Don't feel too bad, this isn't the game to really experience HDR with.
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Marvel's Spider-Man: The Complete Digital Foundry Analysis!
- Thread starter zombiejames
- Start date
Don't feel too bad, this isn't the game to really experience HDR with.
Anyway to check what your TV expects the nit value to be? Hoping it looks good on my ks8000
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Industry is still moving up the HDR learning curve. Some of the Netflix shows are like when you would waggle a pole into the screen to show of stereoscopic 3d. I have a Sony OLED, and sometimes it actually hurts to look at the screen. I have 0 problems with developers erring on the side of caution.
I've got the same display, it mostly just treats the output 1:1 and then ignores the highlights beyond a certain point. It shouldn't be an issue for you, however it may be a game where you wish to engage a little bit of dynamic contrast, which will try and expande the output a little further
One of the insomniac guys is an HDR fiend, they definatey know what they are doing. HDR is essentially an artists tool and I'm sure they have their reasons.
Anyways, it's good to see different approaches
I have my dynamic contrast set to medium for HDR anyway as I've been told it acts differently than when SDR is playing. I definitely feels it improves the image on HDR while it makes SDR content worse
Meant to quote Dark1x lol
I think it depends a lot on the content, I left it turned on when I was playing Destiny 2 (after playing the HDR cockup that was Nier) and it almost blew my eyes out of the back of my head. It almost hurt it was so contrasty.
Thanks for the writeup! I suppose it's a slight disappointment, but then again, with the game looking as good as it does already, I can appreciate them at least shaking things up if it means sticking to their artists vision! Some kind of HDR is better than none at all of course (as long as it isn't botched like Nier's)!
No, but I have pretty much everything else that does though. I just figured by now I would have gotten one. Might have to go shopping soon.
I know it's hard, but it's time to sit down and swallow your food.
John, your too kind in the number of responses to this goof.
Lol people one by one counting the number of explosions like the sesame street guy in part of an old E3 video as a way to judge the technical achievement of the full game. I'ma count the number of explosions in that Detroit demo btw.
I suggest anyone having doubts to check out the era photography thread because it looks fantastic.
I suggest anyone having doubts to check out the era photography thread because it looks fantastic.
Trying to find something to stop the tears.
I mean his agenda is clear when claiming Forza is the best looking game ever while GoW isn't even close.
You will more than likely find him under some TimDog Tweets or something like that claiming their "time will come"
We still only have a handful of HDR capable displays at our studio, so the content is authored and lit on normal displays, and then there's a HDR pass at the end. Would not be surprised if the same is true at Insomniac. Or at least, was true for the majority of production. Hopefully the price of HDR reference quality monitors will come down far enough to use in the entire pipeline soon. When that happens, I'm sure HDR will become second nature for all concerned.
Personally I'm using a consumer grade LCD because it supports stereoscopic, and that was important the last time my kit got upgraded.
Thank you for the hard work Dark1x. I found the analysis very interesting and fair.
Have you ever reviewed a game? I'd love to read or watch your work.
I hope the mods will be a little stricter about the blatant kind of trolling going on in this thread. It's so painfully obvious, so why let it continue?
Have you ever reviewed a game? I'd love to read or watch your work.
I hope the mods will be a little stricter about the blatant kind of trolling going on in this thread. It's so painfully obvious, so why let it continue?
Yeah, I'd assumed this is the case, maybe Sony got hold of a Sony BVM-X300 for them.
I mean, is that the kind of thing a studio might actually lease or hire for a period of time? They are like 30k
I have a sneaking suspcision that a couple of studios have put out games where the HDR pass (as you describe it) has been done on a consumer grade TV which has been doing it's own processing.
God of War and Forza Horizon 3 are 2 examples of the image just looking weird because of that.
You are armchair. John is a professional.
From what I've read, he pointed out that he thinks you don't know what you're talking about. As someone who does what he does professionally, and not senselessly on a message board, I think he has grounds to make that sort of claim. How is what he said an insult, not rather a reality check?
I think this is the one time I don't mind because it's funny to read.
Hey if someone on John's level told me I didn't know what I was talking about when i really thought that I did and also thought I was onto something... I too would feel insulted.
Feeling insulted is a perspective, that doesn't definitively make what was said, an insult. How you filter what was said and how you go on to deal with it, is a choice. This guy doesn't really want a discussion though. He wants to perpetuate nonsense in every Digital Foundry thread and hope that it leads to something bigger and revelatory enough for the downgrade bandwagon to pick up speed again. Reality is though, that he's tried it on similarly with with other Sony exclusives and it has been rightfully dismissed as the crazy talk that it is. There are no lessons to be learned with this character.
I hate to pile in, but he's also proven time and time and again that his knowledge on these things is extremely skewed and born of ignorance, and essentially exists only to critique the visuals of certain PlayStation exclusives.
For example, he'll criticise a wooden handle in God of War for not being the correct wood material or not looking right in sunlight; "in comparison that type of wood doesn't look exactly like that in sunlight. it almost looks like its glowing", and then use some random Internet image of a completely different type of wood to prove his point, not even realising there are countless different types of wood, such as Jacobean, Hickory, Oak, Burl etc, with an almost unlimited number of variations of these woods, with each and every cut being unique in grain, colour etc. On top of that, most axe handles are colour dyed and/or varnished too, which further mixes things up. All of these factors just make his claim to know exactly what that specific type of wood should or shouldn't look like, frankly ridiculous and laughable. And there's been many examples like this.
Hell we're all still waiting for this Unreal demo he promised he'd make that would match Detroit's graphics quality. If I remember correctly, he said it'd take him like 24 hours, yet here we are roughly 2 months later and still nothing. Just disingenuous.
His schtick is well noted among those of us who frequent threads on Sony's exclusive games, but man you hit nails on the head. Nib95 too.
Let's move on and enjoy this marvellous game that I can now play.
OMG it haS QTE autocomplete hell yes.
Some people here are really something.. is funny how many of this have their post history private.. game is BONKERS and tomorrow is the big day
Puddles of tears lol
Our good friend EvilBoris did an analysis "The game itself offers no HDR configuration justbeyond a standard brightness adjustment."
But
"Despite the overall lower values involved in the output of the image, when you see the HDR output working it's magic on bright light sources, it's unmistakingly HDR"
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-hdr-of-spider-man.66961/
Our good friend EvilBoris did an analysis "The game itself offers no HDR configuration justbeyond a standard brightness adjustment."
But
"Despite the overall lower values involved in the output of the image, when you see the HDR output working it's magic on bright light sources, it's unmistakingly HDR"
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-hdr-of-spider-man.66961/
This literally looks like the Spider-Man game pretty much every Spidey fan has dreamt of as a kid.
Who could've thought that when we actually reach that visual fidelity of our imaginations, people would talk about puddle locations.
After 2 hours with the game all this nonsense just seems more surreal.
Who could've thought that when we actually reach that visual fidelity of our imaginations, people would talk about puddle locations.
After 2 hours with the game all this nonsense just seems more surreal.
Is the HDR bad as in it just looks dimmer than it could be or the colours are more limited?
Because in Assassin's Creed Origins the HDR/SDR difference was absolutely massive with just the difference in the amount of colours alone, the SDR visuals looked like a cartoon in comparison.
Because in Assassin's Creed Origins the HDR/SDR difference was absolutely massive with just the difference in the amount of colours alone, the SDR visuals looked like a cartoon in comparison.
I was shocked when the GIF started movingBest looking open world city I've seen. Looks unreal. The detail density, lighting, and amount of life and npcs is fantastic.
Lol the IGN video is making rounds on facebook and the ignorance of regular people is pretty crazy. Saw some people saying the game "got Divisioned", and people thinking DoF is actually a blurry picture because they can't see the focal point thanks to cropping the videos. Smh.
SCNR, this was just too fitting. XD
Dark1x one quote from the insomniac interview makes my neck hair stand up:
I'm not sure if you covered this, but I'm quite sure jstevenson told us the game does supersampling by itself. Haven't found the time to play yet. Someone please tell me this game of all games doesn't force me to enable the system switch for supersampling! :(
What is a little bit disappointing and what hasn't been addressed yet is that the game apparently uses different character models during gameplay and cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode.
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider spidersuit of the game. There are visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider spidersuit of the game. There are visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
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What is a little bit disappointing and what hasn't been addressed yet is that the game apparently uses different character models during gameplay and cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode.
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider suit of the game, visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
It's all part of the smoke and mirrors of modern gaming. I'm suprised they let it through like that
So I guess #puddlegate was real after all. The rest had been upgraded though, and the game looks pretty good overall. Nice IQ on my PS4 Pro, especially for an open world game.
Recent Sony AAA exclusives managed to keep the character model quality in gameplay just as high as in cutscenes, for example Detroit, God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, Horizon Zero Dawn etc.
In Spider-Man's case it is especially disappointing to me, because in trailers and promotion screens I have been marveling (no pun intended) at the perfectly modelled spidersuits, now in reality they are in part quite crudely modelled.
Weird however that the classic spidersuit, that players are going to ditch soon at the beginning of the game, actually is of the highest model quality and shows few if none discrepancies in gameplay and cutscenes.
You sure now it's not a bug? Cause so far I also thought it is, cause other models look amazing, for anyone not looking into the OT, this is what I wrote there, every pic without selfie mode:
"Man, the pre order DLCs indeed look like absolute shit in comparison to any ingame suit. I don't know if it's because of the "unlocked with pre order code bug" or if they look like that in general. I mean, look at that, 2 of the normal costumes in the game:
F'N breathtaking, right? Now look at this garbage:
That's a fucking difference."
"Man, the pre order DLCs indeed look like absolute shit in comparison to any ingame suit. I don't know if it's because of the "unlocked with pre order code bug" or if they look like that in general. I mean, look at that, 2 of the normal costumes in the game:
F'N breathtaking, right? Now look at this garbage:
That's a fucking difference."
It's weird that they actually have the models in higher quality in the game but don't use them for gameplay, when other models stay high quality in gameplay. That apparently isn't the problem. Yeah, maybe it is a bug...
Apart from visibly lower polygon count and slightly less sharp textures than other suits they imo don't look that bad. I think that spider logo on the one suit is supposed to look as if it was quickly and carelessy airbrushed on. That's why it is a little blurred and slanted. Only this one looks imo pretty bad:
Do you have an image of it during a cutcsene or selfie mode?
One thing the video didn't mention is the self shadowing, if that's even a term. I'm in the lab for the first time and the dithering in Peter's face is pretty damn rough.
Georgeous game otherwise, great talent at Insomniac.
Georgeous game otherwise, great talent at Insomniac.
What is a little bit disappointing and what hasn't been addressed yet is that the game apparently uses different character models during gameplay and cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode.
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider spidersuit of the game. There are visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
I think it might be a bug, I was just admiring his feet and how they didn't look like yours. I switched suits and back again and then they were the same
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No no, you seemed to misinterpret my postings. The black suit and the hoodie suit look fucking amazing, even in this zoom level, just the DLC suits look like garbage. And yes, sorry if that's a bit exaggerating for some of you but these textures on the Iron suit, holy fuck, that's some low res stuff there, look at this pic on 100%. Also, don't like the dirty look of it.
In selfie mode? Yes, it looks better. Photos in a few minutes.
Pics? it's hard to believe, I installed it completely new with a save from yesterday and it still had these low poly shoes.
I freaking love the DF Retro stuff... can't believe how much I've learnt about the history of video game development just by watching through them. Keep up the good work, man, your stuff is stellar.
