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VICE: We Asked Vegans Why So Many People Hate on Vegans
- Thread starter WrenchNinja
- Start date
This is the answer. People hate to feel like they're being judged, even if they aren't, and anyone who chooses not to consume food or drink that is socially common (meat, alcohol, etc) is immediately perceived as judging everyone around them, even if they never said anything. It's why I can say "Sorry, I don't drink" in the sweetest and most polite voice possible and people look at me like I just admitted to killing children as a hobby. How dare you judge me for drinking alcohol? Are you accusing me of being an alcoholic? But I never said anything. It's the same with vegetarians and vegans. Oh, you're so high and mighty, not killing animals like me. You must think I'm such a savage. Well fuck YOU, buddy!
My vegan friend is eating his vegan food and I'm eating a hamburger and we're sitting and laughing about this discussion.
People eat, whatever, you can't force someone to go on a specific diet because YOU want it, it's their choice, fuck it. Don't be obnoxious and let people be.
People eat, whatever, you can't force someone to go on a specific diet because YOU want it, it's their choice, fuck it. Don't be obnoxious and let people be.
This brings up the point that at least vegetarianism is something I could see some logic and sense in too. But veganism though, that's just seems like way too many fucking hoops and just an all around bad idea. Yogurt, milk and even eggs to a certain degree is a huge part of vegetarian cuisine in South Asia.
What I did is something called joking.
joke
[johk]
noun
- something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
Vegetarianism is a great step in the right direction but not logical. Either harming and killing animals for your own pleasure is moral or it isn't.
Well you try being 100% moral with everything you do Mr cheesecake and have fun while you are at it.
There's almost nothing on this planet that humanity has achieved would have been possible without the help of others i.e the environment or the organisms that inhabit it. Using their help is/was never the problem, the problem was doing it in a sustainable that doesn't harm it in a unfixable way. Eggs and dairy in most countries will probably fall under that. Please don't post those studies and videos about milking cows being abused on US farms, I already know of them.
I also hate the tendency to turn this into a moral argument and that is perhaps vegans keep losing. The proper way to approach the argument is from the angle of sustainability, health reasons and overall common sense, not moral guilt tripping and because 'You' think its the right thing to do.
Reasons not to take the morality route:
1) First of all, not everyone is going to agree with the same morals and code of conduct as you. That's why we have so many religions. Some people will never get on board that killing animals is immoral.
2) Secondly, what about those who just don't give a shit about morals anyway ? Good amount of the population is apathetic about social justice causes until it directly affects them. There will always be people who say they either don't care about moral consequences and or will continue to consume meat even as they recognize their own moral failing.
3) Third, did I mention the word stupid and condescending yet ?
Exactly, the cognitive dissonance is real when it comes to animal rights.
People see those poor dogs in China and can't stop talking about how disgusting the festival is but then they help themselves to their next hamburger.
"But those are food animals"
"Lions though"
"Uuuh I need my protein"
"What if you got stuck on an island!"
For every (right) argument vegans have for why people should go vegan (the reasons why "people hate vegans") they have some very bad counter arguments.
i am not a vegan or a vegetarian, and i still find that "obnoxious vegans" are relatively rare, and it's more likely that us meat eaters just get defensive as fuck when our horrible lifestyle choices are highlighted, and instead of dealing with our guilt we just invented some sort of crazy vegan bogeyman to attack.
and even the genuinely obnoxious vegans are usually right.
and even the genuinely obnoxious vegans are usually right.
Veganism is a moral position. Asking whether we should be doing something is by definition a moral question. I don't see any need to apologise for that. Of course that doesn't mean vegans can't encourage people to take steps towards the ultimate goal or to point out other benefits such as how avoiding animal products is better for the environment.
I accept that vegans have a correct moral stance.
Please accept that as a human supremicist I don't give a damn about the loss of animals so long as it benefits our lives in the form of food or medication. Trophy hunters can bugger off.
Even the sickest human is worth more than the strongest most endangered animal.
Please accept that as a human supremicist I don't give a damn about the loss of animals so long as it benefits our lives in the form of food or medication. Trophy hunters can bugger off.
Even the sickest human is worth more than the strongest most endangered animal.
Some vegans actually do though, some actively try to block or shame others into not eating meat and it's rather upsetting
Of the 100+ vegans i've met only 1 was what you could call militant, and she was also an antivaxer. Besides that crazy chick every vegan i've met has been super cool and they are as cool with my choice to eat animals as i am with their choice not to. Plus vegan chocolate chip cookies are delicious!
I know there's no singular vegan point of view... but is it mostly just about the animals suffering, or is the fact that the animals are killed the problem too?
For instance, if an animal lived a perfectly happy life (free to roam / eat awesome food), would it be more acceptable to eat meat then? I guess the best examples would be Iberico pigs.
For instance, if an animal lived a perfectly happy life (free to roam / eat awesome food), would it be more acceptable to eat meat then? I guess the best examples would be Iberico pigs.
Living a long life without eating meat is not a life worth living, imo."Living a long life is not natural our ancestors died at age 25 and you should too!!"
1. See above.
2. Meat eaters kill far more plants than vegans, because animals are fed plants for years before being slaughtered for their meat. The higher up on the food chain you eat, the more of anything below has to be killed. For example, let's say you only ate lions... you'd be responsible for killing not only lions, but also all the herbivorous animals they ate, and all the plants all of those animals ate.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/meat/
Monaco is the highest life expectancy
And it's primarily a vegetable diet , if they cut out meat completely I would imagine the life expectancy would go up even further.
They eat small amounts of fish , very little if any red meat with some eggs and milk again small amounts
Of course you can. Society changes over time, it's soon illegal to smoke cigarettes in many countries. Who knows if eating certain meats or animal based products faces the same situation in the future once our resources will inevitably end.
I've said this before, but my problem with vegans/vegetarians is how much they lie about how good vegan substitutes are. No, that sponge you are eating does not tast like chicken. That eggless "mayonnaise" is not as good or better than the real thing. None of the alternatives are as good or better.
It's worth noting that there are most definitely other reasons Monaco has the highest life expectancy... similar deal for San Marino.
I'd also note countries like Spain and Australia in the overall lists (joint 4th)... very much meat eating countries. Hell, I rode around Spain with a vegan recently and I've never seen someone struggle so much to find a decent amount of calories.
These are facts
Spain has a life expectancy of 80 compared to Monaco's 90
That's a big gap , if people love meat and don't want to give it up that's fine but it's not good for you
Isn't eggless mayonnaise just super full of sugar where real mayonnaise is literally just fat?
If anything, the trend of higher life expectancies has a trend of having more animal fats like pork or fish. But could it be that it doesn't matter? People in Monaco are not effectively vegetarian and they wouldn't live longer if they became vegan.
Things like fish, eggs and bacon are always consumed in relatively "high" amounts by supercentenarians.
Nothing haha
but I hate mayonnaise but at least real mayonnaise isn't going to make you fat
Where the hell are you getting this information. Show some facts. Because you look at say the Okinawan diet and they eat more meat than the rest of Japan. And I've been to Monaco, they eat meat. Their diet is based around fish in many of their meals.
edit: also, my point is that Monaco having such a large life expectancy is NOT due to diet (alone)
Err fat will make you fat if you eat wrong kinds of fats and too much of it. Mayonnaise is like the worst example you could've come up with here.
... Oh, you believe this fib. No, dietary fat will not make you fat the way carbs will. It's glucose that turns into fat stores in your body.
Look at the carb content of non-real mayonnaise it's practically fruit juice/cake like.
The only real wrong kinds of fats are stuff like trans-fats. Which we should all avoid anyway.
You are missing the key words very little meat that is proven. What is not proven is my argument that if they completely cut meat out they would increase their life expectancy but if they did a dietary experiment i believe it would. Most of the meat they eat is fish barely any read meat .
https://www.getold.com/want-to-live-a-long-healthy-life-take-a-lesson-from-monaco
I'm on my phone so I can't quote the specifics and they also have a higher life expectancy than Japan
Monaco is a playground for the rich and famous. Comparing the average population there to a country as diverse as Spain and assuming it's down to them eating more veg... probably not a smart bet.
Get Old.com
Increase your Life Expectancy.
...
you're article even says "lots of seafood" anyway.
I edited for fish but they mostly eat fruits and vegetables more so than fish
I could get a scholarly article for you if you would like
Again, where did I state that? And yes the sugary version is probably lot worse, but mayonnaise contains tons of energy so it's easy to exceed your daily calorie burn with foods like it.
Have you been to Monaco? And you do know that Monaco is never rated for its life expectancy because of just its diet? Its diet is extremely similar to other places in the region.
To move the goal posts and say "barely any red meat"... As I said before, Bacon is associated with supercentenarians. You're trying your best to convince yourself that a vegetarian diet will make people live the longest but there's no definitive answer for there nor examples of a bunch of vegans living super long. Life expectancy per region has far more to do with what's around that region (and being a woman).
You said fat makes you fat. Anything can make you fat but certainly (I'm not stupid enough to not think that it depends on calorie intake), non-real mayonnaise is worse. Also rip insulin response.
I've really softened my stance on vegans in the last year. In this modern era, they are some of the most consistent people and a few may find that obnoxious. While I'm vegetarian, I appreciate that I am still supporting animal oppression and harm.
However, morally, I'm a vegetarian simply for environmental reasons. I believe having dairy cows that live longer is preferable to constantly-cycled meat cows.
Fuck PETA, though.
However, morally, I'm a vegetarian simply for environmental reasons. I believe having dairy cows that live longer is preferable to constantly-cycled meat cows.
Fuck PETA, though.
No she doesn't.
99% of vegans I've met don't preach. Sure they might share their views via social media to raise awareness, or post something and say how it hurts them to see such siugfering and they don't understand how people can be complicit etc... but that' seems not being preachy, the bad tmajoritu of the time it's lamenting sadness for creatures they cannot help.
Problem is, one does preach and suddenly you're triggered and tarring them all.
Some of the quotes on veganism in the OP and responses in the thread is what makes a lot of vegans so so obnoxious to me:
1. "people don't like the truth, they are just being defensive"
2. "they have weak counter arguments to our good arguments"
3. "It is factually healthier, according to these cherrypicked (parts of) studies I've read, which you should interpret in this way"
4. "We are morally superior. You don't agree?" Go to step 1
The very few vegans I know in real life are cool though. So that would be 100% of vegans I know lol.
1. "people don't like the truth, they are just being defensive"
2. "they have weak counter arguments to our good arguments"
3. "It is factually healthier, according to these cherrypicked (parts of) studies I've read, which you should interpret in this way"
4. "We are morally superior. You don't agree?" Go to step 1
The very few vegans I know in real life are cool though. So that would be 100% of vegans I know lol.
In the post you quoted I already said that fat is bad if you eat it too much. Mayonnaise is very high concentrate energy so it's not good for anyone in general.