities, they hit the inevitable sticking point that there may not even be this movie or even most of the movies they've announced and while I can tell they didn't want to get stuck on that negativity, it's just the reality of the DCEU. I missed how Jon Schnepp dealt with it at this point since he just accepted that, yeah, WB is still basically throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks and basically all the "news" we get from DC is leaks about ideas that are being tossed around that could change tomorrow. Even directors and writers being attached to a project don't mean shit. They should just stop talking about it and let people know when they have something to show for it. Even all the hype fans had about Geoff Johns fixing the DCEU didn't amount to shit. They really need to put up or shut up.
Aquaman looks lame but if reviews are alright, it's basically the last chance I'm giving the DCEU. Shazam looks like it could be good though. Why can't that be the blueprint going forward? Not that everything has to be comedic/campy/meta but just make a movie and let it be it's own thing with it's own look and tone, don't inundate us with info trying to hype people up, and when it's ready, just let people be naturally curious about what it's about and let the movie speak for itself. It' goes beyond them needing a Kevin Feige or directors with visions, they need to get new marketing/PR people handling the DC brand.
Aquaman looks lame but if reviews are alright, it's basically the last chance I'm giving the DCEU. Shazam looks like it could be good though. Why can't that be the blueprint going forward? Not that everything has to be comedic/campy/meta but just make a movie and let it be it's own thing with it's own look and tone, don't inundate us with info trying to hype people up, and when it's ready, just let people be naturally curious about what it's about and let the movie speak for itself. It' goes beyond them needing a Kevin Feige or directors with visions, they need to get new marketing/PR people handling the DC brand.
I think it is because the fans are too desperate for a good movie, now that MCU is becoming much stronger and DCEU is looking shit in contrast.
They should have call out those mistakes and whip WB/DC into shape and not give WB/DC free passes.
And DCEU's future is in a bigger mess than before. We got Justice League Dark. We got a Batman movie that we have conflicting statement every 2 weeks on whether Ben Affleck is in it. Countless movies surrounding Harley Quinn like Suicide Squad 2, Bird of Prey, Gotham City Sirens and whatever bs. a Black Adam movie. A nightwing movie. A Batgirl movie. A Deathstroke, a Joker prequel, new Gods etc. Feels like DC/WB is just throwing rubbish onto the wall and see what sticks now.
And looking at what they show for upcoming movies like Aquaman, Wonder Woman 2 and shazam so far, it seems they still haven't learn and see why Marvel is so successful.
They should have call out those mistakes and whip WB/DC into shape and not give WB/DC free passes.
- Time and time again we said they should spend time doing some world building by having solo movies before the ensemble movie, but they keep pointing to Seven Samurai movie and remain in denial. No shock, the entire thing blew up and DCEU is a major failure so far. (but look at GOTG! nope, GOTG isn't an ensemble movie and they wouldn't work successfully in solo movie)
- Jared Leto's Joker is a joke (no pun intended). But back on the old forum, the fanboys helm him as some savior and damage control the new look of Joker with those try-hard shitty tattoos. He's a failure in the movie. The fans are repeating it again with the new actor for the new Joker
- When Doomsday was revealed for BvS, it was pointed out that (1)WB has revealed too much of the story (2)BvS is overstuffed with Batman introduction, BvsS, Lex Luthor, Wonder Woman cameo, set up for future movies etc and now Doomsday. The fanboys said that having Doomsday is a necessity as he will serve to unit the heroes at the end of the movie as they can't end the movie in bad terms, and people shouldn't be surprised. Adding salt to that wound, Captain America: Civil Wars released a short while later, and despite being said to have some sort of Marvel movie formula, ended up changing the status quo by having the Avengers broke up and ended up becoming the better movie
- It was apparent that the Suicide Squad reshoot is a warning sign that its gonna be yet another mess based on trailers and others. But nope, its just some reshoot similar to all other movies according to the fanboys. And unexpected to many non-fans, it IS a mess.
And DCEU's future is in a bigger mess than before. We got Justice League Dark. We got a Batman movie that we have conflicting statement every 2 weeks on whether Ben Affleck is in it. Countless movies surrounding Harley Quinn like Suicide Squad 2, Bird of Prey, Gotham City Sirens and whatever bs. a Black Adam movie. A nightwing movie. A Batgirl movie. A Deathstroke, a Joker prequel, new Gods etc. Feels like DC/WB is just throwing rubbish onto the wall and see what sticks now.
And looking at what they show for upcoming movies like Aquaman, Wonder Woman 2 and shazam so far, it seems they still haven't learn and see why Marvel is so successful.
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For sure but I meant beyond 2019 for known DCEU films released in 2020. Though it could be the case we'll get the Joker movie next year if the production finishes fast enough.
Fake news. Sad.
Yeah it remains to be seen if Momoa can really step up to the plate leading a movie. I think he realizes how make or break this is for him. At least on the larger scale. He'll still be able to pick up the smaller stuff like his Netflix series.
Even in the worst case scenario Wan will still deliver a entertaining movie. Fast 7 had awful acting from pretty much everyone while remaining a fun as hell movie.
I'm mainly just expecting old school action adventure vibes. I suppose we'll see.
Man, his trailer lines really don't give me confidence at all. He sounds like a side character even in his own movie.
"That was the worst pep talk, ever!"
Yeesh.
I thought Fast 7 was horrible, too.
Let's get one thing straight, Justice League Mortal was a casualty of the writers strike, not incompetence at DC. Snyder is out and there have been some pretty obvious changes at the top. With the trailers for aquaman and shazam out you can really tell that changes are coming to the dceu so I'm willing to play the waiting game at this point.
MOS was a slightly rushed production and he had to knock it out because WB were worried about losing the rights. Superman Returns was coming off the critical highs of Batman Begins, had a way higher RT score, made like $250 million dollars less and was forgotten about as soon as it came. No one was building shit of SR.
People didn't like the movies for a variety of reasons. A lot of the reasons can be summed up as it's only a crime when Zack Snyder does it as well as cutting a movie down by 30 mins that needed every minute for its story.
Congrats to Marvel for that. Ironically the fact it was filled with no bodies was a great strength to Marvel since they could make huge changes and no one will bitch about shit like where is Donald Blake. You forget the DCEU worked with nobodies and whilst critically shat on, Suicide Squad made bank without China. Captain America was used as a metaphor for a super soldier and patriotism in the same way Wonder Woman was before the film. Wonder Woman made over double Captain America.
Have i ever said JL didn't heavily underperform. Yes despite making less than half of Avengers the average DCEU movie made more than the average MCU film/
Who knows
At the end of the day name another cinematic universe that is around other than the MCU. Dark Universe? At the end of the day, despite how much critically maligned the DCEU films are, they still made a lot of money and story wise there is nothing irredeemable. JL is their floor, their ceiling could be anywhere.
Edit: Oh and i forgot to mention it's Zack Snyder's Academy Award Winning DCEU. DC didn't have to create their own category to be in the running for an Oscar.
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Having no idea what they're doing and doing it in one of the worst ways they could has been apparent since 2013 when they made a movie written by and directed by guys who share a lot of the John Peters mindset for Superman.
Their vision for their movies is a weak imitation of what Marvel is doing with some surface level aesthetic differences.
It's like that season of television we got around ten years ago when everyone was trying to make 1960s period pieces because Mad Men was so successful.
It's like that season of television we got around ten years ago when everyone was trying to make 1960s period pieces because Mad Men was so successful.
I mean Aquaman and WW1984 look good and I'm guessing a lot of the other announced films will simply wither and die. Isn't there new management there too? It is a shame the last few DC films except WW have been trash, but it's not undoable.
I asked the same thing in the DCTV thread back when the trailer released.
The DC service entirely relies on fans paying to watch that stuff when
Older folks want
Lower middle people want
Kids know and like this
You can literally satisfy 2 of the 3 fanbases at the same time.....
and you decide to go with the awful universally hated tone of the movies and the one the movie heads themselves further ruined a movie just to ditch that tone.
With a mature rating the people old enough for it certainly don't want that edgy crap,
yet the small edgy teen niche that would think its cool are out of the rating demographic.
You can't even pull in the fanbases of the successful CW shows.
It just blows my mind how off everything about Titans is looking so far.
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Lmaoo this has been known from time
Snyder being the mastermind of a universe was such an odd choice from the jump
Snyder being the mastermind of a universe was such an odd choice from the jump
This seems relevant to this thread: Supposedly no cameos or connections to the other movies will feature in Aquaman.
"I wanted to keep the story to the world of Aquaman and not have to worry about what other characters are doing in their films and how that would affect us. I just thought the simplest way was to keep it clean — keep it simple and let it be an Aquaman story." Wan said in his interview with Entertainment Weekly. "I told them I understand and respect that it's part of a bigger universe but at the end of the day I have to tell the story I want to tell, and I want to develop the character as well."
Wonder if WW84 alos will take this approach. To just ignore the JL franchise and do its own thing.
"I wanted to keep the story to the world of Aquaman and not have to worry about what other characters are doing in their films and how that would affect us. I just thought the simplest way was to keep it clean — keep it simple and let it be an Aquaman story." Wan said in his interview with Entertainment Weekly. "I told them I understand and respect that it's part of a bigger universe but at the end of the day I have to tell the story I want to tell, and I want to develop the character as well."
Wonder if WW84 alos will take this approach. To just ignore the JL franchise and do its own thing.
Snyder and incompetent WB management are largely at fault for the state of the DC movies. Putting your faith in a director whose best film peaks at okay was never a sound choice. It was as uninspiring a pick as they could have made after giving Nolan the keys to Batman for a decade.
Nevertheless, the films seem to be heading in the right direction and there should be some optimism in a post-Snyder world. Both Wan and Jenkins should be backed in to deliver fun movies and Shazam looked incredibly enjoyable based on the trailer.
What the universe needs, more than anything, is a coherent blue print and plan. There appears to be a lot of announcements but no coherent plan. Batman is up in the air but they are producing a range of films set in Gotham. Superman is in flux but we are introducing Supergirl. The whole thing seems unnecessarily complex. They should instead identify their core characters, deliver solid films based on those characters and then look to introduce minor characters.
Nevertheless, the films seem to be heading in the right direction and there should be some optimism in a post-Snyder world. Both Wan and Jenkins should be backed in to deliver fun movies and Shazam looked incredibly enjoyable based on the trailer.
What the universe needs, more than anything, is a coherent blue print and plan. There appears to be a lot of announcements but no coherent plan. Batman is up in the air but they are producing a range of films set in Gotham. Superman is in flux but we are introducing Supergirl. The whole thing seems unnecessarily complex. They should instead identify their core characters, deliver solid films based on those characters and then look to introduce minor characters.
Pretty much. They messed up their movie universe and they're trying to salvage whatever they can. They have some big stars on contract and they don't want to scrap the whole thing and start over because some of the movies were successful. Only a full reboot will clean the slate and allow WB to try and get it right the second time.
You have to remember though that Nolan was given "the keys" to Batman at like, 2003 to 2004-ish. That was a *wildly* different movie industry landscape. Nolan at the time was also a promising up and coming director but not nearly as huge as he is now. I think there is a version that could have played out where Snyder made bland but competent movies and provided a solid jumping off point for WB to build upon.
I'm gonna go and make a hot take statement and say that we'll not be getting comic book movies like The Dark Knight Trilogy until the current cinematic-connected-universe studio system utterly utterly fails and collapses. You cannot make movies like The Dark Knight in the current studio system.
What they did in ww was the exact same thing marvel did in the early mcu movies.
Tiny connections that only connected the movies to a greater universe.
It's only lately that mcu movies are more characters per movies.
Look at the phase I movies and phase III ones, besides the avengers- the have tiny call outs to the greater universe but don't have real connections besides that.
That is how you make a connected universe. Not throw characters into movies for no reason.
I'm confused, your defense of Man of Steel's middling reviews and underperformance relative to expectations - when Warner Bros. was expecting a number closer to a billion - is to argue that Superman Returns did worse? Do I have that right?
"It's not that this movie did so bad, other movies did worse!"
Listen, buddy, it's okay that Snyder makes movies that aren't well-received by the audience nor critics - aka everybody. You need to accept this. There isn't some grand conspiracy to knock this guy down a few pegs, just like I'm going to assume there isn't a grand conspiracy on your part to overinflate his calibur as a director.
His best-reviewed film is Dawn of the Dead, a remake at 75%. Sucker Punch was eviscerated. 300 and Watchmen are in the 60s. Man of Steel is split down the line. Notice a trend? He's not some fledgling prodigy, Critics didn't suddenly just wake up one day in 2013 and think, "you know what, I hate this guy! Let's unfairly malign his work!"
If your only excuse for Snyder's less-than-ideal critical performance with the DCEU is 'bias' when he's never been liked as a director from Day One, step back from the screen and understand that you're a guy who spends all his time in the DC fan threads accusing professional critics who watch thousands of films a year of bias.
How logical does that sound?
DCEU worked with nobodies? It started with Superman, added Batman and Wonder Woman to the mix, the entire Justice League, Joker, and still only grossed equal to Phase 1 of the MCU.
Phase 1 MCU, which I repeat, had Hulk and a bunch of C-list scrubs.
That statistic just underlines how much of a catastrophic failure Justice League was. Justice League was supposed to be the kickoff point much like Avengers 2012 was for the MCU. The gathering of the Trinity plus a handful of other extremely well-known superheroes, and it opens to under $100 million.
There isn't as much interest in the DCEU as there was two years ago when BvS first opened. It's heavily waned, and that has to do directly with the work of Snyder that's weakened the entire foundation that Nolan built.
If you don't know, stop mentioning it as a debilitating factor to the DCEU's performance.
The Monsterverse?
Justice League is not their floor, Aquaman is. Their ceiling? I would say a billion is their ceiling for the foreseeable future, I can't see any upcoming DCEU film coming close.
LOOOOOOL
Wait, you're serious?
I have faith because I love their vision of a dark and gritty cinematic superhero universe :)
Suicide Squad is one of my favorite films of all time and BvS is an absolute joy to watch
Suicide Squad is one of my favorite films of all time and BvS is an absolute joy to watch
OP
OP
I think i can still give them another chance.
The snyder stuff might be controversial, but i can understand those who claim to like them.
Beyond those, booth SS and JL suffered from over zealous editors and internal drama, and Wonder Woman proved that when free from those, it isn't that hard to make a good movie.
Hence why i'm at-least exited for The Aquaman/Original Captain Marvel movie. Booth so far at-least sound like production has gone smoothly.
The snyder stuff might be controversial, but i can understand those who claim to like them.
Beyond those, booth SS and JL suffered from over zealous editors and internal drama, and Wonder Woman proved that when free from those, it isn't that hard to make a good movie.
Hence why i'm at-least exited for The Aquaman/Original Captain Marvel movie. Booth so far at-least sound like production has gone smoothly.
