Have you actually presented any counter arguments whatsoever? Nope you didn't, your sole defense is trying to paint my read on you as a tunnel and hoping it somehow stick.
Did you forget the context of that day and that post? I had previously asked that we not turbo the lynch too soon because I didn't want to cut conversation time short, and because I was kind of busy early on in that game day. However, by that point it was becoming clear that we were going to lynch Melon for lying, and the game was becoming downright miserable due to unnecessarily hostile arguments. I don't think I was alone in just wanting the day over by that point.
I'm not sure what your point is on this? On day 1 I had a fluid opinion of Faddy and it's been straight town since day 2? How on earth is that scummy? Of course opinions are going to change more rapidly at the start of the game?
Finally, Zeusy was acting anti-town, so I thought he was our best option to lynch yesterday. So I think you're just tunneling on me.
First Splinter and now Blarg have gotten a fair number of defenders to come to their aid, Blarg especially. At this point we might get some decent info if either were lynched. Depending on how the votes shake out over the next few hours I'd prefer an Exodus, B-Dubs, Faddy lynch over kitsunelaine. From what I understand, the case against her is basically that she got active and a bit forward after being called out for low activity. I don't see how that makes someone scummy on day 1.
Faddy has been steadily been looking more scummy has time has gone on for me after a strong start. I greatly dislike his efforts to be anointed town leader.
Exodus for pushing the flavor theory. He could be flavor good guy but in-game scum, and so he was trying to make it safe to claim his role.
B-Dubs for the strange assertion that no one was defending Blarg even though a number of people were by saying his behavior should be ignored.
Faddy for power hungry town leader ambitions.
And I don't think my deflect has priority over role blocks, at least according to the game runner guide on Outer, so it is unlikely Giant Panda was the blocked mafia.
Do you think you could explain what you're saying here a little more? Just having trouble understanding it. You deflected to Giant Panda on Night 2, but then what is this about a role block and him being unlikely to have been a blocked mafia? I feel like I'm missing something here.
Thread seems to have died down a little, the maintenance didn't help of course.
Back to hunting scum, what does everyone else think about Include's scumread of Giant Panda? I had GP in my scum list earlier today and I think he hasn't made the best defense. If we don't want to play the odds and lynch GoG I think we should definitely take a good look at GP.
So who are you looking at today? And let's think about what we got out of those days. Do you think anyone antagonised the melon/splinter thing? And who do you think might have been egging people on during the thunderdome?
Thread seems to have died down a little, the maintenance didn't help of course.
Back to hunting scum, what does everyone else think about Include's scumread of Giant Panda? I had GP in my scum list earlier today and I think he hasn't made the best defense. If we don't want to play the odds and lynch GoG I think we should definitely take a good look at GP.
I like Include's read, and it all seems to check out. She is pretty aggressive about following it right now, but also as a replacement player, she's able to look on the whole game from a different point of view than the rest of us, and I appreciate that.
Do you think you could explain what you're saying here a little more? Just having trouble understanding it. You deflected to Giant Panda on Night 2, but then what is this about a role block and him being unlikely to have been a blocked mafia? I feel like I'm missing something here.
Ok so in the world where GirlofGotham wasn't the blocked mafia player what are the alternatives?
One is that mafia used a role blocking power on me that deflected onto Giant Panda and he was the blocked mafia. But from the game runner guide on outer you will see that blocks have priority over re-directs. So if I was targeted for a role block then my power would be blocked and not Giant Panda.
As promised: Giant Panda reread. Going a day at a time, bear with me -
Day 1 - spent a lot of time lollygagging with flavour chat at the beginning but then seemed to start getting more involved yet didn't really rock the boat:
First of all, Giant Panda is the first person to vote blarg but gives no reason other than "he's got something to hide" (which I'm assuming is a spoiler tag did but he was the one to start the blarg train.
This is GP's most in-depth post of D1. And he scum reads 3 people we now either know to be town or have fair reason to consider them to be town over kits.
First Splinter and now Blarg have gotten a fair number of defenders to come to their aid, Blarg especially. At this point we might get some decent info if either were lynched. Depending on how the votes shake out over the next few hours I'd prefer an Exodus, B-Dubs, Faddy lynch over kitsunelaine. From what I understand, the case against her is basically that she got active and a bit forward after being called out for low activity. I don't see how that makes someone scummy on day 1.
Faddy has been steadily been looking more scummy has time has gone on for me after a strong start. I greatly dislike his efforts to be anointed town leader.
Exodus for pushing the flavor theory. He could be flavor good guy but in-game scum, and so he was trying to make it safe to claim his role.
B-Dubs for the strange assertion that no one was defending Blarg even though a number of people were by saying his behavior should be ignored.
Faddy for power hungry town leader ambitions.
Votes exodus even after claiming that a blarg vote could give results. Also votes exodus for flavour reasons when he himself only discussed flavour until he dropped his blarg vote. (Flavour talk was focused around religion)
Ok so in the world where GirlofGotham wasn't the blocked mafia player what are the alternatives?
One is that mafia used a role blocking power on me that deflected onto Giant Panda and he was the blocked mafia. But from the game runner guide on outer you will see that blocks have priority over re-directs. So if I was targeted for a role block then my power would be blocked and not Giant Panda.
Thanks, that makes perfect sense to me now, and I agree.
I suppose for me right now it's coming down to either lynching Girlofgotham based on the deathless night and the evidence surrounding it, lynching Giant Panda based on the scum-read from Include which I concur with, or doing some more digging on Apollo and seeing if I can come up with a really good scum read on him.
I'm sorry I haven't been more active this day phase. The plan was to be around for all of today, but I have a family emergency going on right now. I'll try and be around more tomorrow.
The people I want to really look into are GoG, Apollo, as well as wanting to dig into people who are being town read for no real reason. The first 2 are suspicious for reasons laid out by others (I haven't read much of today, so sorry if those were addressed), and I think that there's a lot of leeway being given where it doesn't need to be, like the amount of people town-reading me when I really haven't contributed much in any way. I'll try and dig into those and elaborate more when less is going on in real life though.
Initially, I couldn't really remember Giant Panda's input on this but there was a really strange interaction with Monkey that I don't really understand at all and he didn't explain and then point blank refused to explain
Looking back at day 1, I think Fantomas and B-Dubs might have been busing Splinter, but Zookfoodle, Kopite, and Faddy were all defending him.
I had a bit of scum read on Faddy yesterday, but it's a lot easier to trust Faddy now, so I think it's safe to focus attention on the other 4 if Splinter flips scum.
Selects a pool of 5 people who could be implicated if splinter winds up scum (which of course he didn't). Again, 3 of which we either have good evidence of being town or have been widely town-read. Basically, seems to be trying to paint townie folk into a bad light.
Gets strangely defensive when splinter mistakenly suggests he was defending him at one point. To be honest, this seemed a little townie to me, considering that at this point we all thought there was a red check on splinter so that seems a bit like a yell of "get your scum cooties away from me"
Also it really would have been better for Melon to sit on the scum read of Splinter for 24 hours. Would have been interesting to see how people voted before the cop results were known.
Panda stops discussing much of substance and gets into a weird argument with monkey about how he thinks melon shouldn't have come out with her red check but should have sat on it and revealed later:
By revealing the cop scan at the day's beginning, discussion is stunted for the whole day. If she waited a bit, she could have seen how people would react to a splinter lynch push.
Either you would believe melon because it's likely she got the gift and its plausible that the gift would be a cop scan, or you think she's a liar and lynch the liar. Either way it'd still end up as a Melon Splinter showdown.
So on D2, we basically saw Panda scum reading possible townies, getting in a circular argument with monkey and trying to get the turbo to happen faster.
First Splinter and now Blarg have gotten a fair number of defenders to come to their aid, Blarg especially. At this point we might get some decent info if either were lynched. Depending on how the votes shake out over the next few hours I'd prefer an Exodus, B-Dubs, Faddy lynch over kitsunelaine. From what I understand, the case against her is basically that she got active and a bit forward after being called out for low activity. I don't see how that makes someone scummy on day 1.
Faddy has been steadily been looking more scummy has time has gone on for me after a strong start. I greatly dislike his efforts to be anointed town leader.
Jeez D3 was awful. With regards to GP, I feel that D3 was NAI. There was a point where he suggested a turbo, changed his mind then got frustrated with how the conversation was going but everyone seemed to be feeling the same there.
I'm biased but Giant Panda gave a reason for scum possibly targeting me. If he flips scum, then this was definitely how they picked me (shut it, I'm enjoying grasping at this straw here)
Also the noteable thing here is that he seems to criticise Kits but then decides it's a town mistake because scum don't make mistakes apparently.
I'm not sure why scum would target GoG. She was flying under the radar which would probably lead her to suspicions later. I guess scum wouldn't have to worry about her being protected though.
Also, a few pages back when Kits made like 3 factually incorrect posts in a row: Scum playing dumb or sincerely confused townie? Scum should have a better grasp of what's going on than that, so they'd have to be faking ignorance pretty hard to appear so misinformed. I'm kind of leaning towards sincerely confused townie.
You are wrong, he did have a back & forth about Faddy keep in mind that I am reviewing all his content through this game, like I said he discussed religion, then the back and forth about faddy, then its more subtle version and to a lesser extent about zeussy, then when called out by Gorlak (who is conveniently dead now) he comes in today trying to "erase" Gorlak's accusations by providing a read list first thing in the day phase, I am sorry but I don't believe in coincidence.
Anyway here are all the quotes about the back & forth:
He agree with Faddy and yet has doubt about him.
Trying to pocket Faddy? and oh of course he has town vibes about him too.
Doubt about Faddy
Faddy is scummy now and he dislike his "efforts".
Accusing faddy of being a scum again.
Not liking Faddy again.
He doesn't trust anyone, remember that he was town reading faddy previously up up there?
Oh no more doubts about Faddy now, we trust him!!! Like I said... Back & forth...
Lowkey shading Faddy.
Faddy is totally town now.
Scared of Faddy? Scared of dying? Why?
There is a *chance* of Faddy being a neutral now? How can he entertain the idea if he is convinced that Faddy is town?
//// Unrelated but look at this gem///
He sure wanted to turbo our jailor huh?
////
Now with Zeussy it's more subtle, scum!Panda knows that none of them created the thunderdome and thus has been going about the alignment of the mysterious player who enabled. When it was revealed that it was Zeussy, he went voted him and "scum" read him but on most of his post he leave the little safety net of a sort (not sure what's the correct word for it).
He trust Zeussy the least… but since scum!panda knows for fact that Zeussy is town, he keep his safety net on by sharing his "concerns".
Let's make sure that zeussy is gone with a vote to seal it.
He may be a scum but then he may not be but then he may be. *back & forth safety net for when Zeussy flips*
Actually let's go 100% and declare Zeussy scum now.
He wants to believe that no town did a mistake before (let's forget Melon's mistake in this game, right?) but he can't. *something something safety net*
Fanto, you are right though that most often than not he does show up without being summoned, I guess I was reading too fast and noticing him the most (kind of confirmation bias I guess).
While I feel that zeusy made a stupid move and I had been scum-reading him myself, I do want to highlight the point that both fantomas and Include raised - Giant Panda is never in the spotlight. Instead, he just lingers around the edges, pops in with a brief comment (seldom anything of substance that has actually helped move conversation along) and tends to slink away again. He doesn't seem to have the "not keeping up" argument because as you look through the major events, he does always seem to pop up eventually and seems to know what's going on, he just seems to choose not to get directly involved very often.
Also, I want to quickly jump back to the posts I was looking at yesterday:
Right now I'm thinking Kits-Giant Panda and maybe Meatwad. Kits and G. Panda both have Apollo in their scum lists and Panda votes there. The thing is that Panda's list is the one filled with the most "don't knows" yet they're sure enough on Apollo to vote. I'm also assuming that their neutral column is actually a list of "don't know" people and not actual neutral suspects. Also intrigued as to why they have Blarg in the town column after he claimed scum yet they said that they believe his claim. Kind of thinking they didn't read that.
Considering the fact that Giant Panda always seems faintly present, I don't actually know why there are so many "don't knows" on their lists. And between finding at least 2 defences of kits during my reread and seeing the similarities on their reads, I'm thinking their on the same side. Plus that Apollo vote - I really can't remember GP mentioning them before.
But all posts are now starting to blend into one because I'm done with staring at this tonight. Quite glad today got extended.
Personally I dont know how you guys can read some of the smallest things (talking about Mafia in general) and then be able to classify people as scum or town.
Personally I dont know how you guys can read some of the smallest things (talking about Mafia in general) and then be able to classify people as scum or town.
Yeah I think I'm going to pause on Apollo for now. The more I think about it, the more I feel like that vote was pandering to the people who have been saying Apollo feels scummy. I'm not content to drop him for good, but my attention is on Giant Panda more than anyone else now, and if GP ends up being scum I'd probably back off Apollo for a bit.
Yeah I think I'm going to pause on Apollo for now. The more I think about it, the more I feel like that vote was pandering to the people who have been saying Apollo feels scummy. I'm not content to drop him for good, but my attention is on Giant Panda more than anyone else now, and if GP ends up being scum I'd probably back off Apollo for a bit.
I'm the same. I feel like I may have fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole on the early days there but now that I'm starting to put 2+2 together, I think I'm not really seeing scum there. Plus I'm struggling to tie Apollo to folk.
I'm a 3-shot protector. I've used two shots. I decided to use 2 of my shots earlier on in the game, so that I'd reduce the chances of me getting killed while I still had spare shots left over. That would be a waste of a strong town ability.
Night 2 I protected Faddy as he was by far the most confirmed town, though I later learned I was really protecting myself due to Faddy's redirect. I've been dropping hints about this for a while, but I think it is much more likely that Faddy was targeted N2 than GoG was or that GoG was the killer. However, this only absolves GoG of the biggest reason for which she's been targeted so far. She could still well be scum, but I think the only convincing case is one that doesn't rely on the N2 jailing. If my theory is right, scum will have been wondering who saved Faddy N2 while at the same time trying to play up the GoG case to try to push an easy lynch.
You'll see in the thread that on day 3 I did briefly entertain the scum GoG theory. I did this because I didn't want to make it obvious that I was the protector, and because GoG wasn't in particular danger of being lynched so I thought there were no harm. Recently though I've had to become more forcibly anti-GoG lynch as it picked up in popularity.
After seeing the deathless N2, I figured I had scared scum off targeting Faddy again. So for N3 I decided to protect the next most town read person, despite me not being as sure: Fantomas. But as we saw scum targeted Faddy again (well probably again).
Night 4, I didn't use my ability because we had more confirmed town or heavily read town, so chances were much lower that I'd pick to protect the same player that scum chose to kill. I figured it was best to save my last shot for the potential late game scenario. Suspicion of me was starting to pick up anyway so I figured I'd be an unlikely scum kill, and if worst came to worst and I became a lynch target, I could claim that day, and then use my last shot on the same night that scum would first know to target me.
Night 2 I protected Faddy as he was by far the most confirmed town, though I later learned I was really protecting myself due to Faddy's redirect. I've been dropping hints about this for a while, but I think it is much more likely that Faddy was targeted N2 than GoG was or that GoG was the killer.
Regarding the GoG situation, I find the scenario that Faddy has mentioned a couple of times to be more likely: he got targeted night 2 for kill as well as a protection. Scum were then stubborn and went back hoping to finish the job night 3.
GoG could easily be scum, but I don't think being jailed N2 is alignment indicative.
This all lines up with why Faddy was targeted on N3. Then after the revive, they threw up their hands and took out one of the replacements instead on N4 because there is almost no chance they were getting protected or revived by whoever was preventing them from getting those last 2 night kills.
I have some questions:
1. Why do you assume Faddy was targeted/you protected yourself n2? You say it's more likely but I don't see how you get there or why it would absolve Gotham either way.
2. Why did you assume at any point you'd be NKed? You seem to have that worry here but when would you have been targeted in the early game?
Well, that completely explains this post that was confusing me earlier:
This all lines up with why Faddy was targeted on N3. Then after the revive, they threw up their hands and took out one of the replacements instead on N4 because there is almost no chance they were getting protected or revived by whoever was preventing them from getting those last 2 night kills.
I don't see how it lines up, actually? It's based on a series of assumptions. I mean, it's possible. But what makes it more likely than any other scenario?
I don't see how it lines up, actually? It's based on a series of assumptions. I mean, it's possible. But what makes it more likely than any other scenario?
I guess it doesn't and I shouldn't jump the gun. There's a lot of stuff that I want to re-read through now based on this claim, especially from D2 and D3.
If my theory is right, scum will have been wondering who saved Faddy N2 while at the same time trying to play up the GoG case to try to push an easy lynch.
So, this should partially explain N2. Theoretically. I don't know how much I like it though. We've confirmed that Melon had the jailer ability and was town, which lines up with her jailing of GoG. We've no ability to confirm Panda's account, as much sense as it makes. That being said, I've town-read Panda for a good long while, so I'm more inclined to believe his account than not. This puts us in a bit of a pickle because if we're not going to go after GoG, whom was the most likely scum until now, then who are we going to put our sights towards? I can't help but feel like I'm up a creek without a paddle right now.
As I said earlier in the game, I thought I was protected on night 2. And GirlofGotham has been towny. I really think we should be lynching kitsunelaine
I have some questions:
1. Why do you assume Faddy was targeted/you protected yourself n2? You say it's more likely but I don't see how you get there or why it would absolve Gotham either way.
2. Why did you assume at any point you'd be NKed? You seem to have that worry here but when would you have been targeted in the early game?
1. Faddy was confirmed town by game mechanics. It seems highly likely to me that scum would want them dead, and I guess they decided to go for it hoping there wasn't a protective role. Scum doesn't want confirmed towns to start to pile up. Anyway, it means GoG wasn't targeted, and to me seems a much more likely scenario than GoG happening to be the scum killer.
2. I didn't assume I was going to be night killed, it's just always a chance.
Well I can use my last shot tonight anyway, and the way things were going today there were 2 possibilities: I get lynched, or the rest of the day gets wasted just investigating me or you when I feel there are better possibilities.
1. Faddy was confirmed town by game mechanics. It seems highly likely to me that scum would want them dead, and I guess they decided to go for it hoping there wasn't a protective role. Scum doesn't want confirmed towns to start to pile up. Anyway, it means GoG wasn't targeted, and to me seems a much more likely scenario than GoG happening to be the scum killer.
There's no reason for a scum team to go after a single confirmed town n2 when a doctor/protective role is likely to have shots and not protected n1 (if it's a doctor who can't cover same target twice in a row). That's asking for your kill to be stopped.
As I said earlier in the game, I thought I was protected on night 2. And GirlofGotham has been towny. I really think we should be lynching kitsunelaine
"i managed to get a bunch of people voting for a person because i screamed enough about it, the fact that they all then voted for that person means that that person must be scum"
I think I addressed this earlier, something something "the plural of anecdote isn't evidence"
There's no reason for a scum team to go after a single confirmed town n2 when a doctor/protective role is likely to have shots and not protected n1 (if it's a doctor who can't cover same target twice in a row). That's asking for your kill to be stopped.
"i managed to get a bunch of people voting for a person because i screamed enough about it, the fact that they all then voted for that person means that that person must be scum"
I think I addressed this earlier, something something "the plural of anecdote isn't evidence"
As I said earlier in the game, I thought I was protected on night 2. And GirlofGotham has been towny. I really think we should be lynching kitsunelaine
That's the dumbest justification i've ever heard. You're pointing at the voters, not at any reason for voting. Make an argument. Just once. You never have before.
That's the dumbest justification i've ever heard. You're pointing at the voters, not at any reason for voting. Make an argument. Just once. You never have before.
I don't want to be lynched "Because Faddy said so". That's the most anti-town rallying cry in the fucking world you guys. Please don't be this dense. If you want to vote for me have reasons that make sense.
