The end goal of preservation is access... because copyright is so fucked right now, there has to be a way to keep the art safe until they enter the public domain, or copyright law is reformed.
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EmuParadise no longer providing ROM download links
- Thread starter WetWaffle
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It doesn't need to be free, but it does need to be available.
My apologies for assuming too much based on what you're saying.
I somewhat disagree that markup on older rare games is reasonable. If you value the physical item, yes. That is indeed rare and has some value. If you are someone that just wants to experience the game, then you are left wondering why something that could be infinitely available digitally is priced as if there are only a handful of copies in existence. For example, I've spent hundreds in markup on old Collectors Edition boxes for WoW. Didn't even get the game because it was a digital key, but the physical item had value to me and I could only obtain it for that price. If I just cared about the game, I could acquire it digitally for a significantly lower price. I hope one day this is how everything is and I think if older games were made available on a digital store for a reasonable price, emulation would go down. People that still wanted that physical version due to rarity could still spend the money for it, but those are priced for collectors and those prices are preventing people that just want to play the game from doing so.
Counterfeit games existed before Emuparadise
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...stroying_counterfeit_games_with_a_steamroller
Well, let's see. Emuparadise had been serving ROMs for 18 years. Whose pockets did they hurt in any significant manner? Nintendo, Capcom, Konami, Sega...the most-pirated publishers all still around and doing well. Hell, even their re-releases of old games do well, despite often being over-priced, and easily pirateable. So where's the harm?
Some of you don't seem to think critically about laws, and just accept at face value that anything illegal must be unethical/immoral.
I think some people are allowed to be unhappy about this news, insomuch that others really shouldn't dictate directly to them about how they should think and/or feel about it.
Then make it available easily and reasonably. If you don't then by what means can it be experienced? Emulation.
There's been countless times over the years when beta copies of older games are found and go up for auction and end up being locked away by someone who thinks they'll have something to retire on or "hold it for ransom" to people who will archive it and release it online.
If companies provided means for us to play these games in reasonable way, in financially reasonable way, as in, let me buy it and NOT stream it. Then I wouldn't have a problem with this. But they rarely do or farm it out to companies like Digital Eclipse, they mean well and try hard to be accurate to the games but they have a mixed record of porting games (Street Fighter 30th compilation comes to mind)
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Hey, thanks and I understand where you are coming from even if I dont explicitly agree so let's leave it at your post.
Everyone isn't entitled to own or experience something simply because it exists. I agree that a more reasonable public domain model should be in place for games, or that developers / creators should be more open to freeing things up after some time or in case of some emergency where they anticipate going under.
Yes and the original version is unique, all other versions have been altered. The only way to play the SNES version is to
- Get the original cart used for an unreasonable price
- Play it on the Wii VC (no longer available)
- Download a ROM
- Get a repro cart (I bought one for $20)
Well, that sucks.
For some stuff, preservation really does not need to be open to the general public. Just take for example theater plays recordings preserved in library archives that can only be accessed for research by students for a limited amount of time.
If you are running a repro business, you are likely dumping your own ROMs for the repros. They dont need Emu Paradise to function, frankly.
lol, no, no you cannot
Not a lot, no. Very few, to be honest. Like, we're talking about a site with entire Amiga collections, PS1, 32x, and so on and so forth. The site didn't have any 7th or 8th gen things on it. The newest games on site were for the Nintendo DS--those games are no longer being manufactured. The vast majority of PS1 and PS2 games are unavailable, for instance.
We're talking less than 10% of all games on the site being still commercially available.
I'm torn, mostly because I've never really understood the difference between this and buying a used copy of the game since the original creators don't see a penny either way. But I guess capitalism makes the difference.
I hope game archivists keep some of these games alive.
I hope game archivists keep some of these games alive.
Where is your "Like... I think about 80% of their stuff isn't available for purchase anywhere on modern platforms" stat from?
Most university libraries allow the public to access items like that if they are on library premises, not just students. If digitization is possible, libraries will do that and provide as much access to that as they can. Time limits or other limitations are usually in the interest of providing equitable access or safety of the item in question, not arbitrarily limiting access based on social status/organizational status.
I work at a private university library with pretty extensive archives and this is how we do things. Public universities are typically even more open, but even most private university libraries try to provide public access as best they can.
..because I want to play the SNES version on the SNES.
I already bought this game on the Wii Virtual Console, the DS, PS1 Disc, PSN, Apple Store and Google Play and now a Reproduction cartridge so I can play it on the real console. The only version I think that I haven't bought is the Steam version and I am sure I will get around to it one day. If people downloading ROMS of a game I have bought over and over again doesn't bother me, why does it bother you?
For plays in most libraries that i've seen (could be wrong, i'm definitively not an expert on the subject), it's more based on status since they are shown for mostly analysis reasons. People writing plays, studying how actors respond to certains scenarios, the evolution of the genre etc.
Simple math considering the platforms on the site. Like, iirc, they had 3DO roms. Amiga stuff. Ancient arcade cabinet gear. You think you can get commercially available 3DO games these days?
Like all real world laws copyright is a compromise solution, which inherently means nobody is entirely happy with it.
The end goal of preservation is preservation, not access, but even if it was access, its not access now.
Talking about the demise of emuparadise hosting ROM links - and again, look at what their top downloaded titles are if those are still up; it is not titles that are impossible to obtain legally, or obscure titles where nobody knows where the ownership lies - as though it is the sacking of the Grat Library of Alexandria is like talking about shutting down Silk Road as a blow to free enterprise.
So because you're picky you should get stuff for free?
You seriously think people that reproduce hundreds of cartridges take the time to buy each game individually and clone them? Rather than simply download a ROM? How is that common sense? There is no risk to downloading a ROM for this purpose and it costs no money. Common sense would dictate they take the easy route. Especially when you can see that many of the hacks and translations from ROMhacking.net are used in these reproductions.
I mean there's basically two options right? Download a ROM off the internet or take the time to clone their own. One is much more involved than the other and would require an actual investment. The other is a few clicks. How is it a large claim to say businesses that steal for money would do one and not the other? Especially since a ROM can be downloaded anywhere and a physical game would require many potential costs.
Lol. Yeah and they had to go all the way to China to make the operation work. We live in an age when an operation like this can be done by much fewer people. And the materials to undergo that operation are much easily attainable.
I'm not even AGAINST emulation as current laws are clearly stacked against the public and we really need to revisit how games fall into public domain compared to other mediums because currently they really don't unless the developer lets it happen. Also how the hell is it a hot take to say people would use ROMs obtained online for no money? Because of course they would.
So guessing, ok.
Was curious if they had actual stats they published themselves.
I googled "3DO Games" on this site called Amazon.com and got a bunch of results. They're used games, though. Also they didn't have Space Ace. I googled for "Space Ace 3DO" on this other site, eBay.com, and they had it another used copy for $40.
We're definitely going to disagree on that, the end goal of preservation is definitely access.
Ok, well I wouldnt call myself an expert necessarily but I'm an MLIS student who works at a large private university library with archives and I'm telling you that you are wrong. Preservation by libraries, museums, etc. is ultimately meant to serve the goal of public access to that information. Sometimes the safety of the item in question is at odds with certain forms of access, which is where limitations come in. Some items are also given to libraries or museums with specific stipulations that have to be adhered to, usually under a contract agreement, which can also affect differences in public access to certain materials. That doesnt change the fact that nearly every library and museum endeavors to be publically accessible. We exist to spread knowledge.
They profited off of someone elses work.
I don't care about the people who download roms for old games.
But if you are profiting off of someone elses work and not paying them a piece of what you get you should be shut down. I have zero sympathy for the site owners.
You specifically said "sites like emuparadise" which aren't the only way to get roms from the internet.
That's only if you see "preservation" simply as its definition as a word. But what many of us are talking about is preservation as an idea and means to save our history so that it may be experienced and understood by future generations as best as it can. For future generations to do that, it has to be accessible.
If we're just preserving things for the sake of preservation, what are we doing? What's the point?
Good to know, so i would guess that theater plays enter the specific stipulations parts? Looking at the Theatre on Film and Tape Archive, it seems to point that way : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_on_Film_and_Tape_Archive
It is open to users, but only those with an official reason to access it.
On an ancillary point, I could just basically lie and say I have all sorts of things without the need to prove it. I have a secret Wu-Tang album that even Martin Shrkeli doesn't know about!! You can't see it, no. It's safe with me and you can't see it or hear it
Sorry, I added to the post and you may have missed it so I will post it here:
So that it's not lost forever. I guess as an example let's say all of the copies of Lufia II disappeared from the world for various reasons, except one. Someone's holding onto it, it's in a glass case, pristine condition, CIB. They entrust it down their family line successfully until the day when the game's copyright expires and it enters public domain. At this point the owner could decide to let someone copy it and post it online or whatever replacement for the internet may be that far in the future, and then everyone will have it. Yes I realize how extreme of an example this is.
It just says you need a research interest, it doesnt specify that you have to have certain credentials and I would be surprised if you had to have special credentials to use their services. I mean a private citizen can have a research interest in their material, it just means you want to look at them basically. They probably dont want people to just hang out there, which is why they have that stipulation.
... that proves my point that the end goal of preservation is access. Keeping a work safe until the copyright expires so it can be accessed without the material being lost.. that's an end goal of access. Same as any library that gets the material and lets people access it BEFORE the copyright expire (though orphaned works are still copyright violations for the individual, libraries can get special priviledges in this regard).
And if they can't it's also available digitally on 3DS and WiiU. Point is, it's still being sold by Nintendo themselves, unlike other games which have been mentioned as not being sold by their devs/publishers anymore.
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SNES Classic is pretty easy to find. Systems have even gone unsold here on Era's BST.
Then you work for a pretty poor company. Every company I've ever worked for has covered the cost of items needed to do my job.
If it is needed for work, it gets expensed.
I think there's a perfectly good argument discussion emulation and preservation and what goes on with that, but across this thread we do see multiple examples of people openly advocating or admitting to piracy, which is against our FAQ.
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Another thought that I had while the thread was closed, is that eventually GOG.com will run into a wall licensing old PC games because they'll eventually run out of games that can be licensed without a huge amount of detective work... should GOG consider selling old console games? A lot of their DOS games use DOSBox already, so they are not averse to packaging emulators.
And NES games used to be licensed to PC when GameTap was an extent service. So it's not a matter of Nintendo saying NES/SNES games can't be sold on PC at all -- there are already SNES games on Steam (Legend & Jim Power being two of them).
I think GOG definitely should consider at the very least tapping into the back catalogues of older computers like the Amiga, Commodore 64, Spectrum, etc. But also consider the NES, SNES, SMS, etc. Get in touch with third party companies, as well as Hamster who licenses a lot of old games.
And NES games used to be licensed to PC when GameTap was an extent service. So it's not a matter of Nintendo saying NES/SNES games can't be sold on PC at all -- there are already SNES games on Steam (Legend & Jim Power being two of them).
I think GOG definitely should consider at the very least tapping into the back catalogues of older computers like the Amiga, Commodore 64, Spectrum, etc. But also consider the NES, SNES, SMS, etc. Get in touch with third party companies, as well as Hamster who licenses a lot of old games.
End of an era, site helped my dad find me a ton of games for consoles we could not afford growing up and discover series that are no longer sold. Did not use it much in the last few years but was always my go to for an old strategy guide for use or random nostalgia reading.
Well that's a shame. I'm firmly in the camp that believes old titles should be freely available to play, in the same sense that old works are no longer trademarked after an established time.
Or reminding random Konami/Capcom that they have amazing games (even the ones that they don't need to pay random TMNT fees) that they never even ported to consoles.
The never ported arcade games is what I always think when people talk about preservation through emulation .... I live in brazil so that is another universe but even in the USA it is hard to find good places with old arcade games
Damn. End of an era. Great game archive, shame it got taken down.
Don't know why Nintendo couldn't have worked with them to build an online storefront for all of those games. I guess EmuParadise messed up either way, who would want to work with a company committing mass copyright infringement?
Don't know why Nintendo couldn't have worked with them to build an online storefront for all of those games. I guess EmuParadise messed up either way, who would want to work with a company committing mass copyright infringement?
If this is about game preservation, only abandonware would be hosted, roms would be distributed upon request on a case by case basis, games would be taken down when it get re-release after times. They are running on ads dollar not donation or patreon
This is not it, people got a free ride, be glad it lasted as long as it did and be hopeful the games are not lost. Because as someone said it, there's no feasible way to get shits like Tool's Time on SNES.
This is not it, people got a free ride, be glad it lasted as long as it did and be hopeful the games are not lost. Because as someone said it, there's no feasible way to get shits like Tool's Time on SNES.
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It's sort of about both. It's like preservation piggybacking on piracy.
Cheaper and easier? Yes.
Would not having these sites stop cloning? No.
A clone seller will get the original copy anyway if the sites didn't exist and would gain much more than if the sites did exist because then people are forced to buy the cloned version if they wanted to play the game.
Right now atleast the cloned copies don't give the pirates profits as much as it would if there wasn't any time sites.
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