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Penn Jillette can vouch for racist Trump Apprentice tapes, but won't for "moral reasons"
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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Here's the thing: false accusations about the President need not be defended. The dignity and power of the office as well as the prestige shields you from unjust criticism, simply because people say a million things about you every day and some of them are just outlandish conspiracy nonsense. There is no reason to respond. If people say you said something and you know it's not true and can't be proven, you should ignore it with the mountain of other false things people say about you every day. By tweeting about her claims, it draws attention and makes it a national news story of import. And then when you have your surrogates go out and lie, then get disproved hours later, it discredits you and gives credibility to Omarosa's claims. I don't think they would commit such an unforced error, because I think it's a forced error. They have to say SOMETHING, and they have to temper the water so it doesn't shock voters when it comes out.
I'm not certain of it, but this follows a pattern. When something really bad is about to come out, the WH tries to talk about it to try to color the narrative. Omarosa has so far been seen to be more credible than Trump surrogates, so I think something is about to drop.
Agreed, there are a lot of kneejerk reactions here based on the thread title alone.
He clarifies what he means later in the Vulture interview, it was left out of the quotes they used in the AVclub article.
http://www.vulture.com/2018/08/penn-jillette-in-conversation.html
http://www.vulture.com/2018/08/penn-jillette-in-conversation.html
That's technically part of the definition of morality.
Him staying out of the shitshow and not adding stuff as fact (exact quotes) that might not be factual (unreliable narratator) years later...is following a specific morality of good/decent behavior over bad.
His morality compass is to avoid lowering public discourse. He feels unreliable gossip mongering would be doing that...what basically everyone else does. Spew out a bunch of stuff that has grains of truth and not care how the further embellishments and added slants lowers the bar.
The fact that there are tapes means he could start telling his story...tapes come out and show little bits that weren't exactly true to Penn Jellites word...and suddenly he's the dick.
I get it.
But yea, it's definitely a moral code to not fall into that trap. Message boards like this on the Internet completely disavow that particular morality code haha
I'd give it 24 hrs of outrage followed by the news coverage quickly pivoting to "Is the N-word really racist?" followed by "Why can't white people use that word?"
Penn doesn't want the smoke. I get that.
I'd do the same. If he provides quotes without evidence he'll have a target on his back. He's protecting himself more than anything.
I'd do the same. If he provides quotes without evidence he'll have a target on his back. He's protecting himself more than anything.
But he went and gave enough smoke to make everyone suspect there is a raging fire underneath.
He should have just said nothing.
You say "Go the read the interview", then selectively cut and bold pieces of it.
Penn has blindspots, and he is speaking from a place of privilege, but he is also speaking from experience. For instance when he's talking about Trump supporters having gay friends, he doesn't mean none of them are homophobes, just that some don't think they are. He's taking about how people emotionally respond to information and facts. He's a guy that hates labels because he has seen a lot of people labeled a certain way when they were not or did not want to be identified a certain way. Hence his example of Siegfried.
You also chose not to highlight his take on female Magicians, which might have made him sound better. Or how he isn't sure a libertarian government would work, or how he is for Universal Basic Income.
This interview won't get any attention as it doesn't have any direct quotes. It will be forgotten by tomorrow
I read the interview from the other thread before seeing it posted here, but while I can understand the frustration with him essentially saying that he was there but is unwilling to give even his recollection over what he has heard him say, I get where he is coming from. It goes from a controversial, hot button conversation about a celebrity you worked with on set to a exponentially explosive political issue with the President of the U.S.A. and if there was no tape, people would only have Penn's words to go on, words that people would constantly ask him about and even attack him about but he'd have little in the way of defending himself other than standing by what he said. It's why all the people who have been willing to confirm they've heard such things only are willing to confirm that he's said things, but haven't gone as far to detail what they've heard him say.
Now him feeling that it isn't moral to release tapes since Penn feels that it was within the context of him being an unfiltered entertainer on a reality TV show I think is bullshit since the guy wasn't putting up an act or playing a character (at least not one that he isn't in real life), these aren't just improv outtakes that didn't make the show, and any casual or targeted racial slurs, bigotry, sexism that may have occurred aren't removed from the racist, bigoted, and misogynistic things he's said in public with a filter, they only confirm it for people beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I think Penn would be one of the to confirm that it was indeed Trumps's voice and that he was in the room if any such tape would come out. Maybe he'd be scared of what he or other people in the room may be caught saying or reacting to, because just look at how Billy Bush was condemned and fired for being in the same bus as Trump and egging him on more than being the one who said what Trump said, while Trump had people jumping to his defense and ultimately it didn't sink his campaign. I don't know, but reading that interview, I don't think Penn is the bad guy here. I think he did the right thing in identifying that he heard things that he thought made him uncomfortable, that he knew were insensitive or wrong, and he also confirms that he was there on the set of the Apprentice to hear something. Given that so few people have been willing to speak out about it while there are probably more people not just in front of, but also behind the camera on the staff or just producers who have to have discussed the behavior or have footage, that haven't said anything clear about the subject, I think people know that it's a bombshell and are cautious or scared. Or maybe there aren't clear smoking guns and it's more insensitive crap like he's said all the time on Twitter, we might not really get the extent of it unless someone releases any tapes.
Now him feeling that it isn't moral to release tapes since Penn feels that it was within the context of him being an unfiltered entertainer on a reality TV show I think is bullshit since the guy wasn't putting up an act or playing a character (at least not one that he isn't in real life), these aren't just improv outtakes that didn't make the show, and any casual or targeted racial slurs, bigotry, sexism that may have occurred aren't removed from the racist, bigoted, and misogynistic things he's said in public with a filter, they only confirm it for people beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I think Penn would be one of the to confirm that it was indeed Trumps's voice and that he was in the room if any such tape would come out. Maybe he'd be scared of what he or other people in the room may be caught saying or reacting to, because just look at how Billy Bush was condemned and fired for being in the same bus as Trump and egging him on more than being the one who said what Trump said, while Trump had people jumping to his defense and ultimately it didn't sink his campaign. I don't know, but reading that interview, I don't think Penn is the bad guy here. I think he did the right thing in identifying that he heard things that he thought made him uncomfortable, that he knew were insensitive or wrong, and he also confirms that he was there on the set of the Apprentice to hear something. Given that so few people have been willing to speak out about it while there are probably more people not just in front of, but also behind the camera on the staff or just producers who have to have discussed the behavior or have footage, that haven't said anything clear about the subject, I think people know that it's a bombshell and are cautious or scared. Or maybe there aren't clear smoking guns and it's more insensitive crap like he's said all the time on Twitter, we might not really get the extent of it unless someone releases any tapes.
Again, just so it doesn't get lost as this point continues to be at the forefront of the conversation: in a 2016 interview during the campaign, Jillette wouldn't quote what he heard Trump say because the stakes were too high- Trump was a presidential candidate. He excuses himself for the exact same reasoning today. The stakes are too high- Trump is the president.
His argument is the same as like, "look, if we were just shooting the shit about Joe Schmo I'd tell you all sorts of stories because it's just some random guy, it's not going to lead anywhere. If I tell you stuff about the president, it's going to be national news, it could put me in legal jeopardy, it would be dissected word by word, and if I didn't get it exactly right I'd be pilloried. So, nah. He definitely said a lot of awful shit and he's an awful guy but I'm not gonna give you a direct quote."
This interview is incredibly irresponsible. Either flat confirm it or don't say anything.
It's more of a surprise when a libertarian doesn't reflexively defend a racist. But no, they're not racist, no way guys...
Now here's why the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional... and why Nazis need platforms for their hate speech...
Because free markets solve all problems... capitalism is magic!
It's more of a surprise when a libertarian doesn't reflexively defend a racist. But no, they're not racist, no way guys...
Now here's why the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional... and why Nazis need platforms for their hate speech...
Because free markets solve all problems... capitalism is magic!
Holy shit, I don't understand how so many people in this thread are mis-reading this. Are they just going off the title and nothing more?
IF Penn knew, word for word, what was said, and was confident in his recollection, he'd give quotes. But since he doesn't, and since every incorrect quote HELPS Trump, he's not going to risk being wrong.
There is nothing more to it than that...he's not worried about blow back, he doesn't feel any threat to his career, he just doesn't want to be the source of a mis-quote.
IF Penn knew, word for word, what was said, and was confident in his recollection, he'd give quotes. But since he doesn't, and since every incorrect quote HELPS Trump, he's not going to risk being wrong.
There is nothing more to it than that...he's not worried about blow back, he doesn't feel any threat to his career, he just doesn't want to be the source of a mis-quote.
Basically said enough to confirm that Trump was saying that shit but just enough to not put himself in legal trouble. Considering how long ago that was I don't expect him to be able to quote him exactly.
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