OP
OP
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Berserk...Where have you been all my life!
- Thread starter JK-Money
- Start date
Also fuck Corkus. If you remove him trying to mug Guts and none of this ever happens.
OP
OP
Believe it or not I'm quite sure Griffith loves Guts, he's pretty much a Yandere and has no idea how to actually deal with his emotions. And when he does deal with his emotions bad shit happens.I read a few chapters after:
Griffith just told Guts that he wants him! Why do i have a feeling this is going to be some Golden Lovers shit that happens where they want to be together but something separates them, obviously because Griffith becomes Femto. Also Guts just did the back raid with them and it was a success, god my emotions
To not spoil anything just a simple is it during or after the Golden Age arc which is where im at?
EDIT: if ya'll dont mind id love to share my experience with you, and hope you dont mind if I randomly update this thread with my reactions etc. I love connecting with fans of the material
Although I'm "only" up to volume 34, it's pretty clear to me from a few scenes that he does indeed love him (as a friend anyway).
Spoiler for later volumes
When Griffith is reborn and ponders whether his heartbeats are the remnants of his humanity and feelings towards Guts or if it's just because the vessel of his rebirth was the little half-demon child. Or something to that effect, I forget the exact lines. Also the fact that, so far, he hasn't tried to kill Guts in any way. Although that might be part of a bigger plan/causality, I don't know.
I always separate Griffith and Femto when it comes to actual emotions, Griffith is more confused by them, yet feels them intensely. Femto on the other hand doesn't have them. Though I will admit
Reborn Griffith is kind of in between I guess, he does seem to have a lot of fun being the hero and slaying demons and eating cake made by Charlotte.
Yes, I also agree with this.
Eclipse happenings spoilers, nothing too crazy
Griffith saw Guts as the one person who would threaten his dream, but not as an actual threat, but as a "he could pull the blindfold off of me" sort of thing. And that in turn would make everyones' deaths meaningless if he abandoned it. It's pretty cut and dry (at this point) in the series. Do you pack it up and be happy, and waste what people did? Tough call for a lot of folks
Oh, I'm not talking about anything up to and including the Eclipse. That stuff is pretty clear-cut, and I agree with you.
Post-Eclipse spoilers
You would think Griffith's reincarnation wouldn't care about Guts or only pretend to like him for some bigger goal, but his first meeting with Guts post-reincarnation, as I previously mentioned, indicates that, even then, he still cares about him to some degree. He's essentially Fake Griffith, Fake Jesus and the Devil Incarnate, yet he cares about him lol.
Yeah. I'm interested in where he goes with it.
Especially after (hill of swords spoilers)
The whole Hill of Swords thing. That's when I knew in my heart of hearts that Griffith won't kill Guts when he can. And I don't know if Guts will kill Griffith when he truly has the chance anymore. I think they just...both are frustrated forever, lol
OP
OP
I just read a few past the eclipse man I feel so bad for guts. Casca memory is gone, he lost all of his friends and comrades, Griffirh betrayed him and he is running through a forest opening his wounds and his eye is bleeding....sigh
You're basically out of what is basically the set up for the rest of the series. You're about to go into one of the best arcs in the series but I'll say no more except you ain't seen shit yet.
OP
OP
Thanks, god i love this manga. Its the gift that keeps on giving.
OP
OP
hold the fuck up need some clarification. So Casca just laid a demon baby/fetus ok wow. But was it actually Guts/Cascaa baby from the start and Griffith made it a demon with his sperm, or was it always Griffiths? If it was Guts and Casca's baby and Griffith made it a demon......
hold the fuck up need some clarification. So Casca just laid a demon baby/fetus ok wow. But was it actually Guts/Cascaa baby from the start and Griffith made it a demon with his sperm, or was it always Griffiths? If it was Guts and Casca's baby and Griffith made it a demon......
It got corrupted by Griffith
The former. As always with Berserk, just assume the worst.hold the fuck up need some clarification. So Casca just laid a demon baby/fetus ok wow. But was it actually Guts/Cascaa baby from the start and Griffith made it a demon with his sperm, or was it always Griffiths? If it was Guts and Casca's baby and Griffith made it a demon......
Griffith didn't want Guts having shit.hold the fuck up need some clarification. So Casca just laid a demon baby/fetus ok wow. But was it actually Guts/Cascaa baby from the start and Griffith made it a demon with his sperm, or was it always Griffiths? If it was Guts and Casca's baby and Griffith made it a demon......
Griffith just wanted Guts to always have the child by his side!
(It's super horrible)
Really depends on who you ask. I say yes, but either way he was hyper possessive of Guts.
Everyone hates Corkus, but Guts lol. I think there is some meaning behind Guts never fighting or talking back to Corkus. Maybe because he feels like Corkus was right?
Very much this.
I don't hate him. In fact, he may be my favourite Taka no Dan member. Sure, he's a complete asshole, but many times he's the absolute grounded voice of reasons while the rest of them swoons into delusions of grandeur.
Last edited:
I mean, if people are asking "is Griffith gay for Guts", I don't know, that's up to interpretation I guess :p.
But he (spoilers up to the Eclipse)
[EDIT] About Corkus: I actually think he admires and envies Guts so much he hates him. He wishes he could be like him. And Guts is just too good to hate him lol. Plus he probably respects the fact that Corkus is willing to stand up to him and question him. Nobody does that except Casca.
But he (spoilers up to the Eclipse)
certainly loves him in one way or another, and couldn't keep him off his mind, even when he was barely conscious inside the dungeon. And his missing Guts is pretty much the sole reason why he goes to Charlotte's room to sleep with her. I mean look at the state of him after the deed.
Guts is the one person who's able to make him realize that his dream and ambitions are pretty much futile in the face of having people you truly care for. His downfall is ultimately down to excessive pride ("I deserve my own kingdom", basically) and a belief in sunk cost fallacy that was only reinforced by his guilt ("I've come this far, I can't let all I've worked for go to waste, especially with all the people who sacrificed their lives for it/me").
Doesn't help that he's a quasi-sociopath. His speech to Charlotte on friends vs. comrades, to me, always sounded like he's saying "in the end, pretty much everyone is insignificant to me; they're not my equals in any way". He's definitely got a sense of justice and doesn't care for unsavory people (see the whole episode where he "recruits" Casca as a child), but with barely emotions to back it up. Sleeping with Genon (sp?) was probably the final nail in the coffin in that regard. It broke him... Until Guts.
Guts threw a wrench into all of this at a time when Griffith thought he had it all figured out and was this close to his goal.
Guts is the one person who's able to make him realize that his dream and ambitions are pretty much futile in the face of having people you truly care for. His downfall is ultimately down to excessive pride ("I deserve my own kingdom", basically) and a belief in sunk cost fallacy that was only reinforced by his guilt ("I've come this far, I can't let all I've worked for go to waste, especially with all the people who sacrificed their lives for it/me").
Doesn't help that he's a quasi-sociopath. His speech to Charlotte on friends vs. comrades, to me, always sounded like he's saying "in the end, pretty much everyone is insignificant to me; they're not my equals in any way". He's definitely got a sense of justice and doesn't care for unsavory people (see the whole episode where he "recruits" Casca as a child), but with barely emotions to back it up. Sleeping with Genon (sp?) was probably the final nail in the coffin in that regard. It broke him... Until Guts.
Guts threw a wrench into all of this at a time when Griffith thought he had it all figured out and was this close to his goal.
[EDIT] About Corkus: I actually think he admires and envies Guts so much he hates him. He wishes he could be like him. And Guts is just too good to hate him lol. Plus he probably respects the fact that Corkus is willing to stand up to him and question him. Nobody does that except Casca.
I say yes as well.
Which also leads me to ask; do you guys think Griffith saw Guts as true friend as well, despite what he told Charlotte? Which is why Guts leaving was so devastating; he was in love with his best friend.
Last edited:
I don't think Griffith knows the concept of true, actual friendship. He teated Guts as a tool 99% of the time. One he, obviously, was very emotionally attached to, but I wouldn't call it a friendship in a mutual sense.
I think at first Griffith saw Guts pretty much the same as his other lieutenants, a mean to an end - with maybe a touch of added admiration due to Guts' sheer will, savagery, cunning and prowess in combat. Had Guts never decided to go his own way and break from the White Hawk's spell, Griffith would have carried on as usual.
Their fight for Guts' freedom changed that dynamic and permanently cemented their relationship. Griffith probably hates Guts as much as he loves him precisely because he's the one that got away.
I could see Griffith being a sociopath, but that whole river scene with Casca did show that Griffith has emotions, and he reacts very violently to them. Pretty much I think a lot the dumb shit that Griffith eventually does is when the real him pokes out from that shell he displays. He's very self destructive when he gets emotional.
His VA knew what was up lol.
Yes. I honestly think the Griffith speech was nothing more than BS that he said to impress Charlotte. You don't fuck up your own life for a person you don't care about. Griffith repeatedly put himself in harms way to make sure Guts survived. Besides you don't have a naked water fight with some random dude you don't care about. Griffith is a cunning manipulative bastard, but he is a person capable of forming bonds, they're just bonds he doesn't 100% understand on an emotional level.
I think sociopath describes Griffith perfectly. He knows that there are bonds, and he has enough charisma to form them, keep them, and get people to fall for him, but at the end of the day, they're tools, tools he's more or less attached to, but he doesn't understand or parse relationships in a way regular people would.
More spoilers up to the Eclipse (don't know if we should spoiler those, actually).
I absolutely agree, that's why I said quasi-sociopath. Maybe I just chose my words poorly. I was just saying that the Genon episode (and, before that, the death of the kid with the knight puppet), as shown in the river scene, was when he broke. He's not as strong as he thinks he is.
I largely agree. I wouldn't say his speech to Charlotte was complete BS, but he definitely wanted to impress her with it, and he didn't realize how much he actually believed what he said. I think he was just completely taken aback and forlorn at the fact that, yes, he does actually believe what he says about friendship, and "holy shit wait, so it actually hurts when a true friend leaves you?" He had this rigid, idealized vision of friendship that nobody up until then had managed to live up to, so when Guts turned out to be such a friend against all odds, he just didn't know how to handle it emotionally (as you said). Everything went according to keikaku, except Guts.
But other than Guts, he's never really cared about anyone other than as tools, right. Even Casca. She is his most valuable tool (until Guts), and certainly the most important member of the Hawks, but if she didn't show such martial prowess she'd just be another Corkus to him lol.
Alice : again, quasi-sociopath. Guts is the one exception. He genuinely cares for him as more than a tool.
I absolutely agree, that's why I said quasi-sociopath. Maybe I just chose my words poorly. I was just saying that the Genon episode (and, before that, the death of the kid with the knight puppet), as shown in the river scene, was when he broke. He's not as strong as he thinks he is.
I largely agree. I wouldn't say his speech to Charlotte was complete BS, but he definitely wanted to impress her with it, and he didn't realize how much he actually believed what he said. I think he was just completely taken aback and forlorn at the fact that, yes, he does actually believe what he says about friendship, and "holy shit wait, so it actually hurts when a true friend leaves you?" He had this rigid, idealized vision of friendship that nobody up until then had managed to live up to, so when Guts turned out to be such a friend against all odds, he just didn't know how to handle it emotionally (as you said). Everything went according to keikaku, except Guts.
But other than Guts, he's never really cared about anyone other than as tools, right. Even Casca. She is his most valuable tool (until Guts), and certainly the most important member of the Hawks, but if she didn't show such martial prowess she'd just be another Corkus to him lol.
Alice : again, quasi-sociopath. Guts is the one exception. He genuinely cares for him as more than a tool.
There's no evidence that he actually does. He's overly attached to him, but that's also because he's, by far, the mightiest and most loyal tool in his shed.
His meltdown wasn't "Guts broke my heart!", his meltdown came from the huge cracks Guts and their duel created in his ego. It came from the anxiety of being directly confronted with his goal falling apart because he's losing the one guy that was mostly responsible for his rise to power.
Yes, he's attached. Genuine love, friendship and a relationship? No way. This is also obvious with of how little importance Guts is to him, whenever they're back in Windham and Griffith is trying to woo the court.
They're all tools. Guts is just his favourite of them all.
He does have some sort of feelings towards Casca though. He actually did fantasize just chilling out and being cared for by her until he said fuck it and sacrificed his crew. He really just didn't care about her until he had no options. She's a tool to her yes in a lot of ways, but Casca was his tool. If Guts is 99% of his emotional focus then Casca probably gets 85% Casca is a person that Griffith created in my opinion. Also I think the main theme of Griffith is false idolization. A lot of people looked up to Griffith, but they didn't look up to who Griffith was, they looked up to what Griffith represented. In a way you could say that Griffith is the Meruem of Berserk. They love what he represents, IE a path to a dream...not their dream per say, but a dream that's better than what they currently have. They don't know shit about Griffith the person though, only two people like that are Guts and Casca.
OP
OP
Ive never cheered for a main character this much, make it a slow death Guts. Savor it.
I didn't view this in a positive light, it was more of a nightmare
Pffft...I hope you have a long life span lol.
Ive never cheered for a main character this much, make it a slow death Guts. Savor it.
I saw it more as a possible route he could've taken. I don't really view it as a nightmare, just something he didn't know if he desired or not. I don't really think Griffith knew what he wanted until one of the God Hand pushed him over the edge during the dream talk.
I got the sense he recoiled, HARD, at that. He was presented with his possible future and in no way did he want it. Splitting hairs though, I think we all agree he didn't want it.
Nah. At worst, he's oblivious to it, but he has genuine feelings (some will say actual love, I'd say friendship mostly). He keeps putting his life on the line for him, and when Guts confronts him about it, he can't even come up with a flimsy explanation: "Do I have to have a reason?" Putting your life in danger for someone for no reason is about the most obvious proof that you strongly care for them. That or your sense of self-sacrifice is inherently strong, but that's not Griffith; he's not an altruist in any fashion lol. I can't imagine him doing that for Casca, or if he did, it would have to be before he had to endure traumatic events like the night with Genon that screwed with his emotions.
JadedWriter : interesting. Definitely see where you're coming from. Reading your post and Alice's, I was reminded of the scene after the rescue, where he catches a glimpse of Guts and Casca together and decides to escape with the horses. I think he's mad at Guts like a kid is mad at his brother for stealing his favorite toy. Alice said that Guts was simply his favorite tool, but I think Casca fits the description better. Because she was the ideal toy, one that he made himself (as you pointed out) and had everything he needed: martial ability, leadership qualities, and an unwavering loyalty and admiration. In that sense, he was attached to her, but I think it's more because people like her were hard to come by for him. But Guts... No way he was just a tool/toy to him. I mean he was, because he was so strong and charismatic, but that's on top of everything else.
I have to admit that, to me, Griffith always came off as a little brat who'd rather go "neener-neener" than admit to his feelings and become more humble. His reaction to seeing Guts and Casca together, as well as (Eclipse spoiler)
his whole behavior during the Eclipse (from sacrificing everyone while smiling at Guts, to very ostensibly raping Casca in front of Guts) are pretty telling. I also think it's telling that Ubik manipulates him as a child. Because that's what Griffith is.
Sociopaths are always oblivious to real feelings, they can, and will delude themselves into thinking they're real, but that doesn't make them genuine. Griffith doesn't have genuine feelings for anyone but himself.
I do think we're speaking about the same thing here, I just refuse to give Griffith the humanity to have real, actual feelings for anyone.
It's just a different perspective because I once dated an actual sociopath and the patterns are very similar.
I do think we're speaking about the same thing here, I just refuse to give Griffith the humanity to have real, actual feelings for anyone.
It's just a different perspective because I once dated an actual sociopath and the patterns are very similar.
I think it's a fate that he settled on in his broken state, it's not what he wanted in his heart of hearts, more like something he could live with
Griffith is indeed petty as fuck. He didn't even bother brokering a deal with the Queen for example and we know he could have, he just burned her alive. Griffith likes the theatrics, the show, but the people aspect confuses him in my opinion.
Holy shit, I'm glad you're out of that. I guess my reading of Griffith is different because I don't refuse to give him humanity. He's highly imperfect, but that's a human in a nutshell.
That's where I disagree. Not about sociopaths, but about Griffith. He's not incapable of feelings, but he barely has any, and when he does (i.e. with Guts), he can't handle them. But shit like puppet-knight kid and the night with Genon chipped away at his mind and sanity. Not to mention the utter powerlessness and despair the torture put him in. It'd be easy to lose it if you realized you will never be able to walk, talk or hold anything ever again.
Would he delude himself into thinking he has feelings for Guts to the point of foregoing his dream and his life for him though? I doubt it.
[EDIT] I had an inkling you had first-hand experience with a sociopath from the way you talk about this, Alice. I'll echo Jaded's sentiments: glad you're out of that.
I don't think Griffith is a straight socio/psychopath is that for the sacrifice to work it has to be the most important thing in the world to you or the thing you love most. If Griffith just saw Guts and the Band of the Hawk as useful tools and nothing more then the Eclipse itself would never have actually occur. To accept the God Hand's gift you have to throw away everything that made you human and it has to mean something.
I wanna discuss further, but I keep catching myself wanting to talk past the eclipse and using spoiler tags is super inconvenient while outside. XD
What I do wonder is, with the current status quo, d'you think we'll ever get an answer? I also wonder if we'll ever see a return of the lost chapter (85, was it?) and the concepts it introduced.
Edit: thanks for the kind words, guys, it's been a long time since then, and I still consider it a valuable lesson.
What I do wonder is, with the current status quo, d'you think we'll ever get an answer? I also wonder if we'll ever see a return of the lost chapter (85, was it?) and the concepts it introduced.
Edit: thanks for the kind words, guys, it's been a long time since then, and I still consider it a valuable lesson.
Eclipse event might be one of my most memorable/impactful things I have ever read, someone made an apt comparison with the red wedding, but I think what it is more incredible about things moving forward:
is how the whole world does a dramatic change, Berserk goes from been basically historic medieval work to a Full medieval fantasy, the transition is seamless and because of small hints trough the manga up to this point this change doesnt feel forced and is practically a natural progresion of the story
Yeah, I view Griffith as confused by his emotions and not emotionless. If he was emotionless he'd operate with some sort of consistent logic, which he doesn't. I'm repressed so I can easily see how actual emotions can severely fuck with how you normally act since it happens to me.
Well the interesting thing is that it goes from historic midieval fantasy to full medieval fantasy to straight up high fantasy. Its basically the reverse of the cycle in Lord of the Rings where the fantastical elements of the world start to leave or fade away as humanity's influence grows. In Berserk it looks to be the fantastical creatures, through the macinations of the God Hand, are in fact retaking and remaking the world in their image instead.