Switch can handle PS4 and XBO downports better than most expect in my opinion

Hero of Legend · Nov 22, 2017

I've been playing Sonic Forces myself on Switch and it's legit a well done port that still looks very pretty at times, although there are obvious downgrades in places, specifically it being 720p and 30fps docked, and also some lower-res textures in some environments and the avatar item icons (seems unnecessary).

Here's a good comparison (Switch left, PS4 Pro right):

Note I took the Switch screen myself in native 720p docked via Elgato HD60. The PS4 Pro shot is by Digital Foundry. I also snapped a whole bunch more Switch version pics, have a peek.

Another example is of course DOOM, brought to Switch by Panic Button, which funny enough has similar downgrades. Here are the same comparisons by Digital Foundry (though they snapped the Switch screen at 1080p despite it running no higher than 720p), again Switch left and PS4 right:

The point is I think the Switch has legit surprised a lot of us by how much it can retain the look and feel of PS4 and XBO games, albeit at the cost of downgrades. As some would say, you could downgrade a game to run on anything, maybe that's true for most, but I'd think a Wii port of both would look VERY different in comparison. Hell PS3 and 360 versions would also be much bigger downgrades IMO.

The fact that Switch features a modern architecture and support for modern engines and the like certainly helps, as well as being a modern chip and tech making it far easier for devs to develop for, unlike like say Wii U.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

FiXalaS · Nov 22, 2017

It's an exclusive but Mario Odyssey looks incredible too, didn't feel like I was playing a last gen game.

fourfourfun · Nov 22, 2017

I think it has a good shout about what it can do with what it has. The main thing about Switch is tying the hardware with the USP. That can give you so much more than raw power.

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

Just depends on the game and what you do with it.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, based on a WiiU title, looks better than many of my PS4 games on the strength of its art direction running at 1080p 60fps.

DOOM runs at half the frame rate but still looks good (especially if you disable CA), feeling smooth and responsive with motion blur and retaining the vast majority of post-processing effects, and all of the level geometry, character models, AI pathfinding, etc, for a content-complete game.

Games that are built for the Switch from the ground up will fare better, though.

Tagyhag · Nov 22, 2017

Considering what the Switch is, it is an extremely impressive system.

However, I think some the downgrades are too much.

For example, I wouldn't play DOOM at 30fps after playing it at 60 (I wouldn't play at 60 after 144fps either way :P) and we have yet to see how something like Wolfenstein 2 looks and plays like. A game that's much less optimized than DOOM.

Knight613 · Nov 22, 2017

I think it might depend on what you use to play the games on.

Switch games look great on the small screen. They can look good on 1080p TVs too. On 4K TVs though it starts to get pretty noticeable if the game is not 1080p docked.

Stuart · Nov 22, 2017

FiXalaS said:
It's an exclusive but Mario Odyssey looks incredible too, didn't feel like I was playing a last gen game.

I think that's the usual case of superlative art design and a good choice of comprises. Looking at the image quality, it's pretty bad. Nintendo is allergic to anti-aliasing.

Heckler456 · Nov 22, 2017

I think the numbers don't lie. You can make up a lot of lost ground on artstyle and all of that, but technically, the switch is way behind.

Deleted member 24550 · Nov 22, 2017

Well yeah it's a newer gpu architecture, it has all the modern shader techniques for the bells and whistles, it's just less powerful.

But Sonic Forces and DOOM are no Horizon Zero Dawn or Uncharted 4.

pixelpatron · Nov 22, 2017

Dying to see what Metroid is gonna look like on this thing....boggles the mind!

Deleted member 2254 · Nov 22, 2017

I mean, it's all been said, but keep in mind Switch is barely more powerful than an Xbox 360, so keep them expectations in check. No sense in comparing single screens when resolution, framerate, and many other factors kick in, especially in larger scale situations. I played both versions of Forces and the Switch one holds up well, but no, it does not really compare to the PS4 version. Play the Switch one, move on to the PS4 and it feels like you're playing a smoother and more detailed sequel. There's some very well done games, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is almost shocking for how great it looks, but even a first party game like Odyssey has hiccups, so there's that. This is kinda how some Xbox One games like Forza Horizon 2, Rise Of The Tomb Raider and Titanfall also got released on the Xbox 360 in a downgraded version. Did they look surprisingly good for the hardware? Yes, they did, but it's still no contest. Games like The Witcher 3, Horizon: Zero Dawn or Assassin's Creed: Origins simply can not be done in a satisfying matter on a console like the Switch, therefore the Switch does not hold up to the PS4 and the X1. I love my Switch, but if your argument is that Doom can look somewhat decent at low resolutions and unstable 30fps on it, you haven't really sold the concept.

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

Tagyhag said:
Considering what the Switch is, it is an extremely impressive system.

However, I think some the downgrades are too much.

For example, I wouldn't play DOOM at 30fps after playing it at 60 (I wouldn't play at 60 after 144fps either way :P) and we have yet to see how something like Wolfenstein 2 looks and plays like. A game that's much less optimized than DOOM.

If you have a Switch, I'd recommend renting or borrowing DOOM, despite your misgivings. In practice, it just works. On paper it sounds like it wouldn't, given the numbers, but in practice it still feels and plays undeniably like DOOM. Pretty much everyone that's played it (Digital Foundry included) were impressed how well it nails the game's overall look and feel, even with the changes. And it's amazing to have this instantly available, anywhere anytime, on a handheld.

Jiro · Nov 22, 2017

Even though it is weaker than Xbox One, it is quite impressive.

sebco · Nov 22, 2017

Breath of the Wild also looks great. Like others have said a lot of it has to do with art style. Very cool that DOOM is on Switch and looks pretty good.

Calm Waterfall · Nov 22, 2017

Switch is no where near as powerful and no it can't hold its own against the PSX4 or Xboxone. Look at games like Horizon, it's like a generational leap if you compare it to any Switch title. Same with battlefront, uncharted, gears, god of war etc....

famousmortimer · Nov 22, 2017

I feel like im drinking crazy juice reading this.

The Switch is awesome, the art style of Nintendo games is amazing, the graphic quality between the Switch and the xbox1/PS4 is pretty goddamn huge.

Deleted member 426 · Nov 22, 2017

I still don't feel there is a massive difference between last gen and this gen, with the exception of Sony 1st party. So yeah Switch holds its own.

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

I think the OP is describing the overall effect, which I'd agree is starting to experience some diminishing returns moving from one gen to the next. Sure, there's a staggering difference if you examine the density of details or the clarity of image quality under a microscope. But the overall effect is just sort of like... they both look good.

Skies · Nov 22, 2017

Knight613 said:
I think it might depend on what you use to play the games on.

Switch games look great on the small screen. They can look good on 1080p TVs too. On 4K TVs though it starts to get pretty noticeable if the game is not 1080p docked.

Agreed.

Odyssey looks great undocked, but docked at 900p (or sometimes lower) doesn't fair as well on my 4k 65 inch screen.

Jon Carter · Nov 22, 2017

DOOM in docked mode especially gave me that feeling. So much of it is intact that some lower-resolution textures and simpler geometry doesn't end up mattering much. The look and the core are intact. It holds up well, I think.

Hero of Legend · Nov 22, 2017

Perhaps I meant to say in terms of downports as the two games show? I dunno, it's still impressive Sega and Bethesda got the two as they were on Switch.

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

Jon Carter said:
DOOM in docked mode especially gave me that feeling. So much of it is intact that some lower-resolution textures and simpler geometry doesn't end up mattering much. The look and the core are intact. It holds up well, I think.

Yep, DOOM on Switch looks and feels pretty much like I remember the PS4 version looking and feeling. I know the technical differences, but when I'm playing I don't notice and I don't care.

Stuart · Nov 22, 2017

Jack Orion said:
I still don't feel there is a massive difference between last gen and this gen, with the exception of Sony 1st party. So yeah Switch holds its own.

I agree regarding raw graphical power, though there were loads of games with a brown/bloom artstyle which now look terrible. Also anti-aliasing is a big improvement this generation.

Cudpug · Nov 22, 2017

I try not to think about the Switch in relation to the PS4 or Xbox One because it seems like an unfair comparison, considering their size etc. What I do find really impressive and what keeps the Switch feeling modern to me is comparing it to the 3DS, which is Nintendo's other portable running simultaneously (at least for now) with the Switch. That you can jump from cartridge games like the 3DS's software to something like Odyssey or Breath of the Wild on a tiny cart is amazing to me. What a technological leap!

Aprikurt · Nov 22, 2017

It doesn't need to, it's its own thing completely.

Al3x1s · Nov 22, 2017

I don't think it holds up at all in docked mode (well, to hold up you compare the demanding games, it obviously has no problem for 2D titles or other low end games which can be super fantastic to play too) but it's pretty cool as a handheld and I really really want one, although I wish more developers aimed for new games in native resolution (with exceptions if thanks to the techniques used and good AA it looks nice enough) and 60fps for action games or solid 30 for others rather than port things the Switch can't really do and resort to blurry and/or aliased visuals full of shimmering and sub par performance on top of that. Even though it doesn't qualify in some of these ways I was impressed by the Doom port until I read about the severe performance issues in the harder difficulty modes which have additional enemies and what not. Screenshots like yours don't show the full difference because one, they're screenshots so the frame rate isn't there, and two, they are shown in their native size if you don't zoom in rather than as they look when blown up on a display with higher than the native resolution. Unless you play it on an 720p display, maybe that's a good idea although I don't know how it handles that either, maybe text and things become too small if the game expects 1080p (even if it's upscaled to that).

DireRaven · Nov 22, 2017

It can hold its own, and in many cases punch above it's weight, and as many have pointed out, it's not going to have games like Horizons, or Gears on it (with the amount of visual flair that those games use), but it doesn't have to. It offers a lot for very little, and although it's considered to be a hybrid, I suspect many of it's sales are due to it's portability, effectively making it 3DS/Vita 2.0, and having games that are almost PS4 / XB1 in quality in a mobile device can never be overlooked, regardless of the downgrades to get them to run.

My only serious gripe with the system is storage. Nintendo should have had at least 128gb of internal storage on it (imho) as that 32gb can get eaten up pretty quickly.

nogoodnamesleft · Nov 22, 2017

Next we will get the "you know what, I think I prefer the lower resolution and lower frame rate of switch versions of PS4 and Xbox games because they just feel right" thread.

MatrixMan.exe · Nov 22, 2017

Depends on the game. A game like Sonic Forces doesn't look like it pushes the hardware much at all, but then on the other hand while the Switch has a competent DOOM port, it pales in comparison to what is available on PS4/Xbox One in terms of performance and effects. Switch games, exclusives especially look great, but purely on a technical level they don't come close to something like Horizon, God of War or Quantum Break. Again, talking purely technical here as art is subjective is what makes Nintendo's first party stuff especially look as good as what we have on Xbox One and PS4 in some cases.

That's not really a problem though. We know how powerful the Switch is. It doesn't need to "hold it's own" against anything.

TheMisterManGuy · Nov 22, 2017

Unlike past Nintendo consoles, I don't feel there's that much that can't be ported over to the Switch, save for the obvious "too-intense-for-tablet-hardware" games. Most games these days are developed on flexible, easy to use and easy scale engines. So down-scaling for the comparatively under-powered Switch is much easier this time, especially since the Switch has all the modern middle-ware support you need out of the box.

Deleted member 12833 · Nov 22, 2017

No, graphically switch games look very much last gen.

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

It's beginning to feel like a close approximation of a PS4 or X1, but in the palm of your hands.

Like, it's amazing it's even possible for it to be close when it's this tiny lil' slab.

It feels so good being able to boot up and play it anywhere.

Deleted member 4359 · Nov 22, 2017

TheMisterManGuy said:
Unlike past Nintendo consoles, I don't feel there's that much that can't be ported over to the Switch, save for the obvious "too-intense-for-tablet-hardware" games. Most games these days are developed on flexible, easy to use and easy scale engines. So down-scaling for the comparatively under-powered Switch is much easier this time, especially since the Switch has all the modern middle-ware support you need out of the box.

So just like the Wii U?

It basically missed every single AAA game that was on 360 and PS3 except Watch Dogs

Sonic Forces looks pretty bad anyway, I don't know how you can use it as a barometer anyway. I beat the game on Xbox One, it looks like a 360 game. And it's only 720p, it's a mess technically and the Switch could do more.

Deleted member 2254 · Nov 22, 2017

Neiteio said:
It's beginning to feel like a close approximation of a PS4 or X1, but in the palm of your hands.

Like, it's amazing it's even possible for it to be close when it's this tiny lil' slab.

It feels so good being able to boot up and play it anywhere.

Sure thing, but the only ports we got so far are of fairly limited games that either don't look that good to begin with (Forces) or have some incredibly scalable engine behind them made by the masters of graphics engines, id (Doom). These days I'm exploring an incredibly immersive and insanely beautiful Egypt in Assassin's Creed: Origins with no loading times, where I can see things that are hundreds of meters away, where I can interact with everything and do a billion things. A game like this will not release on the Switch, not in anywhere near the same state as the Xbox One or the PlayStation 4, let alone the X and the Pro. You can only downgrade so much before it completely kills the experience.

erlim · Nov 22, 2017

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees Switch can hold its own against PS4 and XBO. There is a great many people who have completely given up on their ps4 because Switch covers all their videogaming needs.

SABO. · Nov 22, 2017

Im happy with the graphical output of the switch

Neiteio · Nov 22, 2017

FairyEmpire said:
Sure thing, but the only ports we got so far are of fairly limited games that either don't look that good to begin with (Forces) or have some incredibly scalable engine behind them made by the masters of graphics engines, id. These days I'm exploring an incredibly immersive and insanely beautiful Egypt in Assassin's Creed: Origins with no loading times, where I can see things that are hundreds of meters away, where I can interact with everything and do a billion things. A game like this will not release on the Switch, not in anywhere near the same state as the Xbox One or the PlayStation 4, let alone the X and the Pro. You can only downgrade so much before it completely kills the experience.

You have a point on certain limitations like draw distance, but you can have a similar level of interactivity, etc, if you build for it from the ground up. It's true it's tough to port an existing PS4/X1 game to Switch without compromises, but I'm endlessly impressed by how robust and mechanics- and systems-rich games can be when made for Switch.

Even BotW, originally made for WiiU, has a materials logic engine and physics engine consistent across the game world that allows for countless amazing interactions and a billion doable things.

Alexander DeLarge · Nov 22, 2017

Great art styles really help with the Switch's shortcomings in hardware. Just don't expect a ton of open world games. Playstation and Xbox consoles already struggle with open world simulation and the Tegra is leagues behind both.

silva1991 · Nov 22, 2017

It holds it's own as much as 360 holds it's own against Xbox One and PS4

Nothing revolutionary about good and well made ports to weaker systems

Its good that Bethesda are trying their best with their games. Wonder how Wolfy 2 will look

FiXalaS said:
It's an exclusive but Mario Odyssey looks incredible too, didn't feel like I was playing a last gen game.

Depends on the kingdom/area.

Some locations and areas scream "HARDWARE LIMITATIONS"

Other locations try to hide that with art direction(and succeed at doing that)

Stillmatic · Nov 22, 2017

Visually I don't think it does at all. The difference is not subtle. That said, the games look good when you consider what they're running on.

Jon Carter · Nov 22, 2017

silva1991 said:
It holds it's own as much as 360 holds it's own against Xbox One and PS4

Nothing revolutionary about good and well made ports to weaker systems

Its good that Bethesda are trying their best with their games. Wonder how Wolfy 2 will look

Depends on the kingdom/area.

Some locations and areas scream "HARDWARE LIMITATIONS"

Other locations try to hide that with art direction(and succeed at doing that)

It holds its own better than the 360, we already have examples of that—NBA 2K18 and Skyrim.

catboy · Nov 22, 2017

The fact that a 1080p~60 PS4 title came over at <720p<30 and "lower than low" settings says it, in fact, cannot hold its own against any PS4/XB1.

The switch is an amazing little machine with a great library but understandably portable, affordably priced hardware is not going to be able to touch $399 (at launch) home consoles.

Stuart · Nov 22, 2017

erlim said:
There is a great many people who have completely given up on their ps4 because Switch covers all their videogaming needs.

I think that's a slight exaggeration - the two systems compliment each other, but you can't drop the PS4 unless you have no interest in lots of AAA games which will never get a Switch port.

Nav · Nov 22, 2017

I agree that it holds its own against PS4 and Xbox One, but it lost some functionality to get there. Unfortunately it doesn't hold up so well against Wii U and 3DS, in terms of graphical features. The Switch so far hasn't been rendering two screens at once, like both the Wii U and 3DS. It also lacks super-stable 3D.

/s

But for real I miss 3D though.

LightKiosk · Nov 22, 2017

Now factor in the games that publishers simply refuse to transfer over because the lack of hardware equivalent to a PS4 or XB1.

I completely get that the Switch is impressive for its size, and the portability comes in handy for many uses. But I have to disagree with you when you say it can hold its own.

For example, they got Rocket League at 60FPS on the Switch, but at the cost of 720p and visual downgrades. That doesn't seem like holding its own to me.

silva1991 · Nov 22, 2017

Jon Carter said:
It holds its own better than the 360, we already have examples of that—NBA 2k18 and Skyrim.

I know switch is stronger than last gen systems, but my point was that all can get all made ports from the stronger systems of this gen and switch doesn't stand out in that regard.

Deleted member 2254 · Nov 22, 2017

Neiteio said:
You have a point on certain limitations like draw distance, but you can have a similar level of interactivity, etc, if you build for it from the ground up. It's true it's tough to port an existing PS4/X1 game to Switch without compromises, but I'm endlessly impressed by how robust and mechanics- and systems-rich games made for Switch can be.

Even BotW, originally made for WiiU, has a materials logic engine and physics engine consistent across the game world that allows for countless amazing interactions and a billion doable things.

In some games, hardware allows for incredible levels of immersion. You can't have dozens of AI characters doing fairly complex things with decent graphics and interactivity without completely butchering the draw distance and other aspects. In Origins you can use the bushes to hide, climb onto almost every building, rock, tree. You can't simply dumb that down like that. Making an open world immersive game with the Switch in mind is one thing, but even something like, say Battlefield 1 would be impossible. You can tone down the graphics as much as you like, but you still have to handle largely destructible miles-wide maps with 64 players. I don't think the Switch's CPU can handle that, even if you use stickmen instead of full-blown 3D characters. There are things the Switch isn't capable of doing. That is fine, I didn't buy the Switch to blow me away with immersive graphics in 4K, that's what my Xbox One X is for. But pretending that the Switch holds up with the other consoles is just false hope. Just because Doom doesn't look that bad overall and a port of a last-gen game (Skyrim) looks good doesn't mean that we'll see big games like Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, etc. without serious compromises, if at all.

Now, Overwatch is something that could do well due to its cartoony style.

carlsojo · Nov 22, 2017

Switch games look pretty good, I don't think anyone's denying that. But I'd still say the vast majority of PS4/X1 games look clearly a generation ahead.

TheMisterManGuy · Nov 22, 2017

chronic_archaic said:
So just like the Wii U?

It basically missed every single AAA game that was on 360 and PS3 except Watch Dogs

Not even close. The Wii U was an overly designed mess that relied on an outdated architecture incompatible with many of today's engines and middle-ware. Porting games to that thing was a pain in the ass. The Switch is a much better designed, more modern, and easier to develop for console with support for nearly every modern engine and API under the sun, which makes things easier for developers. Obviously, it's still not as powerful as the Xbox One, but it's powerful enough that most games can be ported over easily with enough modifications.

Not to mention the Switch is already way more popular than the Wii U ever was, so there's that to consider as well.

Servbot24 · Nov 22, 2017

Switch games look as good as they need to look. I mean who really care if Mario Odyssey looks any better than it already is, right?

But saying that Switch can stand in an arena with PS4 or XB1 is just objectively wrong. Switch will never be able to produce anything even remotely close to Uncharted 4, Horizon, the Last of Us 2, God of War, etc. It doesn't need to, but let's not try to pretend it competes in areas it's not even attempting to compete in.

Switch can handle PS4 and XBO downports better than most expect in my opinion

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