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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
The thing that bugs me the most about "Resistance Leader Knuckles" is that I feel like the Knuckles I actually knew would hunker down on Angel Island and not give a shit about anything else. Would've been cute if that was their base and the 1% Eggman couldn't take because Knuckles is such a stubborn fighter.
But nah I don't think Angel Island even exists anymore, let alone matters. Knuckles is just a dumb idiot who follows Sonic around and is secretly a master military general.
But nah I don't think Angel Island even exists anymore, let alone matters. Knuckles is just a dumb idiot who follows Sonic around and is secretly a master military general.
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Super agreed here. Even in Sonic Battle the lore was more or less in line with what the world of Sonic shaped up to be. They threw it all away.
Hey YakuzaERA is doing pretty well too!
In regards to Sonic, I think Sega JP is still sort of a question mark. Granted this year was a lot of doubling-back (for better and for worse in both titles) for the series, so I'm curious as to what their plan is going forward. I have confidence in the PagodaWest squad's future endeavors (though I do worry about the possibility of the style staling out), and I think Sonic Team itself just needs to work on putting the right talent where it needs to be and making better use of their timelines and resources. I'm not a dev however so I'm only speculating, but their previous 2 efforts (Runners excluded) definitely needed more time in the oven.
Also a part of me is curious if the series will ever have any third party developers like Dimps working with it again and doing their own thing. I know Dimps catches a lot of mostly-deserved flack, but I think they understood a lot about what makes the series exciting to play and how to branch off from established gameplay styles in interesting ways even if it was done haphazardly at times. Their games also had really on point characterization for when it was present, though I can't be sure how much of that was them vs input from Sega. If Pagoda/Cannon or Sonic Team could fill that niche as well as their "main" styles then that would be fine too, but I'd rather see more focused efforts from either of them playing to their own strengths.
The lack of a PC announcement for VC4 is whatever right now. I think the chances of it happening are pretty high, but in the chance that it doesn't make it it's still nice to see the game being released like it is regardless. The announcement sorta reminded me of Shenmue 3, where it was quickly followed by "alright, VC2 and VC3 remaster time!?!?" comments. Like I get where you're coming from, but damn isn't it enough to be excited for this shiny new thing which is coming out very soon? I'd love to hear more about efforts from Sega EU concerning current PC projects but I won't pretend that they're all quick, easy jobs or are even viable investments. VC4 likely is a great investment though, but like Yakuza you may just have to get in where you fit in or play the waiting game. Just like the waiting game for all of those 7th and 6th gen Sega titles on Steam... b-but I doubt VC4's turnaround on PC would take that long right?!
but really, yes it should be on PC upfront and it sucks that it wasn't announced as such considering VC1's success :p buuut I'm hopeful
Other than that, I'm mostly satisfied with Sega's 2017. The Yakuza train is still full steam ahead even beyond 6, Virtual-On making a comeback next year, Puyo got to feast on the Switch, that arcade Daytona finally some changes it needed, Atlus got to flex, Platinum titles got PC love, etc. And hey Sega Forever is still going, maybe it will finally get beyond Mega Drive titles next year... maybe.
The idea that Forces is Colours done right actually offends me.
Crumbs, the wisps are literally used entirely to circumvent the actual stages instead of compliment them and modern Sonic level design has devolved into enemies lining up like bowling pins to be boosted through in 2 minute bursts.
Crumbs, the wisps are literally used entirely to circumvent the actual stages instead of compliment them and modern Sonic level design has devolved into enemies lining up like bowling pins to be boosted through in 2 minute bursts.
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Has anyone else noticed that both Sonic Mania and Forces are listed as games for PSX this year? What's up with that?
Well, now you know how I feel when some people say Colors is better than Unleashed. In all serious though, I truthfully do believe that as far as Wisps and short-level length Sonics go, Forces absolutely does it better.
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The only reason I feel this way is because Colors doesn't have as much filler. Too much of Unleashed is spent on the Werehog (who I'm mostly fine with, besides the length of his levels) and the hub world stuff. The daytime levels in Unleashed are mostly excellent, if a bit lacking in terms of alternate paths.
The wisps were handled well in the game they were originally designed for. It would have been nice if their appearance was kept self-contained (plus their appropriate inclusion in Generations), but nah. Sonic "we don't like to return to old ideas" Team keep bringing them and making them worse each time back because...????????
I keep telling people Battle was the GOAT, but nope, you get more Wisps for no reason instead smh
I'm gonna be a Debbie Downer and predict that if Battle were to resurface, it would be in the form of a mobile title which gacha elements. Especially considering that getting abilities for Emeril was basically the same concept just without the paying lol.
>>$49.99 Best Value!<<
>>$49.99 Best Value!<<
I don't know if I'd say that I think Unleashed is better than Colours but I certainly think that I probably enjoyed the first experience with Unleashed more. Compared to how big and fresh it felt and how well it presented Sonic's world Colours just felt kind of... underwhelming in comparison. It was fun and funny and all of that yeah, but it just wasn't as exciting.
Halve the length of the werehog stages (and fix the battle music constantly cutting in lol) and tweak the medal requirements and I'd probably have an easier time saying "yeah, Unleashed is better." But right now Colours is a much easier game to go back to even if in their time periods I was more wowed by Unleashed.
Halve the length of the werehog stages (and fix the battle music constantly cutting in lol) and tweak the medal requirements and I'd probably have an easier time saying "yeah, Unleashed is better." But right now Colours is a much easier game to go back to even if in their time periods I was more wowed by Unleashed.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. There was a lot to admire in Unleashed and I can see where people are coming from when they claim it was Sonic Team's last ambitious game. They really went all out with it.
I'm not too big of a fan of Unleashed's use of environments based off of real world locales though. Colors has some really creative and inspired levels and we haven't seen anything like that in recent titles. One of my favorite aspects of the Sonic franchise are these more imaginative level themes. It's a big part of why I've got a soft spot for Heroes.
Colors gets points over Unleashed for being a more consistently-designed game, but I don't feel consistency is a virtue over more creative or contextually-driven design which Unleashed has in spades. It also doesn't help that I've never given a damn about the Wisps from the outset. At best, they're unnecessarily-gated instances of Sonic's old abilities that he used to be able to activate in far more interesting circumstances. Like, seriously, whose fucking idea was it to tie Sonic's boost ability to the white wisp that's only available on certain stretches of certain levels in a style of gameplay called boost? Otherwise, they either replace actual level design, they're just annoying to control, or they're utterly useless and forgettable. There's no sense that they augment Sonic's basic move set or provide thoughtful platforming challenges. All they do is to serve to slow the game down. And then it's not even fun to control regardless. You can't aggressively speedrun the damn thing like you can Unleashed's day stages because it's just slower and more on-rails, meaning all of the physical limitations of the style are that much more apparent. Just jumping alone in Colors just feels even more abysmal than in Unleashed, especially since even the Werehog had a more satisfying and helpful double jump and other recovery maneuvers. Seriously, the Werehog feels better to control than Colors Sonic; I'll stand by that shit to my grave.
Overall, I feel Colors gets as much of a pass as it does because it was the first 3D game after significant backlash hit with ShtH to not do anything weird conceptually or control wise. Otherwise it's as mediocre as the rest of the games that came afterward and wasn't worth the price of admission when companies were dropping shit like Rayman Origins and Donkey Kong Country Returns. I literally can't stand the thought of ever playing Colors again.
Overall, I feel Colors gets as much of a pass as it does because it was the first 3D game after significant backlash hit with ShtH to not do anything weird conceptually or control wise. Otherwise it's as mediocre as the rest of the games that came afterward and wasn't worth the price of admission when companies were dropping shit like Rayman Origins and Donkey Kong Country Returns. I literally can't stand the thought of ever playing Colors again.
Colors is "good" at best and had become more boring over time because every game after aped it's general format and story structure, but yes, it does deserve points for not being an otherwise amazing game that shits the bed so hard with such an outrageously stupid game idea that it becomes one of the go-to Sonic punchlines.
I want to love Unleashed so bad and it just aggressively won't let me, at least Colors let's me tepidly like it.
Edit - I guess a better way to put it is that Colors may not be better than Unleashed, but it is also not even close to half as outright dumb and bad as Unleashed could be.
I want to love Unleashed so bad and it just aggressively won't let me, at least Colors let's me tepidly like it.
Edit - I guess a better way to put it is that Colors may not be better than Unleashed, but it is also not even close to half as outright dumb and bad as Unleashed could be.
I think Colors is remarkable in that it's good in spite of itself. Despite being Unleashed watered down, despite being on the Wii, despite being "more like Mario" than most Sonic games, despite its outwardly kiddy appearance, despite slowing you down a bit more often, etc. Despite all of that, it managed to be thoroughly solid from the moment you press start to the moment the credits start rolling. There wasn't anything too terrible or divisive included, and problematic elements never stuck around long enough to become a major issue. It was the first Sonic game you could call competent without caveat in a long time.
Sonic Colors is probably the ultimate fluke.
Sonic Colors is probably the ultimate fluke.
I thought you all might enjoy this Medium post:
https://medium.com/@siegarettes/sonic-the-most-sincere-hedgehog-in-the-world-754a65eec80d
https://medium.com/@siegarettes/sonic-the-most-sincere-hedgehog-in-the-world-754a65eec80d
"The Ultimate Fluke" is definitely the best way to sum up Colors. I can understand Sonic Team keeping Kishimoto at the helm for Lost World after the critical and commercial success of Colors, and hell, I can maybe understand them keeping him after Lost World. But after Forces, I really hope he takes a backseat from directorial duties. His vision for Sonic's gameplay just isn't one I'm interested in.
I was actually in the middle of reading this one on Medium as well.
https://medium.com/mammon-machine-z...gic-weirdness-of-sonic-adventure-41af91883445
I truly wish I was as skilled in prose as these guys. Genuinely some of the best writing on the series I've seen.
Eliminate Werehog and medal collecting and I'd say it's better than Colors. With Werehog and medal collecting, though?
I remember playing through Unleashed and just thinking it could not possibly get worse, but BOY DOES IT EVER! And all because of THAT BLASTED WEREHOG! Unleashed has hub worlds which I like, and the Pixar style is palatable and the visuals are stunning. Day levels are enjoyable for the most part albeit flawed in ways, but still thrilling to play. However, you can't really overlook how repetitive and terrible those Werehog stages get. I also poured in so much time, SO MUCH TIME into medal collecting but I still didn't have enough for Jungle Joy Ride. And after all the bloody medal farming in the rest of the game and how annoying the Werehog stages got, I got fed up with it and quit.
I cannot even begin to imagine how annoying Eggman Land is if the other stages were annoying. Perhaps I'll turn on my 360 and try this shit again in the next few days.
I remember playing through Unleashed and just thinking it could not possibly get worse, but BOY DOES IT EVER! And all because of THAT BLASTED WEREHOG! Unleashed has hub worlds which I like, and the Pixar style is palatable and the visuals are stunning. Day levels are enjoyable for the most part albeit flawed in ways, but still thrilling to play. However, you can't really overlook how repetitive and terrible those Werehog stages get. I also poured in so much time, SO MUCH TIME into medal collecting but I still didn't have enough for Jungle Joy Ride. And after all the bloody medal farming in the rest of the game and how annoying the Werehog stages got, I got fed up with it and quit.
I cannot even begin to imagine how annoying Eggman Land is if the other stages were annoying. Perhaps I'll turn on my 360 and try this shit again in the next few days.
I don't get it either. That shit felt like legit torture on top of the Werehog. The worst I've ever seen in terms of requirements in a platformer to proceed. It also doesn't help that later on in the game that after you collect the more obvious medals, they become a lot more difficult to obtain and even find.
Unleashed is clearly a game made by a bunch of talented and competent people whose work was utterly wasted by some manager up top who was yelling "NOBODY WILL BUY A $60 GAME THAT ISN'T 30 HOURS LONG!!!!!"
Medal collecting was 100% even more length padding.
No doubt about it.
That's one of my praises with Forces... It is no-frills, no-padding, and very replay-able. You know what? I'm gonna go play it some more right now.
Y'know... I actually got through Unleashed back when it came out without ever having to search for more medals to proceed...
The first time I played HD Unleashed was on a friend's savefile. He was stuck before Adabat because he didn't have enough medals so my first "playthrough" was going back and hunting medals/unlocking stages to hunt more medals for him, eventually beating the game.
When I eventually got the game myself I did end up going for the Plat anyway.
With Colours you can play challenge mode and get a tasty non interrupted Sonic outing lasting a good 2 or three hours with a nice mix of speed, route choice (since the wisps are all available from the word go here) and platforming as per the classics.
With Unleashed you just go back and select daytime stages from a menu because the vast majority of content is unfortunately pants. I wont deny its positive points, its really neat world adventure tone, art and audio. But it's a game of 8 whole stages fluffed up to the absolute max.
With Unleashed you just go back and select daytime stages from a menu because the vast majority of content is unfortunately pants. I wont deny its positive points, its really neat world adventure tone, art and audio. But it's a game of 8 whole stages fluffed up to the absolute max.
I miss hub worlds and love that Unleashed had them, but their execution could have been much better. Adventure's were larger but (understandably due to hardware limitations) a lot more sparse in content, and yet Unleashed's were for the most part pretty dense but extremely cramped and uncomfortable. There's yet to be a Peach's Castle or Delfino Plaza in Sonic and I wish there was.
That said though one of my favorite things to do in Unleashed last time I played was just run around and keep up with the townspeople. I really like the girl and her sister in Shamar, and the love triangle going on in Spagonia. LOVED that some of them would travel and you'd see them in different countries from time to time. It's just too bad that the later Werehog levels are so bad that they basically invalidate the whole game. :|
That said though one of my favorite things to do in Unleashed last time I played was just run around and keep up with the townspeople. I really like the girl and her sister in Shamar, and the love triangle going on in Spagonia. LOVED that some of them would travel and you'd see them in different countries from time to time. It's just too bad that the later Werehog levels are so bad that they basically invalidate the whole game. :|
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For fun, I thought I'd rank the 3D Sonic games into tiers. Make your own if you'd like(or tell me how wrong I am for putting Heroes above Adventure 1).
Genuinely-Excellent-Tier
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Colors
Flawed-But-I-Still-Like-Them-A-Lot-Damn-It-Tier
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic Unleashed
Okay-Now-We're-Getting-Kinda-Questionable-But-Whatever-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Forces
- Sonic Lost World
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Shadow the Hedgehog
Don't-You-Know-That-Your-Actions-Have-Consequences-Tier
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (does it even count???)
Secret-Little-Booty-Where-Do-You-Put-These-Tier
- Sonic Jam Overworld that I've never played (?)
- Sonic R
- Sonic Dash (???)
Genuinely-Excellent-Tier
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Colors
Flawed-But-I-Still-Like-Them-A-Lot-Damn-It-Tier
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic Unleashed
Okay-Now-We're-Getting-Kinda-Questionable-But-Whatever-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Forces
- Sonic Lost World
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Shadow the Hedgehog
Don't-You-Know-That-Your-Actions-Have-Consequences-Tier
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (does it even count???)
Secret-Little-Booty-Where-Do-You-Put-These-Tier
- Sonic Jam Overworld that I've never played (?)
- Sonic R
- Sonic Dash (???)
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That's more than understandable. I personally know the game well enough that I can have fun with most of the stages and I don't think the gun gameplay is all that bad (though the very concept of it, or the rest of the game, is stupid-as-shit). A lot of the game would be fixed if the game was just a linear bunch of levels and didn't have the morality system. It'd still be in the same tier, though.
Genuinely-Acceptable-Tier
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic Colors
Flawed-But-I-Still-Like-Them-A-Lot-Damn-It-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
Okay-Now-We're-Getting-Kinda-Questionable-But-Whatever-Tier
- Nothing I've played from the 3D series exists here; we bad now
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Sonic Forces
- Sonic Lost World
Ken-Penders-Tier
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic Boom
- Sonic the Hedgehog 2006
- Shadow the Hedgehog
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic Colors
Flawed-But-I-Still-Like-Them-A-Lot-Damn-It-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
Okay-Now-We're-Getting-Kinda-Questionable-But-Whatever-Tier
- Nothing I've played from the 3D series exists here; we bad now
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Sonic Forces
- Sonic Lost World
Ken-Penders-Tier
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic Boom
- Sonic the Hedgehog 2006
- Shadow the Hedgehog
Genuinely-Excellent-Tier
Beautiful-Mess-That-I-Love-More-Than-I-Should-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
This-Is-Fine-Tier
- Sonic Colors
- Sonic Generations
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic 06
- Sonic Lost World
Don't-You-Know-That-Your-Actions-Have-Consequences-Tier
- Shadow the Hedgehog
- Sonic Forces
I think that's all the ones I played. The rest I never bothered on lol.
Beautiful-Mess-That-I-Love-More-Than-I-Should-Tier
- Sonic Adventure
This-Is-Fine-Tier
- Sonic Colors
- Sonic Generations
Bad-But-Not-Complete-Garbo-Tier
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic 06
- Sonic Lost World
Don't-You-Know-That-Your-Actions-Have-Consequences-Tier
- Shadow the Hedgehog
- Sonic Forces
I think that's all the ones I played. The rest I never bothered on lol.
SammyClassicSonicFan warned us. He told us our actions would have consequences.
And now Beef is a mod.
you fricks!!!!
And now Beef is a mod.
you fricks!!!!
lol I haven't come anywhere near that but I know which one I hate less :^)
I 100%'d both of these games(twice for 06!) so who am I to judge?