Ciri in Netflix Witcher series probably won't be white

Lmao we still on people tip toeing on 'I want it to be true to the books' instead of just saying what they want to say. And now a new argument is that the author is secretly held hostage by Twitter and internet culture and in reality he is crying in anger over not being able to speak his mind. I didn't realize you spoke with the author vs the team behind the show who have him as a creative consultant.

Admiral Woofington said:

Lmao we still on people tip toeing on 'I want it to be true to the books' instead of just saying what they want to say. And now a new argument is that the author is secretly held hostage by Twitter and internet culture and in reality he is crying in anger over not being able to speak his mind. I didn't realize you spoke with the author vs the team behind the show who have him as a creative consultant.

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People must think this is Reddit. Do they really think people here don't see through the bullshit racist spin "I just want it to stay true to the Slavic/Polish roots" when they didn't say a peep about Cavill?

It's almost funny if it wasn't sad.

7Z7 said:

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters?

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Every case is different, but in this particular case, I think it's because the reasoning was less about "How do we find a place to cast POC in this story," than it is "How do we communicate to the audience that, to the people of this world, Ciri is a different ethnicity than the rest of the characters?" It's imposing a modern sense of race onto time/setting where race was more about language and culture and there really was no concept of "whiteness." They're worried that that dimension of the story could be lost on an audience that sees white people as sharing an ethnicity inherently.

Casting ought to support the narrative, and in this case I think it does.

It's sad that this is even "news"

But that's the world we live in.

Red Devil said:

I don't really mind whoever would play Ciri, and hopefully most people would share the same sense. Hopefully.

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You, I like you.

metalslimer said:

lmao I was kind of taking you seriously until this nonsense as if changing one of the few black superheroes to another ethnicity is anything remotely similar to the overwhelmingly white rest of fiction

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This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?

7Z7 said:

I'm not a big fan when you don't respect an original work to adapt to today's society by offering what seems to be a quota to be respected to please everyone.

Beyond The Witcher, I see original characters seeing their origins modified. We see female heroes from DC Comics becoming transsexuals, characters becoming black or Asian. It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters? We often talk about changing the ethnicities of well-known heroes, but we never talk about the possibility of creating a new black or LGBT superhero or whatever. The imagination is infinite then instead of wanting to change absolutely everything that is already invented, let's create new characters. Heroes like Black Panther, I ask for more of them because they are so incredible.

Moreover, the opposite effect is never mentioned: How would the world react if Black Panther became white?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the result even if adaptations of this kind are never a great success. Maybe Netflix will do a better job of it.

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It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.

The part of NYC Peter is from is faaaaaar less white than it was 20 years ago, let alone 50 years ago when the comic was starting. In reality a character like MJ would likely not be white in a 2018. And Homecoming reflects this.

7Z7 said:

This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?

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No it's not one example among many because you didn't even read my post. There is no comparison there

And no black people complaining about one of their few superheroes being changed would not be racist. Yes, people complaining with inconsistent logic and shoddy reasoning reeks of racist undertones in the case of a generic white character being changed

7Z7 said:

This is one example among many. Of course it's not going to happen (and fortunately!)

It's just to illustrate an opposite effect. If a black character turns white, if there are complaints, will it also be considered racism?

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You are missing the point entirely.

Diversity in media is to reflect society. As a species we are becoming less white every day. White is the slowest growing race on the planet and will be the minority in America by 2045 for example.

Diversity in media is done not to "change races" just because. It is done to better reflect society, to better reflect how people actually look. Changing a minority to white is the exact opposite of this. Its a moral and ethical imperative to try and reflect how society is changing and have our media look more like how the audience actually looks. Thinking it is comparable means you don't understand the point of increased diversity in media.

7Z7 said:

I'm not a big fan when you don't respect an original work to adapt to today's society by offering what seems to be a quota to be respected to please everyone.

Beyond The Witcher, I see original characters seeing their origins modified. We see female heroes from DC Comics becoming transsexuals, characters becoming black or Asian. It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man which goes from redhead to black, why don't we create new characters? We often talk about changing the ethnicities of well-known heroes, but we never talk about the possibility of creating a new black or LGBT superhero or whatever. The imagination is infinite then instead of wanting to change absolutely everything that is already invented, let's create new characters. Heroes like Black Panther, I ask for more of them because they are so incredible.

Moreover, the opposite effect is never mentioned: How would the world react if Black Panther became white?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the result even if adaptations of this kind are never a great success. Maybe Netflix will do a better job of it.

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The purpose of certain books, comic books, and other general media over the years has been to make the people reading / watching them feel more powerful than they really are and allow them to overcome certain aspects of their lives. Why can't LGBT, Black, Spanish, Asian, etc people be portrayed as Ciri, Wolverine, Cyclops, Spiderman, MJ, or Batman? The more relatable an icon is to any person, the more that person can get into the character. Personally, I don't relate to any of what I've mentioned, but who am I to take away some of characters I enjoy and make them unrelatable to others? Anywho, that's my take on it.

MonsterMech said:

It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.

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Bravo, well said.

MonsterMech said:

It's easy to say things like this from a position of overrepresentation.

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation.

Marginalized groups don't have the privilege to say "leave the characters as they are" cause there are almost no characters representing them in the first place.

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This is a brilliant post. Thank you.

MonsterMech said:

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be. So as the world moves beyond those racist ideals, and creators have more diverse audiences, then they should show some love to those audiences in the way of representation..

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Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.

GoodMorninPluto said:

Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.

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Poland, like much of the west has had its fair share of incidents of racism towards black people.

One of the high-profile events regarding blacks in Poland was the death of Maxwell Itoya in 2010, a Nigerian street vendor from a mixed marriage who was selling counterfeit goods.He was shot in the upper leg by a policeman during a street brawl that followed a screening check at a market in Warsaw and died of a severed artery. The event led to a media debate regarding policing and racism.

There have been other cases of violence against blacks in recent years. In Strzelce Opolskie, Black soccer players from LZS Piotrówka club were attacked in a bar by fans of the opposing team in 2015 and two young men were arrested In a Łódź dance-club, a black student was attacked in a men's washroom.

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Not that it matters because this show is from a US based production studio and Witcher is not based in Poland.

GoodMorninPluto said:

Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.

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you see who's in government these days? and the rise of neo-nazis and heavy anti-black and anti-black racism pervading Polish society?

If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world.

Cheebo said:

Poland, like much of the west has had its fair share of incidents of racism towards black people.

Not that it matters because this show is from a US based production studio and Witcher is not based in Poland.

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So if you are quoting Wikipedia, I presume you can see also one little snippet above.

Poland was under German and Soviet occupation during World War II. At this period Polish people were harshly discriminated against in their own occupied country. The Nazi German regime saw the Poles as "subhumans" (untermenschen) and were fit only for slavery and extermination. Most of the Nazis considered the Poles, like the majority of other Slavs, to be non-Aryan and non-European "masses from the East" which should be either totally annihilated along with the Jews and Gypsies, or entirely expelled from the European continent. Poles were the victims of Nazi crimes against humanity and they were also the main non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Approximately 2.5 million ethnic Poles were exterminated during World War II.

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How nice of you to focus on three isolant cases and sweep 2,5 million of systematic cleansing under the rug.

GoodMorninPluto said:

So if you are quoting Wikipedia, I presume you can see also one little snippet above.

How nice of you to focus on three isolant cases and sweep 2,5 million of systematic cleansing under the rug.

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To deny anyone from a country can be racist because they went through the awful ordeal that was Nazi control and the holocaust is absurd. Entire nations of people don't get a free pass from ever being accused institutionalized racism which is evident in all of the west. There is institutionalized pro-white racism in eastern Europe. To deny it is absurd. It is a plague that infects every majority white nation.

Not to mention it doesn't matter because The Witcher is not based in Poland nor is this a Polish production.

GoodMorninPluto said:

Please tell me about racist history of Poland and who was on short end of receiving stick.

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First off I'll say that I'm disgusted by the fact that I'm even going to entertain this dumb shit, but here goes.....

The post of mine you quoted was talking about popular characters in general, not just the witcher or Poland in particular. Second, there are no polish people in the Witcher and the game is not set in Poland, so I'm not sure why you would even try to stand on this point. Lastly, this book was not written in ancient times. It was written in modern times for a modern audience in which race/racism is a huge factor in how characters are received.

So yeah, your question purposely attempts to obfuscate the point I made, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

If you wanna out yourself as a racist, just do it. No need for the mental gymnastics. People are smart enough to see through that.

MonsterMech said:

The post of mine you quoted was talking about popular characters in general, not just the witcher or Poland in particular.

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If you are not talking about it in particular, you should not use generalization, otherwise it looks like you are accusing Sapkowski of writing his characters white because of him holding racist views and accusing Poland in systematic racism, whereas it actually tremendously suffered from it.

MajinArekkusu said:

Ah yes, cause these authors can truly voice their opinion without being murdered on twitter and journalist sites with countless articles if they speak against it.

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The thought of Sapek giving a fuck about any of that is hilarious, I guess. Hint: he doesn't. If he was in any way displeased and somebody asked him about it, you'd know.

Oh, they're going for the young Ciri. Hopefully there's also the adult version.

MajinArekkusu said:

Ah yes, cause these authors can truly voice their opinion without being murdered on twitter and journalist sites with countless articles if they speak against it.

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Ah Yes, the meek and shy Sapkowski.

Where are people getting this specific talking point about the author being held hostage again?

7Z7 said:

It gives too much of an impression of wanting to give oneself a good image to please society.

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Or REFLECT society depending on your perspective. But, c'mon, let's have the straight white people win for change. :P

JDSN said:

Ah Yes, the meek and shy Sapkowski.

Where are people getting this specific talking point about the author being held hostage again?

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It ruins the "true to the books" excuse so they have to create fake conspiracy theories.

GoodMorninPluto said:

If you are not talking about it in particular, you should not use generalization, otherwise it looks like you are accusing Sapkowski of writing his characters white because of him holding racist views and accusing Poland in systematic racism, whereas it actually tremendously suffered from it.

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Again. Read my post and the one I was replying to. The conversation was about the race of characters in general. My post only referenced America specifically and THE ENTIRE WORLD generally. And I never implied any of this nonsense you posted here.

If that's what you saw in my post, then you need to ask yourself why you would see it.

On the topic of Sapkowski and Poland specifically. The book was written during a time when racial tensions were high in Poland and around the world. So it's inevitable that his work was influenced by that fact. That doesnt make him a racist, but a citizen of the world.

Furthermore as far as I can tell he didn't write in a "race" for his characters. Some had descriptions like Geralt being the "white wolf" for the rest of them skin color was not a focus.

So again your line of questioning and your subsequent follow ups show a severe lack of understanding of what the fuck you are talking about, and an effort to distract from the idea of increasing diversity in media.

You should be ashamed. Go away.

MonsterMech said:

Again. Read my post and the one I was replying to.

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That post specifically mentioned Ciri among others.

Instead of modifying characters like we do with Ciri or like MJ in Spider Man

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To which you replied with "these characters". Did that meant "all mentioned characters except Ciri"?

GoodMorninPluto said:

That post specifically mentioned Ciri among others.

To which you replied with "these characters". Did that meant "all mentioned characters except Ciri"?

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This is why I should have just ignored you.

Feign ignorance to perpetuate racism.

Disgusting behavior.

That guy got banned for his shit. You latching on to his dumb shit. I hope you are next.

Cheebo said:

You are missing the point entirely.

Diversity in media is done not to "change races" just because. It is done to better reflect society, to better reflect how people actually look.

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First of all, sorry for my horrible english.

Said that, I don't get your point. Why a writer "need" to reflect the diversity of the actual society in a fantasy novel, set in a fictional universe, whose purpose is nothing but offer enterteinment to the people? I mean, this is not an educational work or something, just a personal vision of a man who just wanted to transcribe his fictional universe into paper (and earn some money of course xd).

I understand that someone wants a white Ciri, as I understand that others wants a Ciri from another etnicity. Some people don't care about that matter as long as the actress plays her role well. Everyone has his own opinion, and that's perfectly normal and understandable, as long as that opinion is expressed publicly in a respectful manner, of course.

Honestly, I don't care if Ciri is white, black or wathever race they choose. I just want a great actress.

What else am I supposed to understand by yours "these characters" if not the characters specifically mentioned by the user you replied to? Otherwise you are saying that every white character ever created was created white out of racism.

MonsterMech said:

These characters aren't white because that's what's best for the story. They are white because the racist history of America(and the rest of the world) dictated that they should be.

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MonsterMech said:

The conversation was about the race of characters in general. My post only referenced America specifically and THE ENTIRE WORLD generally.

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Benditormenta said:

Said that, I don't get your point. Why a writer "need" to reflect the diversity of the actual society in a fantasy novel, set in a fictional universe, whose purpose is nothing but offer enterteinment to the people? I mean, this is not an educational work or something, just a personal vision of a man who just wanted to transcribe his fictional universe into paper (and earn some money of course xd).

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They writer doesn't need to (especially if the writer's primary audience is majority white), but you should not be surprised when an adaptation by a western studio changes the race of some characters to better reflect their primary audience. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

But what race will Roach be?

GoodMorninPluto said:

What else am I supposed to understand by yours "these characters" if not the characters specifically mentioned by the user you replied to? Otherwise you are saying that every white character ever created was created white out of racism.

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The poster I replied to referenced "D.C. Characters" and "other characters".

Their post was "in general". My reply was the same.

And again the random conclusion you you made up is born out of your own racism. Not anything I said.

svacina said:

They writer doesn't need to (especially if the writer's primary audience is majority white), but you should not be surprised when an adaptation by a western studio changes the race of some characters to better reflect their primary audience. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

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Well yeah, I understand that. And it's their own vision of this fictional universe, so they can change whatever they want (whit limits I mean). And I prefer that way, because we'll have two versions of this work: the one from Sapkowski in the original books, and the one from the responsibles of the series.

Can a mod close this thread at this point? It's providing zero insight or constructive discussion at this point because neither side is going to budge and we are literally circling around the same cycle of dude comes in with 'not racism' concerns, people point out why it's being done or how it shouldn't matter, and they continue to tip toe around it until eventually they get banned when they trip up.

Well...apparently the showrunner just left. That's why we can't have nice things.

EDIT: I am sorry I read this totally wrong. She left twitter.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/09/11/netflix-the-witcher-showrunner-quits-twitter-ciri-casting/

Daniagatha said:

Well...apparently the showrunner just left. That's why we can't have nice things.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/09/11/netflix-the-witcher-showrunner-quits-twitter-ciri-casting/

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Wait... What?

Daniagatha said:

Well...apparently the showrunner just left. That's why we can't have nice things.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/09/11/netflix-the-witcher-showrunner-quits-twitter-ciri-casting/

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She's taking a break from twitter. Can anyone really blame her?

I thought she left the show. Sorry for the misleading post.

There is a rumor that is going around, which originated from the same source that named Henry Cavill Geralt before it was confirmed, of a young English actress of Indian decent being cast as Yennifer.

It doesn't make sense to me due to her age but why would they make something up about an unknown?

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9eh0ge/rumor_anya_chalotra_is_yennefer_netflix_witcher/

Wouldn't put much stock in it

Stryder said:

There is a rumor that is going around, which originated from the same source that named Henry Cavill Geralt before it was confirmed, of a young English actress of Indian decent being cast as Yennifer.

It doesn't make sense to me due to her age but why would they make something up about an unknown?

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9eh0ge/rumor_anya_chalotra_is_yennefer_netflix_witcher/

Wouldn't put much stock in it

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Stryder said:

There is a rumor that is going around, which originated from the same source that named Henry Cavill Geralt before it was confirmed, of a young English actress of Indian decent being cast as Yennifer.

It doesn't make sense to me due to her age but why would they make something up about an unknown?

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9eh0ge/rumor_anya_chalotra_is_yennefer_netflix_witcher/

Wouldn't put much stock in it

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Hm. No opinion on this since I'm not familiar with her work. She looks young which isn't inherently a problem since Yen doesn't age, but her character has an outsized and intimidating personality, and that's what I hope comes across.

Yennefer has also had the equivalent of magical reconstructive surgery seeing as she was born a hunchback.

As an aside, this thread sure did exploooode.

Vela said:

If anything, Poland needs a big dose of distilled blackness into their white veins to get accustomed to a non-white world.

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I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?

GermanSy said:

I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?

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How did you get that out of that post?

GermanSy said:

I think I'm going to vomit. Are you a black supremacist?

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You are going to vomit because he thinks Poland would be better with more diversity? What?????

Every society improves the more diverse it is. Diversity is a fantastic thing. The less homogeneous we are the better we are as a culture and people. This proven time and time again.

Dudes still getting banned ? Mad

This thread has been crazy with the amount of racist shit

I think it would be a lot easier to do this with Yen, Triss or any number of other characters instead of Ciri, whose ethnicity is a relevant plot point that ties into many others. Nilfgaard is basically based on Germany and her heritage is tied to that. I think someone else pointed out that it would basically be like making Jon Snow from GoT black, which i think is a pretty good analogy. Furthermore, i disagree with tagging poles as some kind of "white majority" and projecting onto them american baggage so to speak. They are a marginalized country in the middle of europe, they have never gotten something this big that comes this close to being "theirs". Sapkowiskis work is fiction, but it draws heavily of polish and slavic culture, Temerias fate mirrors Polands in many ways, the themes are heavily rooted in polish history and their struggles (except the added fantastical elements of course), hell, even cities such as novigrad are basically based on polish cities (Gdansk), so I its perfectly valid to think that this is the wrong choice for this particular series.

danhz said:

I dont mind what they do tbh, I will not watch it and have the good remember of the games, left netflix a lot ago cuz of their propaganda.

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Calling diversity propaganda?

Budi said:

You don't like them I assume? =D I haven't seen them but would love to, just bit difficult to see them here in Finland. From what I've gathered the series is better?

Edit: Welp. Someone has actually uploaded it to Youtube with subtitles, all the episodes. Would still prefer official release, the video quality is bad too.

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Apparently its pretty common for the dislike of that show. Personally I'm glad they tried you know? In Poland, this series is basically Lord of the Rings-like famous and popular. The person they cast as Geralt has the look one would expect and from skimming through it, they followed the book plots close enough including even the famous parts where Geralt first meets Ciri's parents when Emhyr (AKA, Duny) is cursed into a shapeshifted form. The costume work looks decent and music seems right for the setting.

Pavetta



Duny



Basically your typical Medieval Europe Fantasy casting for the mixture of mythos Witcher combines (Slavic, German, Norwegian, Celtic, etc.), most of which was completely new to me having really never read any Slavic Mythology, at least, before The Witcher. "Vedmak" - proto-slavic for "to know" and old Russian for "knowledge" and "witchcraft" , hence how English readers were given "The Witcher" in translation.

Anyways, as far as this thread goes, regardless the production for the new show are going to cast who they see as the best fit for each character. If the writing and production values are top notch and they give the actors good material to work with, it should be good. I'm crossing my fingers they follow the story beats of the books as close as they can; for example the 'contracts of the week' in The Last Wish and Sword of Destiny interspersed story parts that hint at things to come in the Saga part. I kind of was hoping they would cast someone like Mikkelson though for Geralt with an awesome Danish accent.

If anyone has seen the TV show Merlin, the casting for Gwen (played by Angel Couby) was pretty good. Typically Gwen has been a lot whiter actresses in the many different movies and other tv shows about King Arthur.